From lm at mcvoy.com  Thu Jul  2 13:30:17 2015
From: lm at mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 20:30:17 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
In-Reply-To: <20150630033718.GD20453@mcvoy.com>
References: <20150629222547.E81011DE391@lignose.oclsc.org>
 <20150630033718.GD20453@mcvoy.com>
Message-ID: <20150702033017.GL32497@mcvoy.com>

I'm trying to put notes together for Greg's service tomorrow, these are 
rough, if anyone wants to suggest fixes I'd love that.  Needs to by 
10AM PST, the service is at 11AM.

--lm

The theme is Greg was a ninja, I'm only just realizing it.  
I've got lots of stories but they all involve me so if I'm taking up too
much time or boring people all I need to see is one person waving their
hand like "move it along" and I'll wrap it up.  I can wittle it down to
just two stories but here is the list.

Ninja Greg does music (have to do this one, I have pictures).
Ninja Greg bitch slaps the government with Larry
Ninja Greg takes Larry to the NSA, Larry ends up staring at pissed Marines
Ninja Greg gets Larry a wife
Happy Greg lifts a log (have to do this one, I have pictures)

Ninja Greg does music
---------------------

This is a funny story, I moved to the Santa Cruz mountains and my buddy
Bob took one look at my place, and the new tractor with a backhoe and
said "we're doing the pig roast at your place".  Bob did a pig roast
when he could, which was when one of his friends was doing landscaping
and they could dig a hole.  I've got 15 acres, a hole for the fire and
the pig was no problem.

It was mostly Bob's party at my place but I got my invites out, Greg
was on the list, and that got me thinking lets have some music.  I 
put it out there that we should have some music, I knew Greg was down,
Kennan plays guitar and he was down, and this guy named Andy said he
could do keyboards.  Cool, we have a band.

The guys show up, Greg sets up his drums, Kennan plugs into an amp,
and Andy sets up his keyboard.  Greg sounds great, duh, Kennan is
tuning up and sounds great, Andy has a keyboard.

They start playing and it is obvious that Andy is out of his league.
Greg is world class, Kennan doesn't suck.

So here is the first ninja move.  I don't remember what Greg said, I
asked my wife and all she could say was "he was so smooth".  Ninja Greg
said something like "can I show you something?" and slid in behind
the keyboard.  And things started sounding good.

My buddy Otis stepped up to play the drums, I just learned that that
was the first time he played with a group.  He wasn't great but he 
could hold a beat and it was fine.

Ninja Greg bitch slaps the government with Larry
------------------------------------------------

When I worked for Greg one of the big projects was a government thing
where they were imaging the earth.  This was roughly 1994 and on a clear
day they could resolve stuff from a satellite to 3 inches.  So a really
big newspaper headline they could read from space.

It was a big project, Cray was in it, DEC was in it, and SGI was in it.
SGI had the storage and data transfer part (more about the data transfer
later).

I was super into performance at that part of my life and Greg knew that.

I've always told this story as it was just me but looking back on it,
I see the hand of Ninja Greg.

I had done a pile of performance work, figured out that the disk drives
had a problem, made Seagate redesign their drive mounts.  Whatever,
that doesn't matter.  What matters is Greg was negotiating the deal,
SGI needed to get paid, and this is just me looking back on it but it
all makes sense, he sent me into a meeting.

I should mention that I was a super cocky engineer, I was at the top
of my game and I didn't really like the people that were working on
this contract, they seemed stupid to me.  I should also mention that
I loved to stake and at SGI there were lots of places to strap on some
rollerblades and go skate.

Somehow Greg sent me into this meeting.  As it so happened I was on
rollerblades and I was fresh off of figuring out the that the disk drives
had a problem.

I fly into the meeting, look at the presentation, say "that won't work"
and go grab a sandwich and was heading out and they say "why not" and
I go into a pile of actual data, factual data (they had nothing but
simulations) and it is super clear that I'm right and they are wrong.

I've always thought that meeting was all me but looking back on it,
I think Greg knew exactly what he had, he sent me in when he needed
to remind everyone that SGI had a clue, it was some Ninja moves.

Ninja Greg takes Larry to the NSA, Larry ends up staring at pissed Marines
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the middle of that program to image the earth the government realized
that they liked me.  So they wanted me to get security clearance and Greg
said do it so I was going down that path.

Those of you who know me will laugh at the idea that I could keep my mouth
shut (I can but there has to be a really really good reason).  I went about
80% of the way through the process and realized this was all for them, there
was nothing in it for me, it was so they could tell me stuff and I could help
them but I'd have to shut my mouth.  For stupid reasons.

So I balked and the NSA put pressure on Greg to bring me around.  Greg knew
that I liked smart people, I'm so-so smart, I like being around people who
are a lot smarter than I am.  His way of getting me to complete the clearance
process was to take me to the NSA and introduce me to some scary smart people.

An aside: this was a long time ago, mid 1990's.  The NSA that I saw then is 
nothing like the NSA of today.  They used to have ethics, that seems to be
gone.

Anyhoo, we get out to Fort Meade and check in and Greg tells me "stay close,
they don't like it if you wander around".  Yeah, yeah, Greg, whatever.

We were walking down a hallway and I see something through a doorway and
go "that's cool" and I pause to take a look.  

I'm old so maybe I'm making this up, but my memory is that I had three guys
with rifles pointing at my face, and those guys were ninjas.  I never saw
them, they just kind of appeared and had me on the ground.

Too long, don't read: if Greg says stay close, stay close.

Ninja Greg gets Larry a wife
----------------------------

I did some work for SGI to move data around really fast.  I can't claim
any credit for this because people before me had done all the hard
work (page flippin and wire speed TCP on HIPPI).  Their work was 99%
of the effort, all I did was realize we can move data fast through the
file system and we can move data fast through network, how about I plug
these two big firehoses together and now we can move data fast through
the network file system.

What I did was very small but it was useful and SGI wanted to ship it.

So how did Greg get me a wife?  I have no idea if he intended this or not
but I was a hot commodity at that time and I had built something.  Greg 
could have found someone else to do the grunt work to move it out the 
door but he sent me to go see Beth.  Looking back on it now I really 
wonder if he saw something that Beth and I didn't.

Whatever, Beth shipped all software, I had to go meet her, had to go 
to the patch meeting where she said "Oh, good, Larry's here, we'll
talk about his thing" and I shot back "we're not talking about my
thing in this meeting".  Silly me, she did want to talk about that
and we ended up getting married and have two great kids.  If Greg
did that then go him.

Happy Greg lifts a log
----------------------

Greg and I talked after I left SGI, mostly about woodworking because we
were both into that.  But we didn't talk as much as we should have given
how close we were.

About a year ago Greg wanted to come up and chat.  He felt like he might
be beating the cancer that was the result of the treatment of the cancer
he had 22 years earlier, he was thinking about buying a place up in the
mountains like I did.  

He also wanted to geek out.  He and I have very similar views of the 
industry we are in, we are both very old school.  We sat around on my
back deck and talked geek stuff.  His mind was 100%, I wish I was that
sharp.

We also talked about his new cancer, he told me how he couldn't eat
anything because his throat was toast, he was super happy that the
docs let him eat tiny chunks of ice, but that was it.  Everything
else went into him through a hole, he more or less pumped baby food
into himself.  I watched him do it, he just shrugged and said you
do what ya gotta do.

I have a thing, I do this for anyone who is not 100% or doesn't feel
strong, I put them on my excavator.  I told Greg when he wanted to 
come up and chat, cool, but you have to drive excavator.

He sort of wound down and wanted to leave, 3 hours of geek talk will
do that, and I said you have to drive the excavator.  He was not 
thrilled but I got him on it.  It's like that game where you try and
pick up stuff and if you pick it up you get a prize.  Except the 
excavator wants you to win and the thing you pick up is a 1000 pound 
log.

I got him on it, he got frustrated, but then he got it.  I've got 
pictures and my all time favorite picture of Greg is that grin he
sported when he got the log.  That's Greg.  I love that grin.



From dave at horsfall.org  Thu Jul  2 15:31:50 2015
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 15:31:50 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
In-Reply-To: <20150702033017.GL32497@mcvoy.com>
References: <20150629222547.E81011DE391@lignose.oclsc.org>
 <20150630033718.GD20453@mcvoy.com> <20150702033017.GL32497@mcvoy.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507021519190.867@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Wed, 1 Jul 2015, Larry McVoy wrote:

> I'm trying to put notes together for Greg's service tomorrow, these are 
> rough, if anyone wants to suggest fixes I'd love that.  Needs to by 10AM 
> PST, the service is at 11AM.

OK, from my Toastmasters experiences (DTM, senior executive, etc), here's 
some feedback...

> The theme is Greg was a ninja, I'm only just realizing it.  I've got 
> lots of stories but they all involve me so if I'm taking up too much 
> time or boring people all I need to see is one person waving their hand 
> like "move it along" and I'll wrap it up.  I can whittle it down to just 
> two stories but here is the list.

Find out how much time you have, and rehearse them in front of someone 
with a stopwatch and time cards (in TM, green means OK so far i.e. past 
the minimum time, yellow means start winding down, red means sit down, 
because in TM contests you are disqualified if you get the red).  You'll 
find that people have no idea for how long they can talk, once they get 
carried away...

> Ninja Greg does music (have to do this one, I have pictures).

Agreed (and being a muso I'd like to see those pix myself).

> Ninja Greg bitch slaps the government with Larry

Possibly not...  More about you than Greg.

> Ninja Greg takes Larry to the NSA, Larry ends up staring at pissed Marines

Ditto...

> Ninja Greg gets Larry a wife

Keep it if there's time i.e. run it last.  A short presentation is more 
memorable than a long one.

> Happy Greg lifts a log (have to do this one, I have pictures)

Definitely (I saw the pix).

-- 
Dave Horsfall  (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
http://www.horsfall.org/leapsecond.webm - The talking clock for 2015 (9MB)


From clemc at ccc.com  Fri Jul  3 00:48:50 2015
From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 10:48:50 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507021519190.867@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <20150629222547.E81011DE391@lignose.oclsc.org>
 <20150630033718.GD20453@mcvoy.com>
 <20150702033017.GL32497@mcvoy.com>
 <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507021519190.867@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <CAC20D2N6BN+y2tL7XUSLaXU9uywDKv9LWbLSdLMCWyMg2PmVeg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Dave on his comments and will add a couple of more if you
don't mind.
Timing and order is important, as my sportscaster brother points out, also
engage.  I'm not as good as he is at this, but looking at the audience and
trying to make them feel you are talking to them particularly for each of
these stories will make them even more powerful.  So Dave's comment about
practice is spot on.

But for timing and order, I might rethink the sequence you have might be
more effective if you change them a little.   The last one might be a good
one to lead with it. Say something like one of my most wonderful
remembrance was a recent one, his expressions and reaction we 100% Greg and
I'm lucky to use to anchor our relationship....  then tell that story.
 that will get people's attention.  Then build up with some of the others
over your life with him and close with the story of his most important
legacy for you being your family.

My thoughts - do wish I could make it, but I think it's not possible.

Clem



On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Jul 2015, Larry McVoy wrote:
>
> > I'm trying to put notes together for Greg's service tomorrow, these are
> > rough, if anyone wants to suggest fixes I'd love that.  Needs to by 10AM
> > PST, the service is at 11AM.
>
> OK, from my Toastmasters experiences (DTM, senior executive, etc), here's
> some feedback...
>
> > The theme is Greg was a ninja, I'm only just realizing it.  I've got
> > lots of stories but they all involve me so if I'm taking up too much
> > time or boring people all I need to see is one person waving their hand
> > like "move it along" and I'll wrap it up.  I can whittle it down to just
> > two stories but here is the list.
>
> Find out how much time you have, and rehearse them in front of someone
> with a stopwatch and time cards (in TM, green means OK so far i.e. past
> the minimum time, yellow means start winding down, red means sit down,
> because in TM contests you are disqualified if you get the red).  You'll
> find that people have no idea for how long they can talk, once they get
> carried away...
>
> > Ninja Greg does music (have to do this one, I have pictures).
>
> Agreed (and being a muso I'd like to see those pix myself).
>
> > Ninja Greg bitch slaps the government with Larry
>
> Possibly not...  More about you than Greg.
>
> > Ninja Greg takes Larry to the NSA, Larry ends up staring at pissed
> Marines
>
> Ditto...
>
> > Ninja Greg gets Larry a wife
>
> Keep it if there's time i.e. run it last.  A short presentation is more
> memorable than a long one.
>
> > Happy Greg lifts a log (have to do this one, I have pictures)
>
> Definitely (I saw the pix).
>
> --
> Dave Horsfall  (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
> http://www.horsfall.org/leapsecond.webm - The talking clock for 2015 (9MB)
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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From lm at mcvoy.com  Fri Jul  3 01:15:19 2015
From: lm at mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 08:15:19 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507021519190.867@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <20150629222547.E81011DE391@lignose.oclsc.org>
 <20150630033718.GD20453@mcvoy.com>
 <20150702033017.GL32497@mcvoy.com>
 <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507021519190.867@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <20150702151519.GO32497@mcvoy.com>

Thanks for the feedback, all good points.  I don't know how much time 
I have, it will depend on who is at the service.  So I'm inclined to
do the music one and the log one and then let someone else talk.
If there seems like there is too much dead time then I'll get up
again and fill in the other ones.

The music pics are here:

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/photos/2006/06/index.html

I printed

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/photos/2006/06/177.html

and

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/photos/2006/06/191.html

as well as the log pics.  I cropped the one of him smiling, it's perfect.

Thanks for your feedback.

--lm

On Thu, Jul 02, 2015 at 03:31:50PM +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Jul 2015, Larry McVoy wrote:
> 
> > I'm trying to put notes together for Greg's service tomorrow, these are 
> > rough, if anyone wants to suggest fixes I'd love that.  Needs to by 10AM 
> > PST, the service is at 11AM.
> 
> OK, from my Toastmasters experiences (DTM, senior executive, etc), here's 
> some feedback...
> 
> > The theme is Greg was a ninja, I'm only just realizing it.  I've got 
> > lots of stories but they all involve me so if I'm taking up too much 
> > time or boring people all I need to see is one person waving their hand 
> > like "move it along" and I'll wrap it up.  I can whittle it down to just 
> > two stories but here is the list.
> 
> Find out how much time you have, and rehearse them in front of someone 
> with a stopwatch and time cards (in TM, green means OK so far i.e. past 
> the minimum time, yellow means start winding down, red means sit down, 
> because in TM contests you are disqualified if you get the red).  You'll 
> find that people have no idea for how long they can talk, once they get 
> carried away...
> 
> > Ninja Greg does music (have to do this one, I have pictures).
> 
> Agreed (and being a muso I'd like to see those pix myself).
> 
> > Ninja Greg bitch slaps the government with Larry
> 
> Possibly not...  More about you than Greg.
> 
> > Ninja Greg takes Larry to the NSA, Larry ends up staring at pissed Marines
> 
> Ditto...
> 
> > Ninja Greg gets Larry a wife
> 
> Keep it if there's time i.e. run it last.  A short presentation is more 
> memorable than a long one.
> 
> > Happy Greg lifts a log (have to do this one, I have pictures)
> 
> Definitely (I saw the pix).
> 
> -- 
> Dave Horsfall  (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
> http://www.horsfall.org/leapsecond.webm - The talking clock for 2015 (9MB)
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs



From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Jul  3 14:50:56 2015
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 14:50:56 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
In-Reply-To: <20150702151519.GO32497@mcvoy.com>
References: <20150629222547.E81011DE391@lignose.oclsc.org>
 <20150630033718.GD20453@mcvoy.com> <20150702033017.GL32497@mcvoy.com>
 <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507021519190.867@aneurin.horsfall.org>
 <20150702151519.GO32497@mcvoy.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507031433470.867@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Thu, 2 Jul 2015, Larry McVoy wrote:

> The music pics are here:
> 
> http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/photos/2006/06/index.html

I love that Fender Stratocaster!  Taste, pure taste...  One of the finest 
guitars ever made, along with the Telecaster, the Precision Bass, etc.

And of course, the Gibson Les Paul, ES-50, SG, Firebird...  Yes, I'm a bit 
of an axe-man myself :-)

-- 
Dave Horsfall  (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
http://www.horsfall.org/leapsecond.webm - The talking clock for 2015 (9MB)


From asbesto at freaknet.org  Sat Jul  4 04:17:30 2015
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 18:17:30 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] We've lost Greg Chesson
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1506291728540.96902@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1506291728540.96902@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <20150703181730.GC9116@freaknet.org>

Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 05:30:16PM +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:

> Haven't found any more info...

Very sorry for that :(

-- 
[ ::::::::: 73 de IW9HGS : http://freaknet.org/asbesto ::::::::::: ]
[ Freaknet Medialab :: Poetry Hacklab : Dyne.Org :: Radio Cybernet ]
[ NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LETTERE ACCENTATE  -  NON MANDARMI ALLEGATI ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC and SPAM ]



From dscherrer at solar.stanford.edu  Fri Jul 17 01:48:47 2015
From: dscherrer at solar.stanford.edu (Deborah Scherrer)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 08:48:47 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
Message-ID: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>

Peter Salus noted there was workshop in Newport, RI, in 1984 concerning 
"Distributed UNIX." The report on “Distributed UNIX” by Veigh S. Meer [a 
transparent pseudonym] appeared in /;login:/ 9.5 (November 1984), pp. 
5-9. So who was "Veigh S. Meer"? The affiliation says "Bellcore," but 
who was there in 1984?    Peter's first thought was Peter Langston.

Any ideas?

Debbie
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From cowan at ccil.org  Fri Jul 17 06:17:39 2015
From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 16:17:39 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
In-Reply-To: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>
References: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>

Scripsit Deborah Scherrer:

> Peter Salus noted there was workshop in Newport, RI, in 1984 concerning
> "Distributed UNIX." The report on "Distributed UNIX" by Veigh S. Meer [a
> transparent pseudonym] appeared in /;login:/ 9.5 (November 1984), pp.
> 5-9. So who was "Veigh S. Meer"? The affiliation says "Bellcore," but
> who was there in 1984?  Peter's first thought was Peter Langston.

The punning pseudonym, the complaint at the end that Unix and C are dead
and nothing is even on the horizon to replace them, and the general snarky
tone suggest to me that it's Rob "Mark V. Shaney" Pike.  In that case,
the affiliation with Bellcore is a blind ("not Goodyear, Goodrich").

-- 
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan at ccil.org
All Gaul is divided into three parts: the part that cooks with lard and goose
fat, the part that cooks with olive oil, and the part that cooks with butter.
  --David Chessler




From dscherrer at solar.stanford.edu  Fri Jul 17 06:27:30 2015
From: dscherrer at solar.stanford.edu (Deborah Scherrer)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 13:27:30 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
In-Reply-To: <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>
References: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>
 <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>
Message-ID: <55A813B2.4040407@solar.stanford.edu>

Good logic....I bet you're right.
Debbie

On 7/16/15 1:17 PM, John Cowan wrote:
> Scripsit Deborah Scherrer:
>
>> Peter Salus noted there was workshop in Newport, RI, in 1984 concerning
>> "Distributed UNIX." The report on "Distributed UNIX" by Veigh S. Meer [a
>> transparent pseudonym] appeared in /;login:/ 9.5 (November 1984), pp.
>> 5-9. So who was "Veigh S. Meer"? The affiliation says "Bellcore," but
>> who was there in 1984?  Peter's first thought was Peter Langston.
> The punning pseudonym, the complaint at the end that Unix and C are dead
> and nothing is even on the horizon to replace them, and the general snarky
> tone suggest to me that it's Rob "Mark V. Shaney" Pike.  In that case,
> the affiliation with Bellcore is a blind ("not Goodyear, Goodrich").
>




From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Jul 17 07:04:47 2015
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 07:04:47 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
In-Reply-To: <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>
References: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>
 <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507170701060.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>

On Thu, 16 Jul 2015, John Cowan wrote:

> The punning pseudonym, the complaint at the end that Unix and C are dead 
> and nothing is even on the horizon to replace them, and the general 
> snarky tone suggest to me that it's Rob "Mark V. Shaney" Pike.  In that 
> case, the affiliation with Bellcore is a blind ("not Goodyear, 
> Goodrich").

Call me slow, but can someone please explain the joke?  If it's American 
humo[u]r, then remember that I'm British/Australian...

(Yes, I'm familiar with Mark V. Shaney, and have even used it.)

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
   "The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of
roughly a factor of two per year." -- G.Moore, Electronics, Vol 38 No 8, 1965


From cowan at ccil.org  Fri Jul 17 07:15:02 2015
From: cowan at ccil.org (John Cowan)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 17:15:02 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507170701060.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>
 <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>
 <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507170701060.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <4a3eb197576c3793420c2a2dbf9eb892.squirrel@www.ccil.org>

Scripsit Dave Horsfall:

> On Thu, 16 Jul 2015, John Cowan wrote:
>
>> The punning pseudonym,
>
> Call me slow, but can someone please explain the joke?  If it's American
> humo[u]r, then remember that I'm British/Australian...

It represents a phonetic respelling of Yiddish "vey iz mir", corresponding
etymologically to German "Weh ist mir" and English "woe is me", but more
idiomatically to "Oh, no!", expressing despair.

-- 




From norman at oclsc.org  Fri Jul 17 08:21:30 2015
From: norman at oclsc.org (Norman Wilson)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:21:30 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
Message-ID: <1437085295.5827.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org>

Dave Horsfall:

  Call me slow, but can someone please explain the joke?  If it's American 
  humo[u]r, then remember that I'm British/Australian...

There is no such thing as American humour, because Yanks don't know
how to spell.

They can't get the wood either.

Norman Wilson
(reformed Yank)
Toronto ON


From cowan at mercury.ccil.org  Fri Jul 17 08:29:47 2015
From: cowan at mercury.ccil.org (John Cowan)
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2015 18:29:47 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
In-Reply-To: <1437085295.5827.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org>
References: <1437085295.5827.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org>
Message-ID: <20150716222947.GH18394@mercury.ccil.org>

Norman Wilson scripsit:

> They can't get the wood either.

Nor can we take the piss.

> Norman Wilson
> (reformed Yank)

"There are two kinds of Yanks, those who know nothing about Canada,
and those who don't care either."  --me talking to Robert McNeil at a
lecture by him

-- 
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan at ccil.org
At times of peril or dubitation,
Perform swift circular ambulation,
With loud and high-pitched ululation.


From grog at lemis.com  Fri Jul 17 09:31:46 2015
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 09:31:46 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507170701060.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>
 <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>
 <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507170701060.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <20150716233146.GE18385@eureka.lemis.com>

On Friday, 17 July 2015 at  7:04:47 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2015, John Cowan wrote:
>
>> The punning pseudonym, the complaint at the end that Unix and C are dead
>> and nothing is even on the horizon to replace them, and the general
>> snarky tone suggest to me that it's Rob "Mark V. Shaney" Pike.  In that
>> case, the affiliation with Bellcore is a blind ("not Goodyear,
>> Goodrich").
>
> Call me slow, but can someone please explain the joke?  If it's American
> humo[u]r, then remember that I'm British/Australian...

Thanks, Dave.  I didn't want to ask.

Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft MUA reports
problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
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From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Jul 17 15:25:01 2015
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2015 15:25:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507170701060.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <55A7D25F.3050907@solar.stanford.edu>
 <ec16a26dcf14cac3dd24f7ec6da6e1a5.squirrel@www.ccil.org>
 <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507170701060.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507171524220.92212@aneurin.horsfall.org>

Thanks, all; Yiddish is not exactly one of my strong points...

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
   "The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of
roughly a factor of two per year." -- G.Moore, Electronics, Vol 38 No 8, 1965


From cubexyz at gmail.com  Sun Jul 19 03:43:20 2015
From: cubexyz at gmail.com (Mark Longridge)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 13:43:20 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CADxT5N546N6QCTS5yNiseoooNu-U0+yLNEW__+odd5rtvfzgJA@mail.gmail.com>

I came across some Unix files in v7add such as bs.ps for the Bell logo
and ms.pic (described as Figure 1 for msmacros).

http://www.maxhost.org/other/ms.pic

I was wondering if there was some viewer or conversion program so we
could look at pic files from this era?

Mark


From lm at mcvoy.com  Sun Jul 19 03:53:23 2015
From: lm at mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 10:53:23 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <CADxT5N546N6QCTS5yNiseoooNu-U0+yLNEW__+odd5rtvfzgJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CADxT5N546N6QCTS5yNiseoooNu-U0+yLNEW__+odd5rtvfzgJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20150718175323.GE18512@mcvoy.com>

Apply these changes and you can do 

gpic ms.pic | grep > PS
gv PS

--- ms.pic      2015-07-18 10:39:27.000000000 -0700
+++ ms.fixed    2015-07-18 10:52:04.110328358 -0700
@@ -2,11 +2,11 @@
 lineht=0.25
 boxht=0.25
 boxwid=0.25
-ST: down arrow
+ST: arrow down
 arrow right then down
 box invis "RP"
 arrow down
-left line
+line left
 X: line to ST
 arrow down at X
 box invis "TL"

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 01:43:20PM -0400, Mark Longridge wrote:
> I came across some Unix files in v7add such as bs.ps for the Bell logo
> and ms.pic (described as Figure 1 for msmacros).
> 
> http://www.maxhost.org/other/ms.pic
> 
> I was wondering if there was some viewer or conversion program so we
> could look at pic files from this era?
> 
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 


From wkt at tuhs.org  Sun Jul 19 10:57:18 2015
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 10:57:18 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20150718175323.GE18512@mcvoy.com>
References: <CADxT5N546N6QCTS5yNiseoooNu-U0+yLNEW__+odd5rtvfzgJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150718175323.GE18512@mcvoy.com>
Message-ID: <20150719005718.GA13861@www.oztivo.net>

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 10:53:23AM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> Apply these changes and you can do 
> 
> gpic ms.pic | grep > PS

gpic ms.pic | groff > PS

Took me a while to work out the empty grep! Obviously your brain
sent groff and your fingers auto-corrected to grep as your fingers
use that command more :-)

Cheers, Warren


From lm at mcvoy.com  Sun Jul 19 11:13:41 2015
From: lm at mcvoy.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 18:13:41 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20150719005718.GA13861@www.oztivo.net>
References: <CADxT5N546N6QCTS5yNiseoooNu-U0+yLNEW__+odd5rtvfzgJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150718175323.GE18512@mcvoy.com>
 <20150719005718.GA13861@www.oztivo.net>
Message-ID: <20150719011341.GB10594@mcvoy.com>

On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 10:57:18AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 10:53:23AM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
> > Apply these changes and you can do 
> > 
> > gpic ms.pic | grep > PS
> 
> gpic ms.pic | groff > PS
> 
> Took me a while to work out the empty grep! Obviously your brain
> sent groff and your fingers auto-corrected to grep as your fingers
> use that command more :-)

Sorry about that, you are right.  Shame on me.  And it was in the morning
so I can't blame it on a glass of wine or something.
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	     lm at mcvoy.com             http://www.mcvoy.com/lm 


From milov at cs.uwlax.edu  Sun Jul 19 11:19:51 2015
From: milov at cs.uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic)
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2015 20:19:51 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20150719011341.GB10594@mcvoy.com>
References: <CADxT5N546N6QCTS5yNiseoooNu-U0+yLNEW__+odd5rtvfzgJA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20150718175323.GE18512@mcvoy.com> <20150719005718.GA13861@www.oztivo.net>
 <20150719011341.GB10594@mcvoy.com>
Message-ID: <E4B0FE2E-B455-42D2-8CD9-E3CDC9754662@cs.uwlax.edu>


> On Jul 18, 2015, at 8:13 PM, Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 10:57:18AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 10:53:23AM -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
>>> Apply these changes and you can do 
>>> 
>>> gpic ms.pic | grep > PS
>> 
>> gpic ms.pic | groff > PS
>> 
>> Took me a while to work out the empty grep! Obviously your brain
>> sent groff and your fingers auto-corrected to grep as your fingers
>> use that command more :-)
> 
> Sorry about that, you are right.  Shame on me.  And it was in the morning
> so I can't blame it on a glass of wine or something.

You can always claim insufficient coffee intake.

 - Milo



From tuhs at cuzuco.com  Mon Jul 20 06:55:32 2015
From: tuhs at cuzuco.com (Brian Walden)
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2015 16:55:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [TUHS] (no subject)
Message-ID: <201507192055.t6JKtWhZ015374@cuzuco.com>


I authored those files so I could render the Seventh Edition manuals
as PDF in 1998 (long after I had departed the Labs). As pic did not
exist yet (Kernighan had not written it) there were never any
original pic files for these documents. I do not know what 1127 was
doing to publish diagrams at the time.

The Bell logo I did directly in postscript so \(bs would render. The logo
was originally it's own custom "character" just like an A, B or C, on the
phototypesetter's optical font wheel.

You can see what they look liked from the v7 PDF manuals --

In Volume 2A (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2a.pdf)
bs.ps is on variety of pages such as 129, 130, 216
ms.pic is on page 127
make.ps is on page 282

In Volume 2B (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan/v7vol2b.pdf)
implfig1.pic is on page 162
implfig2.pic is on page 168

these are the PDF page numbers (where the title is page 1)


> From: Mark Longridge <cubexyz at gmail.com>
>
> I came across some Unix files in v7add such as bs.ps for the Bell logo
> and ms.pic (described as Figure 1 for msmacros).
>
> http://www.maxhost.org/other/ms.pic
>
> I was wondering if there was some viewer or conversion program so we
> could look at pic files from this era?
>
> Mark
>
>


From doug at cs.dartmouth.edu  Tue Jul 21 11:18:37 2015
From: doug at cs.dartmouth.edu (Doug McIlroy)
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 21:18:37 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] who is "Veigh S. Meer"?
Message-ID: <201507210118.t6L1IbJE005964@tahoe.cs.Dartmouth.EDU>

> The punning pseudonym, the complaint at the end that Unix and C are dead
> and nothing is even on the horizon to replace them, and the general snarky
> tone suggest to me that it's Rob "Mark V. Shaney" Pike.  In that case,
> the affiliation with Bellcore is a blind ("not Goodyear, Goodrich").

VSM, MVS: what other mystery authors in Unix land identify thus with VMS?

Doug


From dave at horsfall.org  Wed Jul 22 13:04:03 2015
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 13:04:03 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] /usr/games/factor
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>

I recall playing with this on the -11, but it seems to have become extinct 
(the program, I mean).  I seem to recall that it was written in PDP-11 
assembly; did it ever get rewritten in C?

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
   "The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of
roughly a factor of two per year." -- G.Moore, Electronics, Vol 38 No 8, 1965


From reed at reedmedia.net  Wed Jul 22 13:16:15 2015
From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 22:16:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [TUHS] /usr/games/factor
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.NEB.2.11.1507212212430.27911@t1.m.reedmedia.net>

> I recall playing with this on the -11, but it seems to have become extinct 
> (the program, I mean).  I seem to recall that it was written in PDP-11 
> assembly; did it ever get rewritten in C?

Looks like rewritten at least twice (1983 and 1990):
http://svnweb.freebsd.org/csrg/games/factor/

Also a maintained version
http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/games/factor/




From grog at lemis.com  Wed Jul 22 14:17:30 2015
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 14:17:30 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] /usr/games/factor
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <20150722041730.GA27366@eureka.lemis.com>

On Wednesday, 22 July 2015 at 13:04:03 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> I recall playing with this on the -11, but it seems to have become extinct
> (the program, I mean).  I seem to recall that it was written in PDP-11
> assembly; did it ever get rewritten in C?

It's part of the base system in FreeBSD.

Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft MUA reports
problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
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From dave at horsfall.org  Wed Jul 22 16:38:32 2015
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 16:38:32 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] /usr/games/factor
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221636360.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>

Arrggh...  Out of four boxes within reach, I had to pick the wrong one :-( 
Sorry for the noise; I need more sleep.

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer"
   "The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of
roughly a factor of two per year." -- G.Moore, Electronics, Vol 38 No 8, 1965


From fair-tuhs at netbsd.org  Wed Jul 22 16:43:16 2015
From: fair-tuhs at netbsd.org (Erik E. Fair)
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:43:16 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] /usr/games/factor
In-Reply-To: <20150722041730.GA27366@eureka.lemis.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <29885.1437547396@cesium.clock.org>

And NetBSD.

	Erik <fair at clock.org>


From dwalker at doomd.net  Thu Jul 23 11:05:10 2015
From: dwalker at doomd.net (Derrik Walker v2.0)
Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2015 21:05:10 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] /usr/games/factor
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <55B03DC6.3030605@doomd.net>

On 07/21/2015 11:04 PM, Dave Horsfall wrote:
> I recall playing with this on the -11, but it seems to have become extinct
> (the program, I mean).  I seem to recall that it was written in PDP-11
> assembly; did it ever get rewritten in C?
>
On my Fedora 22 system:

# rpm -qf /usr/bin/factor
coreutils-8.23-10.fc22.x86_64

Cant speculate on non-redhat systems, but it should be in coreutils on 
all Redhat based systems.

-- 
-- Derrik

Derrik Walker v2.0, RHCE
dwalker at doomd.net

"Those UNIX guys, they think weird!" -- John C. Dvorak



From peter at rulingia.com  Thu Jul 23 15:53:44 2015
From: peter at rulingia.com (Peter Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 15:53:44 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] /usr/games/factor
In-Reply-To: <55B03DC6.3030605@doomd.net>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507221256040.20306@aneurin.horsfall.org>
 <55B03DC6.3030605@doomd.net>
Message-ID: <20150723055344.GD29825@server.rulingia.com>

On 2015-Jul-22 21:05:10 -0400, "Derrik Walker v2.0" <dwalker at doomd.net> wrote:
>Cant speculate on non-redhat systems, but it should be in coreutils on 
>all Redhat based systems.

Given the license on coreutils, that is hopefully a clean-room rewrite
of the original factor, rather than a copy of it.

-- 
Peter Jeremy
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From dave at horsfall.org  Fri Jul 31 06:00:21 2015
From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2015 06:00:21 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Make love
Message-ID: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507310552240.98367@aneurin.horsfall.org>

So me, being an uber-geek, tried it on a few boxen again...

On the Mac:

    ozzie:~ dave$ make love
    make: *** No rule to make target `love'.  Stop.

Boring...

On FreeBSD:

    aneurin% make love
    Not war.

Thank you for keeping the faith!

And on my tame penguin:

    dave at debbie:~$ make love
    -bash: make: command not found

Sigh...

-- 
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU)  "Those who don't understand security will suffer."
Watson never said: "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."


From cowan at mercury.ccil.org  Fri Jul 31 06:03:09 2015
From: cowan at mercury.ccil.org (John Cowan)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 16:03:09 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Make love
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507310552240.98367@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507310552240.98367@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <20150730200308.GF6189@mercury.ccil.org>

Dave Horsfall scripsit:

> On FreeBSD:
> 
>     aneurin% make love
>     Not war.

On OS/8, it said "Not war?" with a question mark (well, using Great Runes).
"Make" on old DEC systems started Teco with EWwhatever$$.

-- 
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan at ccil.org
Eric Raymond is the Margaret Mead of the Open Source movement.
          --Bruce Perens, a long time ago


From ori at helicontech.co.il  Fri Jul 31 06:37:47 2015
From: ori at helicontech.co.il (Ori Idan)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 23:37:47 +0300
Subject: [TUHS] Make love
In-Reply-To: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507310552240.98367@aneurin.horsfall.org>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507310552240.98367@aneurin.horsfall.org>
Message-ID: <CACyhTRESfZvrChdGE9gouihvGejEB6Gm2AUsigz_snKSzz+1Ng@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave at horsfall.org> wrote:

> So me, being an uber-geek, tried it on a few boxen again...
>
> On the Mac:
>
>     ozzie:~ dave$ make love
>     make: *** No rule to make target `love'.  Stop.
>
> Boring...
>
> On FreeBSD:
>
>     aneurin% make love
>     Not war.
>
> Thank you for keeping the faith!
>
> And on my tame penguin:
>
>     dave at debbie:~$ make love
>     -bash: make: command not found
>
> Sigh...
>

Tried on my Linux machine and got boring message similar to Mac:
make: *** No rule to make target `love'.  Stop.

-- 
Ori Idan
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From chet.ramey at case.edu  Fri Jul 31 06:45:42 2015
From: chet.ramey at case.edu (Chet Ramey)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 16:45:42 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Make love
In-Reply-To: <CACyhTRESfZvrChdGE9gouihvGejEB6Gm2AUsigz_snKSzz+1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507310552240.98367@aneurin.horsfall.org>
 <CACyhTRESfZvrChdGE9gouihvGejEB6Gm2AUsigz_snKSzz+1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55BA8CF6.4010208@case.edu>

On 7/30/15 4:37 PM, Ori Idan wrote:

> Tried on my Linux machine and got boring message similar to Mac:
> make: *** No rule to make target `love'.  Stop.

They both use (the apparently humorless) GNU make.

-- 
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
		 ``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, ITS, CWRU    chet at case.edu    http://cnswww.cns.cwru.edu/~chet/


From jaapna at xs4all.nl  Fri Jul 31 06:51:40 2015
From: jaapna at xs4all.nl (Jaap Akkerhuis)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 22:51:40 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Make love
In-Reply-To: <CACyhTRESfZvrChdGE9gouihvGejEB6Gm2AUsigz_snKSzz+1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <alpine.BSF.2.11.1507310552240.98367@aneurin.horsfall.org>
 <CACyhTRESfZvrChdGE9gouihvGejEB6Gm2AUsigz_snKSzz+1Ng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B18EF1BF-EFA0-4908-8834-7A4A80266F94@xs4all.nl>

make: don't know how to make love.

is the answer I remember.

FreeBSD make actually says: "make: don't know how to make love. Stop"

	jaap


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From norman at oclsc.org  Fri Jul 31 07:11:55 2015
From: norman at oclsc.org (Norman Wilson)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:11:55 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Make love
Message-ID: <1438290719.13422.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org>

My vague memory is that the original make, e.g. in V7, printed
`Don't know how to make love.'  This was not a special case:
`don't know how to make XXX' was the normal message.

There was a variant make that printed
	Not war?
if asked to make love without explicit instructions.  I thought
that appeared in 3BSD or 4BSD, but I could be mistaken.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON


From cym224 at gmail.com  Fri Jul 31 10:16:40 2015
From: cym224 at gmail.com (Nemo)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2015 20:16:40 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Make love
Message-ID: <CAJfiPzwxCQJg9fu7du9yuNGG20YHEMTyLu-1ZrE7pZ4ze6wgCw@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 July 2015 at 17:11, Norman Wilson <norman at oclsc.org> wrote:
> My vague memory is that the original make, e.g. in V7, printed
> `Don't know how to make love.'  This was not a special case:
> `don't know how to make XXX' was the normal message.
>
> There was a variant make that printed
>         Not war?
> if asked to make love without explicit instructions.  I thought
> that appeared in 3BSD or 4BSD, but I could be mistaken.

On Solaris 10, /usr/css/bin/make reports:
make: Fatal error: Don't know how to make target `love'

N.


