From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Sat Mar  4 03:43:51 2006
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 17:43:51 +0000
Subject: [pups] Getting P11 up on redhat
In-Reply-To: <20051103161014.GA21054@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <005901c5e08f$6aa153f0$0401010a@jfcl.com>
	<20051103161014.GA21054@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <$rU4vzEXBICEFwfp@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Hi Everyone,
I'm having a bit of fun getting P11 up on redhat.  Has anyone got a copy 
of AS11 that they could send me as I want to rebuild everything 
including the boot rom to make sure that I've got it as right as I can.

Cheers

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch



From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Sat Mar  4 04:40:09 2006
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin)
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 18:40:09 -0000
Subject: [pups] Getting P11 up on redhat
Message-ID: <000001c63ef1$e6d3d2c0$0202a8c0@robinslaptop>


Hi Everyone,
I'm having a bit of fun getting P11 up on redhat.  Has anyone got a copy 
of AS11 that they could send me as I want to rebuild everything 
including the boot rom to make sure that I've got it as right as I can.

Cheers

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch





From kelli217 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 06:27:52 2006
From: kelli217 at gmail.com (Kelli Halliburton)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 14:27:52 -0600
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
Message-ID: <200603081427.53544.kelli217@gmail.com>

I feel just a little bit stupid for not figuring them out sooner, but smart in 
being able to figure them out on my own.

Some of you may remember a post I wrote some time ago, dealing with E11 
(Ersatz-11) and the RL02 v7 image. I mentioned not being able to get out of 
single-user mode, and being unable to view man pages.

Well, as it turns out, I stumbled across the method of getting to multi-user 
mode. ^D, imagine that. Dropping out of single-user mode starts multi-user 
mode. That's not something I would have been able to use logic to figure out.

And, well, I happened to notice that there was no temp directory, so no wonder 
man couldn't create its temp file. A quick little 'mkdir tmp' and that 
problem was fixed. Now, that was something I was able to figure out 
logically.

Of course, now my problem is that the console is presumed to be a TTY and not 
a CRT terminal. And so, man pages just scroll right up and off the screen. Oh 
well. I'm sure I'll figure out something. Eventually.


From wkt at tuhs.org  Thu Mar  9 08:15:41 2006
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:15:41 +1000
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <200603081427.53544.kelli217@gmail.com>
References: <200603081427.53544.kelli217@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060308221541.GA49574@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 02:27:52PM -0600, Kelli Halliburton wrote:
> Well, as it turns out, I stumbled across the method of getting to multi-user 
> mode. ^D, imagine that. Dropping out of single-user mode starts multi-user 
> mode. That's not something I would have been able to use logic to figure out.

It's documented in the original V7 installation instructions. Effectively,
you start in single-user mode with a shell attached to the keyboard.
You have to disconnect the keyboard with ctrl-D, which then kills the shell
and starts running /etc/rc.
> 
> Of course, now my problem is that the console is presumed to be a TTY and not 
> a CRT terminal. And so, man pages just scroll right up and off the screen. Oh 
> well. I'm sure I'll figure out something. Eventually.

In V7, everything was a dumb terminal: termcap and curses did not exist yet.
And you were expected to have a paper-based terminal too :)

Cheers,
	Warren


From kelli217 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 08:59:35 2006
From: kelli217 at gmail.com (Kelli Halliburton)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 16:59:35 -0600
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <20060308221541.GA49574@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <200603081427.53544.kelli217@gmail.com>
	<20060308221541.GA49574@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <200603081659.36885.kelli217@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 08 March 2006 04:15 pm, Warren Toomey wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 08, 2006 at 02:27:52PM -0600, Kelli Halliburton wrote:
> > Well, as it turns out, I stumbled across the method of getting to
> > multi-user mode. ^D, imagine that. Dropping out of single-user mode
> > starts multi-user mode. That's not something I would have been able to
> > use logic to figure out.
>
> It's documented in the original V7 installation instructions. Effectively,
> you start in single-user mode with a shell attached to the keyboard.
> You have to disconnect the keyboard with ctrl-D, which then kills the shell
> and starts running /etc/rc.

The site where I got the v7 image was a bit short on instructions. It just had 
the RL image. I was stuck trying to read man pages from within the booted 
system. However, your message has prompted me to try to dig up the manual. I 
have found a set of 3 PDF files, and I have been poking around in them.

> > Of course, now my problem is that the console is presumed to be a TTY and
> > not a CRT terminal. And so, man pages just scroll right up and off the
> > screen. Oh well. I'm sure I'll figure out something. Eventually.
>
> In V7, everything was a dumb terminal: termcap and curses did not exist
> yet. And you were expected to have a paper-based terminal too :)

I was not expecting termcap or curses; I was... *hoping* (still not expecting) 
that perhaps v7 was new enough that the 'simple' type of CRT terminals, the 
ones that were basically just glass TTYs, were in common use. That it would 
be possible to use stty to set the number of rows to n, and that just maybe 
there would be a 'more' command that would only printout the next n lines. 
You know, simple stuff. Nothing about cursor addressable displays, no special 
codes for clearing the screen, or text attributes, just screen paging. At any 
rate, I may sit down at some point and write a 'more' utility of my own. Not 
that I need it for man pages now that I have the offline version of the 
manual, but there are still things like long directory listings that it would 
be useful for.


From ggs at shiresoft.com  Thu Mar  9 09:01:19 2006
From: ggs at shiresoft.com (Guy Sotomayor)
Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 15:01:19 -0800
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <200603081659.36885.kelli217@gmail.com>
References: <200603081427.53544.kelli217@gmail.com>
	<20060308221541.GA49574@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<200603081659.36885.kelli217@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1141858879.7776.28.camel@r003519>

On Wed, 2006-03-08 at 16:59 -0600, Kelli Halliburton wrote:

> 
> The site where I got the v7 image was a bit short on instructions. It just had 
> the RL image. I was stuck trying to read man pages from within the booted 
> system. However, your message has prompted me to try to dig up the manual. I 
> have found a set of 3 PDF files, and I have been poking around in them.

Those will get you a long way.

> 
> > > Of course, now my problem is that the console is presumed to be a TTY and
> > > not a CRT terminal. And so, man pages just scroll right up and off the
> > > screen. Oh well. I'm sure I'll figure out something. Eventually.
> >
> > In V7, everything was a dumb terminal: termcap and curses did not exist
> > yet. And you were expected to have a paper-based terminal too :)
> 
> I was not expecting termcap or curses; I was... *hoping* (still not expecting) 
> that perhaps v7 was new enough that the 'simple' type of CRT terminals, the 
> ones that were basically just glass TTYs, were in common use. That it would 
> be possible to use stty to set the number of rows to n, and that just maybe 
> there would be a 'more' command that would only printout the next n lines. 
> You know, simple stuff. Nothing about cursor addressable displays, no special 
> codes for clearing the screen, or text attributes, just screen paging. At any 
> rate, I may sit down at some point and write a 'more' utility of my own. Not 
> that I need it for man pages now that I have the offline version of the 
> manual, but there are still things like long directory listings that it would 
> be useful for.

Of course, you could get the BSD package (1 or 2 ... not 2.x) and
install it.  That's how BSD started BTW, things like vi, termcap, more,
etc. were add-ons to v7.

-- 

TTFN - Guy



From Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de  Thu Mar  9 09:22:24 2006
From: Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de (Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 00:22:24 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <200603081659.36885.kelli217@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20060309002224.Hellwig.Geisse@mni.fh-giessen.de>


On 08-Mar-2006 Kelli Halliburton wrote:
> I was not expecting termcap or curses; I was... *hoping* (still not
> expecting) 
> that perhaps v7 was new enough that the 'simple' type of CRT terminals, the 
> ones that were basically just glass TTYs, were in common use. That it would 
> be possible to use stty to set the number of rows to n, and that just maybe 
> there would be a 'more' command that would only printout the next n lines. 
> You know, simple stuff. Nothing about cursor addressable displays, no special
> codes for clearing the screen, or text attributes, just screen paging. At any
> rate, I may sit down at some point and write a 'more' utility of my own. Not 
> that I need it for man pages now that I have the offline version of the 
> manual, but there are still things like long directory listings that it would
> be useful for.

Depending on the speed of your simulator, you
could perhaps try to stop the output temporarily
with ^S (and restart it with ^Q). Together with
the ability to scroll backwards within the output
window you should be able to read what is coming
out of your simulated system... ;-)

Good luck,
Hellwig


From johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au  Thu Mar  9 10:01:09 2006
From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au (John Holden)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 11:01:09 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
Message-ID: <200603090001.k29019ob184155@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>

> 
> I was not expecting termcap or curses; I was.. *hoping* (still not expecting) 
> that perhaps v7 was new enough that the 'simple' type of CRT terminals, the 
> ones that were basically just glass TTYs, were in common use. That it would 
> be possible to use stty to set the number of rows to n, and that just maybe 
> there would be a 'more' command that would only printout the next n lines. 
> You know, simple stuff. Nothing about cursor addressable displays, no special 
> codes for clearing the screen, or text attributes, just screen paging. At any 
> rate, I may sit down at some point and write a 'more' utility of my own. Not 
> that I need it for man pages now that I have the offline version of the 
> manual, but there are still things like long directory listings that it would 
> be useful for.

Actually, termcap and vi was ported back to V7 very early in the piece,
though you needed an ID space processor (aka PDP11/45/50/55/70) to run vi.
There were several paging programs about, some using termcap. From memory
there was dis, pg and more. The man command didn't do any pagination

Cheers
John



From kelli217 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 10:02:21 2006
From: kelli217 at gmail.com (Kelli Halliburton)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:02:21 -0600
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.20060309002224.Hellwig.Geisse@mni.fh-giessen.de>
References: <XFMail.20060309002224.Hellwig.Geisse@mni.fh-giessen.de>
Message-ID: <200603081802.23083.kelli217@gmail.com>

On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:22 pm, Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de wrote:
> Depending on the speed of your simulator, you
> could perhaps try to stop the output temporarily
> with ^S (and restart it with ^Q). Together with
> the ability to scroll backwards within the output
> window you should be able to read what is coming
> out of your simulated system... ;-)

E11 starts from a DOS box, which would be fine, since you can set the length 
of the screen buffer in a DOS box, but it takes over the screen. So the 
buffer disappears and the screen becomes only 25 lines long. So the scrolling 
backwards trick doesn't work.

As far as speed goes... under Windows 2000, E11's speed is highly variable. I 
think, from reading the E11 manual, that it has something to do with disk 
caching. I imagine that it's probably much more consistent under DOS, or the 
DOS-based versions of Windows.


From efton.collins at gmail.com  Thu Mar  9 15:15:54 2006
From: efton.collins at gmail.com (Efton Collins)
Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 23:15:54 -0600
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <200603081802.23083.kelli217@gmail.com>
References: <XFMail.20060309002224.Hellwig.Geisse@mni.fh-giessen.de>
	<200603081802.23083.kelli217@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a4d94b170603082115r5eb0901fq264cf94ad8ff2f44@mail.gmail.com>

I have a 7th Edition installation that includes the Berkeley package.  The
USB package includes over 60 commands, 'vi' and 'more' are among them.
There's also a new 'man'  that knows about more, so viewing man pages is
done a page at a time.  Other than installing the Berkeley bits, adding the
RL02 driver to the kernel and rebuilding df,  it should be a fairly close
match to the original distribution tape.

I usually use Bob Supnik's PDP11 emulator. The vanilla emulator works very
well but it's a bit of a CPU hog. On Linux I've been able to tone that down
by adding a nanosleep in the main processing loop.

The distribution is on two 10 megabyte RL02 images. If you would like a copy
of them, let me know and I'll make arrangements to make them available.

Efton


On 3/8/06, Kelli Halliburton <kelli217 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday 08 March 2006 05:22 pm, Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.dewrote:
> > Depending on the speed of your simulator, you
> > could perhaps try to stop the output temporarily
> > with ^S (and restart it with ^Q). Together with
> > the ability to scroll backwards within the output
> > window you should be able to read what is coming
> > out of your simulated system... ;-)
>
> E11 starts from a DOS box, which would be fine, since you can set the
> length
> of the screen buffer in a DOS box, but it takes over the screen. So the
> buffer disappears and the screen becomes only 25 lines long. So the
> scrolling
> backwards trick doesn't work.
>
> As far as speed goes... under Windows 2000, E11's speed is highly
> variable. I
> think, from reading the E11 manual, that it has something to do with disk
> caching. I imagine that it's probably much more consistent under DOS, or
> the
> DOS-based versions of Windows.
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
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From brantley at coraid.com  Thu Mar  9 21:54:43 2006
From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:54:43 -0500
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <1141858879.7776.28.camel@r003519>
Message-ID: <7792a193e99547370983908c7011db7c@coraid.com>

>> > > Of course, now my problem is that the console is presumed to be a TTY and
>> > > not a CRT terminal. And so, man pages just scroll right up and off the
>> > > screen. Oh well. I'm sure I'll figure out something. Eventually.

Kernighan and Pike's book `The Unix Programming Environment' has a
program called `p' that was used in the labs when screens became
faster.

>> > In V7, everything was a dumb terminal: termcap and curses did not exist
>> > yet. And you were expected to have a paper-based terminal too :)

By 1978 glass ttys were very much in use.  The advent of the
microprocessor made smart terminals affordable.

I would suggest that you play with V7 without the Berkeley stuff.  It
will add to your experience.  You'll be surprised by the productivity
and usefulness of a system that doesn't move the cursor.  From 1982
until 1992 I used ed(1) almost exclusively.  In the Seventh Edition
you can see the true beauty of the tools approach without them being
obscured by foreign influences.  

The whole idea of running these systems, seems to me, id getting the
real experience of living with them.  The V7 experience is a wonderful
one.  As you explore the system, you'll see ways to do things
elegantly where other systems have added lots of ornimates that
obscure.  To get a real feel, run it as most did.

If you want to expericne BSD, then load BSD.



From Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de  Thu Mar  9 22:10:29 2006
From: Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de (Hellwig.Geisse at mni.fh-giessen.de)
Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2006 13:10:29 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] Figured some things out.
In-Reply-To: <a4d94b170603082115r5eb0901fq264cf94ad8ff2f44@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <XFMail.20060309131029.Hellwig.Geisse@mni.fh-giessen.de>

Hi Efton,

On 09-Mar-2006 Efton Collins wrote:
> I have a 7th Edition installation that includes the Berkeley package.
> [..]
> The distribution is on two 10 megabyte RL02 images. If you would like a copy
> of them, let me know and I'll make arrangements to make them available.

I'm definitely interested. It would be very
kind of you if you could make them available.

Hellwig


From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Tue Mar 21 04:54:13 2006
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin)
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:54:13 -0000
Subject: [pups] Supnik Emulator on Redhat Linux
Message-ID: <000901c64c4f$ae9a4130$0202a8c0@robinslaptop>

Hi,

I have successfully got the supnik emulator up and running on redhat but
have hit a problem, which is probably configuration and serves to show how
little I know about more recent unices.

 

To allow computer to emulator comms I have installed a second card and
enabled it under linux.  It is enabled with a different address to the first
one 192.168.1.10 and 192.168.1.11.  The emulator can see both of the devices
and I have attached device 1 (eth1) as xq0.

 

I run up BSD2.11 on the emulator and it attaches to the ether device at
start up.  

 

I can ftp from the emulator to the host and back again if I start ftp on the
emulator.

 

I can't telnet to the host.

 

I can't telnet from the host to the emulator.

 

I can't ftp from the host to the emulator.

 

I also can't telnet in from a telnet session to the listening socket set up
for a DZ11 (I could before I started trying to get the networking up).

 

Ideas anyone?

 

Robin

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From toby at smartgames.ca  Fri Mar 24 08:43:20 2006
From: toby at smartgames.ca (Toby Thain)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 17:43:20 -0500
Subject: [pups] Supnik Emulator on Redhat Linux
In-Reply-To: <001c01c64eb4$0c07dec0$0202a8c0@robinslaptop>
References: <001c01c64eb4$0c07dec0$0202a8c0@robinslaptop>
Message-ID: <240321E8-83E3-499A-80BB-DC628E545BEB@smartgames.ca>


On 23-Mar-06, at 2:57 PM, Robin wrote:

> Ah,
>
> That’s a good suggestion.  I’ll dig my way round the redhat config  
> stuff and see if I can find one to switch off.
>
>

Look at "iptables".

--Toby


>
>
> Robin
>
>
>
> From: Toby Thain [mailto:toby at smartgames.ca]
> Sent: 23 March 2006 06:37
> To: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [pups] Supnik Emulator on Redhat Linux
>
>
>
>
>
> On 20-Mar-06, at 1:54 PM, Robin wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have successfully got the supnik emulator up and running on  
> redhat but have hit a problem, which is probably configuration and  
> serves to show how little I know about more recent unices.
>
>
>
> To allow computer to emulator comms I have installed a second card  
> and enabled it under linux.  It is enabled with a different address  
> to the first one 192.168.1.10 and 192.168.1.11.  The emulator can  
> see both of the devices and I have attached device 1 (eth1) as xq0.
>
>
>
> I run up BSD2.11 on the emulator and it attaches to the ether  
> device at start up.
>
>
>
> I can ftp from the emulator to the host and back again if I start  
> ftp on the emulator.
>
>
>
> I can’t telnet to the host.
>
>
>
> I can’t telnet from the host to the emulator.
>
>
>
> I can’t ftp from the host to the emulator.
>
>
>
> I also can’t telnet in from a telnet session to the listening  
> socket set up for a DZ11 (I could before I started trying to get  
> the networking up).
>
>
>
> Ideas anyone?
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds like firewall to me.
>
>
>
> --Toby
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Robin
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> PUPS mailing list
>
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
>
>
>

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From j at cnb.uam.es  Wed Mar  1 00:45:07 2006
From: j at cnb.uam.es (J. R. Valverde)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:45:07 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] Tape images of 2.9BSD for SIMH?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0602240900250.12968@localhost.localdomain>
References: <8dd2d95c0602231353j53ece473kac6def1f728f9fc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602240900250.12968@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20060228154507.0a341c3c.j@cnb.uam.es>

Or you can try a pre-built one ;-)

I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them
free. Look into

	ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/

for some of them.
				j

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:03:13 -0800 (PST)
Andru Luvisi <luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006, Madcrow Maxwell wrote:
> > I was wondering how I can turn the provided TAR files of 2.9BSD into a
> > proper tape image for use with an emulator? Is a premade emu-friendly
> > install tape available? I don't have either a real '11 or a physical
> > tape drive on my computer?
> 
> This 2.11 image in:
> http://www.tribug.org/pub/tuhs/PDP-11/Boot_Images/2.11_on_Simh/
> 
> contains a perl script which creates a bootable tape image from the tape 
> files for 2.11BSD.  It shouldn't be too hard to modify it to do the same 
> for 2.9BSD.
> 
> Andru
> -- 
> Andru Luvisi
> 
> Quote Of The Moment:
>   "If you give someone Fortran, he has Fortran. 
>    If you give someone Lisp,    he has any language he pleases." 
>   		-- Guy Steele
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From sztrprszkolwia at gmail.com  Wed Mar  1 02:42:59 2006
From: sztrprszkolwia at gmail.com (Z Sztrprszkolwia)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:42:59 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] Tape images of 2.9BSD for SIMH?
In-Reply-To: <20060228154507.0a341c3c.j@cnb.uam.es>
References: <8dd2d95c0602231353j53ece473kac6def1f728f9fc7@mail.gmail.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602240900250.12968@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060228154507.0a341c3c.j@cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <44047D93.9030309@gmail.com>

J. R. Valverde wrote:

>I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them
>free. Look into
>
>	ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/
>
>for some of them.
>  
>
Check permissions: I can't read the directories as 'anonymous' :(

Thanks! :)

Z.


From kees.stravers at iae.nl  Fri Mar  3 02:03:29 2006
From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (Kees Stravers)
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 17:03:29 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] ATT 3b2
In-Reply-To: <ABD5F0691C83424997EBEBF369ED9D9205C2E2DF@PHXEXHVRT01.americas.ad.pegs.com>
Message-ID: <44072561.19971.9511DD1@kees.stravers.iae.nl>

On 20 Feb 2006 at 10:43, Stuart, Jon wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> I'm interested in acquring an AT&T 3b2 computer.  One of these
> systems
> used to run a famous public UNIX system "killer".  They also run
> #5ess
> telephone switches, however the OS is different in that case
> (DMERT/UNIX-RTR instead of whatever the consumer-level 3b2 runs). 

Where are you located? I have an Olivetti-rebranded AT&T 3B2/400 
machine over here, but I live in The Netherlands and I have decided 
long ago never to lift that machine again and leave it where it 
stands now in the house. It may not be that big but it is very 
strongly built and it has two heavy full height 70 MB 5.25 hard disk 
drives in it. 

You see, the last time I carried this machine, more than 10 years 
ago, I hurt my back because of it and had to have six weeks of 
therapy. It bothers me to this day. The perils of collecting old 
computers, I guess.

What impressed me most when I got the machine, apart from my back 
problems, whas the impressive manuals that came with it, a row of red 
binders in grey sleeves with excellent documentation. Also I was 
surprised by the on/off switch, which does not blindly power off the 
machine but initates a proper shut down sequence, so you can shut it 
down properly without knowing any passwords. All *nix machines should 
have a power switch like that.

Also, the serial ports had RJ45 connectors already, and that is a lot 
easier if you have to put the plug in while fumbling about on the 
side, you can put them in without looking.

I'm not doing much with it now since my main interest in old 
computers still is the VAX.

Regards,
Kees Stravers
http://www.vaxarchive.org/



From aw at aw.gs  Thu Mar  9 13:15:34 2006
From: aw at aw.gs (A. Wik)
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 03:15:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TUHS] papers on the -mm macros?
Message-ID: <20060309022832.F98411@dynamite.narpes.com>


Hi,

I've found the documentation for most of the major
troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't
seem to find anything but occasional references to a
paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm)
by Smith and Mashey.

I'm hoping some of you may have better insight into
the matter...

-aw


From lm at bitmover.com  Sat Mar 11 01:41:16 2006
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 07:41:16 -0800
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1141956001.52770.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <mailman.3.1141956001.52770.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <20060310154115.GA24047@bitmover.com>

> I've found the documentation for most of the major
> troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't
> seem to find anything but occasional references to a
> paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm)
> by Smith and Mashey.

Try asking on the groff mailing list, they have been very active lately,
built a new macro package even.

groff at gnu.org

-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Sat Mar 11 08:58:55 2006
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:58:55 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] Tape images of 2.9BSD for SIMH?
In-Reply-To: <44106FF2.3000401@gmail.com>
References: <8dd2d95c0602231353j53ece473kac6def1f728f9fc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602240900250.12968@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060228154507.0a341c3c.j@cnb.uam.es> <44106FF2.3000401@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060310235855.3409a699.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

Please, forgive me. I profusely apologize for all the inconveniences. It's
been fixed now.

I am sorry, I have been busy with lectures and travels and had forgotten the
issue until I finally found time tonight to re-check TUHS on this account.
Be assured I blushed when I saw my mistake and it has been the first thing 
I've done.

I'll try not to leave TUHS for so long again. Promise.

					j



On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:12:02 +0000
Z Sztrprszkolwia <sztrprszkolwia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> A couple of weeks ago you gave this address in the TUHS list, for tape 
> images of BSD:
> 
> J. R. Valverde wrote:
> 
> >I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them
> >free. Look into
> >
> >	ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/
> >
> >for some of them.
> >
> 
> Unfortunately, when I log in as anonymous the directories are listed as 
> drwxrwx--- (no permision whatsoever for 'others') and I can't download 
> your simhs :((
> I'm quite interested in playing with them, could you give others r-x 
> permisions? Thanks :))


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Sat Mar 11 08:59:59 2006
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (Jose R. Valverde)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:59:59 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] Tape images of 2.9BSD for SIMH?
In-Reply-To: <44106FF2.3000401@gmail.com>
References: <8dd2d95c0602231353j53ece473kac6def1f728f9fc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.64.0602240900250.12968@localhost.localdomain>
	<20060228154507.0a341c3c.j@cnb.uam.es> <44106FF2.3000401@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060310235959.2c905cd5.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

Please, forgive me. I profusely apologize for all the inconveniences. It's
been fixed now.

I am sorry, I have been busy with lectures and travels and had forgotten the
issue until I finally found time tonight to re-check TUHS on this account. To
top it off my home computer broke and I only bought a new one yesterday.
Be assured I blushed when I saw my mistake and it has been the first thing 
I've done.

I'll try not to leave TUHS for so long again. Promise.

					j



On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:12:02 +0000
Z Sztrprszkolwia <sztrprszkolwia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> A couple of weeks ago you gave this address in the TUHS list, for tape 
> images of BSD:
> 
> J. R. Valverde wrote:
> 
> >I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them
> >free. Look into
> >
> >	ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/
> >
> >for some of them.
> >
> 
> Unfortunately, when I log in as anonymous the directories are listed as 
> drwxrwx--- (no permision whatsoever for 'others') and I can't download 
> your simhs :((
> I'm quite interested in playing with them, could you give others r-x 
> permisions? Thanks :))


From aw at aw.gs  Sat Mar 11 15:16:04 2006
From: aw at aw.gs (A. Wik)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 05:16:04 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <20060310154115.GA24047@bitmover.com>
References: <mailman.3.1141956001.52770.tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
	<20060310154115.GA24047@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <20060311025149.C98411@dynamite.narpes.com>

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006, Larry McVoy wrote:

> > I've found the documentation for most of the major
> > troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't
> > seem to find anything but occasional references to a
> > paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm)
> > by Smith and Mashey.
> 
> Try asking on the groff mailing list, they have been very active lately,
> built a new macro package even.

As a matter of fact, I did come across the groff list archives -
one of the members suggested adding a placeholder to the troff.org
web site for a link to the -mm document I mentioned:

http://www.troff.org/papers.html

-aw



From gunnarr at acm.org  Sun Mar 12 00:25:49 2006
From: gunnarr at acm.org (Gunnar Ritter)
Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:25:49 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] papers on the -mm macros?
In-Reply-To: <20060309022832.F98411@dynamite.narpes.com>
References: <20060309022832.F98411@dynamite.narpes.com>
Message-ID: <4412dded.NzKo0mGuM23J//Yf%gunnarr@acm.org>

"A. Wik" <aw at aw.gs> wrote:

> I've found the documentation for most of the major
> troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't
> seem to find anything but occasional references to a
> paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm)
> by Smith and Mashey.

The source code for this paper had been available as part
of the System III distribution under the old (unfree) SCO
license.

In case you had applied for that license, and you still
have an old PUPS archive CD at hand, you can find it in
Distributions/usdl/SysIII/sys3.tar.gz.

You will not be able to recover the original layout since
PostScript font metrics are quite different from CAT ones,
but Heirloom troff produces readable output at least.

	Gunnar


