From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Wed May 12 12:11:03 2004
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 22:11:03 -0400
Subject: [pups] E11 and versions and I/O devices
Message-ID: <000601c437c6$611f25a0$6401a8c0@who5>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
I've got a bundle of questions regarding E11, and its range of I/O
devices. Here goes:
1) Is anyone running the DOS/Windows version with the Display Register
device attached to a LPT port? Where did they obtain the LED devices
for it?

2) How did they configure its interpretation of the PDP-11 serial
devices? 

3) Or the network connections? Favorite Ethernet cards as well.

And last but not least:
4)Which printer arrangement was used? Serial? Even a parallel
solution?

To be honest I haven't seen any action on both lists with in the past
number of days, so I thought I'd post something new to the PUPS list,
and give it something to chew on.
 -------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi


From albert at users.sf.net  Wed May  5 07:27:11 2004
From: albert at users.sf.net (Albert Cahalan)
Date: 04 May 2004 17:27:11 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] SVR4-MP "ps -z" and "ps -Z"
Message-ID: <1083706031.951.182.camel@cube>

I'm seeking info about the SVR4-MP ps options
-z and -Z, as used for mandatory access control.
This is so that they can be implemented for Linux.

Alternately, are there more-common ways to handle
this security data or more-common usage of the
-z and -Z options?

I could use some example output.

All "trusted" high-security systems are of interest.



From kstailey at yahoo.com  Sun May  9 03:10:33 2004
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 10:10:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD
Message-ID: <20040508171033.7962.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I just thought of a neat idea.  Put old versions of BSD source code into a CVS
archive using "cvs import" and then run a CVSWEB site with that.

Possibly converting SCCS to RCS to CVS.  I don't know how far back my BSD SCCS
goes.

Maybe a smaller project to CVS 4.3BSD-tahoe to Quasijarus first.

One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD
developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes.

Maybe subversion not CVS but I've yet to do anything with subversion.

Does anything like this already exist?

Thanks,
Ken



	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 

From albert at users.sf.net  Sun May  9 02:15:20 2004
From: albert at users.sf.net (Albert Cahalan)
Date: 08 May 2004 12:15:20 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD
In-Reply-To: <20040508171033.7962.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040508171033.7962.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1084032920.952.272.camel@cube>

On Sat, 2004-05-08 at 13:10, Kenneth Stailey wrote:

> Possibly converting SCCS to RCS to CVS.  I don't know how far back my BSD SCCS
> goes.
> 
> Maybe a smaller project to CVS 4.3BSD-tahoe to Quasijarus first.
> 
> One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD
> developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes.

Bitkeeper handles this well. I suspect that Larry McVoy would
at least be mildly interested in giving advice for such
a project. Bitkeeper is SCCS-based.

Bitkeeper also has a superior web interface. You can't beat
standard unified diff format with a tiny bit of color added.



From imp at bsdimp.com  Sun May  9 05:19:29 2004
From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 13:19:29 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD
In-Reply-To: <1084032920.952.272.camel@cube>
References: <20040508171033.7962.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1084032920.952.272.camel@cube>
Message-ID: <20040508.131929.11824761.imp@bsdimp.com>

In message: <1084032920.952.272.camel at cube>
            Albert Cahalan <albert at users.sourceforge.net> writes:
: On Sat, 2004-05-08 at 13:10, Kenneth Stailey wrote:
: 
: > Possibly converting SCCS to RCS to CVS.  I don't know how far back my BSD SCCS
: > goes.
: > 
: > Maybe a smaller project to CVS 4.3BSD-tahoe to Quasijarus first.
: > 
: > One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD
: > developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes.
: 
: Bitkeeper handles this well. I suspect that Larry McVoy would
: at least be mildly interested in giving advice for such
: a project. Bitkeeper is SCCS-based.
: 
: Bitkeeper also has a superior web interface. You can't beat
: standard unified diff format with a tiny bit of color added.

If you are going to use a proprietary system, you might as well use
perforce, which has better branching and file movement support than
bitkeeper.  But I guess I'm a little biased because I like p4 better
than bk.

Warner

From kstailey at yahoo.com  Sun May  9 08:07:44 2004
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 15:07:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD
In-Reply-To: <20040508171033.7962.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040508220744.12670.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Kenneth Stailey <kstailey at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
 
> Maybe a smaller project to [use] CVS [to track changes from] 4.3BSD-tahoe
> to Quasijarus first.

done.

http://hermes.tubas.net/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/4.3BSD/src/


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs  
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover 

From kstailey at yahoo.com  Sat May 15 09:41:10 2004
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 16:41:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Quasijarus 0c now listed on SIMH Software Kits page
Message-ID: <20040514234110.49176.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com>

http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html


	
		
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Sun May  9 03:19:17 2004
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 17:19:17 -0000
Subject: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD
Message-ID: <0405081719.AA04443@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey at yahoo.com> wrote:

> One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD
> developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes.

Yes, neither SCCS nor RCS nor CVS tracks file moves, and for this single reason
an SCCS/RCS/CVS tree is not sufficient by itself to act as a complete BSD
history tree.  See this page for an idea of what I had to go through:

http://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/Quasijarus/sccs.html

MS

From riebling at verizon.net  Fri May 21 03:15:49 2004
From: riebling at verizon.net (Eric Riebling)
Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 13:15:49 -0400
Subject: [TUHS]  	m68k SVR2 on Perq (was: web site detailing Apple's
  mc68k UNIX, A/UX)
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.1.20040520131318.0295ec50@incoming.verizon.net>


>
>Incidentally, the Unisoft m68k port of SVR2 at the core of A/UX was also
>ported to the Perq-5 in 1986/1987, to create the Crosfield Studio 9500.
>
>Perq had just folded, but a core group of ex-Perq employees worked with a
>team from the UK company Crosfield Electronics to take the machine (which at
>that time existed only as a wire-wrap prototype) through to production.
>
>I was a member of that team and I have fond memories of sitting in a
>basement office in Pittsburgh surrounded by kernel listings (with a very
>puzzled look on my face).
>
>Just a small footnote in Unix history...
>
>--
>Roger

That's strange, I have those very same memories.  In fact I was looking
for someone who would appreciate this:

        #ifdef PYTHON



Cheers,

Eric 


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Tue May 25 18:40:52 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:40:52 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
Message-ID: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

Would it make sense to add Sprite to the Unix Archives? To me, yes, it was
enough UNIX like although it wasn't ATT or BSD derived and it had many
advanced features.

I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of DECstations back in
1994-1995 out of the freshly published WalnuCreek CD and I still long for some
of it features.

The distribution is still available at

	http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/

				j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From chris at noncombatant.org  Wed May 26 10:31:53 2004
From: chris at noncombatant.org (Chris Palmer)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:31:53 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] Grokline: Tracing the history of Unix IP
Message-ID: <20040526003153.GL5703@nodewarrior.org>

Maybe everyone here already knows about this, but I haven't seen
anything, so I'm posting it.

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040524130757328

"We hope with this Grokline project to be able to identify any
conceivable legal issues that those wishing to block, slow, hobble or
tax GNU/Linux may try to use in future legal assaults on the community. 
If there are litigation risks, even just from nuisance lawsuits,
particularly with respect to patents, we want to find those risks,
hopefully before they do, and mitigate or resolve them now. I am
personally convinced, as you no doubt are too, that the next wave of
attacks on GNU/Linux and the GPL will involve patents."


-- 
http://chris.nodewarrior.org/


From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Wed May 26 15:26:21 2004
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 01:26:21 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <003501c442e1$fb9f1c40$6401a8c0@who5>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
I don't know about everyone else, but you've got my vote. I have a
copy of the same CD here, I haven't been able to boot it, because I
don't have either machine, but still.... And I was able to get my copy
from the same CD maker. (There's a story attached to that as a matter
of fact.)
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On
> Behalf Of José R. Valverde
> Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:41 AM
> To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
> 
> Would it make sense to add Sprite to the Unix Archives? To me, yes,
it was
> enough UNIX like although it wasn't ATT or BSD derived and it had
many
> advanced features.
> 
> I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of
DECstations back in
> 1994-1995 out of the freshly published WalnuCreek CD and I still
long for some
> of it features.
> 
> The distribution is still available at
> 
> 	http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/
> 
> 				j
> --
> 	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them
first!
> 
> 			    José R. Valverde
> 
> 	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la
Natural
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From rbelk at onlybsd.com  Wed May 26 14:29:57 2004
From: rbelk at onlybsd.com (Randy Belk)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:29:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
References: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <51429.24.164.202.240.1085545797.squirrel@24.164.202.240>

I have looked everywhere for the cdrom of sprite. I saw a book about it a 
long time ago at a bookstore and almost bought it. Some very good theory
and code was in the book if I remember right.  I don't guess any one would
have the Walnut Creek cdrom of sprite that they would convert to an ISO
and make available?

> Would it make sense to add Sprite to the Unix Archives? To me, yes, it was
> enough UNIX like although it wasn't ATT or BSD derived and it had many
> advanced features.
>
> I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of DECstations back
> in
> 1994-1995 out of the freshly published WalnuCreek CD and I still long for
> some
> of it features.
>
> The distribution is still available at
>
> 	http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/
>
> 				j
> --
> 	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!
>
> 			    José R. Valverde
>
> 	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>


---------------------------------[ http://www.onlybsd.com/~rbelk/ ]--


From grog at lemis.com  Wed May 26 18:05:06 2004
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:35:06 +0930
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <51429.24.164.202.240.1085545797.squirrel@24.164.202.240>
References: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
	<51429.24.164.202.240.1085545797.squirrel@24.164.202.240>
Message-ID: <20040526080506.GE44763@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Tuesday, 25 May 2004 at 23:29:57 -0500, Randy Belk wrote:
>> Would it make sense to add Sprite to the Unix Archives? To me, yes, it was
>> enough UNIX like although it wasn't ATT or BSD derived and it had many
>> advanced features.
>>
>> I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of
>> DECstations back in 1994-1995 out of the freshly published
>> WalnuCreek CD and I still long for some of it features.
>>
>> The distribution is still available at
>>
>>       http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/
>
> I have looked everywhere for the cdrom of sprite. I saw a book about
> it a long time ago at a bookstore and almost bought it. Some very
> good theory and code was in the book if I remember right.  I don't
> guess any one would have the Walnut Creek cdrom of sprite that they
> would convert to an ISO and make available?

Well, a CD-ROM *is* an ISO, so it doesn't need conversion beyond
dd'ing to some other format (note: CD-ROMs have a 2 kB block size, so
you'll need a bs=4b or larger for it to work at all).

Anyway, I think I have what you're looking for: "Sprite 1984-1993",
published by Walnut Creek CDROM.  I can make a copy for you (I'm
pretty sure there's no copyright issue, but I'll check what's on the
CD before making the copy).  But wouldn't it be easier just to
download the stuff off the net?

Greg
--
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 187 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20040526/4e2dbdbe/attachment.sig>

From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Wed May 26 18:08:27 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 10:08:27 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Grokline: Tracing the history of Unix IP
In-Reply-To: <20040526003153.GL5703@nodewarrior.org>
References: <20040526003153.GL5703@nodewarrior.org>
Message-ID: <20040526100827.23bf764b.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

On Tue, 25 May 2004 17:31:53 -0700
Chris Palmer <chris at noncombatant.org> wrote:
> Maybe everyone here already knows about this, but I haven't seen
> anything, so I'm posting it.
> 
> http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040524130757328
> 
Indeed, I posted a message to their BB yesterday pointing them to TUHS ;-)

				    j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From cornelius at mail.keck.cx  Wed May 26 22:19:19 2004
From: cornelius at mail.keck.cx (Cornelius Keck)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:19:19 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
References: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
	<51429.24.164.202.240.1085545797.squirrel@24.164.202.240>
Message-ID: <40B48B47.19301B98@mail.keck.cx>

I looked at the Berkeley repository last night, and did not
see some files required to run Sprite directly from disk --
for instance, the Sparc bootimage (sun4.bt or so) seems to
be missing, or I'm overlooking it, in my coffein-deprived
state of mind.

Anyway, googling "sprite cdrom" returns pointers to
www.rdg.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.cdrom.com/pub/cdrom/cdroms/sprite/...
Conveniently, www.rdg... does not resolve. www.mirror.ac.uk, on
the other hand, does, and Sprite seems to be at that very location.
The stuff underneath contains 4.8M of tar'd stuff. I don't have
the CD (would *love* to get a copy, or the ISO), so I can't
check if the contents are identical to the CD (somehow it does
not sound like it), but the stuff on mirror... only contains
a listing of the files on the CD, not the actual CD contents :(

Come to think of it.. I do have a few Sparc 2 machines, with
a few improvements (like 128MB RAM, Weitek PowerUp), and would
like to give Sprite a spin. I'm all for adding the Sprite ISO
to the archive!

- Cornelius



Randy Belk wrote:
> 
> I have looked everywhere for the cdrom of sprite. I saw a book about it a
> long time ago at a bookstore and almost bought it. Some very good theory
> and code was in the book if I remember right.  I don't guess any one would
> have the Walnut Creek cdrom of sprite that they would convert to an ISO
> and make available?
> 
> > Would it make sense to add Sprite to the Unix Archives? To me, yes, it was
> > enough UNIX like although it wasn't ATT or BSD derived and it had many
> > advanced features.
> >
> > I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of DECstations back
> > in
> > 1994-1995 out of the freshly published WalnuCreek CD and I still long for
> > some
> > of it features.
> >
> > The distribution is still available at
> >
> >       http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/
> >
> >                               j
> > --
> >       These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!
> >
> >                           José R. Valverde
> >
> >       De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
> 
> ---------------------------------[ http://www.onlybsd.com/~rbelk/ ]--
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

From lm at bitmover.com  Wed May 26 23:52:46 2004
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 06:52:46 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] Re: TUHS Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <20040526084346.25B791E4B@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <20040526084346.25B791E4B@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <20040526135246.GD30315@work.bitmover.com>

> From: Albert Cahalan <albert at users.sf.net>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD

> > One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD
> > developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes.
> 
> Bitkeeper handles this well. I suspect that Larry McVoy would
> at least be mildly interested in giving advice for such
> a project. Bitkeeper is SCCS-based.

Yes, I'd be interested.  Other than the renames I think we can automate
most of this.

> Bitkeeper also has a superior web interface. You can't beat
> standard unified diff format with a tiny bit of color added.

Thanks.  One day we'll get around to adding sub line highlighting - that 
would be an improvement.

> From: "M. Warner Losh" <imp at bsdimp.com>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD
> 
> If you are going to use a proprietary system, you might as well use
> perforce, which has better branching and file movement support than
> bitkeeper.  But I guess I'm a little biased because I like p4 better
> than bk.

Both biased and incorrect.  There are over 10,000 branches of the linux
kernel floating around in BitKeeper (we know, we counted them) and we 
handle file movement much more nicely than perforce does (we have our
own concept of an inode, a pathname is a attribute of an inode just
like contents are an attribute of the inode - so you can move A to B,
I modify A, you pull from me and the changes apply to B in your tree.)

You can be as biased as you want, I don't want to turn this into a 
SCM discussion, but try and be accurate.  About the only thing that 
p4 does that we don't do is centralized locking; we don't need to
do that in a distributed/replicated system but people sometimes want it.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com

From tuhs at keck.us  Thu May 27 07:36:41 2004
From: tuhs at keck.us (Cornelius Keck)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:36:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405261626510.14090@mail.keck.cx>


Jose,

TNX for parking Sprite on ftp.es.embnet.org!
I just ran into a little problem.. looks as if
the node is either down, or not reachable (at
least from here (== Plano, Texas):

$ ping ftp.es.embnet.org
PING bakalao.cnb.uam.es (150.244.80.6): 56 data bytes
^C
--- bakalao.cnb.uam.es ping statistics ---
9 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
$ ftp ftp.es.embnet.org
[2 minutes later]
^C$

> generated an ISO from the raw CD and am copying now the CD
> contents to disk, which are being made available as
>
>         ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite
> and
>         ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite.iso
>
> as the copying is done. Beware, it is ~530MB.

This goes for both my machine at home, and here at work.
Now, www.es.embnet.org responds fairly fast, so I don't
think that it's the wire across the big pond. Any
ideas?

TNX!

Regards,

Cornelius

From kwall at kurtwerks.com  Thu May 27 09:06:56 2004
From: kwall at kurtwerks.com (Kurt Wall)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:06:56 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405261626510.14090@mail.keck.cx>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405261626510.14090@mail.keck.cx>
Message-ID: <20040526230656.GD12907@kurtwerks.com>

In a 1.0K blaze of typing glory, Cornelius Keck wrote:
> 
> Jose,
> 
> TNX for parking Sprite on ftp.es.embnet.org!
> I just ran into a little problem.. looks as if
> the node is either down, or not reachable (at
> least from here (== Plano, Texas):
> 
> $ ping ftp.es.embnet.org
> PING bakalao.cnb.uam.es (150.244.80.6): 56 data bytes
> ^C
> --- bakalao.cnb.uam.es ping statistics ---
> 9 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> $ ftp ftp.es.embnet.org
> [2 minutes later]
> ^C$

Alas. Same results here:

[kwall]$ ping ftp.es.embnet.org -c 4
PING bakalao.cnb.uam.es (150.244.80.6) 56(84) bytes of data.

--- bakalao.cnb.uam.es ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 3014ms

Kurt
-- 
Darth Vader sleeps with a Teddywookie.

From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Wed May 26 20:01:51 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 12:01:51 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <20040526080506.GE44763@wantadilla.lemis.com>
References: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
	<51429.24.164.202.240.1085545797.squirrel@24.164.202.240>
	<20040526080506.GE44763@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <20040526120151.05068f2f.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

On Wed, 26 May 2004 17:35:06 +0930
"Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
 >>
> >> The distribution is still available at
> >>
> >>       http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/
> >
> > I have looked everywhere for the cdrom of sprite. I saw a book about
> > it a long time ago at a bookstore and almost bought it. Some very
> > good theory and code was in the book if I remember right.  I don't
> > guess any one would have the Walnut Creek cdrom of sprite that they
> > would convert to an ISO and make available?
>
Ditto.

The distribution is still at the above URL. What you will find there
is the contents of the CD.

I got the CD from walnut Creek. Later on, after a position move I looked
back in the web for any updates and came to this URL which after comparison
with the CD turned out to have the same contents.

If you want the CD, you can download the URL tree and burn one yourself, 
or I may convert the CD to an image and put it somewhere if that's too
onerous.

BTW, under Linux I don't care about DD'ing with block sizes CDs. I just
	cp /dev/cdrom image.iso
Oh well, maybe blocking is lost, but the stream of bytes remains, and
blocking is restored when cdrecord burns the image back. I seem to 
remember having done the same in other Unices as well... and even on
VMS.
				j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Thu May 27 00:15:32 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:15:32 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <40B48B47.19301B98@mail.keck.cx>
References: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
	<51429.24.164.202.240.1085545797.squirrel@24.164.202.240>
	<40B48B47.19301B98@mail.keck.cx>
Message-ID: <20040526161532.15593bc6.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

On Wed, 26 May 2004 07:19:19 -0500
Cornelius Keck <cornelius at mail.keck.cx> wrote:
> I looked at the Berkeley repository last night, and did not
> see some files required to run Sprite directly from disk --
> for instance, the Sparc bootimage (sun4.bt or so) seems to
> be missing, or I'm overlooking it, in my coffein-deprived
> state of mind.
> 
Right you are. I fished the URL from my bookmarks and had a cursory
look before posting my e-mail yesterday.

I just had a look at my CD (which casually happened to be on my
bag today at work), and it certainly didn't match the URL contents
as I remembered.

Indeed, something looks weird to me in the contents of the URL,
which is yet another reason to consider having a copy somewhere.
Since I started all this fuss in the first place, I have just 
generated an ISO from the raw CD and am copying now the CD
contents to disk, which are being made available as

	ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite
and
	ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite.iso

as the copying is done. Beware, it is ~530MB.

Sorry for my previous posting suggesting the URL was akin to the CD
contents. It's obvious I was completely wrong and my memory has failed
me (yet once again). I hope posting the CD will make up for the 
mistake.
				j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From tuhs at keck.us  Thu May 27 10:57:27 2004
From: tuhs at keck.us (Cornelius Keck)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:57:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405261626510.14090@mail.keck.cx>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405261626510.14090@mail.keck.cx>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405261954480.15728@mail.keck.cx>

Cool -- embnet's web server allows ftp access:

ckeck at mail$ ftp -a www.es.embnet.org
Connected to bossa-nova.cnb.uam.es.
220-                    Welcome to EMBnet/CNB
220-                    =====================
220-
220-This is the FTP server of the Spanish EMBnet node (EMBnet/CNB).
220-
[...]
230-
230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> cd pub/misc/TUHS
250 CWD command successful.
ftp> ls
200 PORT command successful.
150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for /bin/ls.
total 1067705
drwxr-xr-x    5 root         512 May 26 16:09 sprite
-rw-r--r--    1 root     546664448 May 26 15:44 sprite.iso
226 Transfer complete.
ftp>

I like it. Time to busy out my DSL line ;)

TNX for parking the .iso out there!

Regards,

Cornelius

On Wed, 26 May 2004, Cornelius Keck wrote:

>
> Jose,
>
> TNX for parking Sprite on ftp.es.embnet.org!
> I just ran into a little problem.. looks as if
> the node is either down, or not reachable (at
> least from here (== Plano, Texas):
>
> $ ping ftp.es.embnet.org
> PING bakalao.cnb.uam.es (150.244.80.6): 56 data bytes
> ^C
> --- bakalao.cnb.uam.es ping statistics ---
> 9 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss
> $ ftp ftp.es.embnet.org
> [2 minutes later]
> ^C$
>
> > generated an ISO from the raw CD and am copying now the CD
> > contents to disk, which are being made available as
> >
> >         ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite
> > and
> >         ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite.iso
> >
> > as the copying is done. Beware, it is ~530MB.
>
> This goes for both my machine at home, and here at work.
> Now, www.es.embnet.org responds fairly fast, so I don't
> think that it's the wire across the big pond. Any
> ideas?
>
> TNX!
>
> Regards,
>
> Cornelius
>

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Thu May 27 17:05:02 2004
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:05:02 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <20040526161532.15593bc6.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
References: <20040525104052.08ee2441.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
	<51429.24.164.202.240.1085545797.squirrel@24.164.202.240>
	<40B48B47.19301B98@mail.keck.cx>
	<20040526161532.15593bc6.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <20040527090502.0209a88c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Wed, 26 May 2004 16:15:32 +0200
"José R. Valverde" <jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es> wrote:

> 	ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite.iso
> 
> as the copying is done. Beware, it is ~530MB.
Sugestion: Gzip the ISO image and make a MD5 checksum of it.
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Thu May 27 18:16:02 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:16:02 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <20040526230656.GD12907@kurtwerks.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405261626510.14090@mail.keck.cx>
	<20040526230656.GD12907@kurtwerks.com>
Message-ID: <20040527101602.49237f50.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

On Wed, 26 May 2004 19:06:56 -0400
Kurt Wall <kwall at kurtwerks.com> wrote:
> > TNX for parking Sprite on ftp.es.embnet.org!
> > I just ran into a little problem.. looks as if
> > the node is either down, or not reachable (at
> > least from here (== Plano, Texas):
> > 
>
Should answer. It's up and running... unless someone's made a mess around
here with the firewall. I'll ask our network manager when she arrives this
morning.

Meanwhile, as someone else noticed, www.es.embnet.org should work as well
(it's a different computer but both share disks). Indeed both of them are
waiting to be phased out as soon as the upper level DNS admin approves the
changes.

Sorry for the delay in answering, on this side of the pond it was already
after hours, and this being the last day of Holidays of my brother at my 
home (he's flying now back to America) I didn't look up my e-mail from
home.

				j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Fri May 28 04:17:10 2004
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
Message-ID: <200405271817.i4RIHAs00870@opihi.ucsd.edu>

> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:19:19 -0500
> From: Cornelius Keck <cornelius at mail.keck.cx>
> To: Randy Belk <rbelk at onlybsd.com>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Sprite
> Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
> 
> I looked at the Berkeley repository last night, and did not
> see some files required to run Sprite directly from disk --
> for instance, the Sparc bootimage (sun4.bt or so) seems to
> be missing, or I'm overlooking it, in my coffein-deprived
> state of mind.
> 
> Come to think of it.. I do have a few Sparc 2 machines, with
> a few improvements (like 128MB RAM, Weitek PowerUp), and would
> like to give Sprite a spin. I'm all for adding the Sprite ISO
> to the archive!
> 
> - Cornelius

Jose' R Valverde wrote:

> > >
> > > I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of
> > > DECstations back in 1994-1995 out of the freshly published
> > > WalnuCreek CD and I still long for some of it features.

Let me be confused, and note that a DECstation is not a SPARCstation.

    carl
-- 
    carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                 clowenst at ucsd.edu


From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Fri May 28 05:47:17 2004
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:47:17 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <200405271817.i4RIHAs00870@opihi.ucsd.edu>
References: <200405271817.i4RIHAs00870@opihi.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <20040527214717.003c033c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu> wrote:

> > > > I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of
> > > > DECstations back in 1994-1995 out of the freshly published
> > > > WalnuCreek CD and I still long for some of it features.
> Let me be confused, and note that a DECstation is not a SPARCstation.
There where several ports: Sun3, Sun4 / SPARC, DECstation, SPUR, Sequent
Symmetry at least. Even mixed architecture clusters where supported. See
http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/retrospective.html

Hmm. I have some DECstation 3100, a 5000/240 and some SPARC 1+, 2, IPX
machines around... ;-)
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


From tuhs at keck.us  Fri May 28 14:06:41 2004
From: tuhs at keck.us (Cornelius Keck)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:06:41 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <20040527214717.003c033c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
References: <200405271817.i4RIHAs00870@opihi.ucsd.edu>
 <20040527214717.003c033c.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0405272303440.28482@mail.keck.cx>

Now that you mention that...

I have two or three Britelite IPCs stashed away (that's more
or less a Sparc 2, or IPC, in a "luggable" formfactor, fold-up
LCD display with a whooping 640*480, even takes SBUS cards.
It's kinda portable, which means that the way to/from work becomes
your work-out. I wonder if Sprite runs on those as well. Gotta
fire that CDBurner up. That will take a bit. There is some bad
weather out there, and I think I heard the notorious phrase
"tornado warning" again :(

On Thu, 27 May 2004, Jochen Kunz wrote:

> On Thu, 27 May 2004 11:17:10 -0700 (PDT)
> Carl Lowenstein <cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > > > > I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of
> > > > > DECstations back in 1994-1995 out of the freshly published
> > > > > WalnuCreek CD and I still long for some of it features.
> > Let me be confused, and note that a DECstation is not a SPARCstation.
> There where several ports: Sun3, Sun4 / SPARC, DECstation, SPUR, Sequent
> Symmetry at least. Even mixed architecture clusters where supported. See
> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/retrospective.html
>
> Hmm. I have some DECstation 3100, a 5000/240 and some SPARC 1+, 2, IPX
> machines around... ;-)
>

From arnold at skeeve.com  Sun May 30 23:19:39 2004
From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:19:39 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
Message-ID: <200405301319.i4UDJdOf004920@skeeve.com>

> There where several ports: Sun3, Sun4 / SPARC, DECstation, SPUR, Sequent
> Symmetry at least. Even mixed architecture clusters where supported. See
> http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/retrospective.html

Wasn't the Symmetry a 386 based system?  Could Sprite be "revived" for the
modern PC?  Just wondering ...

Arnold

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Mon May 31 01:46:21 2004
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:46:21 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <200405301319.i4UDJdOf004920@skeeve.com>
References: <200405301319.i4UDJdOf004920@skeeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040530174621.3fea7782.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:19:39 -0400
Aharon Robbins <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:

> > There where several ports: Sun3, Sun4 / SPARC, DECstation, SPUR,
> > Sequent Symmetry at least. Even mixed architecture clusters where
> > supported. See
> > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/retrospective.html
> Wasn't the Symmetry a 386 based system? 
Yes.

> Could Sprite be "revived" for the modern PC?  Just wondering ...
Most likely no. The Sequent Symmetry machines had only one thing in
common with a PeeCee: The Intel 80386DX chip. Everything else was custom
Sequent architecture. 

And by the way: I have hands on experience with a 8 CPU Sequent Symmetry
S27. It cost over 900000 DM (today about 500000 US$) in 1989 and had a
much slower disk and network interface as the Sun 3/260. It was an
overpriced snail.
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Mon May 31 08:16:33 2004
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:16:33 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <20040530174621.3fea7782.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
Message-ID: <001301c44693$c5961260$6401a8c0@who5>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Okay, now this begs the question: Can the VAX Station boot code which
is targeted to that specific system, be rewritten to accommodate the
VAX processor that SIMH emulates? I am not a good C programmer, just a
whatever comes before that. I can only offer these suggestions, and
ask these questions. 

For that matter, do any of us have any of the SUN hardware that I do
know Sprite ran on? Or that VAX Station? For me, its no to all three.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi

> -----Original Message-----
> From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] On
> Behalf Of Jochen Kunz
> Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:46 AM
> To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] Sprite
> 
> On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:19:39 -0400
> Aharon Robbins <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:
> 
> > > There where several ports: Sun3, Sun4 / SPARC, DECstation, SPUR,
> > > Sequent Symmetry at least. Even mixed architecture clusters
where
> > > supported. See
> > > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/retrospective.html
> > Wasn't the Symmetry a 386 based system?
> Yes.
> 
> > Could Sprite be "revived" for the modern PC?  Just wondering ...
> Most likely no. The Sequent Symmetry machines had only one thing in
> common with a PeeCee: The Intel 80386DX chip. Everything else was
custom
> Sequent architecture.
> 
> And by the way: I have hands on experience with a 8 CPU Sequent
Symmetry
> S27. It cost over 900000 DM (today about 500000 US$) in 1989 and had
a
> much slower disk and network interface as the Sun 3/260. It was an
> overpriced snail.
> --
> 
> 
> tschüß,
>        Jochen
> 
> Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Mon May 31 17:16:03 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:16:03 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <200405301319.i4UDJdOf004920@skeeve.com>
References: <200405301319.i4UDJdOf004920@skeeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040531091603.4d730f68.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:19:39 -0400
Aharon Robbins <arnold at skeeve.com> wrote:
 
> Wasn't the Symmetry a 386 based system?  Could Sprite be "revived" for the
> modern PC?  Just wondering ...
> 
Would it make sense? Other than for historic reasons I mean.

Nowadays we have Linux, well supported, widely spread, with logging file
systems and with at least three free process migration extensions (Mosix, 
OpenMosix and OpenSSI) plus Bproc. It would make more sense to pursue a
merge of these extensions in the main kernel.

Truly, Sprite would be totally unencumbered (i.e. possibly free of SCO-like
attacks) but that wouldn't preclude any deep-pocket to attempt spurious or
unfunded attacks to spread FUD if they felt they could capitalize on them.

It's true too that Sprite code (to me) is more elegant, but I have concerns
how would it look after ten years of community development and without
Ousterhout's leadership.

Not less true, having a microkernel based implementation is tempting, but
I doubt people is ready for uKernels with so much marketing pressure to make 
them believe that they need to squeeze every single cycle and buy new CPUs 
every so. It takes time and experience with several *different* systems, 
algorithms and architectures to realize that a 10% linear speedup is most
often a meaningless achievement.

And to finish, the multi-architecture single-system image is still far
from most clusters, and noteworthy in itself, but I'm sure it would come if
more people could land their hands on more than cheap PCs for playing.

I certainly long for Sprite and would have loved to continue using it. Had
it been distributed two years earlier it might have become 'the' open system
instead of Linux. But so might have BSD had it not been for the ATT lawsuit.
Opening it might have produced the extensions and maintenance that the
original research team couldn't provide, but at the time few could imagine 
what the Internet community was able to achieve.

That said, I have also pondered that same question many times, but lack the
time or resources to give it a try (sigh).

				    j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Mon May 31 20:26:24 2004
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (Jochen Kunz)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:26:24 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
In-Reply-To: <001301c44693$c5961260$6401a8c0@who5>
References: <20040530174621.3fea7782.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>
	<001301c44693$c5961260$6401a8c0@who5>
Message-ID: <20040531122624.0cc5046d.jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On Sun, 30 May 2004 18:16:33 -0400
"Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Okay, now this begs the question: Can the VAX Station boot code which
> is targeted to that specific system, be rewritten to accommodate the
> VAX processor that SIMH emulates? 
??? VAXstation? Sprite runs on DECstations. DECstations are not VAXen.
They are MIPS based Unix workstations. An entirely different
architecture.
-- 


tschüß,
       Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


From arnold at skeeve.com  Mon May 31 20:45:11 2004
From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 06:45:11 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite
Message-ID: <200405311045.i4VAjBIb011017@skeeve.com>

I think you're confused.  The DECstation was made by DEC, but used a MIPS
processor, not a VAX.  SIMH won't be able to do anything with it, although
there are likely other MIPS simulators out there to be found.

Arnold

> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Subject: RE: [TUHS] Sprite
> Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:16:33 -0400
>
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Okay, now this begs the question: Can the VAX Station boot code which
> is targeted to that specific system, be rewritten to accommodate the
> VAX processor that SIMH emulates? I am not a good C programmer, just a
> whatever comes before that. I can only offer these suggestions, and
> ask these questions.
>
> For that matter, do any of us have any of the SUN hardware that I do
> know Sprite ran on? Or that VAX Station? For me, its no to all three.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net

