From agrier at poofygoof.com  Sat Jan  6 06:25:26 2001
From: agrier at poofygoof.com (Aaron J. Grier)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:25:26 -0800
Subject: [pups] RL0{1,2} platters available in Portland, OR
Message-ID: <20010105122526.G15812@goldberry.poofy.goof.com>

my company was recently doing some housecleaning and unearthed about a
dozen RL01 and RL02 platters, along with a bunch of 8" RT-11 floppies,
and doc set for RT-11.

seeing that used platters seem to still be rather common, I'm sure I can
talk accounting into letting them go for the price of shipping.
Likewise with the floppies and documentation.  (of course Portland
people can pick up for free, or if you're in SE PDX, I can deliver!)

We have the original DEC packaging for many of the platters, and can
ship worldwide via UPS, DHL, etc...

I guess to bring things back on topic a little, what's the background /
specs of the RL-series drives?  I know they're 5 and 10MB, but that's
about it.  What interface boards were available for the various PDPs and
VAXen?  How fast(?)/reliable/cranky were these things?  :)

-- 
  Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier at poofygoof.com
   "[I]f you can find the purity in hardcore and gabber, I guess you're
    already screwed up enough."  --  Drew Smith


From pino at dohd.org  Tue Jan 16 00:53:15 2001
From: pino at dohd.org (Martijn van Buul)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:53:15 +0100
Subject: [pups] Stupid question..
Message-ID: <20010115155315.A16975@mud.stack.nl>

Hey.

I'm playing around with a /53 running 2.11BSD, trying to port some 
software, and I have a (probably stupid) problem: environ.

When I write a simple program like

#include <stdio.h>

extern char **environ;

void main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char **argv;
{
    printf("Hello world!");
    environ=environ;
}

and compile & link it using cc ("cc -o test test.c"), things go fine, 
however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc")
I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that
including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however,
the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually
linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas?




-- 
    Martijn van Buul -  Pino at dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
	 Geek code: G--  - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
   Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant.

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Tue Jan 16 08:15:45 2001
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] Stupid question..
Message-ID: <200101152215.f0FMFjJ26746@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: Martijn van Buul <pino at dohd.org>
> 
> however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc")
> I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that
> including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however,
> the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually
> linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas?

	Try placing /lib/crt0.o before the test.o:

		ld -o test /lib/crt0.o test.o -lc

	on another note it's usually not a good idea to call a program 'test'
	because when you are least expecting it you will end up running
	/bin/test and wonder what is wrong.

	Steven


From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Thu Jan 18 06:27:53 2001
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:27:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Ultrix-11 Latest News
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101171525000.12324-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>


It was pointed out to me that I was remiss in not making this
announcement here as well as on USENET.  Mea culpa, mea culpa.

-------

Ok, here it is.  An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the
Net.

telnet to 134.198.175.226
login as guest
password is ultrix11

Don't expect much.  As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory
and an RA81 disk.  Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work".  Look
to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not
found out how to tune it any more than it is now.  Of course, if I ever
get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be
considerably better.  Please don't try to crash it.  It is likely to
do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying
it out.  No, it's not running any critical applications.  If you want
to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit".
But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets.

I await any comments and  am still hoping someone will find a box of
Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay
to ship here.

All the best.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Sat Jan 20 07:22:17 2001
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:22:17 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: Ultrix-11 Latest News
References: <944t6p$1o3d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> <944vup$3e6$1@news.IAEhv.nl>
Message-ID: <200101192122.QAA18312@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>

[This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the
 newsgroup(s) shown in the header.]

In article <944vup$3e6$1 at news.IAEhv.nl>,
 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems at iae.nl> writes:
|> Bill,
|> 
|> tried to telnet but no joy
|> 
|> Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in bericht
|> <944t6p$1o3d$1 at info.cs.uofs.edu>...
|> >Ok, here it is.  An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the
|> >Net.
|> >
|> >telnet to 134.198.175.226
|> >login as guest
|> >password is ultrix11

Well, the bad news it it appears I forgot that at one time no the
distnat past TTL was set to some very low number.  If you are more
than a couple hops away from the University of Scranton you won't
be able to get in yet.

However, good news on two fronts.  I have put up the sources and
if I have the time I will try to find the offending bit this weekend.
(Anybody who remembers fixing this in any Ultrix-11 or Ultrix-32
when it happened originaly feel free to save me the trouble of
searching through the source.)  the other good news is I may be 
acquiring an 11/93 shortly.  If I do and it actually still works
(one never knows inthese acquisitions) I will probably be putting
Ultrix-11 on it and building a Split I&D system.  That will then
become the system I will put on the Net to play with.

Hsve a nice weekend, all.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Mon Jan 29 11:24:43 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:24:43 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Hi all,
	I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver

At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
unless you have a PDP-11/45.

I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.

My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?

I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
responding.

Thanks all,
	Warren


struct  vtdevice  {
        int     rcsr,rbuf;
        int     tcsr,tbuf;
};

#define NVT     2
struct  vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
                (struct vtdevice *)0176500,     /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
                (struct vtdevice *)0,
                (struct vtdevice *)-1
};

/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
char vtgetc()
{   
        register c;
    
        VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
  
        while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
           lotim--;
           if (lotim==0) hitim--;
           if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
        }
        c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
}

vtputc(c)
register c;
{
        register s;

        while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
        s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
        VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
}

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From robin at ruffnready.co.uk  Tue Jan 30 00:11:33 2001
From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY@ruffnready.co.uk>

Warren,
Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
universal across all PDP11s.

Robin
In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren
Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>Hi all,
>       I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
>with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
>install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver
>
>At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
>so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
>http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
>unless you have a PDP-11/45.
>
>I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
>find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
>kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.
>
>My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
>equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?
>
>I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
>responding.
>
>Thanks all,
>       Warren
>
>
>struct  vtdevice  {
>        int     rcsr,rbuf;
>        int     tcsr,tbuf;
>};
>
>#define NVT     2
>struct  vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
>                (struct vtdevice *)0176500,     /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
>                (struct vtdevice *)0,
>                (struct vtdevice *)-1
>};
>
>/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
>char vtgetc()
>{   
>        register c;
>    
>        VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
>  
>        while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
>           lotim--;
>           if (lotim==0) hitim--;
>           if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
>        }
>        c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
>}
>
>vtputc(c)
>register c;
>{
>        register s;
>
>        while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
>        s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
>        VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
>}

____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch     robin at ruffnready.co.uk

M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD     Old computers and radios always welcome


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue Jan 30 07:37:01 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:37:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
In-Reply-To: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY@ruffnready.co.uk> from Robin Birch at "Jan 29,
 2001 02:11:33 pm"
Message-ID: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
> 
> Robin

I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.

If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?

	Warren

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From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca  Tue Jan 30 08:12:40 2001
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:12:40 -0500
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <200101292214.JAA18238@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>

I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs.  If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't.  A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times.  If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.

On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked.  So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.

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From iking at microsoft.com  Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the
pseudo-device.  I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory).  The input
silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has
to be handled pretty carefully.  -- isk 

-----Original Message-----
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver


I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs.  If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't.  A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times.  If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.

On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked.  So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.

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From grog at lemis.com  Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030
Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines  documentation
In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001@yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800
References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote:
> hello sir/madam,
>                   i want to know the information about
> the bsd 4.3 for vax machines .
> let u provide me documentation regarding this topic.
> iam waiting for your earliest reply.

The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with
Vaxen.   Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
can get it for the Vax.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Tue Jan 30 12:19:40 2001
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 01 18:19:40 PST
Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines  documentation
Message-ID: <0101300219.AA03337@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
> can get it for the Vax.

For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out:

http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/

-- 
Michael Sokolov
Public Service Agent
International Engineering and Science Task Force

1351 VINE AVE APT 27		Phone: +1-714-738-5409
FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA	(home office)

E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP)

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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver)
In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden
 at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm"
Message-ID: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
> 
> Robin

Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and 
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html
for details.

At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and
just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console
line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image:

Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ 
Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts

Tape records are:
   0 tinyboot
   1 copy
   2 root.img

Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open

E11>show cpu
Emulation:  PDP-11/34a, FP11A
  NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET,
  NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B,
  NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD,
  NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM,
  NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP
Host:  Cyrix 486, NPX
E11>g 70000

Opened tinyboot
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF

40tinyboot from virtual tape server
Load tape record: 1

Opened copy
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy
Infile: vt(0,0,2)
Outfile: rk(0,0,0)

Opened root.img
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
100K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who
wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.

The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:

  I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s.  (I also have some
  Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
  available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
  ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
  management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days.  :-)
  I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.

He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.

Many thanks all!

	Warren

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From rdonkin at bigfoot.com  Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001
From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000
Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com>

Hi,

I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the
Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows:

set cpu 22b
set cpu 2048K
at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown
boot rp

While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:

- 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary

- a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. 
The makefile is:

   date2: date2.c
           cc -o date2 -c date2.c 

- 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way

Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet
as the simulator is not networked)?  Or do I need to provide more
memory?

Some other info:

# uname -a
2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET
1998
     root at pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON  PDP11

By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to
set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the 
updated date2.c program.

Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed
that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11!

Cheers,

Richard

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From robin at ruffnready.co.uk  Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001
From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
References: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY@ruffnready.co.uk>
 <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <NatiWLAS0td6Ewpf@ruffnready.co.uk>

In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren
Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>In article by Robin Birch:
>> Warren,
>> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
>> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
>> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
>> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
>> universal across all PDP11s.
>> 
>> Robin
>
>I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
>I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.
>
>If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
>line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
>to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?
>
>       Warren
Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as
once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC
system had installed.

The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to
me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that
is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single
driver.

Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch     robin at ruffnready.co.uk

M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD     Old computers and radios always welcome

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From iking at microsoft.com  Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
(I even have some original shipping boxes.)  

BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my
11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can
use it all in a "mapped" configuration.  Also, if I am going to transfer a
disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of
Warren's VTServer program.  

TIA -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.

The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:

  I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s.  (I also have some
  Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
  available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
  ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
  management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days.  :-)
  I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.

He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.

Many thanks all!

	Warren

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From mark at cs.ualberta.ca  Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001
From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30,
 2001 07:55:19 am"
Message-ID: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>

> 
> While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
> 
> - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
> 
> - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. 
> The makefile is:
> 
>    date2: date2.c
>            cc -o date2 -c date2.c 
Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
and not produce an executable.

> 
> - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way
> 


-- 
Dr. Mark Green                                 mark at cs.ualberta.ca
McCalla Professor                              (780) 492-4584
Department of Computing Science                (780) 492-1071 (FAX)
University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada

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From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu>

Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.

    carl

        carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
        {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
                                                  clowenstein at ucsd.edu

> From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
>         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> 
> In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> (I even have some original shipping boxes.)  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> 
> 
> He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> onto his real disk.
> 
> Many thanks all!
> 
> 	Warren
> 

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From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001
From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B@tampabay.rr.com>

I'll second that.  The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images.  Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.

-- Ken

Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> 
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl
> 
>         carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
>         {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
>                                                   clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> 
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> >         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> >       Warren
> >


From iking at microsoft.com  Tue Jan 30 03:08:59 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:08:59 -0800
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB00@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it
to you.  

-- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver


Hi all,
	I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver

At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
unless you have a PDP-11/45.

I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.

My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?

I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
responding.

Thanks all,
	Warren


struct  vtdevice  {
        int     rcsr,rbuf;
        int     tcsr,tbuf;
};

#define NVT     2
struct  vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
                (struct vtdevice *)0176500,     /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
                (struct vtdevice *)0,
                (struct vtdevice *)-1
};

/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
char vtgetc()
{   
        register c;
    
        VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
  
        while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
           lotim--;
           if (lotim==0) hitim--;
           if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
        }
        c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
}

vtputc(c)
register c;
{
        register s;

        while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
        s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
        VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
}

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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at
 "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am"
Message-ID: <200101302213.f0UMDUQ35508@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl

Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
That's the problem.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From iking at microsoft.com  Wed Jan 31 08:38:15 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
"Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff at
loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.  

If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>  

Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM
To: Carl Lowenstein
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


I'll second that.  The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images.  Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.

-- Ken

Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> 
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl
> 
>         carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
>         {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
>                                                   clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> 
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> >         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both
ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> >       Warren
> >

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From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jan 31 09:27:56 2001
From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com>

Hi Ian,

Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.

Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data.  The
images are all clean there.  Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see).  I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.

In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)

Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...

Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)

Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...

I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle.  Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you?  It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...

Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34.  I think
it ran on a '40.  I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34  B^)

Cheers,

-- Ken

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
> 
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
> to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>
> 
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian

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From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Wed Jan 31 09:30:55 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <200101302330.PAA29420@chiton.ucsd.edu>

> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> > 
> >     carl
> 
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren

Why, said he wonderingly.  Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions?  Thats all I can think of immediately.

Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.

The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines.  Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.

I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home.  That must
be the place where such things happen.

I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem.  I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.

    carl


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From rdonkin at bigfoot.com  Wed Jan 31 09:33:02 2001
From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000
Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <3A774F2E.46106B82@bigfoot.com>

Mark Green wrote:
> 
> >
> > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
> >
> > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
> >
> > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable.
> > The makefile is:
> >
> >    date2: date2.c
> >            cc -o date2 -c date2.c
> Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
> and not produce an executable.

Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one.  

Thanks

Richard

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From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Wed Jan 31 11:45:20 2001
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
In-Reply-To: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:

> Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
> 
> Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
> maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
> 

I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo
Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to
install a fixed "date" command.  Yes, it is only the date command
that is not Y2K ready.

First:   Set the date to 9912312359
Second:  wait one minute.  It is now 1 Jan 2000.
Third:   Set the date to 12312359
Fourth:  wait one minute.  It is now 1 Jan 2001.
Fifth:   Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time.
Voila.  Primitive, but it works.  I guess I could try building the GNU
date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD.

All the best.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


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From iking at microsoft.com  Wed Jan 31 16:58:53 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on
an emulator -- that's been a goal.  I've tried various 'processors' (in
emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel.  Can anyone
say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"?
If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to
boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some
to be the best).  

And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report.  :-)  -- Ian


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> > 
> >     carl
> 
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren

Why, said he wonderingly.  Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions?  Thats all I can think of immediately.

Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.

The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines.  Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.

I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home.  That must
be the place where such things happen.

I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem.  I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.

    carl

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From iking at microsoft.com  Wed Jan 31 17:05:55 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1C@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size
restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking at killthewabbit.org.  I would
greatly appreciate your sending it to me.  BTW, I've been using 1977 (the
year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools
won't accept the "01" year.  :-)  

Cheers -- isk 

PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them.
:-)  

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM
To: Ian King
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


Hi Ian,

Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.

Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data.  The
images are all clean there.  Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see).  I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.

In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)

Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...

Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)

Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...

I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle.  Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you?  It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...

Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34.  I think
it ran on a '40.  I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34  B^)

Cheers,

-- Ken

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff
at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
> 
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600
baud)
> to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>
> 
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian

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From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jan 31 23:20:06 2001
From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3A781106.F7302A5A@tampabay.rr.com>

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)

So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've
run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently
damaged:

gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error

I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc.

I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of
the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file).

I did not try and run the MD5 list yet.  But this is an example of why I
had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive...  B^)

-- Ken

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From agrier at poofygoof.com  Sat Jan  6 06:25:26 2001
From: agrier at poofygoof.com (Aaron J. Grier)
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:25:26 -0800
Subject: [pups] RL0{1,2} platters available in Portland, OR
Message-ID: <20010105122526.G15812@goldberry.poofy.goof.com>

my company was recently doing some housecleaning and unearthed about a
dozen RL01 and RL02 platters, along with a bunch of 8" RT-11 floppies,
and doc set for RT-11.

seeing that used platters seem to still be rather common, I'm sure I can
talk accounting into letting them go for the price of shipping.
Likewise with the floppies and documentation.  (of course Portland
people can pick up for free, or if you're in SE PDX, I can deliver!)

We have the original DEC packaging for many of the platters, and can
ship worldwide via UPS, DHL, etc...

I guess to bring things back on topic a little, what's the background /
specs of the RL-series drives?  I know they're 5 and 10MB, but that's
about it.  What interface boards were available for the various PDPs and
VAXen?  How fast(?)/reliable/cranky were these things?  :)

-- 
  Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier at poofygoof.com
   "[I]f you can find the purity in hardcore and gabber, I guess you're
    already screwed up enough."  --  Drew Smith


From pino at dohd.org  Tue Jan 16 00:53:15 2001
From: pino at dohd.org (Martijn van Buul)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 15:53:15 +0100
Subject: [pups] Stupid question..
Message-ID: <20010115155315.A16975@mud.stack.nl>

Hey.

I'm playing around with a /53 running 2.11BSD, trying to port some 
software, and I have a (probably stupid) problem: environ.

When I write a simple program like

#include <stdio.h>

extern char **environ;

void main(argc, argv)
int argc;
char **argv;
{
    printf("Hello world!");
    environ=environ;
}

and compile & link it using cc ("cc -o test test.c"), things go fine, 
however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc")
I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that
including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however,
the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually
linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas?




-- 
    Martijn van Buul -  Pino at dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/
	 Geek code: G--  - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333
   Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant.

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Tue Jan 16 08:15:45 2001
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] Stupid question..
Message-ID: <200101152215.f0FMFjJ26746@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: Martijn van Buul <pino at dohd.org>
> 
> however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc")
> I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that
> including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however,
> the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually
> linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas?

	Try placing /lib/crt0.o before the test.o:

		ld -o test /lib/crt0.o test.o -lc

	on another note it's usually not a good idea to call a program 'test'
	because when you are least expecting it you will end up running
	/bin/test and wonder what is wrong.

	Steven


From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Thu Jan 18 06:27:53 2001
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 15:27:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Ultrix-11 Latest News
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101171525000.12324-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>


It was pointed out to me that I was remiss in not making this
announcement here as well as on USENET.  Mea culpa, mea culpa.

-------

Ok, here it is.  An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the
Net.

telnet to 134.198.175.226
login as guest
password is ultrix11

Don't expect much.  As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory
and an RA81 disk.  Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work".  Look
to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not
found out how to tune it any more than it is now.  Of course, if I ever
get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be
considerably better.  Please don't try to crash it.  It is likely to
do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying
it out.  No, it's not running any critical applications.  If you want
to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit".
But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets.

I await any comments and  am still hoping someone will find a box of
Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay
to ship here.

All the best.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Sat Jan 20 07:22:17 2001
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 16:22:17 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: Ultrix-11 Latest News
References: <944t6p$1o3d$1@info.cs.uofs.edu> <944vup$3e6$1@news.IAEhv.nl>
Message-ID: <200101192122.QAA18312@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>

[This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the
 newsgroup(s) shown in the header.]

In article <944vup$3e6$1 at news.IAEhv.nl>,
 "Hans Vlems" <hvlems at iae.nl> writes:
|> Bill,
|> 
|> tried to telnet but no joy
|> 
|> Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in bericht
|> <944t6p$1o3d$1 at info.cs.uofs.edu>...
|> >Ok, here it is.  An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the
|> >Net.
|> >
|> >telnet to 134.198.175.226
|> >login as guest
|> >password is ultrix11

Well, the bad news it it appears I forgot that at one time no the
distnat past TTL was set to some very low number.  If you are more
than a couple hops away from the University of Scranton you won't
be able to get in yet.

However, good news on two fronts.  I have put up the sources and
if I have the time I will try to find the offending bit this weekend.
(Anybody who remembers fixing this in any Ultrix-11 or Ultrix-32
when it happened originaly feel free to save me the trouble of
searching through the source.)  the other good news is I may be 
acquiring an 11/93 shortly.  If I do and it actually still works
(one never knows inthese acquisitions) I will probably be putting
Ultrix-11 on it and building a Split I&D system.  That will then
become the system I will put on the Net to play with.

Hsve a nice weekend, all.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Mon Jan 29 11:24:43 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 12:24:43 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Hi all,
	I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver

At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
unless you have a PDP-11/45.

I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.

My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?

I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
responding.

Thanks all,
	Warren


struct  vtdevice  {
        int     rcsr,rbuf;
        int     tcsr,tbuf;
};

#define NVT     2
struct  vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
                (struct vtdevice *)0176500,     /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
                (struct vtdevice *)0,
                (struct vtdevice *)-1
};

/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
char vtgetc()
{   
        register c;
    
        VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
  
        while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
           lotim--;
           if (lotim==0) hitim--;
           if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
        }
        c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
}

vtputc(c)
register c;
{
        register s;

        while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
        s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
        VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
}

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From robin at ruffnready.co.uk  Tue Jan 30 00:11:33 2001
From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY@ruffnready.co.uk>

Warren,
Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
universal across all PDP11s.

Robin
In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren
Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>Hi all,
>       I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
>with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
>install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver
>
>At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
>so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
>http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
>unless you have a PDP-11/45.
>
>I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
>find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
>kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.
>
>My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
>equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?
>
>I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
>responding.
>
>Thanks all,
>       Warren
>
>
>struct  vtdevice  {
>        int     rcsr,rbuf;
>        int     tcsr,tbuf;
>};
>
>#define NVT     2
>struct  vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
>                (struct vtdevice *)0176500,     /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
>                (struct vtdevice *)0,
>                (struct vtdevice *)-1
>};
>
>/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
>char vtgetc()
>{   
>        register c;
>    
>        VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
>  
>        while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
>           lotim--;
>           if (lotim==0) hitim--;
>           if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
>        }
>        c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
>}
>
>vtputc(c)
>register c;
>{
>        register s;
>
>        while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
>        s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
>        VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
>}

____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch     robin at ruffnready.co.uk

M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD     Old computers and radios always welcome


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue Jan 30 07:37:01 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:37:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
In-Reply-To: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY@ruffnready.co.uk> from Robin Birch at "Jan 29,
 2001 02:11:33 pm"
Message-ID: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
> 
> Robin

I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.

If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?

	Warren

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From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca  Tue Jan 30 08:12:40 2001
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 17:12:40 -0500
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <200101292214.JAA18238@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>

I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs.  If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't.  A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times.  If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.

On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked.  So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.

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From iking at microsoft.com  Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the
pseudo-device.  I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory).  The input
silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has
to be handled pretty carefully.  -- isk 

-----Original Message-----
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM
To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver


I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with
remote-device installs.  If it were me I would prefer to be able
to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons:
- a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does);
the console usually doesn't.  A silo offers a little more robustness
and may allow greater speeds.
- it is better to keep the console available as a place for error
messages to show up when things go wrong.
- things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have
to try booting several times.  If I have to get a serial-line switch
or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go
wrong, and another thing I can screw up.

On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to
get any code that would help, whichever way it worked.  So I also
favour letting the implementor choose.

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From grog at lemis.com  Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030
Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines  documentation
In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001@yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800
References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail@web9007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote:
> hello sir/madam,
>                   i want to know the information about
> the bsd 4.3 for vax machines .
> let u provide me documentation regarding this topic.
> iam waiting for your earliest reply.

The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with
Vaxen.   Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
can get it for the Vax.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Tue Jan 30 12:19:40 2001
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 01 18:19:40 PST
Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines  documentation
Message-ID: <0101300219.AA03337@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

Greg Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> Check the UNIX Heritage Society at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you
> can get it for the Vax.

For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out:

http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/

-- 
Michael Sokolov
Public Service Agent
International Engineering and Science Task Force

1351 VINE AVE APT 27		Phone: +1-714-738-5409
FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA	(home office)

E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP)

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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver)
In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden
 at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm"
Message-ID: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Robin Birch:
> Warren,
> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
> universal across all PDP11s.
> 
> Robin

Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and 
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html
for details.

At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and
just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console
line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image:

Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ 
Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts

Tape records are:
   0 tinyboot
   1 copy
   2 root.img

Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open

E11>show cpu
Emulation:  PDP-11/34a, FP11A
  NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET,
  NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B,
  NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD,
  NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM,
  NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP
Host:  Cyrix 486, NPX
E11>g 70000

Opened tinyboot
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF

40tinyboot from virtual tape server
Load tape record: 1

Opened copy
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy
Infile: vt(0,0,2)
Outfile: rk(0,0,0)

Opened root.img
 rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
100K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who
wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.

The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:

  I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s.  (I also have some
  Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
  available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
  ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
  management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days.  :-)
  I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.

He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.

Many thanks all!

	Warren

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From rdonkin at bigfoot.com  Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001
From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000
Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com>

Hi,

I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the
Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows:

set cpu 22b
set cpu 2048K
at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown
boot rp

While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:

- 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary

- a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. 
The makefile is:

   date2: date2.c
           cc -o date2 -c date2.c 

- 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way

Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet
as the simulator is not networked)?  Or do I need to provide more
memory?

Some other info:

# uname -a
2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET
1998
     root at pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON  PDP11

By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to
set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the 
updated date2.c program.

Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed
that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11!

Cheers,

Richard

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From robin at ruffnready.co.uk  Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001
From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
References: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY@ruffnready.co.uk>
 <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <NatiWLAS0td6Ewpf@ruffnready.co.uk>

In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560 at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren
Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes
>In article by Robin Birch:
>> Warren,
>> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a
>> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device.  You
>> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more
>> complex boot driver in.  If you use the console then that shoud be
>> universal across all PDP11s.
>> 
>> Robin
>
>I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :)
>I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s.
>
>If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial
>line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate
>to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined?
>
>       Warren
Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as
once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC
system had installed.

The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to
me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that
is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single
driver.

Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch     robin at ruffnready.co.uk

M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD     Old computers and radios always welcome

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From iking at microsoft.com  Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
(I even have some original shipping boxes.)  

BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my
11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can
use it all in a "mapped" configuration.  Also, if I am going to transfer a
disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of
Warren's VTServer program.  

TIA -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable
disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create
a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it.

The requestor is Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>, who says:

  I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s.  (I also have some
  Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k
  available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can
  ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory
  management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days.  :-)
  I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11.

He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
onto his real disk.

Many thanks all!

	Warren

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From mark at cs.ualberta.ca  Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001
From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99@bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30,
 2001 07:55:19 am"
Message-ID: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>

> 
> While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
> 
> - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
> 
> - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. 
> The makefile is:
> 
>    date2: date2.c
>            cc -o date2 -c date2.c 
Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
and not produce an executable.

> 
> - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way
> 


-- 
Dr. Mark Green                                 mark at cs.ualberta.ca
McCalla Professor                              (780) 492-4584
Department of Computing Science                (780) 492-1071 (FAX)
University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada

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From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu>

Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.

    carl

        carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
        {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
                                                  clowenstein at ucsd.edu

> From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
>         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> 
> In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> (I even have some original shipping boxes.)  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> 
> 
> He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> onto his real disk.
> 
> Many thanks all!
> 
> 	Warren
> 

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From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001
From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B@tampabay.rr.com>

I'll second that.  The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images.  Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.

-- Ken

Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> 
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl
> 
>         carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
>         {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
>                                                   clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> 
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> >         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> >       Warren
> >


From iking at microsoft.com  Tue Jan 30 03:08:59 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 09:08:59 -0800
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB00@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it
to you.  

-- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM
To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver


Hi all,
	I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11
with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and
install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver

At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code
so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at:
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable
unless you have a PDP-11/45.

I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't
find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11
kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read.

My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone
equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs?

I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in
responding.

Thanks all,
	Warren


struct  vtdevice  {
        int     rcsr,rbuf;
        int     tcsr,tbuf;
};

#define NVT     2
struct  vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = {
                (struct vtdevice *)0176500,     /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */
                (struct vtdevice *)0,
                (struct vtdevice *)-1
};

/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */
char vtgetc()
{   
        register c;
    
        VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535;
  
        while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) {
           lotim--;
           if (lotim==0) hitim--;
           if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); }
        }
        c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c);
}

vtputc(c)
register c;
{
        register s;

        while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ;
        s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr;
        VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s;
}

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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283@chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at
 "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am"
Message-ID: <200101302213.f0UMDUQ35508@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl

Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
That's the problem.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From iking at microsoft.com  Wed Jan 31 08:38:15 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
"Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff at
loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.  

If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>  

Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM
To: Carl Lowenstein
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


I'll second that.  The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the
usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three
RJ05 disk images.  Long long ago I think I got folks interested in
using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image
as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more
than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details.

-- Ken

Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> 
> Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> 
>     carl
> 
>         carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
>         {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
>                                                   clowenstein at ucsd.edu
> 
> > From owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001
> > From: Ian King <iking at microsoft.com>
> > To: "'wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>,
> >         PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800
> >
> > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a
> > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both
ways.
> > (I even have some original shipping boxes.)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au]
> > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM
> > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society
> > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> >
> >
> > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download
> > onto his real disk.
> >
> > Many thanks all!
> >
> >       Warren
> >

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From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jan 31 09:27:56 2001
From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com>

Hi Ian,

Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.

Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data.  The
images are all clean there.  Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see).  I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.

In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)

Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...

Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)

Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...

I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle.  Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you?  It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...

Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34.  I think
it ran on a '40.  I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34  B^)

Cheers,

-- Ken

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
> 
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud)
> to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>
> 
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian

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From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Wed Jan 31 09:30:55 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <200101302330.PAA29420@chiton.ucsd.edu>

> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> > 
> >     carl
> 
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren

Why, said he wonderingly.  Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions?  Thats all I can think of immediately.

Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.

The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines.  Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.

I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home.  That must
be the place where such things happen.

I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem.  I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.

    carl


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From rdonkin at bigfoot.com  Wed Jan 31 09:33:02 2001
From: rdonkin at bigfoot.com (Richard Donkin)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000
Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails
References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca>
Message-ID: <3A774F2E.46106B82@bigfoot.com>

Mark Green wrote:
> 
> >
> > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex
> > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following:
> >
> > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary
> >
> > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but
> > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable.
> > The makefile is:
> >
> >    date2: date2.c
> >            cc -o date2 -c date2.c
> Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program
> and not produce an executable.

Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one.  

Thanks

Richard

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From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Wed Jan 31 11:45:20 2001
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
In-Reply-To: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8@tampabay.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000@triangle.cs.uofs.edu>

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote:

> Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)
> 
> Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
> maybe better to let it live back in 1975...
> 

I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo
Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to
install a fixed "date" command.  Yes, it is only the date command
that is not Y2K ready.

First:   Set the date to 9912312359
Second:  wait one minute.  It is now 1 Jan 2000.
Third:   Set the date to 12312359
Fourth:  wait one minute.  It is now 1 Jan 2001.
Fifth:   Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time.
Voila.  Primitive, but it works.  I guess I could try building the GNU
date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD.

All the best.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>   


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From iking at microsoft.com  Wed Jan 31 16:58:53 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on
an emulator -- that's been a goal.  I've tried various 'processors' (in
emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel.  Can anyone
say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"?
If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to
boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some
to be the best).  

And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report.  :-)  -- Ian


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM
To: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


> From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
> To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST)
> CC: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> In article by Carl Lowenstein:
> > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major
> > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable
> > RK05 image.  Something like 4000 blocks.
> > 
> >     carl
> 
> Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :(
> That's the problem.
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren

Why, said he wonderingly.  Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does
not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with
MPTS and MFPS instructions?  Thats all I can think of immediately.

Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so.
There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this
one would be a real show-stopper.

The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be
concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines.  Just
offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that
would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible.

I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home.  That must
be the place where such things happen.

I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem.  I
seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and
RTI instructions to set the processor priority.

    carl

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From iking at microsoft.com  Wed Jan 31 17:05:55 2001
From: iking at microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1C@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>

Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size
restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking at killthewabbit.org.  I would
greatly appreciate your sending it to me.  BTW, I've been using 1977 (the
year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools
won't accept the "01" year.  :-)  

Cheers -- isk 

PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them.
:-)  

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM
To: Ian King
Cc: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?


Hi Ian,

Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh.

Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data.  The
images are all clean there.  Curiously enough I even found the directory
where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see).  I just rebuilt the
code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine.

In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0'
the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^)

Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape
so there is no root password set...

Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^)

Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000...
maybe better to let it live back in 1975...

I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle.  Do you want me to try and UUencode it
and mail it to you?  It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form...

Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34.  I think
it ran on a '40.  I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started
using UNIX, V6 running on a '34  B^)

Cheers,

-- Ken

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)  I've also tried the
> "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot
> 'em.  One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address?  Stuff
at
> loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions.
> 
> If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running
> E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the
> serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get
> one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600
baud)
> to spray it onto a disk.  <sigh>
> 
> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated.  -- Ian

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From kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com  Wed Jan 31 23:20:06 2001
From: kwellsch at tampabay.rr.com (Ken Wellsch)
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500
Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?
References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13@red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <3A781106.F7302A5A@tampabay.rr.com>

Ian King wrote:
> 
> Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it
> wouldn't unzip it.  (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a
> transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.)

So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've
run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently
damaged:

gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error
gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz:
              invalid compressed data--crc error

I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc.

I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of
the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file).

I did not try and run the MD5 list yet.  But this is an example of why I
had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive...  B^)

-- Ken

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