From rnordier at nordier.com  Fri Oct  5 03:51:05 2007
From: rnordier at nordier.com (Robert Nordier)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:51:05 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
Message-ID: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>

A new port of UNIX Version 7 to the x86 (IA-32) based PC is now
available.  The port, called V7/x86, was originally done around
1999: "as something to do with the UNIX source code", when the $100
source licences first became available.  Over the last year or so,
I've been working intermittently at preparing it for release.

In classic porting style, the port includes a 16- and 32-bit
UNIX-style x86 assembler written from scratch, though the next step
of conjuring pcc to emit 32-bit x86 code was not done.  Originally,
the system used the TenDRA C compiler, but TenDRA is huge and this
was never a good match.  (Without demand paging, and with restrictions
on the size of the buffer cache, there is a definite limit to how
big you want much-used binaries to be.)  However, since the Amsterdam
Compiler Kit was released as open source, the ACK K&R compiler,
with a backend revised to speak "as" rather than "ACK assembler",
works very well.

V7/x86 currently supports ATA (IDE) hard drives, ATAPI CD drives,
a 1.44M floppy drive, and standard serial ports, in addition to the
usual PC screen and keyboard.  For easier installation and setup,
supplied utilities allow access to CD (ISO 9660) and FAT (MS-DOS)
filesystems.  Boot code uses the PC BIOS.  At present, there is no
SCSI support.

Overall, the system is stable and quite generally usable.  For
instance, it is an easy-ish task to build the V7/x86 distribution
on V7 itself, including packaging it as a small CDROM image.  When
using the C shell, together with contemporary versions of vi and
more, one even tends to forget this is V7.  (Given the absence of
X and TCP/IP, the overall "feel" of the system is something like
an early SCO System V release: though possibly not so unreliable.)

The port was originally done more for the sheer pleasure of getting
to grips with the V7 source code than for any good reason.  But
I've since spent a bit of effort trying to put together a fairly
usable release -- though there will be plenty of rough edges -- in
the hope that, for instance, some school or college might eventually
take the thing up as a vehicle for students to get practical
experience on.  After all, it really is possible to write (say) a
device driver from scratch and get it working in the course of only
one or two evenings.  Of course, the PDP-11 original can be (and I
hope still is) used for that purpose, but presumably PC architecture,
and devices, and assembly language, would all be part of a modern
curriculum, anyway, leaving fewer layers of obscurity for the
student.

Anyway, if any of you would like to take a look at the thing (even
if only to point out some of the more egregious of the remaining
errors) the link is

	http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/

Apart from actually installing the system on some suitable PC, it
is also possible to boot from the CDROM or floppy image and then
simply quit out of the install utility to the shell prompt.
Alternatively, the system can be fairly readily run under Bochs or
some other emulator, using the available "demo" image.

There is a short user-oriented introductory document, with examples,
here

	http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/doc/v7x86intro.pdf

What is presently lacking is a document containing a more technical
description of the port, but I hope this will be available before
too long.

As far as the web pages are concerned, these were originally set
up before the 10 August 2007 Judge Kimball ruling in favour of
Novell.  No changes have been made (to copyright notices, licence
information, etc.) in the light of that ruling, though of course I
will willingly make changes if and when I know what they should be.

Incidentally, there's been mention, here, in the past, of one or
two projects to port V7 or 32V to the PC.  For all I know, these
may still be ongoing: V7/x86 is an unrelated effort.

--
Robert Nordier

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Nordier & Associates       rnordier at nordier.com   Telephone: +27 31 261-4895
PO Box 11266, Marine Parade, 4056, South Africa   Mobile   : +27 72 265-2390
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Fri Oct  5 04:10:17 2007
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 20:10:17 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
References: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
Message-ID: <20071004201017.6fc311a6@SirToby.dinner41.local>

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:51:05 +0200
Robert Nordier <rnordier at nordier.com> wrote:

> In classic porting style, the port includes a 16- and 32-bit
> UNIX-style x86 assembler written from scratch, though the next step
> of conjuring pcc to emit 32-bit x86 code was not done.
There is a x86 pcc:
ftp://226.net120.skekraft.net/pcc/
This was imported into NetBSD a few days ago. You can compile most of
NetBSD with this in-tree pcc now.

> Alternatively, the system can be fairly readily run under Bochs or
> some other emulator, using the available "demo" image.
What about Xen DomU support? ;-)
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/



From patv at monmouth.com  Fri Oct  5 09:01:28 2007
From: patv at monmouth.com (Pat Villani)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:01:28 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <20071004201017.6fc311a6@SirToby.dinner41.local>
References: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
	<20071004201017.6fc311a6@SirToby.dinner41.local>
Message-ID: <470570C8.2040704@monmouth.com>

Well, it looks like this was released before I had a chance to finish my 
32v port, not that I was working very hard on it.  I have a boot and 
memory disk driver working, but haven't started the real device drivers 
working yet.

For what it's worth, I started the project with a port of the ACK 
compiler.  It may be useful.  You can find it at 
ftp://opensourcedepot.com/minix/cross/minix-cross-0.1.tar.gz.  There 
also some of my early work at ftp://opensourcedepot.com/32V.

I did get a chance to play with v7/x86 in Bochs.  Looks pretty good.  
Any plans for the future?

Pat


Jochen Kunz wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Oct 2007 19:51:05 +0200
> Robert Nordier <rnordier at nordier.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> In classic porting style, the port includes a 16- and 32-bit
>> UNIX-style x86 assembler written from scratch, though the next step
>> of conjuring pcc to emit 32-bit x86 code was not done.
>>     
> There is a x86 pcc:
> ftp://226.net120.skekraft.net/pcc/
> This was imported into NetBSD a few days ago. You can compile most of
> NetBSD with this in-tree pcc now.
>
>   
>> Alternatively, the system can be fairly readily run under Bochs or
>> some other emulator, using the available "demo" image.
>>     
> What about Xen DomU support? ;-)
>   




From madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com  Fri Oct  5 04:44:27 2007
From: madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com (Michael Kerpan)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:44:27 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
References: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
Message-ID: <8dd2d95c0710041144o5f97d48esd0b27b6439b158d3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/4/07, Robert Nordier <rnordier at nordier.com> wrote:
> A new port of UNIX Version 7 to the x86 (IA-32) based PC is now
> available.  The port, called V7/x86, was originally done around
> 1999: "as something to do with the UNIX source code", when the $100
> source licences first became available.  Over the last year or so,
> I've been working intermittently at preparing it for release.
>
> In classic porting style, the port includes a 16- and 32-bit
> UNIX-style x86 assembler written from scratch, though the next step
> of conjuring pcc to emit 32-bit x86 code was not done.  Originally,
> the system used the TenDRA C compiler, but TenDRA is huge and this
> was never a good match.  (Without demand paging, and with restrictions
> on the size of the buffer cache, there is a definite limit to how
> big you want much-used binaries to be.)  However, since the Amsterdam
> Compiler Kit was released as open source, the ACK K&R compiler,
> with a backend revised to speak "as" rather than "ACK assembler",
> works very well.
>
> V7/x86 currently supports ATA (IDE) hard drives, ATAPI CD drives,
> a 1.44M floppy drive, and standard serial ports, in addition to the
> usual PC screen and keyboard.  For easier installation and setup,
> supplied utilities allow access to CD (ISO 9660) and FAT (MS-DOS)
> filesystems.  Boot code uses the PC BIOS.  At present, there is no
> SCSI support.
>
> Overall, the system is stable and quite generally usable.  For
> instance, it is an easy-ish task to build the V7/x86 distribution
> on V7 itself, including packaging it as a small CDROM image.  When
> using the C shell, together with contemporary versions of vi and
> more, one even tends to forget this is V7.  (Given the absence of
> X and TCP/IP, the overall "feel" of the system is something like
> an early SCO System V release: though possibly not so unreliable.)
>
> The port was originally done more for the sheer pleasure of getting
> to grips with the V7 source code than for any good reason.  But
> I've since spent a bit of effort trying to put together a fairly
> usable release -- though there will be plenty of rough edges -- in
> the hope that, for instance, some school or college might eventually
> take the thing up as a vehicle for students to get practical
> experience on.  After all, it really is possible to write (say) a
> device driver from scratch and get it working in the course of only
> one or two evenings.  Of course, the PDP-11 original can be (and I
> hope still is) used for that purpose, but presumably PC architecture,
> and devices, and assembly language, would all be part of a modern
> curriculum, anyway, leaving fewer layers of obscurity for the
> student.
>
> Anyway, if any of you would like to take a look at the thing (even
> if only to point out some of the more egregious of the remaining
> errors) the link is
>
>         http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/
>
> Apart from actually installing the system on some suitable PC, it
> is also possible to boot from the CDROM or floppy image and then
> simply quit out of the install utility to the shell prompt.
> Alternatively, the system can be fairly readily run under Bochs or
> some other emulator, using the available "demo" image.
>
> There is a short user-oriented introductory document, with examples,
> here
>
>         http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/doc/v7x86intro.pdf
>
> What is presently lacking is a document containing a more technical
> description of the port, but I hope this will be available before
> too long.
>
> As far as the web pages are concerned, these were originally set
> up before the 10 August 2007 Judge Kimball ruling in favour of
> Novell.  No changes have been made (to copyright notices, licence
> information, etc.) in the light of that ruling, though of course I
> will willingly make changes if and when I know what they should be.
>
> Incidentally, there's been mention, here, in the past, of one or
> two projects to port V7 or 32V to the PC.  For all I know, these
> may still be ongoing: V7/x86 is an unrelated effort.
>
> --
> Robert Nordier
>
> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> Nordier & Associates       rnordier at nordier.com   Telephone: +27 31 261-4895
> PO Box 11266, Marine Parade, 4056, South Africa   Mobile   : +27 72 265-2390
> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>

Awesome work. I notice that you require at least a 486 to run this
though. Is there any technical reason, or could this be moved to a 386
by means of a simple recompile? Also, how 32-bit IS the port? Would it
be hard to build a 286 version or even 8086/8088 version to give a
real OS to the old XT/AT in the basement?


From lm at bitmover.com  Fri Oct  5 13:33:18 2007
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 20:33:18 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1191549601.63992.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <mailman.3.1191549601.63992.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>

> Awesome work. I notice that you require at least a 486 to run this
> though. Is there any technical reason, or could this be moved to a 386
> by means of a simple recompile? Also, how 32-bit IS the port? Would it
> be hard to build a 286 version or even 8086/8088 version to give a
> real OS to the old XT/AT in the basement?

No offense intended, but why waste time on 386 (or even way more time on
286)?  I can't imagine that anyone has any of those machines anymore.
And if anyone is so broke that they do and can't afford a newer machine
I have piles of celeron boxes looking for a home.  300-500mhz with 64-128M
and probably a broken disk but maybe it works.  You pay shipping and they
are yours.  If you are doing interesting work and you are really broke
I'll pay shipping.

But 286?  Come on.  Let it go, it sucked.  I can almost see the point of
386 except that nobody has one.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com


From cowan at ccil.org  Fri Oct  5 13:48:29 2007
From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan)
Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 23:48:29 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>
References: <mailman.3.1191549601.63992.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <20071005034829.GH27520@mercury.ccil.org>

Larry McVoy scripsit:

> No offense intended, but why waste time on 386 (or even way more time on
> 286)?  

Why waste time watching football on television?

(This is a stock answer to the question "Why waste time on artificial
languages?")

-- 
John Cowan   <cowan at ccil.org>   http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
One time I called in to the central system and started working on a big
thick 'sed' and 'awk' heavy duty data bashing script.  One of the geologists
came by, looked over my shoulder and said 'Oh, that happens to me too.
Try hanging up and phoning in again.'  --Beverly Erlebacher


From lyricalnanoha at dosius.ath.cx  Fri Oct  5 14:07:23 2007
From: lyricalnanoha at dosius.ath.cx (lyricalnanoha)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 00:07:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>
References: <mailman.3.1191549601.63992.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0710050005210.30877@andisteele.dosius.ath.cx>



On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Larry McVoy wrote:

> No offense intended, but why waste time on 386 (or even way more time on
> 286)?  I can't imagine that anyone has any of those machines anymore.

I've got an Apple //e (65SC02, 1 MHz, 128K RAM).

> And if anyone is so broke that they do and can't afford a newer machine
> I have piles of celeron boxes looking for a home.  300-500mhz with 64-128M
> and probably a broken disk but maybe it works.  You pay shipping and they
> are yours.  If you are doing interesting work and you are really broke
> I'll pay shipping.

How much? If you've still got a bunch, I might look into it when my next 
check comes in. I could use a spare box to throw BSD on for 
experimentation :P

> But 286?  Come on.  Let it go, it sucked.  I can almost see the point of
> 386 except that nobody has one.

I did a lot of my development work on a 386/25 (upgraded from a 286) but 
that was 7 years ago.

-uso.


From tuhs at cuzuco.com  Fri Oct  5 14:28:28 2007
From: tuhs at cuzuco.com (tuhs at cuzuco.com)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 00:28:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
Message-ID: <200710050428.l954SSiq007732@cuzuco.com>


> From: "Michael Kerpan" <madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2007 14:44:27 -0400
>
> Awesome work. I notice that you require at least a 486 to run this
> though. Is there any technical reason, or could this be moved to a 386
> by means of a simple recompile? Also, how 32-bit IS the port? Would it
> be hard to build a 286 version or even 8086/8088 version to give a
> real OS to the old XT/AT in the basement?

8086 lacks the required protected mode. don't remember how xenix over
came this problem when it was first released. no one even has to think
about this problem today


From wkt at tuhs.org  Fri Oct  5 14:30:03 2007
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 14:30:03 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0710050005210.30877@andisteele.dosius.ath.cx>
References: <mailman.3.1191549601.63992.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0710050005210.30877@andisteele.dosius.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <20071005043003.GA69141@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:07:23AM -0400, lyricalnanoha wrote:
> > No offense intended, but why waste time on 386 (or even way more time on
> > 286)?  I can't imagine that anyone has any of those machines anymore.
> 
> I've got an Apple //e (65SC02, 1 MHz, 128K RAM).

I did a sort-of port of Xinu to the Apple ][+ way back when:

		ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/apple2/apple2xinu.tar.gz

I know this isn't Unix-related, but I couldn't resist :-)

Cheers,
	Warren


From andreww at datanet.ab.ca  Fri Oct  5 14:32:28 2007
From: andreww at datanet.ab.ca (Andrew Warkentin)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:32:28 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <20071005043003.GA69141@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <mailman.3.1191549601.63992.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>	<20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0710050005210.30877@andisteele.dosius.ath.cx>
	<20071005043003.GA69141@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <4705BE5C.7010104@datanet.ab.ca>

Warren Toomey wrote:

>On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:07:23AM -0400, lyricalnanoha wrote:
>  
>
>>>No offense intended, but why waste time on 386 (or even way more time on
>>>286)?  I can't imagine that anyone has any of those machines anymore.
>>>      
>>>
>>I've got an Apple //e (65SC02, 1 MHz, 128K RAM).
>>    
>>
>
>I did a sort-of port of Xinu to the Apple ][+ way back when:
>
>		ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/apple2/apple2xinu.tar.gz
>
>I know this isn't Unix-related, but I couldn't resist :-)
>
>Cheers,
>	Warren
>_______________________________________________
>TUHS mailing list
>TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>
>  
>
I downloaded that a while ago, but wasn't sure how to run it. Will it 
run in an emulator?


From cowan at ccil.org  Fri Oct  5 14:44:48 2007
From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 00:44:48 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <200710050428.l954SSiq007732@cuzuco.com>
References: <200710050428.l954SSiq007732@cuzuco.com>
Message-ID: <20071005044448.GK27520@mercury.ccil.org>

tuhs at cuzuco.com scripsit:

> 8086 lacks the required protected mode. don't remember how xenix over
> came this problem when it was first released. no one even has to think
> about this problem today

Coherent also ran on the x86, and is available for download
(its copyright status is uncertain); chase links from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherent_(operating_system) .

-- 
We pledge allegiance to the penguin             John Cowan
and to the intellectual property regime         cowan at ccil.org
for which he stands, one world under            http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
Linux, with free music and open source
software for all.               --Julian Dibbell on Brazil, edited


From imp at bsdimp.com  Fri Oct  5 15:11:14 2007
From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:11:14 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <20071005044448.GK27520@mercury.ccil.org>
References: <200710050428.l954SSiq007732@cuzuco.com>
	<20071005044448.GK27520@mercury.ccil.org>
Message-ID: <20071004.231114.-1543904522.imp@bsdimp.com>

In message: <20071005044448.GK27520 at mercury.ccil.org>
            John Cowan <cowan at ccil.org> writes:
: tuhs at cuzuco.com scripsit:
: 
: > 8086 lacks the required protected mode. don't remember how xenix over
: > came this problem when it was first released. no one even has to think
: > about this problem today
: 
: Coherent also ran on the x86, and is available for download
: (its copyright status is uncertain); chase links from
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherent_(operating_system) .

Coherent was a v6 port.  There was a Dec Rainbow port as well, but
nobody seems to have a copy of that anymore.  The only copies I've
been able to find are for either the 286 or 8086.  The 286 version was
a v7 port, iirc.

Warner


From MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net  Fri Oct  5 15:10:38 2007
From: MichaelDavidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson)
Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2007 22:10:38 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <200710050428.l954SSiq007732@cuzuco.com>
References: <200710050428.l954SSiq007732@cuzuco.com>
Message-ID: <4705C74E.7040509@pacbell.net>

tuhs at cuzuco.com wrote:
> 8086 lacks the required protected mode. don't remember how xenix over
> came this problem when it was first released. no one even has to think
> about this problem today
>   
Xenix for the 8086 only supported "small model" user programs of up to 
64k text + 64k data
and used the segment registers to point to the appropriate text and data 
segments in physical
memory. User programs were not supposed to ever look at or change the 
contents of their
segment registers - if they did then chaos was likely to ensue.

And, of course, there was no protection so a rogue process could access 
all of physical
memory including the memory used by the kernel.

It's quite amazing that it worked as well as it did.

md


From andreww at datanet.ab.ca  Fri Oct  5 16:11:28 2007
From: andreww at datanet.ab.ca (Andrew Warkentin)
Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2007 00:11:28 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <20071004.231114.-1543904522.imp@bsdimp.com>
References: <200710050428.l954SSiq007732@cuzuco.com>	<20071005044448.GK27520@mercury.ccil.org>
	<20071004.231114.-1543904522.imp@bsdimp.com>
Message-ID: <4705D590.5040006@datanet.ab.ca>

M. Warner Losh wrote:

>Coherent was a v6 port.  There was a Dec Rainbow port as well, but
>nobody seems to have a copy of that anymore.  The only copies I've
>been able to find are for either the 286 or 8086.  The 286 version was
>a v7 port, iirc.
>  
>
Coherent wasn't a port of Research Unix. It was written from scratch.


From lyricalnanoha at dosius.ath.cx  Fri Oct  5 22:24:17 2007
From: lyricalnanoha at dosius.ath.cx (lyricalnanoha)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 08:24:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 42, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <4705BE5C.7010104@datanet.ab.ca>
References: <mailman.3.1191549601.63992.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<20071005033318.GC5680@bitmover.com>
	<alpine.DEB.0.99.0710050005210.30877@andisteele.dosius.ath.cx>
	<20071005043003.GA69141@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<4705BE5C.7010104@datanet.ab.ca>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.0.99.0710050821090.11075@andisteele.dosius.ath.cx>

On Thu, 4 Oct 2007, Andrew Warkentin wrote:

> Warren Toomey wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Oct 05, 2007 at 12:07:23AM -0400, lyricalnanoha wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> No offense intended, but why waste time on 386 (or even way more time on
>>>> 286)?  I can't imagine that anyone has any of those machines anymore.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I've got an Apple //e (65SC02, 1 MHz, 128K RAM).
>>
>> I did a sort-of port of Xinu to the Apple ][+ way back when:
>>
>> 		ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/apple2/apple2xinu.tar.gz
>>
>> I know this isn't Unix-related, but I couldn't resist :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> 	Warren
> I downloaded that a while ago, but wasn't sure how to run it. Will it
> run in an emulator?

I couldn't get it to work in ApplePC or Dapple.  When I type -xinu it 
beeps, says "ERR" and returns to BASIC.

And there's something weird about STARTUP that sets TRACE on o.o; maybe 
it's the hacked ProDOS?

-uso.


From rnordier at nordier.com  Sat Oct  6 05:23:25 2007
From: rnordier at nordier.com (Robert Nordier)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 21:23:25 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <470570C8.2040704@monmouth.com>
References: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
	<20071004201017.6fc311a6@SirToby.dinner41.local>
	<470570C8.2040704@monmouth.com>
Message-ID: <20071005192325.GC670@nordier.com>

On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 07:01:28PM -0400, Pat Villani wrote:

> For what it's worth, I started the project with a port of the ACK 
> compiler.  It may be useful.  You can find it at 
> ftp://opensourcedepot.com/minix/cross/minix-cross-0.1.tar.gz.  There 
> also some of my early work at ftp://opensourcedepot.com/32V.

I'll take a look.

> I did get a chance to play with v7/x86 in Bochs.  Looks pretty good.  
> Any plans for the future?

Document a bit more and then move on, I suppose. :)

-- 
Robert Nordier


From rnordier at nordier.com  Sat Oct  6 05:05:48 2007
From: rnordier at nordier.com (Robert Nordier)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 21:05:48 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <8dd2d95c0710041144o5f97d48esd0b27b6439b158d3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
	<8dd2d95c0710041144o5f97d48esd0b27b6439b158d3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071005190547.GA670@nordier.com>

On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 02:44:27PM -0400, Michael Kerpan wrote:

> Awesome work. I notice that you require at least a 486 to run this
> though. Is there any technical reason, or could this be moved to a 386
> by means of a simple recompile? Also, how 32-bit IS the port? Would it
> be hard to build a 286 version or even 8086/8088 version to give a
> real OS to the old XT/AT in the basement?

Thanks.  Provided you had a 387 as well, a 386 should be OK.  The
486 has some useful cache instructions like "invd" and "invlpg",
but it was the lack of builtin floating point I was thinking of.

Others have already responded about the 286/8086, so I'll only say
the port IS very 32-bit, and it would be hard to change that.

--
Robert Nordier


From madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com  Sat Oct  6 07:10:45 2007
From: madcrow.maxwell at gmail.com (Michael Kerpan)
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 17:10:45 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] New V7 port available
In-Reply-To: <20071005190547.GA670@nordier.com>
References: <20071004175105.GA48428@nordier.com>
	<8dd2d95c0710041144o5f97d48esd0b27b6439b158d3@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071005190547.GA670@nordier.com>
Message-ID: <8dd2d95c0710051410y5183522cy3fc9fb83f1bfa6e3@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/5/07, Robert Nordier <rnordier at nordier.com> wrote:
> Thanks.  Provided you had a 387 as well, a 386 should be OK.  The
> 486 has some useful cache instructions like "invd" and "invlpg",
> but it was the lack of builtin floating point I was thinking of.
>
> Others have already responded about the 286/8086, so I'll only say
> the port IS very 32-bit, and it would be hard to change that.

I guess it's really more 32V/x86 than V7/X86 then ;)


From neozeed at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 15:33:35 2007
From: neozeed at gmail.com (Jason Stevens)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:33:35 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] mach & nextstep.
Message-ID: <46b366130710082233w4c680ae2r471dbf7db2fcb2c6@mail.gmail.com>

I was wondering with 32v being released, does anyone have all the mach
source?

As you probably know CMU released 3.0, but I was wondering about 1.0 & 2.0.

Additionally does anyone have NeXTSTEP source?  I've read that they did make
it available to universities, I'd just hate to see it die...  Or even old
copies of Darwin, which seem to have dissapeared from Apple (or I'm just
searching wrong)...

Thanks!
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20071009/3e0d241b/attachment.html>

From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Tue Oct  9 20:31:34 2007
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 12:31:34 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] mach & nextstep.
In-Reply-To: <46b366130710082233w4c680ae2r471dbf7db2fcb2c6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46b366130710082233w4c680ae2r471dbf7db2fcb2c6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20071009123134.7fb41bb2@veda.cnb.uam.es>

I *think* I have.

Thank goodness yo mention this! I believe I have copies on CD-ROM dating back
from '94 or so. I'll dig them up. The problem is I believed I also had them on
the FTP server, but they aren't. I must have lost them on one disk crash or
another and didn't notice, so your question is great for I might part of the
original CDs and lose it.

'nuff said. I'll check this afternoon when I go back home and try to find again
those old CDs (cross your fingers).

					j

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:33:35 -0400
"Jason Stevens" <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was wondering with 32v being released, does anyone have all the mach
> source?
> 
> As you probably know CMU released 3.0, but I was wondering about 1.0 & 2.0.
> 
> Additionally does anyone have NeXTSTEP source?  I've read that they did make
> it available to universities, I'd just hate to see it die...  Or even old
> copies of Darwin, which seem to have dissapeared from Apple (or I'm just
> searching wrong)...
> 
> Thanks!


-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20071009/126a9a79/attachment.sig>

From dfawcus at cisco.com  Wed Oct 10 04:23:40 2007
From: dfawcus at cisco.com (Derek Fawcus)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 19:23:40 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] mach & nextstep.
In-Reply-To: <20071009123134.7fb41bb2@veda.cnb.uam.es>;
	from jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es on Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 12:31:34PM
	+0200
References: <46b366130710082233w4c680ae2r471dbf7db2fcb2c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071009123134.7fb41bb2@veda.cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <20071009192340.A7704@mrwint.cisco.com>

> On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:33:35 -0400 "Jason Stevens" <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
> Or even old copies of Darwin, which seem to have dissapeared from Apple (or I'm just
> searching wrong)...

http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/


From neozeed at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 05:06:16 2007
From: neozeed at gmail.com (Jason Stevens)
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 15:06:16 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] mach & nextstep.
In-Reply-To: <20071009192340.A7704@mrwint.cisco.com>
References: <46b366130710082233w4c680ae2r471dbf7db2fcb2c6@mail.gmail.com>
	<20071009123134.7fb41bb2@veda.cnb.uam.es>
	<20071009192340.A7704@mrwint.cisco.com>
Message-ID: <46b366130710091206s3dbf1f42r50dde9204be11736@mail.gmail.com>

Were these versions ever made public?

March 16, 1999 Darwin 0.1 Mac OS X Server 1.0
April 5, 2000 Darwin 1.0
April 13, 2000 Darwin 1.0.2 Mac OS X DP4
 Darwin 1.2.1 Mac OS X public beta





On 10/9/07, Derek Fawcus <dfawcus at cisco.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 01:33:35 -0400 "Jason Stevens" <neozeed at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Or even old copies of Darwin, which seem to have dissapeared from Apple
> (or I'm just
> > searching wrong)...
>
> http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20071009/a40b70f7/attachment.html>

From neozeed at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 08:48:17 2007
From: neozeed at gmail.com (Jason Stevens)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:48:17 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Running RENO on windows via SIMH...
Message-ID: <46b366130710101548m15aac27bycd615e4c41d2f78b@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know if anyone would be interested in this...


http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=204974&package_id=245145

I've hacked up a copy of simh to include slirp (usermode networking from
qemu), and packed up a copy of 4.3RENO.

It should be pretty easy for Windows users to just install & hit the "run
4.3BSD-RENO" icon...

The download is just under 90 megabytes, and I've included nearly 80 pdf's..
Unfortunatly not all of the converted cleanly..

At any rate I'm sure the base install needs more tweaking, and I should load
more software onto the /usr/local drive (which I've made a seperate disk to
allow for easy updating..)

As always feel free to download & give it a test.  At the least it should be
a painfee install & run.

Jason
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20071010/1d1ec65b/attachment.html>

From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Thu Oct 11 23:14:01 2007
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:14:01 +0200
Subject: [TUHS]  mach & nextstep.
Message-ID: <20071011151401.1dff3613@veda.cnb.uam.es>

Bad luck. The CD's are lost (unreadable actually). Not surprising seeing as they
were old and had been tossed around so many times (sic).

Maybe the original request for Mach sources should be redirected to comp.os.mach
or to some of the original authors to see if they still keep something around. 
It might be that even CMU keeps something.

					j

> I *think* I have.
> 
> Thank goodness yo mention this! I believe I have copies on CD-ROM dating back
> from '94 or so. I'll dig them up. The problem is I believed I also had them on
> the FTP server, but they aren't. I must have lost them on one disk crash or
> another and didn't notice, so your question is great for I might part of the
> original CDs and lose it.
> 
> 'nuff said. I'll check this afternoon when I go back home and try to find again
> those old CDs (cross your fingers).

					

-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20071011/3ca2bc5f/attachment.sig>

From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 12:09:10 2007
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 22:09:10 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Running RENO on windows via SIMH...
In-Reply-To: <46b366130710101548m15aac27bycd615e4c41d2f78b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46b366130710101548m15aac27bycd615e4c41d2f78b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18d205ed0710101909o738cd489r7da23629434a0f6e@mail.gmail.com>

On 10/10/07, Jason Stevens <neozeed at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know if anyone would be interested in this...
>
>
> http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=204974&package_id=245145
>
> I've hacked up a copy of simh to include slirp (usermode networking from
> qemu), and packed up a copy of 4.3RENO.
>
> It should be pretty easy for Windows users to just install & hit the "run
> 4.3BSD-RENO" icon...
>
> The download is just under 90 megabytes, and I've included nearly 80 pdf's..
> Unfortunatly not all of the converted cleanly..
>
> At any rate I'm sure the base install needs more tweaking, and I should load
> more software onto the /usr/local drive (which I've made a seperate disk to
> allow for easy updating..)
>
> As always feel free to download & give it a test.  At the least it should be
> a painfee install & run.
>
> Jason
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
>

Hello!
Jason I don't mean to cause rain on your parade here, but we've
practically beaten the idea behind running the 4BSD series via VAX
(emulation) numerous times. And even after regular packet based
networking rather then hardware based (!) was added to the software. I
should say that networking of some sort was added to SIMH. But you get
the idea.

Your ideas are admirable and I believe you've got a good idea here,
but we need time to study it.

Please watch this space.
-- 
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature was once found posting rude
 messages in English in the Moscow subway."


From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Sat Oct 13 20:23:57 2007
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:23:57 +1300
Subject: [TUHS] NeWS, anybody?
Message-ID: <200710132323.58827.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>

groklaw has some details about Yet Another SCO-Group-ism:
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071011205044141
that appears to be about windowing systems.

I'm wondering, would Sun's NeWS be of any value or interest in this situation?  
And if so, does anyone have suitably detailed SDKs, DDKs, whathaveyou, of 
NeWS?  (It would be nice if Sun would release it plus source code to TuHS 
under a suitable license ... but though dreams are free, they don't fill the 
belly ;)

Wesley Parish
-- 
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves.  Things which are 
impossible are equal to each other.  Guerrilla 
warfare means up to their monkey tricks. 
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom 
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.


From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Sat Oct 13 20:34:33 2007
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 23:34:33 +1300
Subject: [TUHS] X Windows System X<11
Message-ID: <200710132334.34012.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>

Is any such creature available?  X11 is >10 years old; apparently the last X10 
release was in 1986.

Does that source code exist anywhere now?  Or has it vanished into the Great 
Bit-Bucket in the Sky?

Thansk

Wesley Parish
-- 
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves.  Things which are 
impossible are equal to each other.  Guerrilla 
warfare means up to their monkey tricks. 
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom 
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Sun Oct 14 05:09:07 2007
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:09:07 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] QNX sources
Message-ID: <20071013210907.3d43ad58@veda.cnb.uam.es>

Good news!

	Yesterday I connected again to QNX.com (as I usually do every two or
three months) to see whether there was any new release when I found out that
it is now released with a "mixed" license, being free for academic and 
non-commercial use, and -here's the interesting bit- it now includes the 
full source code to the operating system (microkernel, real time, SMP support,
etc...) and comes with a perpetual license (for academic, non-commercial use).

	You can download the full sources, recompile and modify it and browse
the subversion repository online. It has some restrictions of course. It's
great as QNX is one of the traditional non-ATT derived UNIX and has been
considered the best Real Time operating system for ages.

	So, while it may not be possible to include the sources in TUHS yet,
at least it might be worth having some links on the TUHS site to Sun's 
Opensolaris and QNX sites so people may know where to get the sources for
them. It may seem 'moot' from a 'heritage' point of view now, but it may
pay off later if some one keeps private copies of these sources for the 
record. Who knows how long will the current trend last?

	And may be we can contact them and ask for permission to include
a copy of the tree on the archive (they leave the door open to that) just
for historical purposes (with all due disclaimers and acknowledgements).

	See
		http://www.qnx.com

				j

-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural


From vasco at icpnet.pl  Sun Oct 14 23:30:13 2007
From: vasco at icpnet.pl (Andrzej Popielewicz)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:30:13 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] X Windows System X<11
In-Reply-To: <200710132334.34012.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
References: <200710132334.34012.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <471219E5.2040005@icpnet.pl>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Wesley Parish pisze:
> Is any such creature available?  X11 is >10 years old; apparently the
last X10
> release was in 1986.
>
> Does that source code exist anywhere now?  Or has it vanished into the
Great
> Bit-Bucket in the Sky?
>
> Thansk
>
> Wesley Parish
I have X10R3 and X10R4 archives.
I have found it somewhere in google some years ago, I do not remember
now where, probably MIT or so. If it is allowed to upload it I can
upload it to TUHS.
But perhaps they are still available .


Andrzej
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFHEhnklCrInTUSZg0RAsH/AJ9k668pTv3eHO3gf+vfk3W8YAN1oQCeJqOL
NxwysCuaRZNR3Vp17/g+54M=
=mZeW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Mon Oct 15 18:53:30 2007
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:53:30 +1300
Subject: [TUHS] X Windows System X<11
In-Reply-To: <471219E5.2040005@icpnet.pl>
References: <200710132334.34012.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
	<471219E5.2040005@icpnet.pl>
Message-ID: <200710152153.31179.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>

On Monday 15 October 2007 02:30, Andrzej Popielewicz wrote:
> Wesley Parish pisze:
> > Is any such creature available?  X11 is >10 years old; apparently the
>
> last X10
>
> > release was in 1986.
> >
> > Does that source code exist anywhere now?  Or has it vanished into the
>
> Great
>
> > Bit-Bucket in the Sky?
> >
> > Thansk
> >
> > Wesley Parish
>
> I have X10R3 and X10R4 archives.
> I have found it somewhere in google some years ago, I do not remember
> now where, probably MIT or so. If it is allowed to upload it I can
> upload it to TUHS.
> But perhaps they are still available .

I've just run through a quite search of X[1 10]R[1 3] and X10R[3 4] seems to 
be the only members of that vintage.  One fragment on google said that that 
was because it was the first example of the code to be released outside of 
MIT.

FWIW

Thanks

Wesley Parish
>
>
> Andrzej

-- 
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves.  Things which are 
impossible are equal to each other.  Guerrilla 
warfare means up to their monkey tricks. 
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom 
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.


From paul at mcjones.org  Tue Oct 16 12:07:00 2007
From: paul at mcjones.org (Paul McJones)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:07:00 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] X Windows System X<11
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1192500000.82175.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <mailman.3.1192500000.82175.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <47141CC4.60008@mcjones.org>

>
>> I have X10R3 and X10R4 archives.
>> I have found it somewhere in google some years ago, I do not remember
>> now where, probably MIT or so. If it is allowed to upload it I can
>> upload it to TUHS.
>> But perhaps they are still available .
>>     
>
> I've just run through a quite search of X[1 10]R[1 3] and X10R[3 4] seems to 
> be the only members of that vintage.  One fragment on google said that that 
> was because it was the first example of the code to be released outside of 
> MIT.
>   


Have you tried contacting Jim Gettys? His home page 
(http://www.handhelds.org/People/jg.html) says: "jg" can be sent mail at 
freedesktop dot org.


Paul



From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Tue Oct 16 13:11:40 2007
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 16:11:40 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject: [TUHS] X Windows System X<11
In-Reply-To: <47141CC4.60008@mcjones.org>
References: <mailman.3.1192500000.82175.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<47141CC4.60008@mcjones.org>
Message-ID: <1192504300.47142bec32ae0@www.paradise.net.nz>

Quoting Paul McJones <paul at mcjones.org>:

> >
> >> I have X10R3 and X10R4 archives.
> >> I have found it somewhere in google some years ago, I do not
> remember
> >> now where, probably MIT or so. If it is allowed to upload it I can
> >> upload it to TUHS.
> >> But perhaps they are still available .
> >> 
> >
> > I've just run through a quite search of X[1 10]R[1 3] and X10R[3 4]
> seems to 
> > be the only members of that vintage. One fragment on google said that
> that 
> > was because it was the first example of the code to be released
> outside of 
> > MIT.
> > 
> 
> 
> Have you tried contacting Jim Gettys? His home page 
> (http://www.handhelds.org/People/jg.html) says: "jg" can be sent mail at
> 
> freedesktop dot org.

thanks

I'll get in touch with him.

wesley Parish
> 
> 
> Paul
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuh s
>  



"Sharpened hands are happy hands.
"Brim the tinfall with mirthful bands" 
- A Deepness in the Sky, Vernor Vinge

"I me.  Shape middled me.  I would come out into hot!" 
I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a symbol of the 
other horizon. - emacs : meta x dissociated-press


From duncangareth at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Oct 16 17:52:56 2007
From: duncangareth at yahoo.co.uk (Duncan Anderson)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:52:56 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] X Windows System X<11
In-Reply-To: <200710132334.34012.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
References: <200710132334.34012.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <200710160952.57096.duncangareth@yahoo.co.uk>

On Saturday 13 October 2007 12:34:33 Wesley Parish wrote:
> Is any such creature available?  X11 is >10 years old; apparently the last
> X10 release was in 1986.
>
> Does that source code exist anywhere now?  Or has it vanished into the
> Great Bit-Bucket in the Sky?
>
> Thansk
>
> Wesley Parish

If you look at http://ftp.x.org/pub/ you will find X10R3 and X10R4 sources. I 
don't know whether earlier versions are available.

cheers
Duncan

	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ 
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine 
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html


From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Thu Oct 18 20:45:06 2007
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 23:45:06 +1300
Subject: [TUHS] Fwd: Re: X Windows preX10R3 releases
Message-ID: <200710182345.07767.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>

I emailed Jim Gettys on ancient X Window System code and this is his reply.  
(I asked him if it was okay to pass this on to the TUHS list, and he said 
yes.)

He's after someone who knows ClearCase, so if there's anyone on this list 
who's knowledgable, or knows someone else who's knowledgeable, feel free to 
get in touch with him.

Thanks

Wesley Parish

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: X Windows preX10R3 releases
Date: Wednesday 17 October 2007 01:53
From: Jim Gettys <jg at laptop dot org>
To: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise dot net dot nz>

Yup.  I have bits back to the very beginning of X, and slightly
before.... I have snapshots of our RCS pool back into 1984 or so;
unfortunately, I did not copy the RCS pool itself which would have every
commit.

I also have copies of the X Consortium backups; in there are ClearCase
databases which the RCS pool was imported into, and may have the commit
by commit history back to the beginning for many files; but it will take
someone with ClearCase expertise to retrieve things from that.

I've been meaning to do something with these for the last couple years,
but have been too busy with OLPC to follow up.
                         Regards,
                                - Jim Gettys

On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 21:19 +1300, Wesley Parish wrote:
> Hi.  I'm a part of TUHS, The (amorphous  ;) Unix Heritage Society, and was
> wondering on the mail list about the X Window System releases prior to
> X11Rx, in relation to a Groklaw article on Yet Another Stupid Lawsuit aimed
> at Red Hat and Novell:
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071011205044141
> referencing some basic aspects of X Window architecture.  I was referred to
> google, and the presence of the X10R[3 4] which apparently were the first
> public release.
>
> I then wondered about the existence of the releases even earlier than
> X10R3, and Paul Jones, formerly of the DEC Systems Research Center, advised
> me to contact you in relation to this.  He also says to say "Hi".
>
> Thanks for any help you can give on this question.
>
> Wesley Parish

--
Jim Gettys
One Laptop Per Child

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves.  Things which are 
impossible are equal to each other.  Guerrilla 
warfare means up to their monkey tricks. 
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom 
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.


From grog at lemis.com  Wed Oct 31 08:36:55 2007
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 09:36:55 +1100
Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs (was:  mach & nextstep.)
In-Reply-To: <20071011151401.1dff3613@veda.cnb.uam.es>
References: <20071011151401.1dff3613@veda.cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <20071030223654.GA72133@dereel.lemis.com>

On Thursday, 11 October 2007 at 15:14:01 +0200, Jose R. Valverde wrote:
>> I *think* I have.
>>
>> Thank goodness yo mention this! I believe I have copies on CD-ROM dating back
>> from '94 or so. I'll dig them up. The problem is I believed I also had them on
>> the FTP server, but they aren't. I must have lost them on one disk crash or
>> another and didn't notice, so your question is great for I might part of the
>> original CDs and lose it.
>>
>> 'nuff said. I'll check this afternoon when I go back home and try to find again
>> those old CDs (cross your fingers).
>
> Bad luck. The CD's are lost (unreadable actually). Not surprising
> seeing as they were old and had been tossed around so many times
> (sic).

Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs?

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 187 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20071031/b18c63b2/attachment.sig>

From aek at bitsavers.org  Wed Oct 31 09:26:14 2007
From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:26:14 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs
In-Reply-To: <20071030223654.GA72133@dereel.lemis.com>
References: <20071011151401.1dff3613@veda.cnb.uam.es>
	<20071030223654.GA72133@dereel.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <4727BD96.6060901@bitsavers.org>

Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:

> Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs?
>

Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives.

I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive.




From asbesto at freaknet.org  Wed Oct 31 19:22:33 2007
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:22:33 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] Recovering flaky CDs
In-Reply-To: <4727BD96.6060901@bitsavers.org>
References: <20071011151401.1dff3613@veda.cnb.uam.es>
	<20071030223654.GA72133@dereel.lemis.com>
	<4727BD96.6060901@bitsavers.org>
Message-ID: <20071031092233.GC14989@freaknet.org>

Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 04:26:14PM -0700, Al Kossow wrote:

> > Is there anybody on this list who knows a way of recovering flaky CDs?
> Easiest first step is try using different kinds of CD/CD-R/DVD-R drives.
> I have found some 'unreadable' CDs could be read using a DVD drive.

I remember a very old SONY cd-rom reader capable of reading very
damaged cd! It was the SONY CDU-33A, it has his
own controller, so was not an IDE or SCSI drive. But it can be
connected to an old soundcard like Spectrum or other similars,
having some cdrom interfaces.

sorry for my  bad english :)




-- 
[ 73 de IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry hacklab]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbesto -  http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE!  - NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ]



