From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jul  1 02:31:34 2002
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 12:31:34 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6
References: <200206301209.g5UC9DQ04021@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <000c01c22053$99fa7e60$9bba580c@who>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Thank you for your kind advice, Warren. However, I have tried most of the
other members of that directory, and yes, it does work. I am curious about
this one, because it appears to be decidely different then say an actual
distribution of V6. I am also looking at the ones that came from the
Research area.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Toomey" <wkt at minnie.tuhs.org>
To: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8 at worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6


> In article by Gregg C Levine:
> > On the FTP site, is a a V6 distribution contributed by Tim Shoppa. It is
> > created for the PDP-11/23, and there is a good readme.txt file that
explains
> > the different images, and how they got there. However, has anyone
actually
> > gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of
> > commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help.
> > I have mine, built using the MingW compiler, and this is version 2.9-10.
> > Also, if anyone has gotten it to boot on real hardware, that would a be
a
> > great plus.
>
> Gregg, I'd first try the other V6 boot images found in:
>
> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Boot_Images
>
> e.g  v6_rl02_unknown.gz
>
> to make sure that they will boot with the Supnik emulator.
> You might also find that the Supnik emulator can't emulate
> an 11/23. So I would also try the Ersatz emulator and set
> it's CPU to be a 23.
>
> In other words, try a known bootable image first, then
> try Ersatz-11 as an 11/23 on that same bootable image,
> and then try Tim Shoppa's image.
>
> Warren
>



From helbig at Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE  Mon Jul  1 18:12:19 2002
From: helbig at Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (Wolfgang Helbig)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 10:12:19 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [TUHS] The Tim Shoppa distribution of V6
Message-ID: <200207010812.g618CJA00234@bsd.korb>

Gregg C Levine:
>gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of
>commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help.

Here is a transcript:

PDP-11 simulator V2.9-10
sim> set rl0 rl02
sim> show rl0
RL0, 5242KW, not attached, write enabled, RL02
sim> att rl0 unix_v6.rl02
sim> show rl0
RL0, 5242KW, attached to unix_v6.rl02, write enabled, RL02
sim> boot rl0
!unix
unix v6 11/23
mem = 99 KW max = 63
# 

Good Luck,

Wolfgang
Gregg C Levine:
>gotten the distribution to boot, using a version of Simh? A text file of
>commands to be fed to the Simh program would be a great help.

Here is a transcript:

PDP-11 simulator V2.9-10
sim> set rl0 rl02
sim> show rl0
RL0, 5242KW, not attached, write enabled, RL02
sim> att rl0 unix_v6.rl02
sim> show rl0
RL0, 5242KW, attached to unix_v6.rl02, write enabled, RL02
sim> boot rl0
!unix
unix v6 11/23
mem = 99 KW max = 63
# 

Good Luck,

Wolfgang


From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Sat Jul  6 12:52:43 2002
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:52:43 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] SCO then Caldera
Message-ID: <002201c22498$33b19460$14bd580c@who>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
The web site links, that contain the SCO location, now point to a site on
Caldera's site. I tried e-mailing someone via their contacts page, but so
far to no avail. Has anyone on the list had any favorable response,
regarding the ability to access their archives of the older versions of
UNIX? As always, I am interested in the versions of UNIX that are targeted
towards the PDP-11. Seriously though, has anyone actually gotten any
feedback from Caldera? Warren if you want to comment, please do so, and I'll
even accept a private one.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"



From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Sat Jul  6 15:06:28 2002
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 15:06:28 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] SCO then Caldera
In-Reply-To: <002201c22498$33b19460$14bd580c@who> from Gregg C Levine at "Jul
 5, 2002 10:52:43 pm"
Message-ID: <200207060506.g6656S178778@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Gregg C Levine:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> The web site links, that contain the SCO location, now point to a site on
> Caldera's site. I tried e-mailing someone via their contacts page, but so
> far to no avail. Has anyone on the list had any favorable response,
> regarding the ability to access their archives of the older versions of
> UNIX? As always, I am interested in the versions of UNIX that are targeted
> towards the PDP-11. Seriously though, has anyone actually gotten any
> feedback from Caldera? Warren if you want to comment, please do so, and I'll
> even accept a private one.
> Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net

I had to _give_ Caldera, and SCO before that, copes of the PDP-11
versions of UNIX, as they did not have them ;-) They only have the
rights, they didn't have the old code.

So what you see in the Unix Archive is all that anybody has been
able to find.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Mon Jul  8 11:09:03 2002
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 11:09:03 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386
In-Reply-To: <20020707154509.A172@muppet.labs.de> from Sven Dehmlow at "Jul 7,
 2002 03:45:09 pm"
Message-ID: <200207080109.g68193F96557@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Sven Dehmlow:
> Hi Warren,
> I can't find the port [of V6 to the 286] in the archives.
> Am I'm too stupid to search or haven't you added it yet?
> Sven

My apologies, I had forgotten to import it. It's now available
at http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/V6on286

with the mirror sites to follow soon.

Cheers,
	Warren


From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jul  8 12:53:46 2002
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:53:46 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Other operating systems on the PDP-11
Message-ID: <000501c2262a$b3803140$8d53580c@who>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
I've got a question for those of you, who work more in that field then I.Has
anyone successfully gotten, say, NetBSD, or anything along the lines of the
4.4 series to run on a PDP-11? Granted I don't think it would work there,
because of the way its hardware was constructed. Or for that matter, say
Linux? Since the Simh collection builds easily on Linux, I was thinking that
it would be relatively simple to do so.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"



From grog at lemis.com  Mon Jul  8 12:59:34 2002
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:29:34 +0930
Subject: [TUHS] Other operating systems on the PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <000501c2262a$b3803140$8d53580c@who>
References: <000501c2262a$b3803140$8d53580c@who>
Message-ID: <20020708025934.GH90012@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Sunday,  7 July 2002 at 22:53:46 -0400, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> I've got a question for those of you, who work more in that field then I.Has
> anyone successfully gotten, say, NetBSD, or anything along the lines of the
> 4.4 series to run on a PDP-11? Granted I don't think it would work there,
> because of the way its hardware was constructed. Or for that matter, say
> Linux? Since the Simh collection builds easily on Linux, I was thinking that
> it would be relatively simple to do so.

The big issue is address space.  It's difficult enough shoehorning
2.11BSD onto the PDP-11.  It's well-nigh impossible to retrofit 32 bit
operating systems.  But Steven M. Schulz will doubtless give you a
better explanation.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Mon Jul  8 13:43:51 2002
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:43:51 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Other operating systems on the PDP-11
In-Reply-To: <20020708025934.GH90012@wantadilla.lemis.com> from "Greg 'groggy'
 Lehey" at "Jul 8, 2002 12:29:34 pm"
Message-ID: <200207080343.g683hqX97846@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Greg 'groggy' Lehey:
> Has anyone successfully gotten, say, NetBSD, or anything along the lines of the
> > 4.4 series to run on a PDP-11?
> 
> The big issue is address space.  It's difficult enough shoehorning
> 2.11BSD onto the PDP-11.  It's well-nigh impossible to retrofit 32 bit
> operating systems.  But Steven M. Schulz will doubtless give you a
> better explanation.
> Greg

More specifically, the issue is data space. Using overlays, you can
have a process with more than 64Kbytes of instruction space on a PDP-11,
but the maximum data space that a process can have is 64Kbytes.

The kernel is in a similar situation, but with some PDP-11 models
there is kernel mode and supervisor mode, giving you two separate
64Kbytes instruction + 64Kbytes data address spaces (and overlays
to increase the I space).

I can't see Linux fitting into 128K of data space, and GCC is definitely
out of the question. Besides, 2.11BSD already looks pretty close to 4BSD :-)

	Warren


From sms at 2BSD.COM  Mon Jul  8 14:30:42 2002
From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 21:30:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Other operating systems on the PDP-11
Message-ID: <200207080430.g684Ugi05665@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at minnie.tuhs.org>
> In article by Greg 'groggy' Lehey:
> > The big issue is address space.  It's difficult enough shoehorning
> > 2.11BSD onto the PDP-11.  It's well-nigh impossible to retrofit 32 bit
> > operating systems.  But Steven M. Schulz will doubtless give you a

> More specifically, the issue is data space. Using overlays, you can
> have a process with more than 64Kbytes of instruction space on a PDP-11,
> but the maximum data space that a process can have is 64Kbytes.
> 
> The kernel is in a similar situation, but with some PDP-11 models
> there is kernel mode and supervisor mode, giving you two separate
> 64Kbytes instruction + 64Kbytes data address spaces (and overlays
> to increase the I space).
> 
> I can't see Linux fitting into 128K of data space, and GCC is definitely
> out of the question. Besides, 2.11BSD already looks pretty close to 4BSD :-)

	Well said Warren.

	The D (data) space is the most severe constraint on adding any new
	feature to 2.11BSD.  Besides, as Warren mentioned, most of 4.3BSD
	as well as a few bits&pieces of 4.4 are already present.

	A couple years ago I toyed with the idea of porting over the 4.4BSD
	tty subsystem (it'd be real nice to have termios and 8bit clean
	serial line handling).   The 'struct tty' almost tripled in size!  Even
	doing major surgery and leaving out a couple less useful capabilities
	the growth in 'struct tty' exceeded what is left available in 2.11's
	kernel D space.

	Oh, I should point out the limit for the kernel's D space is even lower
	than the 64KB mentioned.  Of that 64KB the I/O page has to, of course,
	be mapped in at all times or the kernel wouldn't have access to the
	memory management registers, device registers, and so on.    Then
	the kernel has to have access to 'struct u' (the per process context
	area - part of the address space is also where the kernel stack is
	kept).  So, 64 - 8 - 8 = 48.   The kernel has a total of 48KB of
	data space to use.  

	There are a few "tricks" that are played.   Some data structures are
	allocated external to the kernel's D space.  That data is mapped in
	as needed.   Slows things down of course since it does take a number
	of instructions to save the current memory manangement status, change it
	to access the external data, fetch the data, restore the mmu registers.
	Things such as the 4.3BSD disc quota system were implemented this way.

	There is at the present time an absolute maximum on the size of the
	I (instruction/text) space of 56K + (15*8)KB or 176KB (base segment of
	56KB and 15 overlays of 8KB each.  At present, depending on how many
	drivers and so on are configured, about 9 or 10 overlays are used to
	build a 2.11 kernel.   The actual limit of kernel size that can be
	booted is a bit lower due to how the boot process functions - in order
	to simplify the memory manangement during booting the boot code 
	relocates to 192KB.   The sum of the kernel text plus initialized data
	(but not the .bss segment) can not exceed 192KB or the boot code will
	be overwritten.   Another complicating factor comes from UMR (Unibus
	Mapping Registers) handling - if the boot code ever runs above 256KB
	then UMR handling would have to be done by the boot code on UNIBUS
	machines (Qbus machines of course don't have this problem since they
	don't have UMRs to contend with).

	GCC (all of the GNU stuff actually) was written with, I believe,
	"malloc aforethought" ;)   It's outright hostile to 16 bit machines.

	There might be a few bytes free to add a feature or two to 2.11BSD
	but much more than that would mean a lot of work to come up with some
	free D space for the data structures that would be needed.

	Cheers,
	Steven Schultz
	sms at 2bsd.com


From sven_dehmlow at gmx.de  Mon Jul  8 20:33:08 2002
From: sven_dehmlow at gmx.de (Sven Dehmlow)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 12:33:08 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386
In-Reply-To: <200207080109.g68193F96557@minnie.tuhs.org>; from wkt@minnie.tuhs.org on Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 11:09:03AM +1000
References: <20020707154509.A172@muppet.labs.de> <200207080109.g68193F96557@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <20020708123307.A160@muppet.labs.de>

On Mon, Jul 08, 2002 at 11:09:03AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:

> > [...]

> In article by Sven Dehmlow:
> My apologies, I had forgotten to import it. It's now available
> at http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/V6on286
> 
> with the mirror sites to follow soon.

Great!
Now it's time to figure out how to compile this stuff.

Thank you!

Sven


From szigi at ik.bme.hu  Mon Jul  8 23:52:34 2002
From: szigi at ik.bme.hu (SZIGETI Szabolcs)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 15:52:34 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386
References: <20020707154509.A172@muppet.labs.de> <200207080109.g68193F96557@minnie.tuhs.org> <20020708123307.A160@muppet.labs.de>
Message-ID: <001a01c22686$b6d28bc0$26f34298@magosix>

> > My apologies, I had forgotten to import it. It's now available
> > at http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/V6on286
> >
> > with the mirror sites to follow soon.
>
> Great!
> Now it's time to figure out how to compile this stuff.

Hi,


Some hints:

First of all, the code is currently broken. Something is wrong, and it will
not be able to mount the root fs or something, but shouldn't be hard to fix,
because it used to work, and i did something wrong when playing with the
code some years ago, with no backup to revert to.

Originally, I used the commnad line tools of Borland C++ 3.0 to compile. You
need Turbo Assembler, so the Borland C++ 1.0, which is freely available from
Borland as "antique software" is not enough, you'll need the professional
version at least, because it has the command line assembler.

There is a top level makefile, which will create UN.EXE, this is the unix
kernel. You run it under plain MSDOS, it will switch to protected mode, and
with shift-esc it will return to DOS (do a sync before !). Probably it
wouldn't be hard to make it work without DOS as a boot loader :-), but i
never did it.

If compiled with -DSTANDSH, the kernel will be built with a built-in shell
(see KEN/UPROC.C for the command), that can be used to do some basic setup.
It will for example create the /dev/tty entries on a blank root disk. (You
still need the mkfs utility under dos to make a blank disk). I suggest to
use a floppy as a root disk for initial trials.
If you omit STANDSH, it will look for /etc/init to run.


On the directory layout:
CONF contains c.c, the device switch table
DMR contains most of the device drivers
H contains the kernel header files
INCLUDE - the user header files
KEN - rest of the kernel

The low level kernel code is very ugly, as it evolved from experimenting
with protected mode. There are lots of things, that i'm not proud of :-)

SRC/CLIB0 - the C library
SRC/SYSC - the syscall user side interface
SRC/UTIL - the utilities and such, most should work
UTIL - MSDOS utils to compile

In the UTIL directory, there are the following utlities:

c2a - used to compile the kernel, it search-and-replaces some stuff in the
assemlby code, i donát exactly remember why, but it has to do something with
the segmenent names.

exe2v6 - utility to convert MSDOS exe program to a.out. See
SRC/UTIL/Makefile for how to make such an exe. The programs have a built in,
fixed size stack, because Borland C had problems separating code and stack
segment. It could brobably be fixed, but i didn't do it, instead opted for
fixed size stack, adjustable at compile time.

exetr - it can transfer a file to unix via a floppy drive, i donát remember
how it works, i think you put one file to a floppy, and use the kernel-shell
to write it to a file-system. It is a really ugly idea :-)

dumpfs - it is broken, it was intended to back-up a filesystem

mkfs - MSDOS mode mkfs, answer the questions, you'll get the filesystem.
There is no sanity check whatsoever, so be careful, it can screw your
harddrive, if given wrong sector numbers.


Have fun with it, and if you have questions, feel free to write me.

Regards,

    Szabolcs




From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Tue Jul  9 00:15:15 2002
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 00:15:15 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386
In-Reply-To: <001a01c22686$b6d28bc0$26f34298@magosix> from SZIGETI Szabolcs at
 "Jul 8, 2002 03:52:34 pm"
Message-ID: <200207081415.g68EFG502404@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by SZIGETI Szabolcs:
> Some hints:

I've added your hints to the README at Other/V6on286 in the Unix Archive.

	Warren


From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Tue Jul  9 06:32:12 2002
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 16:32:12 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Distributions directory and UCB, and missing ftp site
Message-ID: <000701c226be$8bf92d40$ab72580c@who>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Folks, I've got a question here.
What happened to the ftp site mentioned in this Readme file? I'll post it
here, in its entirety, with the reference in question highlighted. Quoted
Readme there:
"The directories 2.9BSD and 2.11BSD contain these UNIX distributions, and "
"were supplied by Steven Schultz. They contain a full distribution,
including "
"installation tape images.
"
"
"
"The remaining gzipped tar files are other 2BSD distributions supplied by"
"Keith Bostic, except for spencer_2bsd.tar.gz which came from Henry
Spencer."
"They do not contain installation tape images. The 2.9BSD-Patch directory"
"contains patches to 2.9BSD dated August 85, and again supplied by Keith
Bostic."
"
"
"Note that Steven Schultz is still maintaining 2.11BSD, fixing bugs and
making"
"improvements. The patches required to bring this archive version of
2.11BSD"
"up to the current patch level can be obtained via anonymous ftp to"
"ftp.iipo.gtegsc.com in the directory /pub/2.11BSD"
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have tried connecting to it, and my client tells me it does not exist. But
I've seen Steve's message, on my earlier question, so I know he's here.
Steve, are you continuing the work described in the file? And can you get
back to me, via a private message. Warren both replies are valid.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"How many floors does this TARDIS of yours have, anyway?"
P.S. Thanks to everyone for getting back to me so quickly on that issue
regarding our old friend, and the historical items here.



From sms at 2BSD.COM  Tue Jul  9 06:53:41 2002
From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 13:53:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Distributions directory and UCB, and missing ftp site
Message-ID: <200207082053.g68KrfE17332@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8 at worldnet.att.net>
> 2.11BSD"
> "up to the current patch level can be obtained via anonymous ftp to"
> "ftp.iipo.gtegsc.com in the directory /pub/2.11BSD"
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I have tried connecting to it, and my client tells me it does not exist. But

	Indeed.  That's the trouble/curse of the Internet - it's not possible
	to go around and fix/change all the references to names that change
	as companies get bought/sold

	That was a long long (quad_t? ;)) time ago.   GTE sold their
	Government Systems Corporation ('gsc') to General Dynamics several
	years ago.   After a while GTE of course insisted we stop using
	'gtegsc' - then a little later GTE became Verizon.

	Try "ftp.to.gd-es.com"

	For now.   The idjits in charge are playing
	at reorganizing and I think sometime next year the domain name will
	change yet again - but the hope is that the current name will
	be retained for a while as a compatibility measure.

> Steve, are you continuing the work described in the file? And can you get

	It's been a slow couple years - only a couple updates done last
	year and only one or so this year.    Current patchlevel's at 442
	(done Jan 2002).

	Yes, the archive of updates is maintained.   I think there are a
	couple mirrors but I have no accurate count of who is mirroring
	the directory

	Steven Schultz
	sms at 2bsd.com


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Tue Jul  9 08:59:30 2002
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 08:59:30 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Distributions directory and UCB, and missing ftp site
In-Reply-To: <000701c226be$8bf92d40$ab72580c@who> from Gregg C Levine at "Jul
 8, 2002 04:32:12 pm"
Message-ID: <200207082259.g68MxUh06573@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Gregg C Levine:
> Hello from Gregg C Levine
> Folks, I've got a question here.
> What happened to the ftp site mentioned in this Readme file? ...
> "ftp.iipo.gtegsc.com in the directory /pub/2.11BSD"
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Try ftp://ftp.2bsd.com/pub/2.11BSD

And I'll update the README!

	Warren


From Sylvan.Stephan at epamail.epa.gov  Tue Jul 16 07:04:26 2002
From: Sylvan.Stephan at epamail.epa.gov (Sylvan.Stephan at epamail.epa.gov)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 17:04:26 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Copies of 1978 and 1984 BSTJ on Unix; what should I do with them?
Message-ID:  <OFA43AA9C7.715B93E4-ON85256BF7.0073C1FD-85256BF7.0073C36F@rtp.epa.gov>

Dear UNIX Hertigate Society,

I was wondering if you could tell me if these two journals are worth
anything and to whom.

WHile I haven't done Unix work since 1992. When I picked these journals
up in 1986 out of computer engineering school I had a sense they were
something special. I believe the Bell System Technical Journal
July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2 is one of the first places that
Ritchie and THomson publicly described the design of Unix.

They are both in reasonably good condition. Do you know if they are
worth anything? Do you know who might be interested in them?

THanks!

Stephan Sylvan



From cyrille.lefevre at laposte.net  Tue Jul 16 08:28:37 2002
From: cyrille.lefevre at laposte.net (Cyrille Lefevre)
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 00:28:37 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Copies of 1978 and 1984 BSTJ on Unix; what should I do with them?
In-Reply-To: <OFA43AA9C7.715B93E4-ON85256BF7.0073C1FD-85256BF7.0073C36F@rtp.epa.gov>
References: <OFA43AA9C7.715B93E4-ON85256BF7.0073C1FD-85256BF7.0073C36F@rtp.epa.gov>
Message-ID: <20020715222837.GA16050@gits.dyndns.org>

On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 05:04:26PM -0400, Sylvan.Stephan at epamail.epa.gov wrote:
> Dear UNIX Hertigate Society,
> 
> I was wondering if you could tell me if these two journals are worth
> anything and to whom.
> 
> WHile I haven't done Unix work since 1992. When I picked these journals
> up in 1986 out of computer engineering school I had a sense they were
> something special. I believe the Bell System Technical Journal
> July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2 is one of the first places that
> Ritchie and THomson publicly described the design of Unix.
> 
> They are both in reasonably good condition. Do you know if they are
> worth anything? Do you know who might be interested in them?

how about the library of congress ? I guess they currently are putting
any paper source in electronic format...

Cyrille.
-- 
Cyrille Lefevre                 mailto:cyrille.lefevre at laposte.net


From Bryan.Cantrill at eng.sun.com  Tue Jul 16 08:33:16 2002
From: Bryan.Cantrill at eng.sun.com (Bryan Cantrill)
Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 15:33:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Copies of 1978 and 1984 BSTJ on Unix; what should I do with them?
In-Reply-To: From "Sylvan.Stephan@epamail.epa.gov" at "Jul 15, 2002 05:04:26 pm"
Message-ID: <200207152233.g6FMXGrE675158@jurassic.eng.sun.com>

> Dear UNIX Hertigate Society,
> 
> I was wondering if you could tell me if these two journals are worth
> anything and to whom.
> 
> WHile I haven't done Unix work since 1992. When I picked these journals
> up in 1986 out of computer engineering school I had a sense they were
> something special. I believe the Bell System Technical Journal
> July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2 is one of the first places that
> Ritchie and THomson publicly described the design of Unix.
> 
> They are both in reasonably good condition. Do you know if they are
> worth anything? Do you know who might be interested in them?

They are certainly worth something.  (And, being finite, will probably
be worth more in the future.)  If they mean something to you personally,
you should probably hold on to them.  If you want to sell them, I would
recommend eBay (which seems to be the best venue for selling used computer
manuals at the moment).  Be sure to include a write-up of what makes these
two volumes so special.  

Note that BSTJ vol. 57, no. 6 will likely fetch a much higher price than 
vol. 63, no. 8.  (I've bought the latter for as little as ten bucks.)

(Does anyone know how many copies of BSTJ vol. 57, no. 6 there are out there?)

	- Bryan

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development.  bmc at eng.sun.com  (650) 786-3652


From arnold at skeeve.com  Thu Jul 18 07:50:43 2002
From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins)
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 00:50:43 +0300
Subject: [TUHS] Copies of 1978 and 1984 BSTJ on Unix; what should I do with them?
Message-ID: <200207172150.g6HLoh603708@skeeve.com>

> (Does anyone know how many copies of BSTJ vol. 57, no. 6 there are out there?)

Bell Labs reprinted this volume, it was popular for a while.  I bought
my copy circa 1981 simply by writing to the address listed and sending
a check for whatever amount it said.

Arnold


From sven.mascheck at student.uni-ulm.de  Tue Jul 23 23:27:31 2002
From: sven.mascheck at student.uni-ulm.de (Sven Mascheck)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 15:27:31 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] [Bourne shell] SVR1
Message-ID: <20020723132730.GA24587@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de>

Hello,

I'm searching for documentation about the SVR1 shell: i would be glad
if somebody could dig up e.g. a man page or the 1st edition of the
SVID (System V Interface Definition).

I'm interested in the history of the Bourne shell, and this is the last
important variant i'm missing (my current knowledge documented in .sig).

I know the short "changes" paragraph in the 2nd SVID, however a few
points are still unclear to me.

Sven
-- 
<http://www.uni-ulm.de/~s_smasch/various/bourne/>


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Wed Jul 24 09:11:14 2002
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 09:11:14 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] [Bourne shell] SVR1
In-Reply-To: <20020723132730.GA24587@wega.rz.uni-ulm.de> from Sven Mascheck at
 "Jul 23, 2002 03:27:31 pm"
Message-ID: <200207232311.g6NNBEL61537@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Sven Mascheck:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm searching for documentation about the SVR1 shell: i would be glad
> if somebody could dig up e.g. a man page or the 1st edition of the
> SVID (System V Interface Definition).
> 
> I'm interested in the history of the Bourne shell, and this is the last
> important variant i'm missing (my current knowledge documented in .sig).
> 
> I know the short "changes" paragraph in the 2nd SVID, however a few
> points are still unclear to me.

I've got a paper set of early SysV man pages at work, I'll check and see
what version when I get in.

	Warren


From lm at bitmover.com  Wed Jul 24 12:57:51 2002
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 19:57:51 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] SVID?
Message-ID: <20020723195751.E26813@work.bitmover.com>

In the "it would be nice" department, I'd love more copies of the 1986
3 volume SVID.  If people have copies of these sitting around, I'll 
pay for them.  I could use a dozen sets.

Thanks in advance (he says hopefully :)
-- 
---
Larry McVoy            	 lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitmover.com/lm 


