From sethm at loomcom.com  Tue May  9 08:02:40 2000
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 15:02:40 -0700
Subject: Good news on the Ancient UNIX License front
Message-ID: <20000508150240.A7092@loomcom.com>

Hello all,

I've just received this mail from SCO.  I think it's appropriate to
post here.

Apparently we can expect the Ancient UNIX License available on the
SCO website by Friday (U.S. Pacific Time, I would suspect).  Very
good news indeed!

Included message follows:

>To: sethm at loomcom.com
>From: Paul Kaspian <paulka at sco.COM>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Seth,
>
>Sorry for the late reply. We are in the process of adding Ancient UNIX to our
>web site now that the $100 fee is waived. This should be up on the site by May
>12th. It will be located at www.sco.com/offers. Please let me know if you have
>any questions.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Paul Kasipan
>Marketing Manager
>SCO
>
>
>At 10:25 AM 4/26/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:58:24 -0700
>>From: sjm <sethm at loomcom.com>
>>To: toms at sco.com
>>Subject: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license
>>X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1us
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I read your recent press release regarding SCO's new open source
>>initiatives with some interest.  Specifically, I'm curious what your
>>plans are regarding the "Ancient" UNIX license which SCO previously
>>charged $100 for.  Do you know when the new free license will be
>>available?
>>
>>Thank you for your help,
>>
>>-Seth Morabito
>>  sethm at loomcom.com


-- 
"As a general rule, the man in the habit of murdering  | Seth Morabito
bookbinders, though he performs a distinct service     | sethm at loomcom.com
to society, only wastes his own time and takes no      |
personal advantage."  -- Kenneth Grahame (1898)        |   Perth ==> *


From lars at nocrew.org  Tue May  9 17:25:55 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 09 May 2000 09:25:55 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: sjm's message of "Mon, 8 May 2000 15:02:40 -0700"
References: <20000508150240.A7092@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <85og6g18xo.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

I'm adding PDP-11 support to GNU binutils, and I need help on
classifying the instruction set.

I'm somewhat confused, because:

  PDP-11 FAQ says:
  11/45 introduced MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
  Later, 11/40 introduced SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT.  MUL, DIV, etc in
  EIS option.

  GCC pdp11.md and pdp11.c says:
  11/40 and 11/45 has SOB, SXT, XOR.
  11/45 has ASHC, MUL, DIV.
  All models has ASH.

  John Holden writes:
  11/40 and 11/45 has EIS and FPU instructions.
  11/40 had several options to add EIS, FIS and a MMU.

Does this mean that an unexpanded 11/40 has no EIS instructions,
but with the EIS option, it has more instructions than an 11/45?

GCC seems to think that all PDP-11 models has ASH, but this seems
wrong.  It's only in EIS, right?

So far, this is the classification I've come up with:

  BASIC: the basic instruction set.
  CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).
  EIS45: 11/45 extended instruction set: MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
  EIS40: 11/40 extended instruction set: EIS45 + SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT.
  FIS: FADD, FSUB, FMUL, and FDIV (opcodes 0x7a00..0x7bff).
  FPU: LDF, STF, LDCFF', STCFF', CMPF, LDEXP, STEXP, LDCIF, STCFI, MULF,
       MODF, ADDF, SUBF, and DIVF (opcodes 0xf000..0xffff).

Would this be correct?

FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 10 09:47:01 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:47:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Good news on the Ancient UNIX License front
In-Reply-To: <20000508150240.A7092@loomcom.com> from sjm at "May 8, 2000  3: 2:40 pm"
Message-ID: <200005092347.JAA89501@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by sjm:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've just received this mail from SCO.  I think it's appropriate to
> post here.
> 
> Apparently we can expect the Ancient UNIX License available on the
> SCO website by Friday (U.S. Pacific Time, I would suspect).  Very
> good news indeed!

I'm just back from a training course. I've seen a preview of the web site.
You get to click-thru the license agreement, then you have a set of hyperlinks
to the UNIX versions that SCO owns (5e, 6e, 7e, 32V, SysIII, Mini UNIX).

I'm still trying to work out an access method to the PUPS Archive with them,
but I think we're getting there.

So, you will get access to some UNIX source code soon, but access to the
PUPS Archive might be a week or so longer.

Cheers all!
	Warren

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 10 10:27:22 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:27:22 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PDP land
In-Reply-To: <20000505191242.A13087@ussenterprise.ufp.org> from Leo Bicknell at "May 5, 2000  7:12:42 pm"
Message-ID: <200005100027.KAA89955@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Leo Bicknell:
> 	I don't know if you remember me or not.  I believe we talked
> before when I was a student at Virginia Tech about Unix on a PDP-11/40
> that I had.  Alas, I had to let those machines go as I didn't have
> the time or space to keep them.
> 
> 	I went looking for PDP stuff on the web, and ran across your
> name again.  I thought I'd give you a whirl.  I'm now in a position to
> give real data center space to one or more of these beasts, and I would
> love to put a PDP-11 up on the net running old-school unix.
> 
> 	Any pointers as to where to find someone giving away or
> selling one of these beasts?
> 
> 	Thanks.
> Leo Bicknell - bicknell at ufp.org

Leo, I'm punting this on to the PUPS mailing list to see if you get any
nibbles. Go to http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/maillist.html to see
how to join. You could also try the Usenet newsgroups alt.sys.pdp11 and
vmsnet.pdp-11.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au  Wed May 10 10:37:51 2000
From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au (johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:37:51 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005100037.KAA11235@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>


The 11/45 has the base instruction set, plus EIS (MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL,
SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT). This was standard with the CPU, and the optional
floating point unit (another 4 cards in the backplane) added the floating
point instruction set.

The 11/40 has billions (Carl Sagans) of options. The minimal processor had
the base set, plus SOB, MARK, RTT, XOR and SXT. Processor options added extra
microcode and extra shift registers and counters to the data path.

	Option	Description
	KE11-E	EIS instruction set (ASH, ASHC, DIV, MUL)
	KE11-F	FIS instruction set (FDIV, FMUL, FADD, FSUB)
	KJ11-A	Stack limit register
	KT11-D	Memory management
	KW11-L	Line time clock

The processor options had dedicated slots, but lots of jumpers have to be
changed to enable them. Note that there are just four floating point
instructions (not directly compatible with any FPP instruction), and they
are not very PDP-11 like in their behaviour. The instructions have a three bit
address field to specify a register. The register points to a 'floating point
stack frame' that contains the arguments for the instruction in memory. The
floating point number format is the same as FPP.

When the original LSI-11 came out, it was modeled on 11/40, again with the
base instructions, plus SOB, MARK, RTT, XOR and SXT. EIS and FIS were options
in 'Microm Chips' (extra microcode). There was no memory management options
and it lacked an addressable PSW (processor status word) and switch register
(01777570).

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From johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au  Wed May 10 11:35:53 2000
From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au (johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:35:53 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <200005100135.LAA02228@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>


> lars brinkhoff wrote :-
> 
> I'm adding PDP-11 support to GNU binutils, and I need help on
> classifying the instruction set.

I forgot to mention a critical point. Any PDP-11 runing Unix (except very
early versions and Miniunix), and certainly from Edition 6 onwards, MUST have
EIS. Even the Unix bootstraps used EIS. So binaries built for Unix, will run
on a 11/34/35/40/44/45/50/53/55/60/70/73/83/84/93/94 !!

Floating point is a bit more problematic. The kernel (see crevat latter) didn't
require it, but had to save FP status and registers on context switches.
Quite a few processors had the FPP as an option, and so there was FPP emulation
build into the kernel (conditionally). There were versions of the C compiler
that had code tables for the FIS, to suit the 11/35/40.

I have a distant memory, that I have seen FPP instructions used for some
integer arithmetic for speed. I cannot recall if it was in the kernel or
C libraries. It was conditional, and may have been in the latter BSD versions,
but I don't have the source code online.


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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 10 11:50:31 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:50:31 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <85og6g18xo.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> from lars brinkhoff at "May 9, 2000  9:25:55 am"
Message-ID: <200005100150.LAA90764@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by lars brinkhoff:
> So far, this is the classification I've come up with:
> 
>   BASIC: the basic instruction set.
>   CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).
>   EIS45: 11/45 extended instruction set: MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
>   EIS40: 11/40 extended instruction set: EIS45 + SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT.
>   FIS: FADD, FSUB, FMUL, and FDIV (opcodes 0x7a00..0x7bff).
>   FPU: LDF, STF, LDCFF', STCFF', CMPF, LDEXP, STEXP, LDCIF, STCFI, MULF,
>        MODF, ADDF, SUBF, and DIVF (opcodes 0xf000..0xffff).
> 
> Would this be correct?
> 
> FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
> found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
> is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?

I've got some details on FADD, FSUB, FMUL, and FDIV. I could fax you the
relevant details from the processor handbook, and/or give you source code
from my Apout simulator.

FADD is instruction 07500x, ADDF is 1720xx. They are different.

I don't know enough about the CIS extensions. Can you name some of the
opcode names, so that I can look in the handbooks I have here: 04, 05, 10, 15,
20, 34, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 70.

	Warren

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Wed May 10 12:58:25 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:58:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005100258.TAA18914@moe.2bsd.com>

> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>
> I don't know enough about the CIS extensions. Can you name some of the
> opcode names, so that I can look in the handbooks I have here: 04, 05, 10, 15,
> 20, 34, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 70.

	The CIS was a quite expensive option that was only available (as I
	recall) on the 11/44 and the later KDJ-11 based systems (11/83 and up 
	where it occupied another socket on the cpu board).  

	The CIS instructions are:

		L2D
		L3D
		ADDP
		ADDN
		ADDNI
		ADDPI
		ASHN
		ASHP
		ASHNI
		ASHPI
		CMPC
		CMPCI
		CMPN
		CMPP
		CMPNI
		CMPPI
		CVTLN
		CVTLP
		CVTLNI
		CVTLPI
		CVTNL
		CVTPL
		CVTLNI
		CVTPLI
		CVTNP
		CVTPN
		CVTNPI
		CVTPNI
		DIVP
		DIVPI
		LOCC
		LOCCI
		MATC
		MATCI
		MOVC
		MOVCI
		MOVRC
		MOVRCI
		MOVTC
		MOVTCI
		MULP
		MULPI
		SCANC
		SCANCI
		SKPC
		SKPCI
		SPANC
		SPANCI
		SUBN
		SUBP
		SUBNI
		SUBPI

	Try the processor handbook that covers the 11/44+11/70  - I think
	that's where the CIS is described.

	At one time it looked like where I worked was going to get a CIS
	board for the 11/44 to help with the COBOL runtime we'd written/ported.
	It never came to be ;(   But I did add the opcodes to the assembler
	and did some initial coding in preparation for getting the CIS
	instructions.   You do a _lot_ of saving and restoring registers because
	the CIS instructions expect many of their operands to be in R2 thru R5
	(R0 and R1 were used for returning results).  That's a pretty high
	percentage (~100) of the available registers ;)

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Wed May 10 13:22:57 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <200005100322.UAA19095@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi --

> From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au
> I forgot to mention a critical point. Any PDP-11 runing Unix (except very
> early versions and Miniunix), and certainly from Edition 6 onwards, MUST have
> EIS. Even the Unix bootstraps used EIS. So binaries built for Unix, will run
> on a 11/34/35/40/44/45/50/53/55/60/70/73/83/84/93/94 !!

	Absolutely correct.  By the time Unix was making its way out of the
	lab and becoming commercially available (V7 and later for certain)
	the 11/70 was the target machine and while you could order an 11/70
	without floating point very few (that I saw) were bought that way.

	Even some of the DEC bootstraps used EIS - at least the later RSX-11D
	ones did.   At one site we couldn't boot the 11/45 into RSX-11D, it
	would crash part way thru the boot process.  The DEC folks would
	bring in their diagnostic disks and they would boot just fine.  Finally
	I insisted they run full cpu diagnostics and voila - the 'div' (or was
	it the 'ash' - been a looong time) instruction was failing.  The 
	diagnostic packs were RT11 based (I believe) and were meant to run
	on all processors rather than the 45 and up.

>Floating point is a bit more problematic. The kernel (see crevat latter) didn't
>require it, but had to save FP status and registers on context switches.

	The compiler also checks if any FP is done and generates references
	to special symbols as needed.   The linker can then link in dummy
	modules for parts of the 'printf' and int->floating conversion routines
	and save some space that way.   A kluge but on a small machine every
	half kb counts.

>Quite a few processors had the FPP as an option, and so there was FPP emulation

	The kernel (at least V7 and later) has special code in it to catch
	and ignore the illegal instruction 'setd' if no hardware FP is present.
	This is because the crt0 routine (which receives control from the
	kernel when a program is run) forces double precision mode in all
	programs.
	
	Some floating point simulators (V7's for example) ran in user mode 
	and caught the SIGILL signal).   I guess running slow instead of
	crashing is a plus but wow did that bog down the system immensely.
	Of course one of the programs that was used a lot was a Fortran
	one and f77 generates a *lot* of floating point code.  It wasn't just
	the emulation of the FP instructions (that would not have been too
	bad) but the overhead of the hundreds of signals and context switches
	was a system killer.

> build into the kernel (conditionally). There were versions of the C compiler
> that had code tables for the FIS, to suit the 11/35/40.

	2.10BSD and later have an in-kernel FP emulator - alas it doesn't
	work.  About the most I did was get it thru the assembler.  All the
	systems I have come with builtin FP.  At one time Tim Shoppa was
	going to take a stab at pulling the FP board out of his 11/44 and
	see about getting the emulator working - copious free time permitting
	of course ;)

> I have a distant memory, that I have seen FPP instructions used for some
> integer arithmetic for speed. I cannot recall if it was in the kernel or

	In the C library.   The kernel itself can't (or at least shouldn't)
	do floating point stuff because that might happen at interrupt level
	and trash the current user process (if any) context.

	The C library code (at least in 2.11) uses FP to do the 32 bit
	divide and multiply.  It's a lot faster (and much less code) to
	convert long to double, do the operations and then store&convert
	double back to int or long.   There might be one or two other cases
	but that was the primary use.

	And thereby hangs a bit of a tale.  The KDJ-11{A,B} handle faults
	during a stack push by a FP instruction differently than the 11/44 or
	11/70.   If you have access to the 2.11BSD bug archive (I know it's
	on 'ns.to.gd-es.com' and 'moe.2bsd.com' - not sure of who else is
	mirroring it) look for update #150 (Subject is "stack expansion bug
	on KDJ-11 cpus".

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Wed May 10 13:32:53 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005100332.UAA19137@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
> Does this mean that an unexpanded 11/40 has no EIS instructions,

	Quite correct. 

> but with the EIS option, it has more instructions than an 11/45?

	Adding the EIS brings an 11/40 to the same level as an 11/45 without
	floating point.

> GCC seems to think that all PDP-11 models has ASH, but this seems
> wrong.  It's only in EIS, right?

	Yes - that's part of the EIS.  Standard on the 11/45, 11/70 (and the
	later KDJ-11 systems such as the 11/53, 73, 83,etc)

>   CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).

	Not a popular option at all.  At the time DEC was trying to make the
	11 more of a COBOL machine but the CIS option was too little, too late
	and expensive (plus it wouldn't fit as I recall on a 11/70 - just the
	11/44 and newer).

	...
>        MODF, ADDF, SUBF, and DIVF (opcodes 0xf000..0xffff).
> 
> Would this be correct?

	Looks right to me.

> FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
> found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
> is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?
	
	Two different machines.  The FADD was part of the FIS option for the 
	11/40 only (I don't recall ever hearing of someone adding the FIS
	to a 11/45 or 70).  The 11/45, 70 and later all had the FPU 
	as an option or standard (the KDJ-11{A,B} had the instructions standard
	but you could buy (~$600 at the time) an accelerator chip to speed
	them up).   I don't think there were any models after the 11/70
	that used the FIS.

	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
	well - I forget).

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 16:56:04 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:56:04 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <200005100150.LAA90764@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510085424.22474D-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On Wed, 10 May 2000, Warren Toomey wrote:

> I don't know enough about the CIS extensions. Can you name some of the
> opcode names, so that I can look in the handbooks I have here: 04, 05, 10, 15,
> 20, 34, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 70.

You don't have a handbook for any machine that could have CIS then Warren.
It was only available for the 11/44 and F-11 based machines. (11/23 11/24)

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 17:02:40 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 09:02:40 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: "Steven M. Schultz"'s message of "Tue, 9 May 2000 20:32:53 -0700 (PDT)"
References: <200005100332.UAA19137@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-ID: <85g0rqzy3z.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

"Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com> writes:
>       There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
>       on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
>       well - I forget).

What bit pattern does that instruction have?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 17:11:24 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:11:24 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <200005100332.UAA19137@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510090352.22474E-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On Tue, 9 May 2000, Steven M. Schultz wrote:

Hi, all.

> > From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
...
> >   CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).
> 
> 	Not a popular option at all.  At the time DEC was trying to make the
> 	11 more of a COBOL machine but the CIS option was too little, too late
> 	and expensive (plus it wouldn't fit as I recall on a 11/70 - just the
> 	11/44 and newer).

Actually, not even those. It's the 11/44 and the KDF-11 based systems
only, which means 11/23 and 11/24.

...
> > FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
> > found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
> > is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?
> 	
> 	Two different machines.  The FADD was part of the FIS option for the 
> 	11/40 only (I don't recall ever hearing of someone adding the FIS
> 	to a 11/45 or 70).  The 11/45, 70 and later all had the FPU 
> 	as an option or standard (the KDJ-11{A,B} had the instructions standard
> 	but you could buy (~$600 at the time) an accelerator chip to speed
> 	them up).   I don't think there were any models after the 11/70
> 	that used the FIS.

FIS is only for 11/35, 11/40 and the LSI-11. And it's a real brain-damaged
thing too. Lucky us FPU came along.

> 	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
> 	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
> 	well - I forget).

Yes, CSM is in the J-11. There is also TSTSET in J11, but I wonder if
anyone uses it.

Speaking of CSM, by the way. Slighty off-topic perhaps, but in
RSX-11M-PLUS they used to have a rather complex way of getting to
supervisor mode in user programs, since the 11/70 didn't have CSM. Then
came the J-11, and DEC changed things around on systems having CSM to use
this instruction instead. It turned out that this improved code quite a
lot, so they implemented the CSM instruction by emulation on the 11/70 as
well.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 17:41:31 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 09:41:31 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of "Wed, 10 May 2000 09:11:24 +0200 (MET DST)"
References: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510090352.22474E-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <85bt2ezwb8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > 	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
> > 	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
> > 	well - I forget).
> 
> Yes, CSM is in the J-11. There is also TSTSET in J11, but I wonder if
> anyone uses it.

Ok, so CSM is found in 11/44 and J11 machines?

And TSTSET is found only in J11?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 17:46:50 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:46:50 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <85bt2ezwb8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510094549.22474H-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 10 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

> Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > > 	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
> > > 	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
> > > 	well - I forget).
> > 
> > Yes, CSM is in the J-11. There is also TSTSET in J11, but I wonder if
> > anyone uses it.
> 
> Ok, so CSM is found in 11/44 and J11 machines?

Yes.

> And TSTSET is found only in J11?

Yes.
I think that the J11 had one or two other new instructions as well, but
I'll have to look it up at home, unless someone beats me to it.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 18:01:44 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 10:01:44 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of "Wed, 10 May 2000 09:46:50 +0200 (MET DST)"
References: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510094549.22474H-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <857ld2zvdj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > And TSTSET is found only in J11?
> Yes.
> I think that the J11 had one or two other new instructions as well, but
> I'll have to look it up at home, unless someone beats me to it.

WRTLCK perhaps?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 20:55:32 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:55:32 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <857ld2zvdj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510125423.22474I-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 10 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

> Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > > And TSTSET is found only in J11?
> > Yes.
> > I think that the J11 had one or two other new instructions as well, but
> > I'll have to look it up at home, unless someone beats me to it.
> 
> WRTLCK perhaps?

Yup. That sounds familiar. The J11 have several design features aimed at
multi-processor systems. None were produced, however.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 23:02:04 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 15:02:04 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: "Steven M. Schultz"'s message of "Tue, 9 May 2000 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)"
Message-ID: <85snvqy2wj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Ok, I've tried to collect all information and make a handy table.
I've also looked quit a bit at the processor feature table at
http://www.pdp11.org/mirrors/www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/table.html

Could you please check that this table is correct?  In particular,
some features may be optional instead of standard (yes) or missing
(no), or vice versa.

Some models are listed as (see XXX), where XXX is a CPU model used in
that machine.  Are there more opportunities for doing that?  It would
be nice to have two tables: "Machine model 11/NN used CPU models X11 or
Y11."  "CPU model X11 had features A, B , and C."  Or something like
that.

Model	EIS	EIS40	CSM	TSTSET,	FPP	CIS	FIS
				WRTLCK

03	(see LSI11) (LSI-11 or LSI-11/2)
04	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
05	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
10	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
15	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
20	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
21	(see T11)
23	(see F11)
24	(see F11)
34	yes	yes	no	no	yes	no	no
35	opt	yes	no	no	no?	no	opt
40	opt	yes	no	no	no	no?	opt
44	yes	yes	yes	no	opt	opt     no?
45      (see KB11)
50      (see KB11)
53	(see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
55      (see KB11+) (KB-11D)
60	yes	yes	no	no	yes[2]	no	no
70	(see KB11+) (KB-11B or KB-11C)
73	(see J11) (KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B)
83	(see J11) (KDJ-11B?C?)
84	(see J11) (KDJ-11B?C?)
93	(see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
94	(see J11) (KDJ-11D?)

KB11	yes	yes	no	no	opt	no	no
KB11+   yes	yes	no	no	yes[1]	no	no
J11	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	opt	no
LSI11	opt	yes	no	no	no	no	opt
T11	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
F11	yes	yes	no	no	opt	opt	no

[1] = really optional, but most shipped with fpp
[2] = microcoded fpp standard, accelerated hardware fpp optional

EIS = RTT, SPL, MARK, SXT, MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, XOR, SOB
EIS40 = RTT, MARK, SXT, XOR, SOB
FPP = CFCC, SETF, SETI, SETD, SETL, LDFPS, STFPS, STST, CLRF,
      TSTF, ABSF, NEGF, MULF, MODF, ADDF, LDF, SUBF, CMPF, STF,
      DIVF, STEXP, STCFI, STCFF', LDEXP, LDCIF, LDCFF'
CIS = L2D, L3D, ADDP, ADDN, ADDNI, ADDPI, ASHN, ASHP, ASHNI,
      ASHPI, CMPC, CMPCI, CMPN, CMPP, CMPNI, CMPPI, CVTLN,
      CVTLP, CVT, CVTLNI, CVTLPI, CVTNL, CVTPL, CVLNI, CVTPLI,
      CVTNP, CVTPN, CVTNPI, CVTPNI, DIVP, DIVPI, LOCC, LOCCI,
      MATC, MATCI, MOVC, MOVCI, MOVRC, MOVRCI, MOVTC, MOVTCI,
      MULP, MULPI, SCANC, SCANCI, SKPC, SKPCI, SPANC, SPANCI,
      SUBN, SUBP, SUBNI, SUBPI
FIS = FADD, FDIV, FMUL, FSUB

KB11 = KB-11
KB11+ = KB-11B, KB-11C, or KB-11D
J11 = KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B
LSI11 = LSI-11 or LSI-11/2
T11 = ?
F11 = ?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Thu May 11 00:15:55 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:15:55 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <85snvqy2wj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510154632.22474K-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 10 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

[table deleted...]

First I think it's wrong of you to call the limited EIS stuff implemented
by default on the 11/40 "EIS40". It's just that parts of the EIS was
always available, with or without the optional EIS.

Second, the FPU implemented in the 11/60 was a bit special, and not
compatible with the normal FPU, which was an option. I'm not aware of
anything that used the 11/60 internal FPU stuff.
Specifically, it used the normal processor registers for operations, and I
don't remember exactly if the data format was compatible, but it didn't
have double precision at all. I can probably dig up specific details if
you are interested. I think I have a processor handbook for the 11/60
somewhere.

About processor names:

KA11 was the 11/15 and 11/20.
KB11-A was the 11/45, 11/50.
KB11-B was the 11/70.
KB11-C was the 11/70.
KB11-D was the 11/55.
KB11-Cm and KB-11E was the never produced 11/74.
KD11-A was the 11/35 and 11/40.
KD11-B was the 11/05 and 11/10.
KD11-D was the 11/04.
KD11-E was the 11/34.
KD11-EA was the 11/34a.
KD11-[FHQ] was the 11/03.
KD11-HA was the LSI-11/2.
KD11-K was the 11/60.
KD11-Z was the 11/44.

KDF11 is F-11 based.
KDJ11 is J-11 based.

All as far as I can glean from various sources.
KE11 is not a processor, but instead different processor options, such as
EIS, FIS, EAE and such.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From pat at transarc.ibm.com  Thu May 11 01:37:51 2000
From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:37:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <200005100135.LAA02228@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000510111921.6129B-100000@smithfield.transarc.ibm.com>

On Wed, 10 May 2000 johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au wrote:
> 
> Floating point is a bit more problematic. The kernel (see crevat latter) didn't
> require it, but had to save FP status and registers on context switches.
> Quite a few processors had the FPP as an option, and so there was FPP emulation
> build into the kernel (conditionally). There were versions of the C compiler
> that had code tables for the FIS, to suit the 11/35/40.
> 

This discussion brings back memories ... I once found a bug in the kernel
floating-point stuff on V7m on an 11/40 (without FIS).  Turned out that,
if you took a zero-length file, chmod'ed it to be executable, and then
tried to run it, the kernel would take a path through the code that it
didn't normally take, in which it tried to save the *real* FP registers -
which were not there, and attempting to touch the missing registers would
panic the machine.

I found this while I was a lab assistant for a computer architecture
course, taking care of this 11/40 that the department had just aquired
(another department was about to discard it, so we picked it up ...), and
which was being used by students learning assembly language programming.
As you might imagine, these folks generated zero-length a.out files *all
the time* (since that's what 'as' would sometimes output if your source
code had errors in it), and sometimes they'd try to execute them.
Therefore, the machine was crashing a couple of times a day until I found
and fixed the bug ...

--Pat.



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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Thu May 11 02:20:58 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005101620.JAA28584@moe.2bsd.com>

From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
>>       There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was

> What bit pattern does that instruction have?

	070DD

	It's a single operand instruction.

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com  Thu May 11 03:06:12 2000
From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:06:12 -0400
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <000510130612.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>

>Some models are listed as (see XXX), where XXX is a CPU model used in
>that machine.  Are there more opportunities for doing that?  It would
>be nice to have two tables: "Machine model 11/NN used CPU models X11 or
>Y11."  "CPU model X11 had features A, B , and C."  Or something like
>that.

It's complicated by the fact that often the same CPU module was used in
differently DEC-labeled systems.  For example, a late-rev KDJ11B with
PMI memory in a Q-bus is an 11/83; the exact same CPU board with non-PMI
memory in a Q-bus is an 11/73.  And the exact same CPU board in a very
different backplane is an 11/84.

And an 11/73 can also have a KDJ11A in it, a very different module.
See Micronote #39.

At one point I began writing up a "KDJ11-x" FAQ, but never got it
finished.  There are many variations between different revs of the
J11 CPU chip and the boards, especially with respect to whether
FPJ11's work properly or not.  Many (but not all) of the KDJ11 differences
are well described in Micronote #39, _KDJ11-A and KDJ11-B Differences_.

(Side hint: everyone should have a copy of the Micronotes.  If you don't
have a printed set, you can read them online at

  http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/

by clicking on "Micronotes").

>53     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)

Yes, the 11/53 is a KDJ11-D.

>93     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
>94     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)

93's and 94's are KDJ11-E's.

>J11 = KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B

And lots of other systems.  Some DEC peripherals (most noticably the
early HSC storage controllers for VAXclusters) have J11's, several Xerox
laserprinters used J11's, DEC PRO380's used J11's.  Many third-party
CPU boards use J11's, it's not unusual to see them scrounging the used
market for HSC's to strip the J11 from, as the HSC's generally had late-rev
J11's.  (And Harris hasn't made the J11 chips for many years now.)

>T11 = ?

Never sold as a "PDP-11" system, though the chip does implement the
basic PDP-11 instruction set (and some of the add-ons.)  It was sold
by DEC in the KXT11-CA single board computer, which had a T11, 32K RAM,
up to 32K of EPROM, 3 serial lines, some parallel I/O, and a Q-bus
interface.  For more information see

  Micronote #16, _KXT11-CA Development Tools_

  Micronote #18, _KXT11-CA DMA Programming_

  Micronote #32, _KXT11-CA Parallel I/O_

  Micronote #34, _Programming KXT-11C Multi SLU_

You can find T11 chips in several Q-bus and Unibus peripherals, most notably
the RQDX1, 2, and 3 (the chip labeled "27-17311-01").

>F11 = ?

aka "Fonz-11", the CPU chipset used in 11/23's, 11/24's, the lower-end
DEC PRO's, etc.

The CPU chipset used in the LSI-11/02 and /03 is a Western Digital chipset,
and the same set was used (with different microcode) by other CPU makers.
In particular, the Alpha Micro two-board S-100 set.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927



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From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu May 11 04:03:35 2000
From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp at world.std.com)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:03:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <000510130612.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000510135452.6336D-100000@world.std.com>

> 
> >53     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
> 
> Yes, the 11/53 is a KDJ11-D.

Not KDF-11B????

> And lots of other systems.  Some DEC peripherals (most noticably the
> early HSC storage controllers for VAXclusters) have J11's, several Xerox

HSC was F11, J11 or T11???  I thought T11 or f11 in the early models.

> laserprinters used J11's, DEC PRO380's used J11's.  Many third-party
> CPU boards use J11's, it's not unusual to see them scrounging the used
> market for HSC's to strip the J11 from, as the HSC's generally had late-rev
> J11's.  (And Harris hasn't made the J11 chips for many years now.)

> >T11 = ?
> 
> Never sold as a "PDP-11" system, though the chip does implement the
> basic PDP-11 instruction set (and some of the add-ons.)  It was sold
> by DEC in the KXT11-CA single board computer, which had a T11, 32K RAM,
> up to 32K of EPROM, 3 serial lines, some parallel I/O, and a Q-bus
> interface.  For more information see
> 

You forget the falcon card KXT-11A, That with two MXT11 memory IO combo
have you 32kw ram, 4 serial, boot and some parallel that would run rt-11.

From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com  Thu May 11 04:16:15 2000
From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:16:15 -0400
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <000510141615.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>

>> Yes, the 11/53 is a KDJ11-D.

>Not KDF-11B????

The KDF11-B (why are people putting the hyphens in all the wrong places?) is
the quad-height 11/23 with two SLU's and boot ROM.

Tim.


From johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au  Thu May 11 09:23:18 2000
From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au (johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:23:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PDP-11 Processor features/options (was HELP PDP-11 instruction)
Message-ID: <200005102323.JAA29607@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>


I have updated my web page, fixing a few typos, and made more distinctions
between various processors, along with a table of 'obscure instructions'.

	http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/table.html

Does anyone out there know the internal implementation details of the J11
chip. I assume it's micro sequenced, but what is the micro word length?


PS

I have found the 'PDP-11 Family Differences Table' (in the PDP-11 Architecture
Handbook and others) to be wrong in several places.

						Regards John


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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Thu May 11 15:56:02 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:56:02 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <000510130612.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000511075207.6110D-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On Wed, 10 May 2000, Tim Shoppa wrote:

> >J11 = KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B
> 
> And lots of other systems.  Some DEC peripherals (most noticably the
> early HSC storage controllers for VAXclusters) have J11's, several Xerox
> laserprinters used J11's, DEC PRO380's used J11's.  Many third-party
> CPU boards use J11's, it's not unusual to see them scrounging the used
> market for HSC's to strip the J11 from, as the HSC's generally had late-rev
> J11's.  (And Harris hasn't made the J11 chips for many years now.)

Actually, the first HSCs (HSC-50 and HSC-70) have an F11. Hmmm, a bit
unsure about the HSC-70 come to think of it. The HSC-50 is definitely F-11
anyway, and that's the oldest one. Boots of DECtape II. Slow as hell
because of it. :-)

> You can find T11 chips in several Q-bus and Unibus peripherals, most notably
> the RQDX1, 2, and 3 (the chip labeled "27-17311-01").

What cpu is in the DEUNA and DEQNA? I think those also have a T11.

> The CPU chipset used in the LSI-11/02 and /03 is a Western Digital chipset,
> and the same set was used (with different microcode) by other CPU makers.
> In particular, the Alpha Micro two-board S-100 set.

And I think DEC even supported the possibility of writing your own
microcode for this one.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Thu May 11 16:20:51 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 11 May 2000 08:20:51 +0200
Subject: Obscure opcodes
In-Reply-To: johnh@psych.usyd.edu.au's message of "Thu, 11 May 2000 09:23:18 +1000 (EST)"
Message-ID: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Does anyone know that bit patterns these instructions use:
        commercial instruction set,
        FADD, FDIV, FMUL, FDIV, (and any other FIS instructions if any),
        LDUB, MED, XFC
?

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From rivie at teraglobal.com  Thu May 11 22:03:35 2000
From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:03:35 -0600
Subject: Obscure opcodes
In-Reply-To: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
References: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <v04210103b5404dc720f4@[10.10.50.26]>

>Does anyone know that bit patterns these instructions use:
>        commercial instruction set,

According to the PDP11/04/34a/44/60/70 processor handbook
(1979-1980),

addn 076050
addp 076070
addni 076150
addpi 076170

ashn 076056
ashp 076076
ashni 076156
ashpi 076176

cmpc 076044
cmpci 076144

cmpn 076052
cmpp 076072
cmpni 076152
cmppi 076172

cvtln 076057
cvtlp 076077
cvtlni 076157
cvtlpi 076177

cvtnl 076053
cvtpl 076073
cvtnli 076153
cvtpli 076173

cvtnp 076055
cvtpn 076054
cvtnpi 076155
cvtpni 076154

divp 076075
divpi 076175

locc 076040
locci 076140

l2dr 07602r

l3dr 07606r

matc 076045
matci 076145

movc 076030
movci 076130

movrc 076031
movrci 076131

movtc 076032
movtci 076132

mulp 076074
mulpi 076174

scanc 076042
scanci 076142

skpc 076041
skpci 076141

spanc 076043
spanci 076143

subn 076051
subp 076071
subni 076151
subpi 076171

>        FADD, FDIV, FMUL, FDIV, (and any other FIS instructions if any),

According to Microcomputer Handbook (1977-1978):

fadd 07500r
fsub 07501r
fmul 07502r
fdiv 07503r

and those are the only instructions listed under FIS.

>        LDUB, MED, XFC
>?

Back to 11/04/34a/44/60/70:

med 076600
ldub 170003
xfc 0767xy
  - x = "used for initial instruction group determination",
  - y = "further instruction determination"
     (this is a user-defined instruction via writable microcode in the 11/60).

-- 
Roger Ivie
TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
1750 North Research Park Way
North Logan, UT 84341
Phone: (435)787-0555
Fax: (435)787-0516

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From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com  Thu May 11 22:37:50 2000
From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 8:37:50 -0400
Subject: Obscure opcodes
Message-ID: <000511083750.20203768@trailing-edge.com>

>>        LDUB, MED, XFC
>>?

>Back to 11/04/34a/44/60/70:
>
>med 076600

The MED instruction is used in RT-11 to determine if the machine is an
11/60.  It's probably also used in the 11/60-specific XXDP diagnostics.
I don't think that it's used in any of the -11 Unices.

Note that MED is really a two-word-long instruction.

>ldub 170003

My 11/60 Processor Handbook also lists MNS (170004), MNP (170005), and
MAS (170006).  These are "11/60 FP11-E Maintenance Instructions" and
"This set together with the LDUB instruction should be used for diagnostic
purposes only" according to the 11/60 book.

Note that no version of DEC MACRO-11 recognizes MNS, MNP, MAS, or LDUB.

The MED instruction is recognized in MACRO-11 only as MED6X.  The "6X"
jibes with the rumored existence of experimental variants on the 11/60
processor, one of which is the multi-processor 11/64.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927


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From lars at nocrew.org  Thu May 11 22:37:48 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 11 May 2000 14:37:48 +0200
Subject: Obscure opcodes
In-Reply-To: Roger Ivie's message of "Thu, 11 May 2000 06:03:35 -0600"
References: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <v04210103b5404dc720f4@[10.10.50.26]>
Message-ID: <857ld1w9cz.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Thank you all, now I have all the opcode information I need!

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From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu May 11 23:25:45 2000
From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp at world.std.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:25:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000511075207.6110D-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000511092245.25873A-100000@world.std.com>

> > You can find T11 chips in several Q-bus and Unibus peripherals, most notably
> > the RQDX1, 2, and 3 (the chip labeled "27-17311-01").
> 
> What cpu is in the DEUNA and DEQNA? I think those also have a T11.

I thought DEUNA was 68k and DEQNA is definatly state machines and random
logic no t11.  DELQA is 68k.

> > and the same set was used (with different microcode) by other CPU makers.
> > In particular, the Alpha Micro two-board S-100 set.
> 
> And I think DEC even supported the possibility of writing your own
> microcode for this one.

Yes there was a WCS that filled the FIS microm spot (and a full board
under it).

Allison




From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 12 08:30:56 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:30:56 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Also: PUPS mailing list digest
Message-ID: <200005112230.IAA03356@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Looks like we've got a spurt of email in the PUPS mailing list. For those
unaccustomed to this, you might prefer to switch over to the digest version
which comes out at most twice a week. To do this, send mail to
majordomo at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au with these lines in the email body:

	unsubscribe pups
	subscribe pups-digest

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Sat May 13 14:53:14 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 14:53:14 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Some changes forecast for the PUPS Archive & web site
Message-ID: <200005130453.OAA15226@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

[ apologies to those who get this twice ]

Hi all, I just thought I'd let you know that there will be some changes
with the PUPS Archive and the web site coming along soon.

As you know, SCO has dropped their Ancient UNIX license to $0.00. In a
matter of days, they will provide a web form on their web site so that
you can agree to the license. After you have done this, you will be
able to obtain 5th-7th Edition UNIX, 32V, Mini UNIX and PDP-11 System III
from their web site.

I am hoping that you will also be able to click through to a CGI script
on the PUPS web site, where you can put in your full name and e-mail
address, and you will be granted access to the larger PUPS Archive. I
need to collect name/e-mail addresses, so that later if you ask for a copy
of the Archive on CD or other media, we can verify that you have agreed
to the new SCO license.

I am modifying the PUPS Archive so that it will be accessible via both
FTP and HTTP. The access mechanism will also allow mirrors of the Archive
to be set up. SO: if you have a good 24-hr/day network connection and
about 1G of disk space available, I would be most grateful if you could
set up a mirror of the PUPS Archive.

The mechanism to request PUPS on CD has been streamlined, but it still
depends on volunteers to help out with the copying. If you can volunteer
to do this as well, we would be most grateful. We will be even more
grateful once the free SCO license gets Slashdotted :-)

One thing I definitely need to do is to tidy up and/or reorganise the
PUPS web site at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS. I'll try to do this
over the next 6-8 weeks. Any suggestions or comments are welcome!

The PUPS Archive itself needs some attention. For example, some of the
systems like PWB, 32V and System III are either incomplete or haven't
been fuly extracted into a portable format like tar. I would welcome any
offers to help curate & fix up the archive.

When this _does_ get slashdotted, and it will, the first thing people
will want to do is either view the old source, or bring up the old
versions. Is there a volunteer who would like to bring the disk
images in Boot_Images up to date, and provide better instructions so
that a PDP-newbie can boot V5, V6, V7, 2.11BSD on the common emulators
such as Ersatz, Supnik, Begemot etc.

And finally, the machine running the PUPS Archive, minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au,
will be replaced in the next week or two. Currently, minnie is a 486DX100,
and I have a Celeron 400 with FreeBSD 4.0 installed as her replacement.
There will be some broken functionality after I switch over, knowing Murphy's
Law. Please e-mail me with details if you spot something that isn't right.

That's about it. There's a lot to do. I'd love some help :-)

Cheers!
	Warren


From ecollins at outstart.com  Sun May 14 15:46:34 2000
From: ecollins at outstart.com (Efton Collins)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:46:34 -0400
Subject: SCO site has Unix for download
Message-ID: <NEBBKFAJOMCEBIKOHMMHKEBMCAAA.ecollins@outstart.com>

Hey,

You may have seen it already, but I haven't seen an announcement on the
PUPS list -

SCO has got Unix 5th, 6th and 7th Editions, Mini Unix, System III and 32V
available on their site for download. You can access them by going to
www.sco.com/offers/ancient.html and accepting the license.

Congratulations PUPS, this is a milestone.

Efton



From lars at nocrew.org  Mon May 15 17:47:01 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 15 May 2000 09:47:01 +0200
Subject: WWW page for PDP-11 support in GNU binutils
In-Reply-To: "Efton Collins"'s message of "Sun, 14 May 2000 01:46:34 -0400"
Message-ID: <85zopss1ai.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

I created a page to reflect the progress of the PDP-11 support in
GNU binutils:
        http://pdp11.nocrew.org/

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Mon May 15 18:56:24 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:56:24 +1000 (EST)
Subject: WWW page for PDP-11 support in GNU binutils
In-Reply-To: <85zopss1ai.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> from lars brinkhoff at "May 15, 2000  9:47: 1 am"
Message-ID: <200005150856.SAA31129@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by lars brinkhoff:
> I created a page to reflect the progress of the PDP-11 support in
> GNU binutils:
>         http://pdp11.nocrew.org/

Thanks Lars. Now that Minix is freely available, some of the applications
there could be easily ported over to the PDP-11.

Ciao,
	Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue May 16 08:36:49 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:36:49 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PUPS Archive access now available
Message-ID: <200005152236.IAA34383@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

All,
	Access to The PUPS Archive can now be obtained with no human
intervention. Go to http://www.sco.com/offers/ancient.html, agree to the
SCO license. On the next page, click on `apply for access to the PUPS Archive'.
Fill in your full name and e-mail address, and you will be given immediate
access to the archive.

I'm arranging for at least one mirror of the PUPS Archive in the USA.
More would be welcome :-) Let me know if you can help!

At present, the PUPS Archive can be accessed by FTP, HTTP and rsync.

No more paper licenses, no more 6 week wait, yayy!!!

Cheers,
	Warren

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From frank at panix.com  Wed May 17 00:34:32 2000
From: frank at panix.com (Frank Wortner)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:34:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: A Public Thank You
In-Reply-To: <200005142045.GAA10926@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0005160929210.10013-100000@panix6.panix.com>

I just signed up for my free(!) SCO Ancient Unix license.  It's great fun
to be able to explore again the code I first saw and worked on as a
student all too many years ago.  It seems only right to thank those who
gave me access to this resource.

Thank you,  Warren,  for your work in convincing SCO to make this
possible.  Also thanks for the archives,  the mailing list,  the idea,
and everything else.

Thank you,  SCO,  for seeing the historic value of the code and generously
making it available to enthusiasts.  SCO's attitude towards this legacy is
extremely rare amoung corporations,  and they deserve our gratitude.

Thanks also to everyone who contributed material to the PUPS archive.
In the face of such generousity I'm sorry I don't have (or think I don't
have) any material left from the PDP-11 era to add to the collection.

And now,  back to wallowing in PDP-11 nostalgia.  :-)

Frank Wortner




From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 17 08:19:45 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:19:45 +1000 (EST)
Subject: A Public Thank You
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0005160929210.10013-100000@panix6.panix.com> from Frank Wortner at "May 16, 2000 10:34:32 am"
Message-ID: <200005162219.IAA41705@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Frank Wortner:
> I just signed up for my free(!) SCO Ancient Unix license.  It's great fun
> to be able to explore again the code I first saw and worked on as a
> student all too many years ago.  It seems only right to thank those who
> gave me access to this resource.
> Frank Wortner

I'd like to add some thanks to Frank's list.

Thanks to those people who forked out their US$100 for the paper SCO license.
It's a shame you can't get a refund. At least you have a real, signed,
license that you can wave at your friends :-)

Our first contact at SCO, Dion Johnson, fought with bureacracy and the legal
naysayers to get us the first SCO license. Thanks, Dion!

We have a lot of PUPS Volunteers behind the scenes who have been burning CDs
and other media in the past 2-3 years. With the free license, they're going
to get much busier, but are still volunteers. Everybody who has received a
CD should congratulate these people. Soren Jorvang in particular deserves
thanks.

Hint: if you have a CD burner, YOUR HELP IS URGENTLY REQUIRED. Email me!

Finally, the bulk of the files in the archive were donated by a few people:
Dennis Ritchie, Henry Spencer, Keith Bostic, Tim Shoppa, Steven Schultz
and Kirk McKusick are the most notable. Thanks to all those who have
donated old files and information to the archive!

Some quick stats: 100+ people have obtained for PUPS Archive access in the
last 24 hours. Web activity was 1.2G, compared to a usual 36M, in the last
24 hours. Haven't checked ftp yet. Not bad for a 486! I'm switching over to
the Celeron today, so expect a few hours of downtime and a few glitches.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Thu May 18 16:52:01 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:52:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: test mail for new PUPS list
Message-ID: <200005180652.QAA50687@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

The PUPS list, web site & Archive has migrated to a Celeron. Just some test
mail to confirm that the mailing list still works. Please ignore. Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Sun May 21 16:10:21 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:10:21 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Ultrix V3.1 broken
Message-ID: <200005210610.QAA72885@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

----- Forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----

	From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>

While investigating building a Ultrix V3.1 tape I discovered that the file
on the archive is corrupt.

	Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz

	File 34: The ULTRIX-11 /usr file system in dump/restor format

	Zane
----- End of forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----

Wilko Bulte sent that in to the PUPS Archive. Wilko, do you still have the
tape. Can you try to read it again?!

Cheers,
	Warren

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From wkb at chello.nl  Sun May 21 20:50:59 2000
From: wkb at chello.nl (Wilko Bulte)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:50:59 +0000
Subject: Ultrix V3.1 broken
In-Reply-To: <200005210610.QAA72885@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>; from wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au on Sun, May 21, 2000 at 04:10:21PM +1000
References: <200005210610.QAA72885@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20000521105059.A21186@freebie.wbnet>

On Sun, May 21, 2000 at 04:10:21PM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:


Warren,

When I untar the .tgz I get files named tapeblock[0-33]
In tapeblock4 is an index of the original tape, which lists the
various files on the tape. These are numbered *1* til *34*

I think this is just an off by one thing, because there is no tapeblock34
at all.

Please check if this is the case. I don't have any PDP operational so I
cannot verify the contents of tapeblock33. But I'm pretty sure this is /usr

W/


> ----- Forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----
> 
> 	From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
> 
> While investigating building a Ultrix V3.1 tape I discovered that the file
> on the archive is corrupt.
> 
> 	Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz
> 
> 	File 34: The ULTRIX-11 /usr file system in dump/restor format
> 
> 	Zane
> ----- End of forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----
> 
> Wilko Bulte sent that in to the PUPS Archive. Wilko, do you still have the
> tape. Can you try to read it again?!
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren
---end quoted text---

-- 
Wilko Bulte 	FreeBSD, the power to serve  	http://www.freebsd.org


From dave at fgh.geac.com.au  Mon May 22 16:39:32 2000
From: dave at fgh.geac.com.au (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:39:32 +1000 (EST)
Subject: ACMS, Questions on Internet History. (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0005221634220.26282-100000@fgh.geac.com.au>

Perhaps some of the learned people on this list can help this chappie
out?  The ACMS is the Australian Computer Museum Society, and could in
turn be a valuable resource for this list; note that he signs himself
as a "PDP-11 Support Consultant"...

Replies to him, please, unless deemed of interest to the list.

-- 
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU  dave at geac.com.au  Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:53:26
From: John  G E R E M I N <megajohn at sneaker.net.au>
To: ACS NSW List <acsnsw-l at onelist.com>
Subject: ACMS, Questions on Internet History.

Greetings All,  (from a Netscape v3, Eudora and Win-3.11 system),

The ACMS has been asked about the History Of The Internet In Australia.

This assumes that the 'Internet' is defined as using IP protocols,
 and the World-Wide-Web that provided permanent (or semi-permanent)
 connections between major nodes and the end-users.

We also know that DEC had world-wide DECNET for its corporate use.
We know that U**X systems had FTP, TELNET etc available on systems
  using fixed line connections (eg within Unis, etc).

We know about the ArpaNet origins (we hope)

We know? that the first Internet users here were the CSIRO and Unis.
But were they connected initially to the overseas Internet ?

So some questions, designed to sort out some confusions.
First hand experiences would be good as would pointers to documentation.

	Note - all these relate to Australia (but answers may include 
		info relating to overseas contexts).

  a1	First use of Fido-Net or other BBS using Dial-up messaging ?

  a2	First use of E-MAIL via FidoNet or other BBS ?

  a3	First use of FreeWare/File Distribution via FidoNet or other BBS ?

  a4	First use of Message/Conference Areas/Groups on BBS ?
 
  b1	First use of permanent IP addresses ?

  b2	First use of E-MAIL via IP addresses ?

  b3	First use of File Transfers via Internet ?

  b4	First use of NewsGroups via Internet ?

  b5	First use of Graphical Displays via Internet ?

  b6	First use of 'http://www' type URL addressing via Internet ?

  b7	First use of two-way (interactive) audio via Internet ?

  b8	First use of two-way (intereactive) video via Internet ?

  c1	Any other major Internet milestones in the Australian environment ?


Many thanks, John G. (PS you don't need to answer all questions!) 

 John GEREMIN, megajohn at sneaker.net.au   Ph. 02-9764 4855
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 PDP-11 Support Consultant, MEGATRONICS, Australia.
http://www.posit.com.au/megatronics/  NEW Mob. => 0427 10 20 60 <=

Hon. Treasurer, Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM Society Inc.
 http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/     Fax: 02-9764 4679
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 



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From jfoust at threedee.com  Mon May 22 23:54:53 2000
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:54:53 -0500
Subject: ACMS, Questions on Internet History. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0005221634220.26282-100000@fgh.geac.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000522085035.01c28580@pc>

At 04:39 PM 5/22/00 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
>   a1    First use of Fido-Net or other BBS using Dial-up messaging ?
>   a2    First use of E-MAIL via FidoNet or other BBS ?
>   a3    First use of FreeWare/File Distribution via FidoNet or other BBS ?

Tom Jennings, the creator of FidoNet, is still available at
<tomj at wps.com> and there's a history at 
http://wps.com/FidoNet/source/Fido-FidoNet/fhist.html.

Tom is now moderating the Dead Media Project at
http://wps.com/dead-media/index.html.

But by no means was FidoNet the first BBS.

- John



From jeff+pups at websitefactory.net  Thu May 25 05:02:07 2000
From: jeff+pups at websitefactory.net (Jeff Johnson)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:02:07 -0400
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
Message-ID: <156904.3168169327@kevlar.websitefactory.net>


Hey guys.  I've got a VAXstation 2000 with 12MB of RAM, and two RD54 drives,
one of which is developing bad sectors (the secondary).  I've got the
eight bitplane graphics card and no terminal available.  I'd really love to
get a copy of Ultrix 4.2 installed on this machine, but from what I can
tell it isn't available.  I also don't have a TK50 or any external storage,
so it looks like I'll be netbooting.

The machine currently has OpenVMS 7.2 on it which I can re-license and get
running if it would help for an install.  I've had almost no success with
NetBSD either.  The only kernel that would boot was a 1.3 snapshot release.
All of the 1.4 kernels crap out immediately upon booting, and nobodys seems
to be able to help me.

Also, if anyone has a source for additional expansion for this machine, I'd
be grateful.  Thanks very much for your time.  I really want to get this
machine up and running again.

--
Jeffrey H. Johnson - jeff at websitefactory.net - System Administration - TrN
Barnet Worldwide Enterprises - The Website Factory - www.websitefactory.net


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Thu May 25 10:23:26 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:23:26 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
In-Reply-To: <156904.3168169327@kevlar.websitefactory.net> from Jeff Johnson at "May 24, 2000  3: 2: 7 pm"
Message-ID: <200005250023.KAA01576@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Jeff Johnson:
> 
> Hey guys.  I've got a VAXstation 2000 with 12MB of RAM, and two RD54 drives,
> eight bitplane graphics card and no terminal available.  I'd really love to
> get a copy of Ultrix 4.2 installed on this machine.

I'd recommend you look into the Quasijarus project at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/

and join their mailing list by sending a request to Michael Sokolov:
msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG

Cheers,
	Warren

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Thu May 25 13:27:42 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Wed, 24 May 00 22:27:42 CDT
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
Message-ID: <0005250327.AA15849@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

Jeff Johnson <jeff+pups at websitefactory.net> wrote:

> I've got a VAXstation 2000 with 12MB of RAM, and two RD54 drives,
> one of which is developing bad sectors (the secondary).  I've got the
> eight bitplane graphics card and no terminal available.

Two RD54s? At least one of them must be external then, as there's only room for
one full-height device in the VS2K box itself. I'm going to assume that you
have the standard DEC configuration with one RD54 internal and an expansion
adapter (pizza box) at the bottom with the 2nd external RD54 connected to it.
Hey, except for the lack of TK50Z, you've got pretty much the maximum
configuration from DEC for VS2K: maximum memory, maximum number of disks of
top-of-the-line type, expansion adapter, and top-of-the-line graphics card!

On your expansion adapter, right next to the connector for the external RD54,
you should see a 50-lead Amphenol (aka Centronics) SCSI connector. It is indeed
real SCSI, but the boot ROM, VMS, and Ultrix only support one SCSI device on
it, the TK50Z.

> I also don't have a TK50 or any external storage,

Note that if you can get hold of a TK50Z (a box just like your external RD54,
but with a TK50 drive and a TK50-to-SCSI adapter inside), you can readily plug
it into the connector I just described. I don't think a TK50Z would be that
expensive. Here in Dallas, TX, USA I get bare TK50 drives for $75 apiece and
TK50 drive + TQK50 controller (for Q-bus) pairs for $100 apiece, and I don't
think a TK50Z would be much more expensive.

> so it looks like I'll be netbooting.

Sorry, can't help you with that, I and netbooting have never been able to
successfully coexist in the same machine room at the same time.

> The machine currently has OpenVMS 7.2 on it which I can re-license and get
> running if it would help for an install.

If you have VMS running on one disk, you can use it to install Ultrix on the
other. Talk to me directly for the instructions.

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Thu May 25 13:44:52 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Wed, 24 May 00 22:44:52 CDT
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
Message-ID: <0005250344.AA15967@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

Warren Toomey <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au> wrote:

> I'd recommend you look into the Quasijarus project at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/
>
> and join their mailing list by sending a request to Michael Sokolov:
> msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG

Thanks, Warren, for helping me out with awareness-raising! I have to disappoint
Jeff a little bit, though, that 4.3BSD-Quasijarus support for BabyVAXen is
still a while away, but trust me, we will get there some day! But my project
pages and mailing list are definitely a tremendous resource.

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Thu May 25 18:43:45 2000
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:43:45 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
In-Reply-To: <0005250344.AA15967@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Message-ID: <200005250843.KAA01668@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 25 May, Michael Sokolov wrote:

> I have to disappoint
> Jeff a little bit, though, that 4.3BSD-Quasijarus support for BabyVAXen is
> still a while away, but trust me, we will get there some day! 
NetBSD runs on the VS2000. A friend is running a Web-server on a VS2000
(http://wmad93.mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de/). But the MFM disk support
is broken since 1.4 due to a DMA code cleanup. Netbooting works and you
can connect any generic SCSI disk to the tape port. This works but is
very slow because there is only PIO SCSI on the VS2000... 
-- 



tschüß,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


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From lars at nocrew.org  Fri May 26 00:33:49 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 25 May 2000 16:33:49 +0200
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
In-Reply-To: jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de's message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 10:43:45 +0200 (CEST)"
Message-ID: <85itw2vgvm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Fri May 26 01:30:37 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:30:37 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
In-Reply-To: <85itw2vgvm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000525173018.7767F-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 25 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

> Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?

Don't remember seeing any. What do you want to know?

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



From jasomill at shaffstall.com  Fri May 26 06:21:20 2000
From: jasomill at shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:21:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hello and thanks!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005251459360.7072-100000@guildenstern.shaffstall.com>

After about a week of work (mainly due to a dying RA81 ... see below), I
have successfully installed 2.11BSD on my 11/83. First and foremost,
thanks to a) Steven M. Shultz for so carefully maintaining and updating
(!) CSRG's PDP-11 code to work with hardware such as my MSCP drives and
TMSCP TK50 and b) everyone involved in prodding SCO to release free
Ancient UNIX source licenses.

After dealing with a crippled binary-only Micro/RSX lack-of-a-kit, and as
a FreeBSD user of five-odd years, I decided to bite the bullet and see
what UNIX was/is like on a PDP. Thanks to the work of Steven and a cast of
thousands, it's pretty damned impressive.

The only problems I've been having seem to be coming from disk controllers
without media. More specifically, I get a hard error, followed by an
endless loop of error indications if I try to access one of my RX50s (on
an RQDX3 controller), and the only recourse is a reset. Okay, so the
solution here is simple: don't do it. The bigger problem comes with my
flake-job of an RA81, which, FWIW, is the only fixed disk storage I have.
It has a strange habit: the "A" light goes off and the controller can no
longer access it. If I soft-restart the PDP (under either RSX or UNIX),
the driver connects back to the drive without a glitch. And this gives me
the same loop-of-errors syndrome as an empty RX50. Anyone have any
pointers or sage advice? I figured I may try to modify the MSCP driver to
re-init the controller on a hard error, and try again. But the MSCP code
is fairly complicated, and I know nothing of the protocol. Anyone have any
MSCP documentation which I could beg, borrow, or steal? I'd give the
specific error codes, but I haven't written any down yet and I'm at work.

Also, I am willing to provide a Good Home for any 19" rackmount MSCP
drives in the midwest. Let me rephrase that: any one or two; I have a one
bedroom apartment, and I'm saving a bit of floorspace for a (yet to
materialize) VAX. Also Qbus thinnet or SCSI would be nice, whilst on cloud
780...

TIA,
jasomill


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From jasomill at shaffstall.com  Fri May 26 08:28:09 2000
From: jasomill at shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:28:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: to change without notice
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005251726530.20729-100000@guildenstern.shaffstall.com>

After reading the _entire_ archive of PUPS messages, and realizing that,
no, I'm not crazy and, no, I'm not the only one still interested in old
hardware and software, I dug up two old 16-bit UNIX distributions and
promptly archived 'em. Unfortunately, they're binary only and System-V
based, so I can't just throw 'em in the archive. But when the game is up
on the System-V codebase, I hope these CD-Rs are still around. They are:
	- SCO XENIX 286 2.2, complete OS with development system and text
processing ([tn]roff, etc)
	- Microport System V/AT Development System (runtimes say both 1.3
and 2.3, development stuff says 1.3 - don't know, never booted this one)

All the floppies read without errors, and I've actually booted and run the
XENIX (used it for a tape conversion job a couple years ago) - works as
long as you have a 5.25" floppy drive and reasonably old hardware - I ran
it on a 386 but it doesn't grok VGA.

Also, I have the ability to write TK50 tapes along with a wide range of
other formats (my employer makes tape conversion equipment and software);
no TK25 (unless the old IBM Tandberg VarBlock format is identical - don't
know) or TK70, but just about anything else (need PDP UNIX on an HP 9144A 
cartridge tape; a) why? and b) I can help*!). I'd be happy to cut PDP UNIX
tapes for media and shipping.

Finally, anyone ever used the mtools package to read MS-DOS disks from an
RX50 from a DEC Rainbow? I'm working on it (no Rainbow, but I've got a box
that writes Rainbow disks) and I'd be glad to help anyone interested; I'm
also working on R/W RX50 on FreeBSD.

Jason T. Miller
jasomill at shaffstall.com

* but not much, unless someone is willing to replace the rubber roller
thingy on my HP drive, but, as usual, I digress.



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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 26 08:33:51 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:33:51 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <392CE14B.597E81B8@willapabay.org> from "Mike W." at "May 25, 2000  1:16:11 am"
Message-ID: <200005252233.IAA07703@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Mike W.:
> I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
> hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,
> but no to get get it on the machine, Model: one of two: VS12W-B2 or
> V512W-B2. It is an old sticker, could be a 5 or an S. A tape drive is
> installed, but no tape disk came with it. Is there another OS it can
> run? I wish I knew what to do. I turn it on and it reads something like
> 8, 7, 6, 5, 8, B, C, 3 and then after a VERY long pause, it reads E for
> another long period, then 6 for another long wait and then E forever.
> How do I hook up the Console to work on it. For that matter, what does
> the console look like? How do I go to console mode? Is there some kind
> of manual on it? I have about 8 or 9 monitors and the same amount of
> keyboards and most of the cables. I would like to bring it back to life
> and put it in a show room or something. I have no money, the whole thing
> was given to me. The drives
> were wiped clean (it was at the Hospital, they upgraded). I take it the
> E on the readout tells me, "There is no OS installed". After a month or
> so of searching the internet, I have found a few 'commands' and how to
> wire one cable, a picture and QBUS routing, but nothing on 'where  and
> how the cables go on the back (bulkhead). I need to know how, why and
> when to turn the knobs on the back.
> Yes, I know nothing of this thing and would like to learn. I know the
> MAC a little, MS-DOS  in my sleep. Anyway.....
> 
> Mike Williams
> 4212 S. Pacific Way
> Seaview, Wa. 98644-0068
> tscowboy at willapabay.org

I'll cc this to the Pups mailing list. You should subscribe so that you can
get any answers! Details at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/maillist.html

Ciao,
	Warren

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 26 10:12:40 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:12:40 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Who uploaded these to the PUPS ARchive?
Message-ID: <200005260012.KAA08415@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Hi all,
	I'm just doing some house cleaning on the PUPS Archive. I've
forgotten who uploaded these into the incoming directory?

-rw-r-----  1 wkt   pupsarc      53634 Feb 24  1999 29pro_inclsys.tar.gz
-rw-r-----  1 wkt   pupsarc     777081 Feb 24  1999 29pro_sys.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 pups  pupsarc    5332873 Jan 17 01:48 old-ultrix-32.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 pups  pupsarc  371111664 Mar 20 06:00 old-ultrix.tar.gz

As well, can you supply a README saying what is in these files, too :-)

My memory isn't what it used to me.

Thanks!
	Warren

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 26 14:34:18 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:34:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: More PUPS Donations & Volunteers
Message-ID: <200005260434.OAA09658@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Hi all,
	Since the free SCO license, we've had an enormous demand on our
PUPS volunteers. If there is anybody in Japan who can burn CDs, could you
contact me if you are prepared to burn a few copies of the PUPS CD.

I've made a start on tidying up the archive & moving recently donated
things to appropriate directories. Are there other systems out there
which could be donated to the archive? I've just have a Z8000 SystemIII
system being donated.

I'm happy to take donations, but they may not be moved into the main
archive because I don't want to have my butt sued off.

Ages ago, George Colouris at QMC in the UK had a 9-track tape containing
QED, the visual Unix editor which influenced the development of vi. Can
anybody in the UK read 9-tracks. If so, I'll put you in contact with George.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From obrien at NUXI.com  Fri May 26 14:44:17 2000
From: obrien at NUXI.com (David O'Brien)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:44:17 -0700
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <200005252233.IAA07703@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>; from wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:33:51AM +1000
References: <392CE14B.597E81B8@willapabay.org> <200005252233.IAA07703@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20000525214417.A58091@dragon.nuxi.com>

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:33:51AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Mike W.:
> > I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
> > hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,

The port-vax at netbsd.org list is full of very VAX clueful people.

-- 
-- David    (obrien at NUXI.com)

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From lars at nocrew.org  Fri May 26 15:59:56 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 26 May 2000 07:59:56 +0200
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 17:30:37 +0200 (MET DST)"
References: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000525173018.7767F-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <85em6pvokj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> On 25 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:
> > Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?
> Don't remember seeing any. What do you want to know?

Everything necessary to emulate one in software.  I have Supnik's 
simulator, but it would be easier if I had proper docs.

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Fri May 26 16:18:57 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:18:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
Message-ID: <200005260618.XAA29942@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
> Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > On 25 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:
> > > Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?
> > Don't remember seeing any. What do you want to know?
> 
> Everything necessary to emulate one in software.  I have Supnik's 
> simulator, but it would be easier if I had proper docs.

	Do you also have Harti Brandt's P11 ("Begemot") emulator?  That
	is a _work of art_!   Has an emulated DEQNA so you can place the
	"PDP-11" on a LAN, the timeskew problem has been fixed (the emulated
	pdp-11 keeps good time), and it also has a TOY clock now.

	Check out http://www.begemot.org

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Fri May 26 18:54:02 2000
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:54:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <20000525214417.A58091@dragon.nuxi.com>
Message-ID: <200005260854.KAA08172@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 25 May, David O'Brien wrote:

> On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:33:51AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
>> In article by Mike W.:
>> > I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
>> > hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,
> 
> The port-vax at netbsd.org list is full of very VAX clueful people.
Yes. port-vax is the right audience. (I am part of it. ;-)  )

There is an excellent site with information about VAX hardware. 
http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/index.html
mirror at
http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/hw/index.html

There you can find a link to the KA630/MicroVAX II page
http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html
This will answer most of your questions. 

If you want a modern Unix OS look at www.netbsd.org.
Or look at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ (Hi Michael :-) )
-- 



tschüß,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


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From joerg at begemot.org  Fri May 26 19:22:21 2000
From: joerg at begemot.org (Joerg B. Micheel)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:22:21 +1200
Subject: Begemot emulator and Harti
Message-ID: <20000526212221.A4801@begemot.org>

Just as a side note: if you think Harti's Emulator is a useful
piece of software: sent him flowers. He's celebrating wedding
this morning in Berlin, marrying a friendly young lady from
Sibiria, Russia, her name is Larissa.

Regards,
	Joerg
-- 
Joerg B. Micheel			Email: <joerg at begemot.org>
Begemot Computer Associates		Phone: +64 7 8562148
40 Masters Avenue, Hillcrest		Fax:   +64 7 8562148
Hamilton, New Zealand			Pager: +64 868 38222

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From jasomill at shaffstall.com  Sat May 27 00:04:37 2000
From: jasomill at shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:04:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hello and thanks!
In-Reply-To: <200005260320.UAA27315@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005260850030.31892-100000@guildenstern.shaffstall.com>

Well, I keep calling the hardware support folks, and it keeps ringing
busy. Of course, since I don't have call waiting or voice mail, that is to
be expected :) I've actually thought about trying to acquire an
MSCP<->SCSI card and using one of the SCSI drives I have lying around, but
the 19" rackmount stuff is too cool (unfortunately, my spares cabinet is
full of dirty laundry and ruined CD-R media at the moment), though I
suppose an RA92 would suffice (anybody got one? :) though my budget is
henceforth nonexistant -- $300 wouldn't break the bank, because they
wouldn't give it to me. Don't know about the RQDX3, either, but more
likely the KDA50 (which drives my RA81 -- the RQDX3 is for RXen, no more).

The '81 was up all last night, so I don't have error numbers yet; I'll try
to repeat the RX50 problem sometime this weekend. The only FS, I have, is
yours, though I've started reading through it. Though the SCSI spec is
thousands of pages long, it's pretty easy to program; I just finished some
raw-tape-read routines for Hewlett-Packard CS/80 tape drives, that was
even simpler. In both cases, however, I do have documentation
(exhaustive documentation in re: SCSI -- again, work related). I take it
from your reply that such docs aren't to be had for MSCP? At any price?

Jason T. Miller
jasomill at shaffstall.com

On Thu, 25 May 2000, Steven M. Schultz wrote:

> Hi -
> 
> > From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill at shaffstall.com>
> > After about a week of work (mainly due to a dying RA81 ... see below), I
> > have successfully installed 2.11BSD on my 11/83. First and foremost,
> > thanks to a) Steven M. Shultz for so carefully maintaining and updating
> > (!) CSRG's PDP-11 code to work with hardware such as my MSCP drives and
> > TMSCP TK50 and b) everyone involved in prodding SCO to release free
> 
> 	You're welcome!  I can't take all of the credit (or blame depending
> 	how you look at it) for the MSCP driver - that came about in 2.10
> 	just before I became heavily involved.   Changes/rewrites/whatever
> 	are my fault though ;)   The TMSCP driver for 2BSD is my doing (based
> 	on a *heavily* mauled version of the 4.3BSD one with some Ultrix
> 	influences).
> 
> > The only problems I've been having seem to be coming from disk controllers
> > without media. More specifically, I get a hard error, followed by an
> > endless loop of error indications if I try to access one of my RX50s (on
> > an RQDX3 controller), and the only recourse is a reset. Okay, so the
> 
> 	Hmmm, that's a new one to me.  I used to have RX50s but they were
> 	so d$&$*&^!d flakey that I put a standard "pc" 5.25" floppy on 
> 	instead (TEAC something or other).  I didn't do the hardware stuff,
> 	Terry Kennedy did that.  Details on jumper setting to use a 5.25"
> 	floppy in place of RX50s are floating around somewhere on the net
> 	but I don't have the reference handy.
> 
> 	Can't say I've had a problem with the floppy drive with no media.
> 	It spins and eventually spits out an error but nothing bad happens
> 	to the system.
> 
> 	Hmmmm, what rev level of 2.11BSD do you have installed?  The latest
> 	from the PUPS archive (or at least fairly recent)?   
> 
> > solution here is simple: don't do it. The bigger problem comes with my
> > flake-job of an RA81, which, FWIW, is the only fixed disk storage I have.
> > It has a strange habit: the "A" light goes off and the controller can no
> 
> 	Been there, seen that - on 11/44s with UDA50 controllers.  When that
> 	happened I picked up the phone and got the hardware support folks to
> 	get me a new RA81 ;)   After a while they got tired of maintaining
> 	old hardware and when the RA81 died the last time they just turned off
> 	the system and later sold it for scrap (instead of spending $300 for 
> 	a RA92 drive).  Boo hiss.
> 
> 	RA81s have been the worst drive I've seen for failures - it should
> 	be fairly cheap to get a RA92 (8" desktop enclosure if I recall 
> 	right) to replace the RA81.  Does the RQDX3 support the larger 
> 	drives though I wonder?
> 
> > the same loop-of-errors syndrome as an empty RX50. Anyone have any
> > pointers or sage advice? I figured I may try to modify the MSCP driver to
> > re-init the controller on a hard error, and try again. But the MSCP code
> > is fairly complicated, and I know nothing of the protocol. Anyone have any
> 
> 	You're not just whistling Dixie there - it's the most complex 
> 	convoluted protocol I've seen for handling disks (and tapes).  Well,
> 	SCSI these days might be just as complex - but there's a difference:
> 	I can get lots better specs and documentation for SCSI than I can for 
> 	MSCP.  If you've access to other systems (RSX, IAS, etc) sources you 
> 	can RTFS (Read The Fine Source) and try to puzzle out how MSCP works 
> 	what the errors are and what to do about them but that's a far
> 	cry from a complete, detailed, tabular, whatever document on how to
> 	write a MSCP driver.
> 
> > MSCP documentation which I could beg, borrow, or steal? I'd give the
> > specific error codes, but I haven't written any down yet and I'm at work.
> 
> 	I know I did do some work (mostly in the TMSCP part though) to improve
> 	error handling and not leave drives stranded and the like.   If you
> 	can jot down the error codes I can take a look at the driver and
> 	perhaps see what can be done to recover more gracefully.
> 
> 	Cheers!
> 
> 	Steven Schultz
> 	sms at moe.2bsd.com
> 


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From leypold at informatik.uni-tuebingen.de  Sat May 27 00:40:23 2000
From: leypold at informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Markus Leypold)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:40:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Building a 2.11BSD tape for Supnik's emulator
Message-ID: <200005261440.QAA12383@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>



Hello Seth,

I never worked with a real PDP-11. I tried to build a V7 Boot tape for 
the Supnick and still did not succeed, but I got the following impressions:

 * V7 Doc says, You can't use the bootstrap from the DEC bulk ROM,
   but need to key in a custom bootstrap. Have a look into
   the V7 Manual Volume 2B (Essay about Installing UNIX).

 * It seems, a tape also needs to contain labels for the files
   (512 Byte Records), kind of directory.


Regards -- Markus



Original Message:
---------------------------------
Hello folks,

I'm trying to build a 2.11BSD boot tape for Bob Supnik's emulator.  I
downloaded the tape files from Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD, and put them
together with the following commands (on Linux):

  cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd of=file0 obs=512
  dd if=disklabel of=file1 obs=1024
  dd if=mkfs of=file2 obs=1024
  dd if=restor of=file3 obs=1024
  dd if=icheck of=file4 obs=1024
  dd if=root.dump of=file5 obs=10240
  dd if=file6.tar of=file6 obs=10240
  dd if=file7.tar of=file7 obs=10240
  dd if=file8.tar of=file8 obs=10240
  cat file? > boot.tape  [I've verified the shell expands this
                          expression to the correct file order]

But when I run the simulator and try to boot from the tape (with or
without the -o optiont to 'boot'), it fails, like so:

  % pdp11

  PDP-11 simulator V2.3d
  sim> set cpu 18b
  sim> set cpu 2048K
  sim> att tm0 boot.tape
  sim> boot tm0

  HALT instruction, PC: 000002 (HALT)
  sim> boot -o tm0

  HALT instruction, PC: 000002 (HALT)
  sim>

It's like the bootstrap code isn't working.  Or possibly I've completely
misunderstood the proper way to build a tape image.  Is there a better
way to go about it?

- -Seth

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Sat May 27 02:26:28 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:26:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Building a 2.11BSD tape for Supnik's emulator
Message-ID: <200005261626.JAA08996@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: Markus Leypold <leypold at informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>
> I never worked with a real PDP-11. I tried to build a V7 Boot tape for 
> the Supnick and still did not succeed, but I got the following impressions:
> 
>  * It seems, a tape also needs to contain labels for the files
>    (512 Byte Records), kind of directory.

	Not exactly.  The boot tape consists of files with different block
	sizes but has no "labels".  
> Original Message:
> ---------------------------------
> I'm trying to build a 2.11BSD boot tape for Bob Supnik's emulator.  I
> downloaded the tape files from Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD, and put them
> together with the following commands (on Linux):
> 
>   cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd of=file0 obs=512
>   dd if=disklabel of=file1 obs=1024
>   dd if=mkfs of=file2 obs=1024
>   dd if=restor of=file3 obs=1024
>   dd if=icheck of=file4 obs=1024
>   dd if=root.dump of=file5 obs=10240
>   dd if=file6.tar of=file6 obs=10240
>   dd if=file7.tar of=file7 obs=10240
>   dd if=file8.tar of=file8 obs=10240
>   cat file? > boot.tape  [I've verified the shell expands this
>                           expression to the correct file order]

	So close yet so far.

	You do not need to "reblock" the files - they already have the correct
	sizes.  What you do need to do is run a program to add the record
	length information for the emulator.  The emulator needs to have
	"virtual" file and record mark information added.

	If you look in the "usr/src/sys/pdpstand" directory you will find
	a source file "makesimtape.c".  This is a slightly modified version
	of the 'maketape' program which 2.11 uses to create its own boot tapes.
	The modifications consist of changes to add the virtual tape marks
	for Bob's emulator.

	I will include a copy of makesimtape.c below in case anyone has trouble
	finding it in the source tree.

	makesimtape should compile on almost anything (I've used it on
	2.11BSD, BSD/OS, and I think FreeBSD).  Compile that program.  Then
	create a small file (maketape.data) containing:

mtboot 1
mtboot 1
boot 1
* 1
disklabel 2
* 1
mkfs 2
* 1
restor 2
* 1
icheck 2
* 1
root.dump 20
* 1
file6.tar 20
* 1
file7.tar 20
* 1
file8.tar 20
*1

	Then "makesimtape -i maketape.data -o your_tape_file" will create
	the virtual tape file in 'your_tape_file'.

	Actually to make sure things work (and the tape is bootable and can
	run the standalone programs) all you need are the files up thru
	root.dump - that is enough to load the root filesystem.  


	With a real tape drive you use the "maketape" program that comes
	with 2.11 of course since it wants to issue ioctl calls to place
	real tape marks, etc on a tape.

> It's like the bootstrap code isn't working.  Or possibly I've completely
> misunderstood the proper way to build a tape image.  Is there a better
> way to go about it?

	
	Hopefully the method described above will be closer to what's
	needed.  it has been quite a while since I've actually created a
	simulated tape so I might have left out a step or something.

	Good Luck!

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

=====================makesimtape.c=========================
/*
 *	@(#)makesimtape.c	2.1 (2.11BSD) 1998/12/31
 *		Hacked 'maketape.c' to write a file in a format suitable for
 *		use with Bob Supnik's PDP-11 simulator (V2.3) emulated tape 
 *		driver.
 *
 * 	NOTE: a PDP-11 has to flip the shorts within the long when writing out
 *	      the record size.  Seems a PDP-11 is neither a little-endian
 *	      machine nor a big-endian one.
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>

#define MAXB 30

	char	buf[MAXB * 512];
	char	name[50];
	long	recsz, flipped, trl();
	int	blksz;
	int	mt, fd, cnt;
	struct	iovec	iovec[3];
	struct	iovec	tmark[2];
	void	usage();

main(argc, argv)
	int argc;
	char *argv[];
	{
	int i, j = 0, k = 0;
	long zero = 0;
	register char	*outfile = NULL, *infile = NULL;
	FILE *mf;
	struct	stat	st;

	while	((i = getopt(argc, argv, "i:o:")) != EOF)
		{
		switch	(i)
			{
			case	'o':
				outfile = optarg;
				break;
			case	'i':
				infile = optarg;
				break;
			default:
				usage();
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		}
	if	(!outfile || !infile)
		usage();
		/* NOTREACHED */
/*
 * Stat the outfile and make sure it either 1) Does not exist, or
 * 2) Exists but is a regular file.
*/
	if	(stat(outfile, &st) != -1 && !(S_ISREG(st.st_mode)))
		errx(1, "outfile must either not exist or be a regular file");
		/* NOTREACHED */

	mt = open(outfile, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600);
	if	(mt < 0)
		err(1, "Can not create %s", outfile);
		/* NOTREACHED */

	mf = fopen(infile, "r");
	if	(!mf)
		err(1, "Can not open %s", infile);
		/* NOTREACHED*/

	tmark[0].iov_len = sizeof (long);
	tmark[0].iov_base = (char *)&zero;

	while	(1)
		{
		if	((i = fscanf(mf, "%s %d", name, &blksz))== EOF)
			exit(0);
		if	(i != 2) {
			fprintf(stderr,"Help! Scanf didn't read 2 things (%d)\n", i);
			exit(1);
			}
		if	(blksz <= 0 || blksz > MAXB)
			{
			fprintf(stderr, "Block size %u is invalid\n", blksz);
			exit(1);
			}
		recsz = blksz * 512;	/* convert to bytes */
		iovec[0].iov_len = sizeof (recsz);
#ifdef	pdp11
		iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&flipped;
#else
		iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&recsz;
#endif
		iovec[1].iov_len = (int)recsz;
		iovec[1].iov_base = buf;
		iovec[2].iov_len =  iovec[0].iov_len;
		iovec[2].iov_base = iovec[0].iov_base;

		if	(strcmp(name, "*") == 0)
			{
			if	(writev(mt, tmark, 1) < 0)
				warn(1, "writev of pseudo tapemark failed");
			k++;
			continue;
			}
		fd = open(name, 0);
		if	(fd < 0)
			err(1, "Can't open %s for reading", name);
			/* NOTREACHED */
		printf("%s: block %d, file %d\n", name, j, k);

		/*
		 * we pad the last record with nulls
		 * (instead of the bell std. of padding with trash).
		 * this allows you to access text files on the
		 * tape without garbage at the end of the file.
		 * (note that there is no record length associated
		 *  with tape files)
		 */

		while	((cnt=read(fd, buf, (int)recsz)) == (int)recsz)
			{
			j++;
#ifdef	pdp11
			flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
			if	(writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
				err(1, "writev #1");
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		if	(cnt > 0)
			{
			j++;
			bzero(buf + cnt, (int)recsz - cnt);
#ifdef	pdp11
			flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
			if	(writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
				err(1, "writev #2");
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		close(fd);
		}
/*
 * Write two tape marks to simulate EOT
*/
	writev(mt, tmark, 1);
	writev(mt, tmark, 1);
	}

long
trl(l)
	long	l;
	{
	union	{
		long	l;
		short	s[2];
		} foo;
	register short	x;

	foo.l = l;
	x = foo.s[0];
	foo.s[0] = foo.s[1];
	foo.s[1] = x;
	return(foo.l);
	}

void
usage()
	{
	fprintf(stderr, "usage: makesimtape -o outfilefile -i inputfile\n");
	exit(1);
	}


From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Sat May 27 06:42:58 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Fri, 26 May 00 15:42:58 CDT
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
Message-ID: <0005262042.AA18959@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

In article by Mike W.:

> I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
> hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,
> but no to get get it on the machine, Model: one of two: VS12W-B2 or
> V512W-B2. It is an old sticker, could be a 5 or an S. A tape drive is
> installed, but no tape disk came with it. Is there another OS it can
> run?

Yes, it will run UNIX, the timesharing system by Ritchie and Thompson, Berkeley
VAX version thereof, the current version of which is 4.3BSD-Quasijarus
maintained by me, the WWW page for which is:

http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/

Running UNIX requires a UNIX source license (True UNIX never had, doesn't have,
and never will have a concept of "binary only"), but these days SCO gives them
out for FREE! You have a tape drive, so you will have no problem with
installation. I have supply you with the boot tape, but you'll have to
reimburse me for the tape and shipping.

> How do I hook up the Console to work on it. For that matter, what does
> the console look like?

You need a standard RS-232 terminal. The console port connector on the MicroVAX
is of a rather odd standard, though. A DEC BCC05 or BCC08 cable will connect it
to a standard RS-232 DB25M terminal. If you want or have to make your own
cable, I've got the pinout for the MicroVAX console port connector somewhere.

> [...] nothing on 'where  and
> how the cables go on the back (bulkhead).

The I/O distribution panel on the back provides external connections for all
Q-bus modules you have. You'll have to tell us what Q-bus modules you have so
that we can tell you what external connections they need. You obviously have
the CPU, which has one external connection: the console port which I just told
you about.

> I need to know how, why and
> when to turn the knobs on the back.

On the CPU module bulkhead there are two knobs and one switch. One knob selects
the console port baud rate. I think this one is obvious. You can use any of the
baud rates printed around the knob, but 9600 baud is standard. The other knob
selects between normal operation (the arrow icon), console language selection
(the talking face icon), and console port loopback test (the T in the circle
icon). I always leave it on the arrow icon. Finally, the switch selects between
maintenance mode (halt enabled, stay in the console on power-up) and production
mode (halt disabled, boot the OS on power-up). These correspond to the dot-
inside-the-circle and dot-outside-the-circle icons, respectively. For now leave
the dot inside the circle.

For more info subscribe to the Quasijarus mailing list and ask there. Send
subscription requests to:

quasijarus-request at ivan.Harhan.ORG

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Sat May 27 06:44:45 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Fri, 26 May 00 15:44:45 CDT
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
Message-ID: <0005262044.AA18967@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

David O'Brien <obrien at NUXI.com> wrote:

> The port-vax at netbsd.org list is full of very VAX clueful people.

So is quasijarus at ivan.Harhan.ORG.

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Sat May 27 06:51:29 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Fri, 26 May 00 15:51:29 CDT
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
Message-ID: <0005262051.AA18987@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:

> If you want a modern Unix OS [...]

If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee sea
hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like I do) would
surely feel the same way about software (again like I do). Why should one treat
hardware and software differently in this respect? Why mix-and-match the
wonderful classical hardware with crappy bloated "modern" software?

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From bdc at world.std.com  Sat May 27 08:21:49 2000
From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:21:49 -0700
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <0005262051.AA18987@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0005261515050.22157-100000@world.std.com>

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Michael Sokolov wrote:

> jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> > If you want a modern Unix OS [...]
> 
> If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee
> sea hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like
> I do) would surely feel the same way about software (again like I do).
> Why should one treat hardware and software differently in this
> respect? Why mix-and-match the wonderful classical hardware with
> crappy bloated "modern" software?

This list is definitely geared towards people running classic OSes on
classic systems.  I actually really enjoy having lots of the bloated
modern hardware running on my VAXen.  So much contemporary software
compiles and runs right out of the tarballs under NetBSD/vax.  And
honestly, a lot of it performs quite admirably on even my humblest of
MicroVAX II's.

I see nothing incompatible with loving modern OSes running well on ancient
hardware. :-)

-brian.
--- Brian Chase | bdc at world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----
All math equations have a fistfight on at least one side.  -- K.


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From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Sun May 28 01:49:00 2000
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:49:00 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <0005262051.AA18987@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Message-ID: <200005271549.RAA15426@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 27 May, Michael Sokolov wrote:

>> If you want a modern Unix OS [...]
> 
> If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee sea
> hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like I do) would
> surely feel the same way about software (again like I do). Why should one treat
> hardware and software differently in this respect? Why mix-and-match the
> wonderful classical hardware with crappy bloated "modern" software?
Sure. That is the reason why I referred both the quasijarus project and
NetBSD. I wanted to give _him_ the choice. 

I own a lot of different old machines. (DEC, Sun, HP, IBM, ...) On most
of this machins runs the same OS, NetBSD. I like it to see the same
software running on an old VAX and on a state of the art Alpha. I am
usung NetBSD for years now, so my preference of NetBSD is historical
too. 
-- 



tschüß,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/



From sethm at loomcom.com  Tue May  9 08:02:40 2000
From: sethm at loomcom.com (sjm)
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 15:02:40 -0700
Subject: Good news on the Ancient UNIX License front
Message-ID: <20000508150240.A7092@loomcom.com>

Hello all,

I've just received this mail from SCO.  I think it's appropriate to
post here.

Apparently we can expect the Ancient UNIX License available on the
SCO website by Friday (U.S. Pacific Time, I would suspect).  Very
good news indeed!

Included message follows:

>To: sethm at loomcom.com
>From: Paul Kaspian <paulka at sco.COM>
>Subject: Re: Fwd: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Seth,
>
>Sorry for the late reply. We are in the process of adding Ancient UNIX to our
>web site now that the $100 fee is waived. This should be up on the site by May
>12th. It will be located at www.sco.com/offers. Please let me know if you have
>any questions.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Paul Kasipan
>Marketing Manager
>SCO
>
>
>At 10:25 AM 4/26/00 -0700, you wrote:
>
>>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:58:24 -0700
>>From: sjm <sethm at loomcom.com>
>>To: toms at sco.com
>>Subject: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license
>>X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1us
>>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I read your recent press release regarding SCO's new open source
>>initiatives with some interest.  Specifically, I'm curious what your
>>plans are regarding the "Ancient" UNIX license which SCO previously
>>charged $100 for.  Do you know when the new free license will be
>>available?
>>
>>Thank you for your help,
>>
>>-Seth Morabito
>>  sethm at loomcom.com


-- 
"As a general rule, the man in the habit of murdering  | Seth Morabito
bookbinders, though he performs a distinct service     | sethm at loomcom.com
to society, only wastes his own time and takes no      |
personal advantage."  -- Kenneth Grahame (1898)        |   Perth ==> *


From lars at nocrew.org  Tue May  9 17:25:55 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 09 May 2000 09:25:55 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: sjm's message of "Mon, 8 May 2000 15:02:40 -0700"
References: <20000508150240.A7092@loomcom.com>
Message-ID: <85og6g18xo.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

I'm adding PDP-11 support to GNU binutils, and I need help on
classifying the instruction set.

I'm somewhat confused, because:

  PDP-11 FAQ says:
  11/45 introduced MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
  Later, 11/40 introduced SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT.  MUL, DIV, etc in
  EIS option.

  GCC pdp11.md and pdp11.c says:
  11/40 and 11/45 has SOB, SXT, XOR.
  11/45 has ASHC, MUL, DIV.
  All models has ASH.

  John Holden writes:
  11/40 and 11/45 has EIS and FPU instructions.
  11/40 had several options to add EIS, FIS and a MMU.

Does this mean that an unexpanded 11/40 has no EIS instructions,
but with the EIS option, it has more instructions than an 11/45?

GCC seems to think that all PDP-11 models has ASH, but this seems
wrong.  It's only in EIS, right?

So far, this is the classification I've come up with:

  BASIC: the basic instruction set.
  CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).
  EIS45: 11/45 extended instruction set: MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
  EIS40: 11/40 extended instruction set: EIS45 + SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT.
  FIS: FADD, FSUB, FMUL, and FDIV (opcodes 0x7a00..0x7bff).
  FPU: LDF, STF, LDCFF', STCFF', CMPF, LDEXP, STEXP, LDCIF, STCFI, MULF,
       MODF, ADDF, SUBF, and DIVF (opcodes 0xf000..0xffff).

Would this be correct?

FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 10 09:47:01 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:47:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Good news on the Ancient UNIX License front
In-Reply-To: <20000508150240.A7092@loomcom.com> from sjm at "May 8, 2000  3: 2:40 pm"
Message-ID: <200005092347.JAA89501@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by sjm:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've just received this mail from SCO.  I think it's appropriate to
> post here.
> 
> Apparently we can expect the Ancient UNIX License available on the
> SCO website by Friday (U.S. Pacific Time, I would suspect).  Very
> good news indeed!

I'm just back from a training course. I've seen a preview of the web site.
You get to click-thru the license agreement, then you have a set of hyperlinks
to the UNIX versions that SCO owns (5e, 6e, 7e, 32V, SysIII, Mini UNIX).

I'm still trying to work out an access method to the PUPS Archive with them,
but I think we're getting there.

So, you will get access to some UNIX source code soon, but access to the
PUPS Archive might be a week or so longer.

Cheers all!
	Warren

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 10 10:27:22 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:27:22 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PDP land
In-Reply-To: <20000505191242.A13087@ussenterprise.ufp.org> from Leo Bicknell at "May 5, 2000  7:12:42 pm"
Message-ID: <200005100027.KAA89955@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Leo Bicknell:
> 	I don't know if you remember me or not.  I believe we talked
> before when I was a student at Virginia Tech about Unix on a PDP-11/40
> that I had.  Alas, I had to let those machines go as I didn't have
> the time or space to keep them.
> 
> 	I went looking for PDP stuff on the web, and ran across your
> name again.  I thought I'd give you a whirl.  I'm now in a position to
> give real data center space to one or more of these beasts, and I would
> love to put a PDP-11 up on the net running old-school unix.
> 
> 	Any pointers as to where to find someone giving away or
> selling one of these beasts?
> 
> 	Thanks.
> Leo Bicknell - bicknell at ufp.org

Leo, I'm punting this on to the PUPS mailing list to see if you get any
nibbles. Go to http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/maillist.html to see
how to join. You could also try the Usenet newsgroups alt.sys.pdp11 and
vmsnet.pdp-11.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au  Wed May 10 10:37:51 2000
From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au (johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:37:51 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005100037.KAA11235@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>


The 11/45 has the base instruction set, plus EIS (MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL,
SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT). This was standard with the CPU, and the optional
floating point unit (another 4 cards in the backplane) added the floating
point instruction set.

The 11/40 has billions (Carl Sagans) of options. The minimal processor had
the base set, plus SOB, MARK, RTT, XOR and SXT. Processor options added extra
microcode and extra shift registers and counters to the data path.

	Option	Description
	KE11-E	EIS instruction set (ASH, ASHC, DIV, MUL)
	KE11-F	FIS instruction set (FDIV, FMUL, FADD, FSUB)
	KJ11-A	Stack limit register
	KT11-D	Memory management
	KW11-L	Line time clock

The processor options had dedicated slots, but lots of jumpers have to be
changed to enable them. Note that there are just four floating point
instructions (not directly compatible with any FPP instruction), and they
are not very PDP-11 like in their behaviour. The instructions have a three bit
address field to specify a register. The register points to a 'floating point
stack frame' that contains the arguments for the instruction in memory. The
floating point number format is the same as FPP.

When the original LSI-11 came out, it was modeled on 11/40, again with the
base instructions, plus SOB, MARK, RTT, XOR and SXT. EIS and FIS were options
in 'Microm Chips' (extra microcode). There was no memory management options
and it lacked an addressable PSW (processor status word) and switch register
(01777570).

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From johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au  Wed May 10 11:35:53 2000
From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au (johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:35:53 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <200005100135.LAA02228@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>


> lars brinkhoff wrote :-
> 
> I'm adding PDP-11 support to GNU binutils, and I need help on
> classifying the instruction set.

I forgot to mention a critical point. Any PDP-11 runing Unix (except very
early versions and Miniunix), and certainly from Edition 6 onwards, MUST have
EIS. Even the Unix bootstraps used EIS. So binaries built for Unix, will run
on a 11/34/35/40/44/45/50/53/55/60/70/73/83/84/93/94 !!

Floating point is a bit more problematic. The kernel (see crevat latter) didn't
require it, but had to save FP status and registers on context switches.
Quite a few processors had the FPP as an option, and so there was FPP emulation
build into the kernel (conditionally). There were versions of the C compiler
that had code tables for the FIS, to suit the 11/35/40.

I have a distant memory, that I have seen FPP instructions used for some
integer arithmetic for speed. I cannot recall if it was in the kernel or
C libraries. It was conditional, and may have been in the latter BSD versions,
but I don't have the source code online.


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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 10 11:50:31 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:50:31 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <85og6g18xo.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> from lars brinkhoff at "May 9, 2000  9:25:55 am"
Message-ID: <200005100150.LAA90764@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by lars brinkhoff:
> So far, this is the classification I've come up with:
> 
>   BASIC: the basic instruction set.
>   CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).
>   EIS45: 11/45 extended instruction set: MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, SPL.
>   EIS40: 11/40 extended instruction set: EIS45 + SOB, XOR, MARK, SXT, RTT.
>   FIS: FADD, FSUB, FMUL, and FDIV (opcodes 0x7a00..0x7bff).
>   FPU: LDF, STF, LDCFF', STCFF', CMPF, LDEXP, STEXP, LDCIF, STCFI, MULF,
>        MODF, ADDF, SUBF, and DIVF (opcodes 0xf000..0xffff).
> 
> Would this be correct?
> 
> FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
> found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
> is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?

I've got some details on FADD, FSUB, FMUL, and FDIV. I could fax you the
relevant details from the processor handbook, and/or give you source code
from my Apout simulator.

FADD is instruction 07500x, ADDF is 1720xx. They are different.

I don't know enough about the CIS extensions. Can you name some of the
opcode names, so that I can look in the handbooks I have here: 04, 05, 10, 15,
20, 34, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 70.

	Warren

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Wed May 10 12:58:25 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:58:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005100258.TAA18914@moe.2bsd.com>

> From: Warren Toomey <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>
> I don't know enough about the CIS extensions. Can you name some of the
> opcode names, so that I can look in the handbooks I have here: 04, 05, 10, 15,
> 20, 34, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 70.

	The CIS was a quite expensive option that was only available (as I
	recall) on the 11/44 and the later KDJ-11 based systems (11/83 and up 
	where it occupied another socket on the cpu board).  

	The CIS instructions are:

		L2D
		L3D
		ADDP
		ADDN
		ADDNI
		ADDPI
		ASHN
		ASHP
		ASHNI
		ASHPI
		CMPC
		CMPCI
		CMPN
		CMPP
		CMPNI
		CMPPI
		CVTLN
		CVTLP
		CVTLNI
		CVTLPI
		CVTNL
		CVTPL
		CVTLNI
		CVTPLI
		CVTNP
		CVTPN
		CVTNPI
		CVTPNI
		DIVP
		DIVPI
		LOCC
		LOCCI
		MATC
		MATCI
		MOVC
		MOVCI
		MOVRC
		MOVRCI
		MOVTC
		MOVTCI
		MULP
		MULPI
		SCANC
		SCANCI
		SKPC
		SKPCI
		SPANC
		SPANCI
		SUBN
		SUBP
		SUBNI
		SUBPI

	Try the processor handbook that covers the 11/44+11/70  - I think
	that's where the CIS is described.

	At one time it looked like where I worked was going to get a CIS
	board for the 11/44 to help with the COBOL runtime we'd written/ported.
	It never came to be ;(   But I did add the opcodes to the assembler
	and did some initial coding in preparation for getting the CIS
	instructions.   You do a _lot_ of saving and restoring registers because
	the CIS instructions expect many of their operands to be in R2 thru R5
	(R0 and R1 were used for returning results).  That's a pretty high
	percentage (~100) of the available registers ;)

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Wed May 10 13:22:57 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <200005100322.UAA19095@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi --

> From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au
> I forgot to mention a critical point. Any PDP-11 runing Unix (except very
> early versions and Miniunix), and certainly from Edition 6 onwards, MUST have
> EIS. Even the Unix bootstraps used EIS. So binaries built for Unix, will run
> on a 11/34/35/40/44/45/50/53/55/60/70/73/83/84/93/94 !!

	Absolutely correct.  By the time Unix was making its way out of the
	lab and becoming commercially available (V7 and later for certain)
	the 11/70 was the target machine and while you could order an 11/70
	without floating point very few (that I saw) were bought that way.

	Even some of the DEC bootstraps used EIS - at least the later RSX-11D
	ones did.   At one site we couldn't boot the 11/45 into RSX-11D, it
	would crash part way thru the boot process.  The DEC folks would
	bring in their diagnostic disks and they would boot just fine.  Finally
	I insisted they run full cpu diagnostics and voila - the 'div' (or was
	it the 'ash' - been a looong time) instruction was failing.  The 
	diagnostic packs were RT11 based (I believe) and were meant to run
	on all processors rather than the 45 and up.

>Floating point is a bit more problematic. The kernel (see crevat latter) didn't
>require it, but had to save FP status and registers on context switches.

	The compiler also checks if any FP is done and generates references
	to special symbols as needed.   The linker can then link in dummy
	modules for parts of the 'printf' and int->floating conversion routines
	and save some space that way.   A kluge but on a small machine every
	half kb counts.

>Quite a few processors had the FPP as an option, and so there was FPP emulation

	The kernel (at least V7 and later) has special code in it to catch
	and ignore the illegal instruction 'setd' if no hardware FP is present.
	This is because the crt0 routine (which receives control from the
	kernel when a program is run) forces double precision mode in all
	programs.
	
	Some floating point simulators (V7's for example) ran in user mode 
	and caught the SIGILL signal).   I guess running slow instead of
	crashing is a plus but wow did that bog down the system immensely.
	Of course one of the programs that was used a lot was a Fortran
	one and f77 generates a *lot* of floating point code.  It wasn't just
	the emulation of the FP instructions (that would not have been too
	bad) but the overhead of the hundreds of signals and context switches
	was a system killer.

> build into the kernel (conditionally). There were versions of the C compiler
> that had code tables for the FIS, to suit the 11/35/40.

	2.10BSD and later have an in-kernel FP emulator - alas it doesn't
	work.  About the most I did was get it thru the assembler.  All the
	systems I have come with builtin FP.  At one time Tim Shoppa was
	going to take a stab at pulling the FP board out of his 11/44 and
	see about getting the emulator working - copious free time permitting
	of course ;)

> I have a distant memory, that I have seen FPP instructions used for some
> integer arithmetic for speed. I cannot recall if it was in the kernel or

	In the C library.   The kernel itself can't (or at least shouldn't)
	do floating point stuff because that might happen at interrupt level
	and trash the current user process (if any) context.

	The C library code (at least in 2.11) uses FP to do the 32 bit
	divide and multiply.  It's a lot faster (and much less code) to
	convert long to double, do the operations and then store&convert
	double back to int or long.   There might be one or two other cases
	but that was the primary use.

	And thereby hangs a bit of a tale.  The KDJ-11{A,B} handle faults
	during a stack push by a FP instruction differently than the 11/44 or
	11/70.   If you have access to the 2.11BSD bug archive (I know it's
	on 'ns.to.gd-es.com' and 'moe.2bsd.com' - not sure of who else is
	mirroring it) look for update #150 (Subject is "stack expansion bug
	on KDJ-11 cpus".

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Wed May 10 13:32:53 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:32:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005100332.UAA19137@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
> Does this mean that an unexpanded 11/40 has no EIS instructions,

	Quite correct. 

> but with the EIS option, it has more instructions than an 11/45?

	Adding the EIS brings an 11/40 to the same level as an 11/45 without
	floating point.

> GCC seems to think that all PDP-11 models has ASH, but this seems
> wrong.  It's only in EIS, right?

	Yes - that's part of the EIS.  Standard on the 11/45, 11/70 (and the
	later KDJ-11 systems such as the 11/53, 73, 83,etc)

>   CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).

	Not a popular option at all.  At the time DEC was trying to make the
	11 more of a COBOL machine but the CIS option was too little, too late
	and expensive (plus it wouldn't fit as I recall on a 11/70 - just the
	11/44 and newer).

	...
>        MODF, ADDF, SUBF, and DIVF (opcodes 0xf000..0xffff).
> 
> Would this be correct?

	Looks right to me.

> FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
> found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
> is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?
	
	Two different machines.  The FADD was part of the FIS option for the 
	11/40 only (I don't recall ever hearing of someone adding the FIS
	to a 11/45 or 70).  The 11/45, 70 and later all had the FPU 
	as an option or standard (the KDJ-11{A,B} had the instructions standard
	but you could buy (~$600 at the time) an accelerator chip to speed
	them up).   I don't think there were any models after the 11/70
	that used the FIS.

	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
	well - I forget).

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 16:56:04 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 08:56:04 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <200005100150.LAA90764@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510085424.22474D-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On Wed, 10 May 2000, Warren Toomey wrote:

> I don't know enough about the CIS extensions. Can you name some of the
> opcode names, so that I can look in the handbooks I have here: 04, 05, 10, 15,
> 20, 34, 35, 40, 45, 55, 60, 70.

You don't have a handbook for any machine that could have CIS then Warren.
It was only available for the 11/44 and F-11 based machines. (11/23 11/24)

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 17:02:40 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 09:02:40 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: "Steven M. Schultz"'s message of "Tue, 9 May 2000 20:32:53 -0700 (PDT)"
References: <200005100332.UAA19137@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-ID: <85g0rqzy3z.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

"Steven M. Schultz" <sms at moe.2bsd.com> writes:
>       There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
>       on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
>       well - I forget).

What bit pattern does that instruction have?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 17:11:24 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:11:24 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <200005100332.UAA19137@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510090352.22474E-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On Tue, 9 May 2000, Steven M. Schultz wrote:

Hi, all.

> > From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
...
> >   CIS: commercial instruction set (opcodes 0x7d00..0x7eff).
> 
> 	Not a popular option at all.  At the time DEC was trying to make the
> 	11 more of a COBOL machine but the CIS option was too little, too late
> 	and expensive (plus it wouldn't fit as I recall on a 11/70 - just the
> 	11/44 and newer).

Actually, not even those. It's the 11/44 and the KDF-11 based systems
only, which means 11/23 and 11/24.

...
> > FIS and CIS isn't imlemented in Supnik's simulator, and I haven't
> > found any documentation.  Does anyone know more about those?  Why
> > is there both an FADD and an ADDF instruction?
> 	
> 	Two different machines.  The FADD was part of the FIS option for the 
> 	11/40 only (I don't recall ever hearing of someone adding the FIS
> 	to a 11/45 or 70).  The 11/45, 70 and later all had the FPU 
> 	as an option or standard (the KDJ-11{A,B} had the instructions standard
> 	but you could buy (~$600 at the time) an accelerator chip to speed
> 	them up).   I don't think there were any models after the 11/70
> 	that used the FIS.

FIS is only for 11/35, 11/40 and the LSI-11. And it's a real brain-damaged
thing too. Lucky us FPU came along.

> 	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
> 	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
> 	well - I forget).

Yes, CSM is in the J-11. There is also TSTSET in J11, but I wonder if
anyone uses it.

Speaking of CSM, by the way. Slighty off-topic perhaps, but in
RSX-11M-PLUS they used to have a rather complex way of getting to
supervisor mode in user programs, since the 11/70 didn't have CSM. Then
came the J-11, and DEC changed things around on systems having CSM to use
this instruction instead. It turned out that this improved code quite a
lot, so they implemented the CSM instruction by emulation on the 11/70 as
well.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 17:41:31 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 09:41:31 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of "Wed, 10 May 2000 09:11:24 +0200 (MET DST)"
References: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510090352.22474E-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <85bt2ezwb8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > 	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
> > 	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
> > 	well - I forget).
> 
> Yes, CSM is in the J-11. There is also TSTSET in J11, but I wonder if
> anyone uses it.

Ok, so CSM is found in 11/44 and J11 machines?

And TSTSET is found only in J11?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 17:46:50 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:46:50 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <85bt2ezwb8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510094549.22474H-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 10 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

> Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > > 	There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was
> > > 	on the 11/44 only (or did it make it into the later KDJ-11 line as
> > > 	well - I forget).
> > 
> > Yes, CSM is in the J-11. There is also TSTSET in J11, but I wonder if
> > anyone uses it.
> 
> Ok, so CSM is found in 11/44 and J11 machines?

Yes.

> And TSTSET is found only in J11?

Yes.
I think that the J11 had one or two other new instructions as well, but
I'll have to look it up at home, unless someone beats me to it.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 18:01:44 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 10:01:44 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of "Wed, 10 May 2000 09:46:50 +0200 (MET DST)"
References: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510094549.22474H-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <857ld2zvdj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > And TSTSET is found only in J11?
> Yes.
> I think that the J11 had one or two other new instructions as well, but
> I'll have to look it up at home, unless someone beats me to it.

WRTLCK perhaps?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Wed May 10 20:55:32 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:55:32 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
In-Reply-To: <857ld2zvdj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510125423.22474I-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 10 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

> Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > > And TSTSET is found only in J11?
> > Yes.
> > I think that the J11 had one or two other new instructions as well, but
> > I'll have to look it up at home, unless someone beats me to it.
> 
> WRTLCK perhaps?

Yup. That sounds familiar. The J11 have several design features aimed at
multi-processor systems. None were produced, however.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Wed May 10 23:02:04 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 10 May 2000 15:02:04 +0200
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: "Steven M. Schultz"'s message of "Tue, 9 May 2000 20:22:57 -0700 (PDT)"
Message-ID: <85snvqy2wj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Ok, I've tried to collect all information and make a handy table.
I've also looked quit a bit at the processor feature table at
http://www.pdp11.org/mirrors/www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/table.html

Could you please check that this table is correct?  In particular,
some features may be optional instead of standard (yes) or missing
(no), or vice versa.

Some models are listed as (see XXX), where XXX is a CPU model used in
that machine.  Are there more opportunities for doing that?  It would
be nice to have two tables: "Machine model 11/NN used CPU models X11 or
Y11."  "CPU model X11 had features A, B , and C."  Or something like
that.

Model	EIS	EIS40	CSM	TSTSET,	FPP	CIS	FIS
				WRTLCK

03	(see LSI11) (LSI-11 or LSI-11/2)
04	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
05	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
10	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
15	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
20	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
21	(see T11)
23	(see F11)
24	(see F11)
34	yes	yes	no	no	yes	no	no
35	opt	yes	no	no	no?	no	opt
40	opt	yes	no	no	no	no?	opt
44	yes	yes	yes	no	opt	opt     no?
45      (see KB11)
50      (see KB11)
53	(see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
55      (see KB11+) (KB-11D)
60	yes	yes	no	no	yes[2]	no	no
70	(see KB11+) (KB-11B or KB-11C)
73	(see J11) (KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B)
83	(see J11) (KDJ-11B?C?)
84	(see J11) (KDJ-11B?C?)
93	(see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
94	(see J11) (KDJ-11D?)

KB11	yes	yes	no	no	opt	no	no
KB11+   yes	yes	no	no	yes[1]	no	no
J11	yes	yes	yes	yes	yes	opt	no
LSI11	opt	yes	no	no	no	no	opt
T11	no	no	no	no	no	no	no
F11	yes	yes	no	no	opt	opt	no

[1] = really optional, but most shipped with fpp
[2] = microcoded fpp standard, accelerated hardware fpp optional

EIS = RTT, SPL, MARK, SXT, MUL, DIV, ASH, ASHC, XOR, SOB
EIS40 = RTT, MARK, SXT, XOR, SOB
FPP = CFCC, SETF, SETI, SETD, SETL, LDFPS, STFPS, STST, CLRF,
      TSTF, ABSF, NEGF, MULF, MODF, ADDF, LDF, SUBF, CMPF, STF,
      DIVF, STEXP, STCFI, STCFF', LDEXP, LDCIF, LDCFF'
CIS = L2D, L3D, ADDP, ADDN, ADDNI, ADDPI, ASHN, ASHP, ASHNI,
      ASHPI, CMPC, CMPCI, CMPN, CMPP, CMPNI, CMPPI, CVTLN,
      CVTLP, CVT, CVTLNI, CVTLPI, CVTNL, CVTPL, CVLNI, CVTPLI,
      CVTNP, CVTPN, CVTNPI, CVTPNI, DIVP, DIVPI, LOCC, LOCCI,
      MATC, MATCI, MOVC, MOVCI, MOVRC, MOVRCI, MOVTC, MOVTCI,
      MULP, MULPI, SCANC, SCANCI, SKPC, SKPCI, SPANC, SPANCI,
      SUBN, SUBP, SUBNI, SUBPI
FIS = FADD, FDIV, FMUL, FSUB

KB11 = KB-11
KB11+ = KB-11B, KB-11C, or KB-11D
J11 = KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B
LSI11 = LSI-11 or LSI-11/2
T11 = ?
F11 = ?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Thu May 11 00:15:55 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 16:15:55 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <85snvqy2wj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000510154632.22474K-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 10 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

[table deleted...]

First I think it's wrong of you to call the limited EIS stuff implemented
by default on the 11/40 "EIS40". It's just that parts of the EIS was
always available, with or without the optional EIS.

Second, the FPU implemented in the 11/60 was a bit special, and not
compatible with the normal FPU, which was an option. I'm not aware of
anything that used the 11/60 internal FPU stuff.
Specifically, it used the normal processor registers for operations, and I
don't remember exactly if the data format was compatible, but it didn't
have double precision at all. I can probably dig up specific details if
you are interested. I think I have a processor handbook for the 11/60
somewhere.

About processor names:

KA11 was the 11/15 and 11/20.
KB11-A was the 11/45, 11/50.
KB11-B was the 11/70.
KB11-C was the 11/70.
KB11-D was the 11/55.
KB11-Cm and KB-11E was the never produced 11/74.
KD11-A was the 11/35 and 11/40.
KD11-B was the 11/05 and 11/10.
KD11-D was the 11/04.
KD11-E was the 11/34.
KD11-EA was the 11/34a.
KD11-[FHQ] was the 11/03.
KD11-HA was the LSI-11/2.
KD11-K was the 11/60.
KD11-Z was the 11/44.

KDF11 is F-11 based.
KDJ11 is J-11 based.

All as far as I can glean from various sources.
KE11 is not a processor, but instead different processor options, such as
EIS, FIS, EAE and such.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From pat at transarc.ibm.com  Thu May 11 01:37:51 2000
From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:37:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <200005100135.LAA02228@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000510111921.6129B-100000@smithfield.transarc.ibm.com>

On Wed, 10 May 2000 johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au wrote:
> 
> Floating point is a bit more problematic. The kernel (see crevat latter) didn't
> require it, but had to save FP status and registers on context switches.
> Quite a few processors had the FPP as an option, and so there was FPP emulation
> build into the kernel (conditionally). There were versions of the C compiler
> that had code tables for the FIS, to suit the 11/35/40.
> 

This discussion brings back memories ... I once found a bug in the kernel
floating-point stuff on V7m on an 11/40 (without FIS).  Turned out that,
if you took a zero-length file, chmod'ed it to be executable, and then
tried to run it, the kernel would take a path through the code that it
didn't normally take, in which it tried to save the *real* FP registers -
which were not there, and attempting to touch the missing registers would
panic the machine.

I found this while I was a lab assistant for a computer architecture
course, taking care of this 11/40 that the department had just aquired
(another department was about to discard it, so we picked it up ...), and
which was being used by students learning assembly language programming.
As you might imagine, these folks generated zero-length a.out files *all
the time* (since that's what 'as' would sometimes output if your source
code had errors in it), and sometimes they'd try to execute them.
Therefore, the machine was crashing a couple of times a day until I found
and fixed the bug ...

--Pat.



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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Thu May 11 02:20:58 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:20:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification
Message-ID: <200005101620.JAA28584@moe.2bsd.com>

From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
>>       There was also the CSM (Call Supervisor Mode) instruction which was

> What bit pattern does that instruction have?

	070DD

	It's a single operand instruction.

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com  Thu May 11 03:06:12 2000
From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:06:12 -0400
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <000510130612.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>

>Some models are listed as (see XXX), where XXX is a CPU model used in
>that machine.  Are there more opportunities for doing that?  It would
>be nice to have two tables: "Machine model 11/NN used CPU models X11 or
>Y11."  "CPU model X11 had features A, B , and C."  Or something like
>that.

It's complicated by the fact that often the same CPU module was used in
differently DEC-labeled systems.  For example, a late-rev KDJ11B with
PMI memory in a Q-bus is an 11/83; the exact same CPU board with non-PMI
memory in a Q-bus is an 11/73.  And the exact same CPU board in a very
different backplane is an 11/84.

And an 11/73 can also have a KDJ11A in it, a very different module.
See Micronote #39.

At one point I began writing up a "KDJ11-x" FAQ, but never got it
finished.  There are many variations between different revs of the
J11 CPU chip and the boards, especially with respect to whether
FPJ11's work properly or not.  Many (but not all) of the KDJ11 differences
are well described in Micronote #39, _KDJ11-A and KDJ11-B Differences_.

(Side hint: everyone should have a copy of the Micronotes.  If you don't
have a printed set, you can read them online at

  http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/

by clicking on "Micronotes").

>53     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)

Yes, the 11/53 is a KDJ11-D.

>93     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
>94     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)

93's and 94's are KDJ11-E's.

>J11 = KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B

And lots of other systems.  Some DEC peripherals (most noticably the
early HSC storage controllers for VAXclusters) have J11's, several Xerox
laserprinters used J11's, DEC PRO380's used J11's.  Many third-party
CPU boards use J11's, it's not unusual to see them scrounging the used
market for HSC's to strip the J11 from, as the HSC's generally had late-rev
J11's.  (And Harris hasn't made the J11 chips for many years now.)

>T11 = ?

Never sold as a "PDP-11" system, though the chip does implement the
basic PDP-11 instruction set (and some of the add-ons.)  It was sold
by DEC in the KXT11-CA single board computer, which had a T11, 32K RAM,
up to 32K of EPROM, 3 serial lines, some parallel I/O, and a Q-bus
interface.  For more information see

  Micronote #16, _KXT11-CA Development Tools_

  Micronote #18, _KXT11-CA DMA Programming_

  Micronote #32, _KXT11-CA Parallel I/O_

  Micronote #34, _Programming KXT-11C Multi SLU_

You can find T11 chips in several Q-bus and Unibus peripherals, most notably
the RQDX1, 2, and 3 (the chip labeled "27-17311-01").

>F11 = ?

aka "Fonz-11", the CPU chipset used in 11/23's, 11/24's, the lower-end
DEC PRO's, etc.

The CPU chipset used in the LSI-11/02 and /03 is a Western Digital chipset,
and the same set was used (with different microcode) by other CPU makers.
In particular, the Alpha Micro two-board S-100 set.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927



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From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu May 11 04:03:35 2000
From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp at world.std.com)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:03:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <000510130612.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000510135452.6336D-100000@world.std.com>

> 
> >53     (see J11) (KDJ-11D?)
> 
> Yes, the 11/53 is a KDJ11-D.

Not KDF-11B????

> And lots of other systems.  Some DEC peripherals (most noticably the
> early HSC storage controllers for VAXclusters) have J11's, several Xerox

HSC was F11, J11 or T11???  I thought T11 or f11 in the early models.

> laserprinters used J11's, DEC PRO380's used J11's.  Many third-party
> CPU boards use J11's, it's not unusual to see them scrounging the used
> market for HSC's to strip the J11 from, as the HSC's generally had late-rev
> J11's.  (And Harris hasn't made the J11 chips for many years now.)

> >T11 = ?
> 
> Never sold as a "PDP-11" system, though the chip does implement the
> basic PDP-11 instruction set (and some of the add-ons.)  It was sold
> by DEC in the KXT11-CA single board computer, which had a T11, 32K RAM,
> up to 32K of EPROM, 3 serial lines, some parallel I/O, and a Q-bus
> interface.  For more information see
> 

You forget the falcon card KXT-11A, That with two MXT11 memory IO combo
have you 32kw ram, 4 serial, boot and some parallel that would run rt-11.

From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com  Thu May 11 04:16:15 2000
From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 14:16:15 -0400
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
Message-ID: <000510141615.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>

>> Yes, the 11/53 is a KDJ11-D.

>Not KDF-11B????

The KDF11-B (why are people putting the hyphens in all the wrong places?) is
the quad-height 11/23 with two SLU's and boot ROM.

Tim.


From johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au  Thu May 11 09:23:18 2000
From: johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au (johnh at psych.usyd.edu.au)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:23:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PDP-11 Processor features/options (was HELP PDP-11 instruction)
Message-ID: <200005102323.JAA29607@psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>


I have updated my web page, fixing a few typos, and made more distinctions
between various processors, along with a table of 'obscure instructions'.

	http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/table.html

Does anyone out there know the internal implementation details of the J11
chip. I assume it's micro sequenced, but what is the micro word length?


PS

I have found the 'PDP-11 Family Differences Table' (in the PDP-11 Architecture
Handbook and others) to be wrong in several places.

						Regards John


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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Thu May 11 15:56:02 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 07:56:02 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <000510130612.202009f2@trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000511075207.6110D-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On Wed, 10 May 2000, Tim Shoppa wrote:

> >J11 = KDJ-11A or KDJ-11B
> 
> And lots of other systems.  Some DEC peripherals (most noticably the
> early HSC storage controllers for VAXclusters) have J11's, several Xerox
> laserprinters used J11's, DEC PRO380's used J11's.  Many third-party
> CPU boards use J11's, it's not unusual to see them scrounging the used
> market for HSC's to strip the J11 from, as the HSC's generally had late-rev
> J11's.  (And Harris hasn't made the J11 chips for many years now.)

Actually, the first HSCs (HSC-50 and HSC-70) have an F11. Hmmm, a bit
unsure about the HSC-70 come to think of it. The HSC-50 is definitely F-11
anyway, and that's the oldest one. Boots of DECtape II. Slow as hell
because of it. :-)

> You can find T11 chips in several Q-bus and Unibus peripherals, most notably
> the RQDX1, 2, and 3 (the chip labeled "27-17311-01").

What cpu is in the DEUNA and DEQNA? I think those also have a T11.

> The CPU chipset used in the LSI-11/02 and /03 is a Western Digital chipset,
> and the same set was used (with different microcode) by other CPU makers.
> In particular, the Alpha Micro two-board S-100 set.

And I think DEC even supported the possibility of writing your own
microcode for this one.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From lars at nocrew.org  Thu May 11 16:20:51 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 11 May 2000 08:20:51 +0200
Subject: Obscure opcodes
In-Reply-To: johnh@psych.usyd.edu.au's message of "Thu, 11 May 2000 09:23:18 +1000 (EST)"
Message-ID: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Does anyone know that bit patterns these instructions use:
        commercial instruction set,
        FADD, FDIV, FMUL, FDIV, (and any other FIS instructions if any),
        LDUB, MED, XFC
?

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From rivie at teraglobal.com  Thu May 11 22:03:35 2000
From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 06:03:35 -0600
Subject: Obscure opcodes
In-Reply-To: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
References: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <v04210103b5404dc720f4@[10.10.50.26]>

>Does anyone know that bit patterns these instructions use:
>        commercial instruction set,

According to the PDP11/04/34a/44/60/70 processor handbook
(1979-1980),

addn 076050
addp 076070
addni 076150
addpi 076170

ashn 076056
ashp 076076
ashni 076156
ashpi 076176

cmpc 076044
cmpci 076144

cmpn 076052
cmpp 076072
cmpni 076152
cmppi 076172

cvtln 076057
cvtlp 076077
cvtlni 076157
cvtlpi 076177

cvtnl 076053
cvtpl 076073
cvtnli 076153
cvtpli 076173

cvtnp 076055
cvtpn 076054
cvtnpi 076155
cvtpni 076154

divp 076075
divpi 076175

locc 076040
locci 076140

l2dr 07602r

l3dr 07606r

matc 076045
matci 076145

movc 076030
movci 076130

movrc 076031
movrci 076131

movtc 076032
movtci 076132

mulp 076074
mulpi 076174

scanc 076042
scanci 076142

skpc 076041
skpci 076141

spanc 076043
spanci 076143

subn 076051
subp 076071
subni 076151
subpi 076171

>        FADD, FDIV, FMUL, FDIV, (and any other FIS instructions if any),

According to Microcomputer Handbook (1977-1978):

fadd 07500r
fsub 07501r
fmul 07502r
fdiv 07503r

and those are the only instructions listed under FIS.

>        LDUB, MED, XFC
>?

Back to 11/04/34a/44/60/70:

med 076600
ldub 170003
xfc 0767xy
  - x = "used for initial instruction group determination",
  - y = "further instruction determination"
     (this is a user-defined instruction via writable microcode in the 11/60).

-- 
Roger Ivie
TeraGlobal Communications Corporation
1750 North Research Park Way
North Logan, UT 84341
Phone: (435)787-0555
Fax: (435)787-0516

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From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com  Thu May 11 22:37:50 2000
From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 8:37:50 -0400
Subject: Obscure opcodes
Message-ID: <000511083750.20203768@trailing-edge.com>

>>        LDUB, MED, XFC
>>?

>Back to 11/04/34a/44/60/70:
>
>med 076600

The MED instruction is used in RT-11 to determine if the machine is an
11/60.  It's probably also used in the 11/60-specific XXDP diagnostics.
I don't think that it's used in any of the -11 Unices.

Note that MED is really a two-word-long instruction.

>ldub 170003

My 11/60 Processor Handbook also lists MNS (170004), MNP (170005), and
MAS (170006).  These are "11/60 FP11-E Maintenance Instructions" and
"This set together with the LDUB instruction should be used for diagnostic
purposes only" according to the 11/60 book.

Note that no version of DEC MACRO-11 recognizes MNS, MNP, MAS, or LDUB.

The MED instruction is recognized in MACRO-11 only as MED6X.  The "6X"
jibes with the rumored existence of experimental variants on the 11/60
processor, one of which is the multi-processor 11/64.

-- 
 Tim Shoppa                        Email: shoppa at trailing-edge.com
 Trailing Edge Technology          WWW:   http://www.trailing-edge.com/
 7328 Bradley Blvd		   Voice: 301-767-5917
 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817           Fax:   301-767-5927


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From lars at nocrew.org  Thu May 11 22:37:48 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 11 May 2000 14:37:48 +0200
Subject: Obscure opcodes
In-Reply-To: Roger Ivie's message of "Thu, 11 May 2000 06:03:35 -0600"
References: <85vh0lwqt8.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <v04210103b5404dc720f4@[10.10.50.26]>
Message-ID: <857ld1w9cz.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Thank you all, now I have all the opcode information I need!

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From allisonp at world.std.com  Thu May 11 23:25:45 2000
From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp at world.std.com)
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:25:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help: PDP-11 instruction classification (again!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000511075207.6110D-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1000511092245.25873A-100000@world.std.com>

> > You can find T11 chips in several Q-bus and Unibus peripherals, most notably
> > the RQDX1, 2, and 3 (the chip labeled "27-17311-01").
> 
> What cpu is in the DEUNA and DEQNA? I think those also have a T11.

I thought DEUNA was 68k and DEQNA is definatly state machines and random
logic no t11.  DELQA is 68k.

> > and the same set was used (with different microcode) by other CPU makers.
> > In particular, the Alpha Micro two-board S-100 set.
> 
> And I think DEC even supported the possibility of writing your own
> microcode for this one.

Yes there was a WCS that filled the FIS microm spot (and a full board
under it).

Allison




From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 12 08:30:56 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 08:30:56 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Also: PUPS mailing list digest
Message-ID: <200005112230.IAA03356@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Looks like we've got a spurt of email in the PUPS mailing list. For those
unaccustomed to this, you might prefer to switch over to the digest version
which comes out at most twice a week. To do this, send mail to
majordomo at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au with these lines in the email body:

	unsubscribe pups
	subscribe pups-digest

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Sat May 13 14:53:14 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 14:53:14 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Some changes forecast for the PUPS Archive & web site
Message-ID: <200005130453.OAA15226@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

[ apologies to those who get this twice ]

Hi all, I just thought I'd let you know that there will be some changes
with the PUPS Archive and the web site coming along soon.

As you know, SCO has dropped their Ancient UNIX license to $0.00. In a
matter of days, they will provide a web form on their web site so that
you can agree to the license. After you have done this, you will be
able to obtain 5th-7th Edition UNIX, 32V, Mini UNIX and PDP-11 System III
from their web site.

I am hoping that you will also be able to click through to a CGI script
on the PUPS web site, where you can put in your full name and e-mail
address, and you will be granted access to the larger PUPS Archive. I
need to collect name/e-mail addresses, so that later if you ask for a copy
of the Archive on CD or other media, we can verify that you have agreed
to the new SCO license.

I am modifying the PUPS Archive so that it will be accessible via both
FTP and HTTP. The access mechanism will also allow mirrors of the Archive
to be set up. SO: if you have a good 24-hr/day network connection and
about 1G of disk space available, I would be most grateful if you could
set up a mirror of the PUPS Archive.

The mechanism to request PUPS on CD has been streamlined, but it still
depends on volunteers to help out with the copying. If you can volunteer
to do this as well, we would be most grateful. We will be even more
grateful once the free SCO license gets Slashdotted :-)

One thing I definitely need to do is to tidy up and/or reorganise the
PUPS web site at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS. I'll try to do this
over the next 6-8 weeks. Any suggestions or comments are welcome!

The PUPS Archive itself needs some attention. For example, some of the
systems like PWB, 32V and System III are either incomplete or haven't
been fuly extracted into a portable format like tar. I would welcome any
offers to help curate & fix up the archive.

When this _does_ get slashdotted, and it will, the first thing people
will want to do is either view the old source, or bring up the old
versions. Is there a volunteer who would like to bring the disk
images in Boot_Images up to date, and provide better instructions so
that a PDP-newbie can boot V5, V6, V7, 2.11BSD on the common emulators
such as Ersatz, Supnik, Begemot etc.

And finally, the machine running the PUPS Archive, minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au,
will be replaced in the next week or two. Currently, minnie is a 486DX100,
and I have a Celeron 400 with FreeBSD 4.0 installed as her replacement.
There will be some broken functionality after I switch over, knowing Murphy's
Law. Please e-mail me with details if you spot something that isn't right.

That's about it. There's a lot to do. I'd love some help :-)

Cheers!
	Warren


From ecollins at outstart.com  Sun May 14 15:46:34 2000
From: ecollins at outstart.com (Efton Collins)
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:46:34 -0400
Subject: SCO site has Unix for download
Message-ID: <NEBBKFAJOMCEBIKOHMMHKEBMCAAA.ecollins@outstart.com>

Hey,

You may have seen it already, but I haven't seen an announcement on the
PUPS list -

SCO has got Unix 5th, 6th and 7th Editions, Mini Unix, System III and 32V
available on their site for download. You can access them by going to
www.sco.com/offers/ancient.html and accepting the license.

Congratulations PUPS, this is a milestone.

Efton



From lars at nocrew.org  Mon May 15 17:47:01 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 15 May 2000 09:47:01 +0200
Subject: WWW page for PDP-11 support in GNU binutils
In-Reply-To: "Efton Collins"'s message of "Sun, 14 May 2000 01:46:34 -0400"
Message-ID: <85zopss1ai.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

I created a page to reflect the progress of the PDP-11 support in
GNU binutils:
        http://pdp11.nocrew.org/

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Mon May 15 18:56:24 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:56:24 +1000 (EST)
Subject: WWW page for PDP-11 support in GNU binutils
In-Reply-To: <85zopss1ai.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> from lars brinkhoff at "May 15, 2000  9:47: 1 am"
Message-ID: <200005150856.SAA31129@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by lars brinkhoff:
> I created a page to reflect the progress of the PDP-11 support in
> GNU binutils:
>         http://pdp11.nocrew.org/

Thanks Lars. Now that Minix is freely available, some of the applications
there could be easily ported over to the PDP-11.

Ciao,
	Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue May 16 08:36:49 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 08:36:49 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PUPS Archive access now available
Message-ID: <200005152236.IAA34383@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

All,
	Access to The PUPS Archive can now be obtained with no human
intervention. Go to http://www.sco.com/offers/ancient.html, agree to the
SCO license. On the next page, click on `apply for access to the PUPS Archive'.
Fill in your full name and e-mail address, and you will be given immediate
access to the archive.

I'm arranging for at least one mirror of the PUPS Archive in the USA.
More would be welcome :-) Let me know if you can help!

At present, the PUPS Archive can be accessed by FTP, HTTP and rsync.

No more paper licenses, no more 6 week wait, yayy!!!

Cheers,
	Warren

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From frank at panix.com  Wed May 17 00:34:32 2000
From: frank at panix.com (Frank Wortner)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 10:34:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: A Public Thank You
In-Reply-To: <200005142045.GAA10926@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0005160929210.10013-100000@panix6.panix.com>

I just signed up for my free(!) SCO Ancient Unix license.  It's great fun
to be able to explore again the code I first saw and worked on as a
student all too many years ago.  It seems only right to thank those who
gave me access to this resource.

Thank you,  Warren,  for your work in convincing SCO to make this
possible.  Also thanks for the archives,  the mailing list,  the idea,
and everything else.

Thank you,  SCO,  for seeing the historic value of the code and generously
making it available to enthusiasts.  SCO's attitude towards this legacy is
extremely rare amoung corporations,  and they deserve our gratitude.

Thanks also to everyone who contributed material to the PUPS archive.
In the face of such generousity I'm sorry I don't have (or think I don't
have) any material left from the PDP-11 era to add to the collection.

And now,  back to wallowing in PDP-11 nostalgia.  :-)

Frank Wortner




From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed May 17 08:19:45 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 08:19:45 +1000 (EST)
Subject: A Public Thank You
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.21.0005160929210.10013-100000@panix6.panix.com> from Frank Wortner at "May 16, 2000 10:34:32 am"
Message-ID: <200005162219.IAA41705@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Frank Wortner:
> I just signed up for my free(!) SCO Ancient Unix license.  It's great fun
> to be able to explore again the code I first saw and worked on as a
> student all too many years ago.  It seems only right to thank those who
> gave me access to this resource.
> Frank Wortner

I'd like to add some thanks to Frank's list.

Thanks to those people who forked out their US$100 for the paper SCO license.
It's a shame you can't get a refund. At least you have a real, signed,
license that you can wave at your friends :-)

Our first contact at SCO, Dion Johnson, fought with bureacracy and the legal
naysayers to get us the first SCO license. Thanks, Dion!

We have a lot of PUPS Volunteers behind the scenes who have been burning CDs
and other media in the past 2-3 years. With the free license, they're going
to get much busier, but are still volunteers. Everybody who has received a
CD should congratulate these people. Soren Jorvang in particular deserves
thanks.

Hint: if you have a CD burner, YOUR HELP IS URGENTLY REQUIRED. Email me!

Finally, the bulk of the files in the archive were donated by a few people:
Dennis Ritchie, Henry Spencer, Keith Bostic, Tim Shoppa, Steven Schultz
and Kirk McKusick are the most notable. Thanks to all those who have
donated old files and information to the archive!

Some quick stats: 100+ people have obtained for PUPS Archive access in the
last 24 hours. Web activity was 1.2G, compared to a usual 36M, in the last
24 hours. Haven't checked ftp yet. Not bad for a 486! I'm switching over to
the Celeron today, so expect a few hours of downtime and a few glitches.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Thu May 18 16:52:01 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 16:52:01 +1000 (EST)
Subject: test mail for new PUPS list
Message-ID: <200005180652.QAA50687@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

The PUPS list, web site & Archive has migrated to a Celeron. Just some test
mail to confirm that the mailing list still works. Please ignore. Warren


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Sun May 21 16:10:21 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 16:10:21 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Ultrix V3.1 broken
Message-ID: <200005210610.QAA72885@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

----- Forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----

	From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>

While investigating building a Ultrix V3.1 tape I discovered that the file
on the archive is corrupt.

	Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz

	File 34: The ULTRIX-11 /usr file system in dump/restor format

	Zane
----- End of forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----

Wilko Bulte sent that in to the PUPS Archive. Wilko, do you still have the
tape. Can you try to read it again?!

Cheers,
	Warren

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From wkb at chello.nl  Sun May 21 20:50:59 2000
From: wkb at chello.nl (Wilko Bulte)
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 10:50:59 +0000
Subject: Ultrix V3.1 broken
In-Reply-To: <200005210610.QAA72885@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>; from wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au on Sun, May 21, 2000 at 04:10:21PM +1000
References: <200005210610.QAA72885@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20000521105059.A21186@freebie.wbnet>

On Sun, May 21, 2000 at 04:10:21PM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:


Warren,

When I untar the .tgz I get files named tapeblock[0-33]
In tapeblock4 is an index of the original tape, which lists the
various files on the tape. These are numbered *1* til *34*

I think this is just an off by one thing, because there is no tapeblock34
at all.

Please check if this is the case. I don't have any PDP operational so I
cannot verify the contents of tapeblock33. But I'm pretty sure this is /usr

W/


> ----- Forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----
> 
> 	From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh at aracnet.com>
> 
> While investigating building a Ultrix V3.1 tape I discovered that the file
> on the archive is corrupt.
> 
> 	Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz
> 
> 	File 34: The ULTRIX-11 /usr file system in dump/restor format
> 
> 	Zane
> ----- End of forwarded message from Zane H. Healy -----
> 
> Wilko Bulte sent that in to the PUPS Archive. Wilko, do you still have the
> tape. Can you try to read it again?!
> 
> Cheers,
> 	Warren
---end quoted text---

-- 
Wilko Bulte 	FreeBSD, the power to serve  	http://www.freebsd.org


From dave at fgh.geac.com.au  Mon May 22 16:39:32 2000
From: dave at fgh.geac.com.au (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 16:39:32 +1000 (EST)
Subject: ACMS, Questions on Internet History. (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0005221634220.26282-100000@fgh.geac.com.au>

Perhaps some of the learned people on this list can help this chappie
out?  The ACMS is the Australian Computer Museum Society, and could in
turn be a valuable resource for this list; note that he signs himself
as a "PDP-11 Support Consultant"...

Replies to him, please, unless deemed of interest to the list.

-- 
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU  dave at geac.com.au  Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 12:53:26
From: John  G E R E M I N <megajohn at sneaker.net.au>
To: ACS NSW List <acsnsw-l at onelist.com>
Subject: ACMS, Questions on Internet History.

Greetings All,  (from a Netscape v3, Eudora and Win-3.11 system),

The ACMS has been asked about the History Of The Internet In Australia.

This assumes that the 'Internet' is defined as using IP protocols,
 and the World-Wide-Web that provided permanent (or semi-permanent)
 connections between major nodes and the end-users.

We also know that DEC had world-wide DECNET for its corporate use.
We know that U**X systems had FTP, TELNET etc available on systems
  using fixed line connections (eg within Unis, etc).

We know about the ArpaNet origins (we hope)

We know? that the first Internet users here were the CSIRO and Unis.
But were they connected initially to the overseas Internet ?

So some questions, designed to sort out some confusions.
First hand experiences would be good as would pointers to documentation.

	Note - all these relate to Australia (but answers may include 
		info relating to overseas contexts).

  a1	First use of Fido-Net or other BBS using Dial-up messaging ?

  a2	First use of E-MAIL via FidoNet or other BBS ?

  a3	First use of FreeWare/File Distribution via FidoNet or other BBS ?

  a4	First use of Message/Conference Areas/Groups on BBS ?
 
  b1	First use of permanent IP addresses ?

  b2	First use of E-MAIL via IP addresses ?

  b3	First use of File Transfers via Internet ?

  b4	First use of NewsGroups via Internet ?

  b5	First use of Graphical Displays via Internet ?

  b6	First use of 'http://www' type URL addressing via Internet ?

  b7	First use of two-way (interactive) audio via Internet ?

  b8	First use of two-way (intereactive) video via Internet ?

  c1	Any other major Internet milestones in the Australian environment ?


Many thanks, John G. (PS you don't need to answer all questions!) 

 John GEREMIN, megajohn at sneaker.net.au   Ph. 02-9764 4855
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 PDP-11 Support Consultant, MEGATRONICS, Australia.
http://www.posit.com.au/megatronics/  NEW Mob. => 0427 10 20 60 <=

Hon. Treasurer, Australian COMPUTER MUSEUM Society Inc.
 http://www.terrigal.net.au/~acms/     Fax: 02-9764 4679
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 



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From jfoust at threedee.com  Mon May 22 23:54:53 2000
From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust)
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 08:54:53 -0500
Subject: ACMS, Questions on Internet History. (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0005221634220.26282-100000@fgh.geac.com.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.0.20000522085035.01c28580@pc>

At 04:39 PM 5/22/00 +1000, Dave Horsfall wrote:
>   a1    First use of Fido-Net or other BBS using Dial-up messaging ?
>   a2    First use of E-MAIL via FidoNet or other BBS ?
>   a3    First use of FreeWare/File Distribution via FidoNet or other BBS ?

Tom Jennings, the creator of FidoNet, is still available at
<tomj at wps.com> and there's a history at 
http://wps.com/FidoNet/source/Fido-FidoNet/fhist.html.

Tom is now moderating the Dead Media Project at
http://wps.com/dead-media/index.html.

But by no means was FidoNet the first BBS.

- John



From jeff+pups at websitefactory.net  Thu May 25 05:02:07 2000
From: jeff+pups at websitefactory.net (Jeff Johnson)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 15:02:07 -0400
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
Message-ID: <156904.3168169327@kevlar.websitefactory.net>


Hey guys.  I've got a VAXstation 2000 with 12MB of RAM, and two RD54 drives,
one of which is developing bad sectors (the secondary).  I've got the
eight bitplane graphics card and no terminal available.  I'd really love to
get a copy of Ultrix 4.2 installed on this machine, but from what I can
tell it isn't available.  I also don't have a TK50 or any external storage,
so it looks like I'll be netbooting.

The machine currently has OpenVMS 7.2 on it which I can re-license and get
running if it would help for an install.  I've had almost no success with
NetBSD either.  The only kernel that would boot was a 1.3 snapshot release.
All of the 1.4 kernels crap out immediately upon booting, and nobodys seems
to be able to help me.

Also, if anyone has a source for additional expansion for this machine, I'd
be grateful.  Thanks very much for your time.  I really want to get this
machine up and running again.

--
Jeffrey H. Johnson - jeff at websitefactory.net - System Administration - TrN
Barnet Worldwide Enterprises - The Website Factory - www.websitefactory.net


From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Thu May 25 10:23:26 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:23:26 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
In-Reply-To: <156904.3168169327@kevlar.websitefactory.net> from Jeff Johnson at "May 24, 2000  3: 2: 7 pm"
Message-ID: <200005250023.KAA01576@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Jeff Johnson:
> 
> Hey guys.  I've got a VAXstation 2000 with 12MB of RAM, and two RD54 drives,
> eight bitplane graphics card and no terminal available.  I'd really love to
> get a copy of Ultrix 4.2 installed on this machine.

I'd recommend you look into the Quasijarus project at
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/

and join their mailing list by sending a request to Michael Sokolov:
msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG

Cheers,
	Warren

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Thu May 25 13:27:42 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Wed, 24 May 00 22:27:42 CDT
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
Message-ID: <0005250327.AA15849@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

Jeff Johnson <jeff+pups at websitefactory.net> wrote:

> I've got a VAXstation 2000 with 12MB of RAM, and two RD54 drives,
> one of which is developing bad sectors (the secondary).  I've got the
> eight bitplane graphics card and no terminal available.

Two RD54s? At least one of them must be external then, as there's only room for
one full-height device in the VS2K box itself. I'm going to assume that you
have the standard DEC configuration with one RD54 internal and an expansion
adapter (pizza box) at the bottom with the 2nd external RD54 connected to it.
Hey, except for the lack of TK50Z, you've got pretty much the maximum
configuration from DEC for VS2K: maximum memory, maximum number of disks of
top-of-the-line type, expansion adapter, and top-of-the-line graphics card!

On your expansion adapter, right next to the connector for the external RD54,
you should see a 50-lead Amphenol (aka Centronics) SCSI connector. It is indeed
real SCSI, but the boot ROM, VMS, and Ultrix only support one SCSI device on
it, the TK50Z.

> I also don't have a TK50 or any external storage,

Note that if you can get hold of a TK50Z (a box just like your external RD54,
but with a TK50 drive and a TK50-to-SCSI adapter inside), you can readily plug
it into the connector I just described. I don't think a TK50Z would be that
expensive. Here in Dallas, TX, USA I get bare TK50 drives for $75 apiece and
TK50 drive + TQK50 controller (for Q-bus) pairs for $100 apiece, and I don't
think a TK50Z would be much more expensive.

> so it looks like I'll be netbooting.

Sorry, can't help you with that, I and netbooting have never been able to
successfully coexist in the same machine room at the same time.

> The machine currently has OpenVMS 7.2 on it which I can re-license and get
> running if it would help for an install.

If you have VMS running on one disk, you can use it to install Ultrix on the
other. Talk to me directly for the instructions.

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Thu May 25 13:44:52 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Wed, 24 May 00 22:44:52 CDT
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
Message-ID: <0005250344.AA15967@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

Warren Toomey <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au> wrote:

> I'd recommend you look into the Quasijarus project at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/
>
> and join their mailing list by sending a request to Michael Sokolov:
> msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG

Thanks, Warren, for helping me out with awareness-raising! I have to disappoint
Jeff a little bit, though, that 4.3BSD-Quasijarus support for BabyVAXen is
still a while away, but trust me, we will get there some day! But my project
pages and mailing list are definitely a tremendous resource.

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Thu May 25 18:43:45 2000
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 10:43:45 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Installing an OS on my little friendly VAX-11.
In-Reply-To: <0005250344.AA15967@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Message-ID: <200005250843.KAA01668@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 25 May, Michael Sokolov wrote:

> I have to disappoint
> Jeff a little bit, though, that 4.3BSD-Quasijarus support for BabyVAXen is
> still a while away, but trust me, we will get there some day! 
NetBSD runs on the VS2000. A friend is running a Web-server on a VS2000
(http://wmad93.mathematik.uni-wuerzburg.de/). But the MFM disk support
is broken since 1.4 due to a DMA code cleanup. Netbooting works and you
can connect any generic SCSI disk to the tape port. This works but is
very slow because there is only PIO SCSI on the VS2000... 
-- 



tschüß,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


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From lars at nocrew.org  Fri May 26 00:33:49 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 25 May 2000 16:33:49 +0200
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
In-Reply-To: jkunz@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de's message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 10:43:45 +0200 (CEST)"
Message-ID: <85itw2vgvm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?

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From bqt at Update.UU.SE  Fri May 26 01:30:37 2000
From: bqt at Update.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:30:37 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
In-Reply-To: <85itw2vgvm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000525173018.7767F-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>

On 25 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:

> Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?

Don't remember seeing any. What do you want to know?

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



From jasomill at shaffstall.com  Fri May 26 06:21:20 2000
From: jasomill at shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 15:21:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hello and thanks!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005251459360.7072-100000@guildenstern.shaffstall.com>

After about a week of work (mainly due to a dying RA81 ... see below), I
have successfully installed 2.11BSD on my 11/83. First and foremost,
thanks to a) Steven M. Shultz for so carefully maintaining and updating
(!) CSRG's PDP-11 code to work with hardware such as my MSCP drives and
TMSCP TK50 and b) everyone involved in prodding SCO to release free
Ancient UNIX source licenses.

After dealing with a crippled binary-only Micro/RSX lack-of-a-kit, and as
a FreeBSD user of five-odd years, I decided to bite the bullet and see
what UNIX was/is like on a PDP. Thanks to the work of Steven and a cast of
thousands, it's pretty damned impressive.

The only problems I've been having seem to be coming from disk controllers
without media. More specifically, I get a hard error, followed by an
endless loop of error indications if I try to access one of my RX50s (on
an RQDX3 controller), and the only recourse is a reset. Okay, so the
solution here is simple: don't do it. The bigger problem comes with my
flake-job of an RA81, which, FWIW, is the only fixed disk storage I have.
It has a strange habit: the "A" light goes off and the controller can no
longer access it. If I soft-restart the PDP (under either RSX or UNIX),
the driver connects back to the drive without a glitch. And this gives me
the same loop-of-errors syndrome as an empty RX50. Anyone have any
pointers or sage advice? I figured I may try to modify the MSCP driver to
re-init the controller on a hard error, and try again. But the MSCP code
is fairly complicated, and I know nothing of the protocol. Anyone have any
MSCP documentation which I could beg, borrow, or steal? I'd give the
specific error codes, but I haven't written any down yet and I'm at work.

Also, I am willing to provide a Good Home for any 19" rackmount MSCP
drives in the midwest. Let me rephrase that: any one or two; I have a one
bedroom apartment, and I'm saving a bit of floorspace for a (yet to
materialize) VAX. Also Qbus thinnet or SCSI would be nice, whilst on cloud
780...

TIA,
jasomill


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From jasomill at shaffstall.com  Fri May 26 08:28:09 2000
From: jasomill at shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 17:28:09 -0500 (EST)
Subject: to change without notice
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005251726530.20729-100000@guildenstern.shaffstall.com>

After reading the _entire_ archive of PUPS messages, and realizing that,
no, I'm not crazy and, no, I'm not the only one still interested in old
hardware and software, I dug up two old 16-bit UNIX distributions and
promptly archived 'em. Unfortunately, they're binary only and System-V
based, so I can't just throw 'em in the archive. But when the game is up
on the System-V codebase, I hope these CD-Rs are still around. They are:
	- SCO XENIX 286 2.2, complete OS with development system and text
processing ([tn]roff, etc)
	- Microport System V/AT Development System (runtimes say both 1.3
and 2.3, development stuff says 1.3 - don't know, never booted this one)

All the floppies read without errors, and I've actually booted and run the
XENIX (used it for a tape conversion job a couple years ago) - works as
long as you have a 5.25" floppy drive and reasonably old hardware - I ran
it on a 386 but it doesn't grok VGA.

Also, I have the ability to write TK50 tapes along with a wide range of
other formats (my employer makes tape conversion equipment and software);
no TK25 (unless the old IBM Tandberg VarBlock format is identical - don't
know) or TK70, but just about anything else (need PDP UNIX on an HP 9144A 
cartridge tape; a) why? and b) I can help*!). I'd be happy to cut PDP UNIX
tapes for media and shipping.

Finally, anyone ever used the mtools package to read MS-DOS disks from an
RX50 from a DEC Rainbow? I'm working on it (no Rainbow, but I've got a box
that writes Rainbow disks) and I'd be glad to help anyone interested; I'm
also working on R/W RX50 on FreeBSD.

Jason T. Miller
jasomill at shaffstall.com

* but not much, unless someone is willing to replace the rubber roller
thingy on my HP drive, but, as usual, I digress.



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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 26 08:33:51 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 08:33:51 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <392CE14B.597E81B8@willapabay.org> from "Mike W." at "May 25, 2000  1:16:11 am"
Message-ID: <200005252233.IAA07703@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by Mike W.:
> I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
> hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,
> but no to get get it on the machine, Model: one of two: VS12W-B2 or
> V512W-B2. It is an old sticker, could be a 5 or an S. A tape drive is
> installed, but no tape disk came with it. Is there another OS it can
> run? I wish I knew what to do. I turn it on and it reads something like
> 8, 7, 6, 5, 8, B, C, 3 and then after a VERY long pause, it reads E for
> another long period, then 6 for another long wait and then E forever.
> How do I hook up the Console to work on it. For that matter, what does
> the console look like? How do I go to console mode? Is there some kind
> of manual on it? I have about 8 or 9 monitors and the same amount of
> keyboards and most of the cables. I would like to bring it back to life
> and put it in a show room or something. I have no money, the whole thing
> was given to me. The drives
> were wiped clean (it was at the Hospital, they upgraded). I take it the
> E on the readout tells me, "There is no OS installed". After a month or
> so of searching the internet, I have found a few 'commands' and how to
> wire one cable, a picture and QBUS routing, but nothing on 'where  and
> how the cables go on the back (bulkhead). I need to know how, why and
> when to turn the knobs on the back.
> Yes, I know nothing of this thing and would like to learn. I know the
> MAC a little, MS-DOS  in my sleep. Anyway.....
> 
> Mike Williams
> 4212 S. Pacific Way
> Seaview, Wa. 98644-0068
> tscowboy at willapabay.org

I'll cc this to the Pups mailing list. You should subscribe so that you can
get any answers! Details at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/maillist.html

Ciao,
	Warren

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 26 10:12:40 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:12:40 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Who uploaded these to the PUPS ARchive?
Message-ID: <200005260012.KAA08415@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Hi all,
	I'm just doing some house cleaning on the PUPS Archive. I've
forgotten who uploaded these into the incoming directory?

-rw-r-----  1 wkt   pupsarc      53634 Feb 24  1999 29pro_inclsys.tar.gz
-rw-r-----  1 wkt   pupsarc     777081 Feb 24  1999 29pro_sys.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 pups  pupsarc    5332873 Jan 17 01:48 old-ultrix-32.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 pups  pupsarc  371111664 Mar 20 06:00 old-ultrix.tar.gz

As well, can you supply a README saying what is in these files, too :-)

My memory isn't what it used to me.

Thanks!
	Warren

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From wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri May 26 14:34:18 2000
From: wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:34:18 +1000 (EST)
Subject: More PUPS Donations & Volunteers
Message-ID: <200005260434.OAA09658@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Hi all,
	Since the free SCO license, we've had an enormous demand on our
PUPS volunteers. If there is anybody in Japan who can burn CDs, could you
contact me if you are prepared to burn a few copies of the PUPS CD.

I've made a start on tidying up the archive & moving recently donated
things to appropriate directories. Are there other systems out there
which could be donated to the archive? I've just have a Z8000 SystemIII
system being donated.

I'm happy to take donations, but they may not be moved into the main
archive because I don't want to have my butt sued off.

Ages ago, George Colouris at QMC in the UK had a 9-track tape containing
QED, the visual Unix editor which influenced the development of vi. Can
anybody in the UK read 9-tracks. If so, I'll put you in contact with George.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From obrien at NUXI.com  Fri May 26 14:44:17 2000
From: obrien at NUXI.com (David O'Brien)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 21:44:17 -0700
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <200005252233.IAA07703@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>; from wkt@cs.adfa.edu.au on Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:33:51AM +1000
References: <392CE14B.597E81B8@willapabay.org> <200005252233.IAA07703@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <20000525214417.A58091@dragon.nuxi.com>

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:33:51AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Mike W.:
> > I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
> > hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,

The port-vax at netbsd.org list is full of very VAX clueful people.

-- 
-- David    (obrien at NUXI.com)

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From lars at nocrew.org  Fri May 26 15:59:56 2000
From: lars at nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff)
Date: 26 May 2000 07:59:56 +0200
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
In-Reply-To: Johnny Billquist's message of "Thu, 25 May 2000 17:30:37 +0200 (MET DST)"
References: <Pine.VUL.3.93.1000525173018.7767F-100000@Zeke.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <85em6pvokj.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> On 25 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:
> > Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?
> Don't remember seeing any. What do you want to know?

Everything necessary to emulate one in software.  I have Supnik's 
simulator, but it would be easier if I had proper docs.

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Fri May 26 16:18:57 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 23:18:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PDP-11 MMU docs?
Message-ID: <200005260618.XAA29942@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: lars brinkhoff <lars at nocrew.org>
> Johnny Billquist <bqt at Update.UU.SE> writes:
> > On 25 May 2000, lars brinkhoff wrote:
> > > Is there any PDP-11 MMU documentation available?
> > Don't remember seeing any. What do you want to know?
> 
> Everything necessary to emulate one in software.  I have Supnik's 
> simulator, but it would be easier if I had proper docs.

	Do you also have Harti Brandt's P11 ("Begemot") emulator?  That
	is a _work of art_!   Has an emulated DEQNA so you can place the
	"PDP-11" on a LAN, the timeskew problem has been fixed (the emulated
	pdp-11 keeps good time), and it also has a TOY clock now.

	Check out http://www.begemot.org

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

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From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Fri May 26 18:54:02 2000
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 10:54:02 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <20000525214417.A58091@dragon.nuxi.com>
Message-ID: <200005260854.KAA08172@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 25 May, David O'Brien wrote:

> On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:33:51AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote:
>> In article by Mike W.:
>> > I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
>> > hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,
> 
> The port-vax at netbsd.org list is full of very VAX clueful people.
Yes. port-vax is the right audience. (I am part of it. ;-)  )

There is an excellent site with information about VAX hardware. 
http://www.vaxarchive.org/hw/index.html
mirror at
http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/hw/index.html

There you can find a link to the KA630/MicroVAX II page
http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr/ka630.html
This will answer most of your questions. 

If you want a modern Unix OS look at www.netbsd.org.
Or look at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ (Hi Michael :-) )
-- 



tschüß,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/


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From joerg at begemot.org  Fri May 26 19:22:21 2000
From: joerg at begemot.org (Joerg B. Micheel)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 21:22:21 +1200
Subject: Begemot emulator and Harti
Message-ID: <20000526212221.A4801@begemot.org>

Just as a side note: if you think Harti's Emulator is a useful
piece of software: sent him flowers. He's celebrating wedding
this morning in Berlin, marrying a friendly young lady from
Sibiria, Russia, her name is Larissa.

Regards,
	Joerg
-- 
Joerg B. Micheel			Email: <joerg at begemot.org>
Begemot Computer Associates		Phone: +64 7 8562148
40 Masters Avenue, Hillcrest		Fax:   +64 7 8562148
Hamilton, New Zealand			Pager: +64 868 38222

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From jasomill at shaffstall.com  Sat May 27 00:04:37 2000
From: jasomill at shaffstall.com (Jason T. Miller)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:04:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hello and thanks!
In-Reply-To: <200005260320.UAA27315@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10005260850030.31892-100000@guildenstern.shaffstall.com>

Well, I keep calling the hardware support folks, and it keeps ringing
busy. Of course, since I don't have call waiting or voice mail, that is to
be expected :) I've actually thought about trying to acquire an
MSCP<->SCSI card and using one of the SCSI drives I have lying around, but
the 19" rackmount stuff is too cool (unfortunately, my spares cabinet is
full of dirty laundry and ruined CD-R media at the moment), though I
suppose an RA92 would suffice (anybody got one? :) though my budget is
henceforth nonexistant -- $300 wouldn't break the bank, because they
wouldn't give it to me. Don't know about the RQDX3, either, but more
likely the KDA50 (which drives my RA81 -- the RQDX3 is for RXen, no more).

The '81 was up all last night, so I don't have error numbers yet; I'll try
to repeat the RX50 problem sometime this weekend. The only FS, I have, is
yours, though I've started reading through it. Though the SCSI spec is
thousands of pages long, it's pretty easy to program; I just finished some
raw-tape-read routines for Hewlett-Packard CS/80 tape drives, that was
even simpler. In both cases, however, I do have documentation
(exhaustive documentation in re: SCSI -- again, work related). I take it
from your reply that such docs aren't to be had for MSCP? At any price?

Jason T. Miller
jasomill at shaffstall.com

On Thu, 25 May 2000, Steven M. Schultz wrote:

> Hi -
> 
> > From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill at shaffstall.com>
> > After about a week of work (mainly due to a dying RA81 ... see below), I
> > have successfully installed 2.11BSD on my 11/83. First and foremost,
> > thanks to a) Steven M. Shultz for so carefully maintaining and updating
> > (!) CSRG's PDP-11 code to work with hardware such as my MSCP drives and
> > TMSCP TK50 and b) everyone involved in prodding SCO to release free
> 
> 	You're welcome!  I can't take all of the credit (or blame depending
> 	how you look at it) for the MSCP driver - that came about in 2.10
> 	just before I became heavily involved.   Changes/rewrites/whatever
> 	are my fault though ;)   The TMSCP driver for 2BSD is my doing (based
> 	on a *heavily* mauled version of the 4.3BSD one with some Ultrix
> 	influences).
> 
> > The only problems I've been having seem to be coming from disk controllers
> > without media. More specifically, I get a hard error, followed by an
> > endless loop of error indications if I try to access one of my RX50s (on
> > an RQDX3 controller), and the only recourse is a reset. Okay, so the
> 
> 	Hmmm, that's a new one to me.  I used to have RX50s but they were
> 	so d$&$*&^!d flakey that I put a standard "pc" 5.25" floppy on 
> 	instead (TEAC something or other).  I didn't do the hardware stuff,
> 	Terry Kennedy did that.  Details on jumper setting to use a 5.25"
> 	floppy in place of RX50s are floating around somewhere on the net
> 	but I don't have the reference handy.
> 
> 	Can't say I've had a problem with the floppy drive with no media.
> 	It spins and eventually spits out an error but nothing bad happens
> 	to the system.
> 
> 	Hmmmm, what rev level of 2.11BSD do you have installed?  The latest
> 	from the PUPS archive (or at least fairly recent)?   
> 
> > solution here is simple: don't do it. The bigger problem comes with my
> > flake-job of an RA81, which, FWIW, is the only fixed disk storage I have.
> > It has a strange habit: the "A" light goes off and the controller can no
> 
> 	Been there, seen that - on 11/44s with UDA50 controllers.  When that
> 	happened I picked up the phone and got the hardware support folks to
> 	get me a new RA81 ;)   After a while they got tired of maintaining
> 	old hardware and when the RA81 died the last time they just turned off
> 	the system and later sold it for scrap (instead of spending $300 for 
> 	a RA92 drive).  Boo hiss.
> 
> 	RA81s have been the worst drive I've seen for failures - it should
> 	be fairly cheap to get a RA92 (8" desktop enclosure if I recall 
> 	right) to replace the RA81.  Does the RQDX3 support the larger 
> 	drives though I wonder?
> 
> > the same loop-of-errors syndrome as an empty RX50. Anyone have any
> > pointers or sage advice? I figured I may try to modify the MSCP driver to
> > re-init the controller on a hard error, and try again. But the MSCP code
> > is fairly complicated, and I know nothing of the protocol. Anyone have any
> 
> 	You're not just whistling Dixie there - it's the most complex 
> 	convoluted protocol I've seen for handling disks (and tapes).  Well,
> 	SCSI these days might be just as complex - but there's a difference:
> 	I can get lots better specs and documentation for SCSI than I can for 
> 	MSCP.  If you've access to other systems (RSX, IAS, etc) sources you 
> 	can RTFS (Read The Fine Source) and try to puzzle out how MSCP works 
> 	what the errors are and what to do about them but that's a far
> 	cry from a complete, detailed, tabular, whatever document on how to
> 	write a MSCP driver.
> 
> > MSCP documentation which I could beg, borrow, or steal? I'd give the
> > specific error codes, but I haven't written any down yet and I'm at work.
> 
> 	I know I did do some work (mostly in the TMSCP part though) to improve
> 	error handling and not leave drives stranded and the like.   If you
> 	can jot down the error codes I can take a look at the driver and
> 	perhaps see what can be done to recover more gracefully.
> 
> 	Cheers!
> 
> 	Steven Schultz
> 	sms at moe.2bsd.com
> 


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From leypold at informatik.uni-tuebingen.de  Sat May 27 00:40:23 2000
From: leypold at informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Markus Leypold)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:40:23 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Building a 2.11BSD tape for Supnik's emulator
Message-ID: <200005261440.QAA12383@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>



Hello Seth,

I never worked with a real PDP-11. I tried to build a V7 Boot tape for 
the Supnick and still did not succeed, but I got the following impressions:

 * V7 Doc says, You can't use the bootstrap from the DEC bulk ROM,
   but need to key in a custom bootstrap. Have a look into
   the V7 Manual Volume 2B (Essay about Installing UNIX).

 * It seems, a tape also needs to contain labels for the files
   (512 Byte Records), kind of directory.


Regards -- Markus



Original Message:
---------------------------------
Hello folks,

I'm trying to build a 2.11BSD boot tape for Bob Supnik's emulator.  I
downloaded the tape files from Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD, and put them
together with the following commands (on Linux):

  cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd of=file0 obs=512
  dd if=disklabel of=file1 obs=1024
  dd if=mkfs of=file2 obs=1024
  dd if=restor of=file3 obs=1024
  dd if=icheck of=file4 obs=1024
  dd if=root.dump of=file5 obs=10240
  dd if=file6.tar of=file6 obs=10240
  dd if=file7.tar of=file7 obs=10240
  dd if=file8.tar of=file8 obs=10240
  cat file? > boot.tape  [I've verified the shell expands this
                          expression to the correct file order]

But when I run the simulator and try to boot from the tape (with or
without the -o optiont to 'boot'), it fails, like so:

  % pdp11

  PDP-11 simulator V2.3d
  sim> set cpu 18b
  sim> set cpu 2048K
  sim> att tm0 boot.tape
  sim> boot tm0

  HALT instruction, PC: 000002 (HALT)
  sim> boot -o tm0

  HALT instruction, PC: 000002 (HALT)
  sim>

It's like the bootstrap code isn't working.  Or possibly I've completely
misunderstood the proper way to build a tape image.  Is there a better
way to go about it?

- -Seth

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From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Sat May 27 02:26:28 2000
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:26:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Building a 2.11BSD tape for Supnik's emulator
Message-ID: <200005261626.JAA08996@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: Markus Leypold <leypold at informatik.uni-tuebingen.de>
> I never worked with a real PDP-11. I tried to build a V7 Boot tape for 
> the Supnick and still did not succeed, but I got the following impressions:
> 
>  * It seems, a tape also needs to contain labels for the files
>    (512 Byte Records), kind of directory.

	Not exactly.  The boot tape consists of files with different block
	sizes but has no "labels".  
> Original Message:
> ---------------------------------
> I'm trying to build a 2.11BSD boot tape for Bob Supnik's emulator.  I
> downloaded the tape files from Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD, and put them
> together with the following commands (on Linux):
> 
>   cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd of=file0 obs=512
>   dd if=disklabel of=file1 obs=1024
>   dd if=mkfs of=file2 obs=1024
>   dd if=restor of=file3 obs=1024
>   dd if=icheck of=file4 obs=1024
>   dd if=root.dump of=file5 obs=10240
>   dd if=file6.tar of=file6 obs=10240
>   dd if=file7.tar of=file7 obs=10240
>   dd if=file8.tar of=file8 obs=10240
>   cat file? > boot.tape  [I've verified the shell expands this
>                           expression to the correct file order]

	So close yet so far.

	You do not need to "reblock" the files - they already have the correct
	sizes.  What you do need to do is run a program to add the record
	length information for the emulator.  The emulator needs to have
	"virtual" file and record mark information added.

	If you look in the "usr/src/sys/pdpstand" directory you will find
	a source file "makesimtape.c".  This is a slightly modified version
	of the 'maketape' program which 2.11 uses to create its own boot tapes.
	The modifications consist of changes to add the virtual tape marks
	for Bob's emulator.

	I will include a copy of makesimtape.c below in case anyone has trouble
	finding it in the source tree.

	makesimtape should compile on almost anything (I've used it on
	2.11BSD, BSD/OS, and I think FreeBSD).  Compile that program.  Then
	create a small file (maketape.data) containing:

mtboot 1
mtboot 1
boot 1
* 1
disklabel 2
* 1
mkfs 2
* 1
restor 2
* 1
icheck 2
* 1
root.dump 20
* 1
file6.tar 20
* 1
file7.tar 20
* 1
file8.tar 20
*1

	Then "makesimtape -i maketape.data -o your_tape_file" will create
	the virtual tape file in 'your_tape_file'.

	Actually to make sure things work (and the tape is bootable and can
	run the standalone programs) all you need are the files up thru
	root.dump - that is enough to load the root filesystem.  


	With a real tape drive you use the "maketape" program that comes
	with 2.11 of course since it wants to issue ioctl calls to place
	real tape marks, etc on a tape.

> It's like the bootstrap code isn't working.  Or possibly I've completely
> misunderstood the proper way to build a tape image.  Is there a better
> way to go about it?

	
	Hopefully the method described above will be closer to what's
	needed.  it has been quite a while since I've actually created a
	simulated tape so I might have left out a step or something.

	Good Luck!

	Steven Schultz
	sms at moe.2bsd.com

=====================makesimtape.c=========================
/*
 *	@(#)makesimtape.c	2.1 (2.11BSD) 1998/12/31
 *		Hacked 'maketape.c' to write a file in a format suitable for
 *		use with Bob Supnik's PDP-11 simulator (V2.3) emulated tape 
 *		driver.
 *
 * 	NOTE: a PDP-11 has to flip the shorts within the long when writing out
 *	      the record size.  Seems a PDP-11 is neither a little-endian
 *	      machine nor a big-endian one.
 */

#include <stdio.h>
#include <errno.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/stat.h>
#include <sys/uio.h>

#define MAXB 30

	char	buf[MAXB * 512];
	char	name[50];
	long	recsz, flipped, trl();
	int	blksz;
	int	mt, fd, cnt;
	struct	iovec	iovec[3];
	struct	iovec	tmark[2];
	void	usage();

main(argc, argv)
	int argc;
	char *argv[];
	{
	int i, j = 0, k = 0;
	long zero = 0;
	register char	*outfile = NULL, *infile = NULL;
	FILE *mf;
	struct	stat	st;

	while	((i = getopt(argc, argv, "i:o:")) != EOF)
		{
		switch	(i)
			{
			case	'o':
				outfile = optarg;
				break;
			case	'i':
				infile = optarg;
				break;
			default:
				usage();
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		}
	if	(!outfile || !infile)
		usage();
		/* NOTREACHED */
/*
 * Stat the outfile and make sure it either 1) Does not exist, or
 * 2) Exists but is a regular file.
*/
	if	(stat(outfile, &st) != -1 && !(S_ISREG(st.st_mode)))
		errx(1, "outfile must either not exist or be a regular file");
		/* NOTREACHED */

	mt = open(outfile, O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC, 0600);
	if	(mt < 0)
		err(1, "Can not create %s", outfile);
		/* NOTREACHED */

	mf = fopen(infile, "r");
	if	(!mf)
		err(1, "Can not open %s", infile);
		/* NOTREACHED*/

	tmark[0].iov_len = sizeof (long);
	tmark[0].iov_base = (char *)&zero;

	while	(1)
		{
		if	((i = fscanf(mf, "%s %d", name, &blksz))== EOF)
			exit(0);
		if	(i != 2) {
			fprintf(stderr,"Help! Scanf didn't read 2 things (%d)\n", i);
			exit(1);
			}
		if	(blksz <= 0 || blksz > MAXB)
			{
			fprintf(stderr, "Block size %u is invalid\n", blksz);
			exit(1);
			}
		recsz = blksz * 512;	/* convert to bytes */
		iovec[0].iov_len = sizeof (recsz);
#ifdef	pdp11
		iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&flipped;
#else
		iovec[0].iov_base = (char *)&recsz;
#endif
		iovec[1].iov_len = (int)recsz;
		iovec[1].iov_base = buf;
		iovec[2].iov_len =  iovec[0].iov_len;
		iovec[2].iov_base = iovec[0].iov_base;

		if	(strcmp(name, "*") == 0)
			{
			if	(writev(mt, tmark, 1) < 0)
				warn(1, "writev of pseudo tapemark failed");
			k++;
			continue;
			}
		fd = open(name, 0);
		if	(fd < 0)
			err(1, "Can't open %s for reading", name);
			/* NOTREACHED */
		printf("%s: block %d, file %d\n", name, j, k);

		/*
		 * we pad the last record with nulls
		 * (instead of the bell std. of padding with trash).
		 * this allows you to access text files on the
		 * tape without garbage at the end of the file.
		 * (note that there is no record length associated
		 *  with tape files)
		 */

		while	((cnt=read(fd, buf, (int)recsz)) == (int)recsz)
			{
			j++;
#ifdef	pdp11
			flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
			if	(writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
				err(1, "writev #1");
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		if	(cnt > 0)
			{
			j++;
			bzero(buf + cnt, (int)recsz - cnt);
#ifdef	pdp11
			flipped = trl(recsz);
#endif
			if	(writev(mt, iovec, 3) < 0)
				err(1, "writev #2");
				/* NOTREACHED */
			}
		close(fd);
		}
/*
 * Write two tape marks to simulate EOT
*/
	writev(mt, tmark, 1);
	writev(mt, tmark, 1);
	}

long
trl(l)
	long	l;
	{
	union	{
		long	l;
		short	s[2];
		} foo;
	register short	x;

	foo.l = l;
	x = foo.s[0];
	foo.s[0] = foo.s[1];
	foo.s[1] = x;
	return(foo.l);
	}

void
usage()
	{
	fprintf(stderr, "usage: makesimtape -o outfilefile -i inputfile\n");
	exit(1);
	}


From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Sat May 27 06:42:58 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Fri, 26 May 00 15:42:58 CDT
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
Message-ID: <0005262042.AA18959@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

In article by Mike W.:

> I have a digital microvax II in a 'world case'. I was wondering how to
> hook it up and make it fly. I was told that it runs the Micro VMS OS,
> but no to get get it on the machine, Model: one of two: VS12W-B2 or
> V512W-B2. It is an old sticker, could be a 5 or an S. A tape drive is
> installed, but no tape disk came with it. Is there another OS it can
> run?

Yes, it will run UNIX, the timesharing system by Ritchie and Thompson, Berkeley
VAX version thereof, the current version of which is 4.3BSD-Quasijarus
maintained by me, the WWW page for which is:

http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/

Running UNIX requires a UNIX source license (True UNIX never had, doesn't have,
and never will have a concept of "binary only"), but these days SCO gives them
out for FREE! You have a tape drive, so you will have no problem with
installation. I have supply you with the boot tape, but you'll have to
reimburse me for the tape and shipping.

> How do I hook up the Console to work on it. For that matter, what does
> the console look like?

You need a standard RS-232 terminal. The console port connector on the MicroVAX
is of a rather odd standard, though. A DEC BCC05 or BCC08 cable will connect it
to a standard RS-232 DB25M terminal. If you want or have to make your own
cable, I've got the pinout for the MicroVAX console port connector somewhere.

> [...] nothing on 'where  and
> how the cables go on the back (bulkhead).

The I/O distribution panel on the back provides external connections for all
Q-bus modules you have. You'll have to tell us what Q-bus modules you have so
that we can tell you what external connections they need. You obviously have
the CPU, which has one external connection: the console port which I just told
you about.

> I need to know how, why and
> when to turn the knobs on the back.

On the CPU module bulkhead there are two knobs and one switch. One knob selects
the console port baud rate. I think this one is obvious. You can use any of the
baud rates printed around the knob, but 9600 baud is standard. The other knob
selects between normal operation (the arrow icon), console language selection
(the talking face icon), and console port loopback test (the T in the circle
icon). I always leave it on the arrow icon. Finally, the switch selects between
maintenance mode (halt enabled, stay in the console on power-up) and production
mode (halt disabled, boot the OS on power-up). These correspond to the dot-
inside-the-circle and dot-outside-the-circle icons, respectively. For now leave
the dot inside the circle.

For more info subscribe to the Quasijarus mailing list and ask there. Send
subscription requests to:

quasijarus-request at ivan.Harhan.ORG

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Sat May 27 06:44:45 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Fri, 26 May 00 15:44:45 CDT
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
Message-ID: <0005262044.AA18967@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

David O'Brien <obrien at NUXI.com> wrote:

> The port-vax at netbsd.org list is full of very VAX clueful people.

So is quasijarus at ivan.Harhan.ORG.

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG  Sat May 27 06:51:29 2000
From: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Fri, 26 May 00 15:51:29 CDT
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
Message-ID: <0005262051.AA18987@ivan.Harhan.ORG>

jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:

> If you want a modern Unix OS [...]

If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee sea
hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like I do) would
surely feel the same way about software (again like I do). Why should one treat
hardware and software differently in this respect? Why mix-and-match the
wonderful classical hardware with crappy bloated "modern" software?

--
Michael Sokolov		Harhan Engineering Laboratory
Public Service Agent	International Free Computing Task Force
			International Engineering and Science Task Force
			615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4
			DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA

Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office)
E-mail: msokolov at ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

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From bdc at world.std.com  Sat May 27 08:21:49 2000
From: bdc at world.std.com (Brian Chase)
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:21:49 -0700
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <0005262051.AA18987@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0005261515050.22157-100000@world.std.com>

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Michael Sokolov wrote:

> jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote:
> > If you want a modern Unix OS [...]
> 
> If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee
> sea hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like
> I do) would surely feel the same way about software (again like I do).
> Why should one treat hardware and software differently in this
> respect? Why mix-and-match the wonderful classical hardware with
> crappy bloated "modern" software?

This list is definitely geared towards people running classic OSes on
classic systems.  I actually really enjoy having lots of the bloated
modern hardware running on my VAXen.  So much contemporary software
compiles and runs right out of the tarballs under NetBSD/vax.  And
honestly, a lot of it performs quite admirably on even my humblest of
MicroVAX II's.

I see nothing incompatible with loving modern OSes running well on ancient
hardware. :-)

-brian.
--- Brian Chase | bdc at world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ -----
All math equations have a fistfight on at least one side.  -- K.


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From jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de  Sun May 28 01:49:00 2000
From: jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de (jkunz at unixag-kl.fh-kl.de)
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 17:49:00 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Dead MicroVAX II :(
In-Reply-To: <0005262051.AA18987@ivan.Harhan.ORG>
Message-ID: <200005271549.RAA15426@unixag-kl.fh-kl.de>

On 27 May, Michael Sokolov wrote:

>> If you want a modern Unix OS [...]
> 
> If he did, why would he want a VAX? Someone who detests "modern" pee sea
> hardware and prefers the vastly superior classical DEC stuff (like I do) would
> surely feel the same way about software (again like I do). Why should one treat
> hardware and software differently in this respect? Why mix-and-match the
> wonderful classical hardware with crappy bloated "modern" software?
Sure. That is the reason why I referred both the quasijarus project and
NetBSD. I wanted to give _him_ the choice. 

I own a lot of different old machines. (DEC, Sun, HP, IBM, ...) On most
of this machins runs the same OS, NetBSD. I like it to see the same
software running on an old VAX and on a state of the art Alpha. I am
usung NetBSD for years now, so my preference of NetBSD is historical
too. 
-- 



tschüß,
         Jochen

Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/



