From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jul 14 02:54:50 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:54:50 -0400
Subject: [pups] LSI-11? And different versions of E-11
Message-ID: <003a01c34822$d15fa4a0$239efea9@who5>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Here's a question. Does anyone on this list, know where I could obtain
an LSI-11? Or even a Heathkit, H-11? 

And the other question, is: Has anyone gotten the different versions
of E-11 to boot the operating systems that are available on the file
server? These are versions that are stored on the file server itself.
Older then 3.1 is what I am thinking of. 

For my first question, please reply directly to me. That is, only
positive ones.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."Â  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )






From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Tue Jul 15 01:18:03 2003
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:18:03 +0200
Subject: [pups] PDP-11 hardware & software usage poll
Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DFEE@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>

Hi All,

For those of you who don't follow alt.sys.pdp11: I set up
a simple web page to start an inventory poll on the number
and types of PDP-11 systems used by hobbyists, the operating
systems in use on them, and what, if any, licenses are being
used for those systems.

All this has to do with the whole Mentec not having a license
program for the PDP-11 R* operaing systems (RT, RSX and RSTS).

After some discussion with Mentec, the site was set up to do
the gathering of numbers so we can convince their Management
that there are many systems in hobby use, and that there's
enough people willing to aquire such a license.

Please check out

        http://www.pdp11.nl/poll.htm

and do your magic.  None of the information provided will be
transferred to anyone- only the summarized info will be made
available in a report to Mentec - a copy of which you can
request by requesting the 'feedbeck' stuff in the poll.

Thanks, and spread the word !

Fred

From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Wed Jul 16 21:46:36 2003
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:46:36 +1200
Subject: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone?
Message-ID: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>

I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and 
CP/X86
http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html

Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence?

Wesley Parish
-- 
Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

From cube1 at charter.net  Thu Jul 17 01:00:36 2003
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:00:36 -0500
Subject: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030716095946.03e311a8@cirithi>

I imagine it was the 3270 PC Control Program.  It came with every 3270 PC 
and 3270 PC/AT.  I had never heard it called by those names before.

Jay Jaeger

At 11:46 PM 7/16/2003 +1200, Wesley Parish wrote:
>I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and
>CP/X86
>http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html
>
>Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence?
>
>Wesley Parish
>--
>Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
>You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
>Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
>I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

---	
Jay R. Jaeger					The Computer Collection
cube1 at charter.net



From wkt at tuhs.org  Thu Jul 17 10:14:07 2003
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:07 +1000
Subject: [pups] Uploading things into the Unix Archive
Message-ID: <20030717001407.GA25399@minnie.tuhs.org>

Hi all,
	I see I've built up a long list of e-mails from people who have
stuff to donate to the Unix Archive. There is now an FTP upload area on
the machine: ftp to minnie.tuhs.org, cd to incoming.

If you do upload anything called XXX, please also include a README.XXX file
so I know what it is, where it came from and other useful information.

If you have material that cannot be publicly released at present, but
would like it archived for safety reasons, simply use random file names,
and tell me the correct names in the README file. I will squirrel these
things away for later.

The area is set to allow uploads and to see the directory contents. No
downloads are possible.

Thanks all!
	Warren

From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com  Wed Jul  2 08:16:27 2003
From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas)
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 18:16:27 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] V7/8086 I'm a bit behind the times here, but...
Message-ID: <CC6E949C87F45324BAF7BC430FFEE40E@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>

I already had some ideas, and when I saw something called "v7upgrade", a weird thought came to my head...

I'm wondering if any gurus out there would be able to point me in the general direction, as far as getting V7 stuff running on an 8086, 
perhaps a full V7 system.  Something like v7upgrade but including a kernel and bootloader.  I don't know.  Just musing...

My only experience with a "real" UNIX is either SunOS via telnet or PicoBSD.  I use RH8 Linux, FreeDOS ODIN 0.31 and Win98SE at 
home.  It would be interesting to play with V7 on one of my computers. :)

BTW I do have v7upgrade running on my Linux box - sweet! :}

-uso.

kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito
___________________________________________________________
Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au  Wed Jul  2 08:19:34 2003
From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy)
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:19:34 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] V7/8086 I'm a bit behind the times here, but...
In-Reply-To: <CC6E949C87F45324BAF7BC430FFEE40E@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>
References: <CC6E949C87F45324BAF7BC430FFEE40E@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>
Message-ID: <20030701221934.GM430@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>

On 2003-Jul-01 18:16:27 -0400, Steve Nickolas <usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com> wrote:
>I already had some ideas, and when I saw something called "v7upgrade", a weird thought came to my head...
>
>I'm wondering if any gurus out there would be able to point me in the
>general direction, as far as getting V7 stuff running on an 8086,
>perhaps a full V7 system.  Something like v7upgrade but including a
>kernel and bootloader.  I don't know.  Just musing...

I've also been considering this in the background ever since "ancient"
Unix became available.  At least one other person has posted that they
did actually do a suitable port.

Downsides:
- 8086 has no hardware protection.  You'd need to go to the 80286 to
  get any inter-process protection.
- 80x86 16-bit memory management is far more primitive than the PDP-11.
  Given the requirement for data and stack addresses to be in the same
  address space (assumed by virtually all C programs), the total data+
  heap+stack space required for a process must be pre-allocated and
  there is no protection between heap and stack.

The main reason I've never proceeded is the lack of a suitable C
compiler: 16-bit 80x86, open source, able to run in 64K I+D mode, and
generating half-way decent code.  (Without the last requirement, the
kernel and some of the larger userland utilities will probably be too
large).

Supporting overlays would add the requirement to handle mixed-mode
code, support segment overrides and 'far' objects.

Peter

From wkt at tuhs.org  Fri Jul  4 11:19:00 2003
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:19:00 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Unix Archive
In-Reply-To: <BAY8-F100RPFGt1A9my000322ea@hotmail.com>
References: <BAY8-F100RPFGt1A9my000322ea@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20030704011900.GA50662@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 04:36:02PM -0400, Latisha Vernon wrote:
> I would like to obtain a CD of the pups archive of UNIX. I have tried to 
> access the link provided by the pups website, but was told the site no 
> longer existed. If possible, please provide information on how I might 
> obtain the CD.

I'll forward this to the mailing list; perhaps someone there might help
you. Can you tell us where you live?

	Warren

From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com  Tue Jul  8 15:21:36 2003
From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 01:21:36 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] v6on286
Message-ID: <D1A0AB08F3098B446877CCCA3BAEB14D@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>

I was finally able to download a good copy of v6on286 from minnie...

I have Borland C++ 3.1, the existing version was built with 3.0. 
There are no binaries in the v6on286 package for the Unix itself,
AFAICT, but I did get a successful MAKE.

This is the weird thing, and I'm not sure if it's pilot error, the
fact I'm running Windoze, or a glitch in the code.

C:\UNIX>un

Screen goes blank except for a block flashing cursor.  The keyboard
does not respond - not even the lights - indicating that the machine
is either in a PM loop or completely hung.

Has anyone had better luck than me?

Or have I had better luck than everyone else (author excluded)?

Thx.

BTW...I wonder, could some old C compiler be bootstrapped on v6on286
and then V7 ported on it?

-uso.

kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito
___________________________________________________________
Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

From macbiesz at optonline.net  Wed Jul  9 01:07:48 2003
From: macbiesz at optonline.net (Maciek Bieszczad)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:07:48 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] v6on286
In-Reply-To: <D1A0AB08F3098B446877CCCA3BAEB14D@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>
Message-ID: <000001c34562$b2122130$06fea8c0@maciek>

This might help:

http://nibbly.york.ac.uk/mirrors/TUHS/Other/V6on286/README

(I'm not sure why it was removed from TUHS)

--
Maciek (macbiesz at optonline.net)

-----Original Message-----
From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org]
On Behalf Of Steve Nickolas
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:22 AM
To: tuhs at tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] v6on286

I was finally able to download a good copy of v6on286 from minnie...

I have Borland C++ 3.1, the existing version was built with 3.0. 
There are no binaries in the v6on286 package for the Unix itself,
AFAICT, but I did get a successful MAKE.

This is the weird thing, and I'm not sure if it's pilot error, the
fact I'm running Windoze, or a glitch in the code.

C:\UNIX>un

Screen goes blank except for a block flashing cursor.  The keyboard
does not respond - not even the lights - indicating that the machine
is either in a PM loop or completely hung.

Has anyone had better luck than me?

Or have I had better luck than everyone else (author excluded)?

Thx.

BTW...I wonder, could some old C compiler be bootstrapped on v6on286
and then V7 ported on it?

-uso.

kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito
___________________________________________________________
Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From jwillis at coherent-logic.com  Wed Jul  9 01:31:08 2003
From: jwillis at coherent-logic.com (John P. Willis)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:31:08 GMT
Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption
Message-ID: <20030708153108.22255.qmail@klaatu.zianet.com>


Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here...

What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data
has no pattern, and one character of encrypted data may stand for many
different characters when decrypted?

From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com  Wed Jul  9 02:08:37 2003
From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 12:08:37 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] v6on286
Message-ID: <973AA9883D41F48458B58EAD4B7162D2@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>

>From: Maciek Bieszczad <macbiesz at optonline.net>
>Sent: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 11:07:48 -0400
>To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
>Subject: RE: [TUHS] v6on286

>This might help:

>http://nibbly.york.ac.uk/mirrors/TUHS/Other/V6on286/README

>(I'm not sure why it was removed from TUHS)

I did read it.  (Hence, my knowledge to use BC3) :)

I was aware of the / bug and didn't even make it that far.  I was
hoping (still am) that someone did build it and make it that far.

-uso.

kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito
___________________________________________________________
Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

From list-tuhs at cosmic.com  Wed Jul  9 02:29:59 2003
From: list-tuhs at cosmic.com (list-tuhs at cosmic.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:29:59 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption
References: <20030708153108.22255.qmail@klaatu.zianet.com>
Message-ID: <slrnbglsc7.pps.mirian@trantor.cosmic.com>

On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:31:08 GMT, John P. Willis <jwillis at coherent-logic.com> wrote:
>
>Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here...
>What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data
>has no pattern,

Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad.  Generate a
completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each
successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext.
The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with
an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same
method of course).

> and one character of encrypted data may stand for many
>different characters when decrypted?

Assuming you mean "one character of encrypted data might represent any
one of several different characters of plaintext" (not "one
character's worth of encrypted data represents multiple characters
worth of plaintext), this is indeed the effect of a one-time pad.
Just don't ever reuse that key; promptly destroy both copies after
use.

--Mirian

From president at coherent-logic.com  Wed Jul  9 03:35:24 2003
From: president at coherent-logic.com (Joel Martinez)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:35:24 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption
References: <20030708153108.22255.qmail@klaatu.zianet.com>
	<slrnbglsc7.pps.mirian@trantor.cosmic.com>
Message-ID: <00be01c34577$503521f0$d2c0ead8@zianet.com>

Is it possible to do this with a fixed length key?

> Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad.  Generate a
> completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each
> successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext.
> The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with
> an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same
> method of course).
>
> --Mirian
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> 

From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Wed Jul  9 04:04:42 2003
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption
Message-ID: <200307081804.h68I4gZ13805@opihi.ucsd.edu>

> X-From: mirian at trantor.cosmic.com (Mirian Crzig Lennox)
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption
> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 16:29:59 +0000 (UTC)
> 
> On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 15:31:08 GMT, John P. Willis <jwillis at coherent-logic.com> wrote:
> >
> >Just curious to hear the opinions of the many wise people here...
> >What is the likelihood of an encryption system in which the resulting data
> >has no pattern,
> 
> Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad.  Generate a
> completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each
> successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext.
> The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with
> an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same
> method of course).
> 
> > and one character of encrypted data may stand for many
> >different characters when decrypted?
> 
> Assuming you mean "one character of encrypted data might represent any
> one of several different characters of plaintext" (not "one
> character's worth of encrypted data represents multiple characters
> worth of plaintext), this is indeed the effect of a one-time pad.
> Just don't ever reuse that key; promptly destroy both copies after
> use.
> 
> --Mirian

This is hardly the place for a long discussion on such topics, but
one might want to look at the FAQ for the net news group sci.crypt.

    carl
-- 
    carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                 clowenst at ucsd.edu

From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Wed Jul  9 04:22:13 2003
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption
Message-ID: <200307081822.h68IMDS13834@opihi.ucsd.edu>

> From: "Joel Martinez" <president at coherent-logic.com>
> To: <tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] OT: Patternless Encryption
> Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:35:24 -0600
> 
> Is it possible to do this with a fixed length key?
> 
> > Such a thing exists, it is called a one-time pad.  Generate a
> > completely random key as long as the plaintext, and then XOR each
> > successive bit of the key with the corresponding bit of the plaintext.
> > The result is indistinguishable from random noise; only someone with
> > an identical copy of the key can decrypt it (using precisely the same
> > method of course).

For various degrees of security, depending on the length of the key.
Keys are not used directly for encryption, but are used to generate
cryptographically secure pseudo-random sequences.  

As a starting point, look at
    < http://www.mindspring.com/~schlafly/crypto/faq.htm >

    carl
-- 
    carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                 clowenst at ucsd.edu

From macbiesz at optonline.net  Wed Jul  9 12:34:51 2003
From: macbiesz at optonline.net (Maciek Bieszczad)
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2003 22:34:51 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] v6on286
In-Reply-To: <20030709002523.GA7146@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <000001c345c2$ad14f670$06fea8c0@maciek>

Ah, silly of me. If I used FTP, that could have saved a couple wasted
hours compiling v6on286 :)

--
Maciek (macbiesz at optonline.net)

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt at tuhs.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:25 PM
To: Maciek Bieszczad
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v6on286

?! It's still here at ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/Other/V6on286/
but I'm not sure why Apache hides the README when the same directory
is viewed with http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/V6on286/, I'd better
check that out.

	Warren


From szigi at ik.bme.hu  Wed Jul  9 17:00:25 2003
From: szigi at ik.bme.hu (SZIGETI Szabolcs)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 09:00:25 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] v6on286
References: <D1A0AB08F3098B446877CCCA3BAEB14D@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>
Message-ID: <003201c345e7$c5e2c180$26f34298@ik.bme.hu>


> Screen goes blank except for a block flashing cursor.  The keyboard
> does not respond - not even the lights - indicating that the machine
> is either in a PM loop or completely hung.
>
> Has anyone had better luck than me?
>
> Or have I had better luck than everyone else (author excluded)?


Hi,

Sorry, I don't have the soruces with me right now, so I can't be exact, but
I'll check next week.

You need to have a root disk (floppy or hdd), with /etc/init and stuff.

To
do this, first compile unix with the "built in shell". Check te Makefile for
the #define! Also set the root device in the kernel (floppy or hdd).

Make a floppy or hdd (be careful with the sector numbers, mkfs works with
absolute sectors, so it's easy to overwrite another partition) with the dos
based mkfs. Start the kernel with built in shell. It should create /dev/tty
automatically, and then you can populate the rest of the /dev directory.

There is a tool (sorry, I don't remenber the names, but check the source) to
transfer files, via an ather floppy, which is a horrible kludge, first you
write one file on it using one of the utilities, then start the kernel, and
using one of the built in commands you write it into the filesystem. This
has to be done one-by-one.

You can exit the kernel via shift-escape (?), but do a sync before.
Once you have the root floppy, recompile the kernel without the shell.

Now about the bug: I think I broke something in the inode code (I once
wanted to rewrite the code in ansi c, and then lost the original), so
currently, it won't mount the root fs. With plenty of printf's in the kernel
it's possible to debug :-).

Regards,

    Szabolcs


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Wed Jul  9 19:06:34 2003
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (José R. Valverde)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:06:34 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Comparing Linux code
Message-ID: <20030709110634.68ceaad8.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

Pardon me for posting not being a subscriber, I already subscribe to too
many lists and I prefer to readd the archives at Minnie.

I've used the procedures described in

	http://www.rickbradley.com/chron/20030619/

to compare the code in Linux with the code of Solaris. There are a few
striking comments shared by .c files, some actually containing "jokes". 
However.

	Note that I'll NOT comment on anything I've seen in the Solaris
code. I'll only talk of my own experience and what LINUX/BSD code says.

Matches for [argh urg not set but urp changed a sensible implementation should n
ever do this but rfc793 doesnt prohibit the change so we have to deal with it]:
***SOLARIS SOURCE ID REMOVED***
./drivers/net/slhc.c

	Looks like the possible 'joke' shared code. Code inspection confirms.
	Linux code states that slhc code is (c) by BSD.
	4.4BSD-Lite contains the code in ./sys/net/slcompress.c
	The same code appears first in 4.3BSD in the same file.
	This is NOT therefore SUN/ATT/SCO code, so I guess I can safely comment 
on it.
	This looks like one of those infamous source files from BSD whose 
copyright comments where stripped before the BSD/ATT lawsuit. SCO might
preserve the original, pre-lawsuit ATT code (without the (c) notice) and 
_believe_ it to be theirs. Actually it makes sense in the UNIX sellout
turmoil after the lawsuit that the BSD copyrights were forgotten to be
merged back in the code.

	Should it be so, then perhaps SCO zealots did the so much aired
comparison UNIX/Linux but did not care to check their own source code 
against BSD, thus slipping on this one?

	There is another source file which _might_ be contaminated, but I
can't tell in which direction this might have happened. I won't venture
breaking confidentiality agreements, but this I believe I can say: I know 
from experinece this file has suffered extense enhancements during the '90s, 
most of which were done by independent developers for Suns. The LINUX comments 
identify the author as an independent developer of world fame in the area 
indicating the routines were originally developed for SUN and DEC, so if 
SCO has any claims it might only be by "license contamination" (i.e. any 
independent addition must belong to me no matter how indirect because I say 
so). Actually it might be that Sun and DEC added the changes contributed to
them and provided them back to the UNIX reference source. In that case, 
SCO will have a hard time to claim the code belongs to them and they are 
not stealing other people's contributed code.

	Furthermore, if they still claim it's theirs 'cos of license 
contamination, they will put a hard stress on UNIX vendors: in the '90s
some vendors survived mainly because of specialized market niches (e.g. MBONE
on Sun, graphics on SGI, etc..): everybody in some field would use the same 
system, users would contribute fixes to them, and this gave them an advantage. 
Now, if people see that contributing to any system will make them lose 
rights over their own code, in the future they won't tie themselves to any 
specific vendor, and vendors will lose the opportunity of taking advantage
of specialized user groups to increase their competitivity. Now, imagine
where would Sun be if they had never been able to differentiate themselves
as, say, the 'dot com' company during the Internet boom.

	Were I SCO I'd think twice before hampering licensees ability to
capitalize on market niche differentiations because of claims on independent,
free code developed by _their_ users.

	All this, assuming, of course, these are the files in dispute.

	So far, and assuming these are the files, it mostly looks like external
additions to SCO code that lost the original copyright references. It is
understandable that SCO modern engineers ignore what happened before the ATT/BSD
trial, or even ignore the original author of code reverted back by UNIX licensees,
and that ignoring who wrote what, they may believe it is all theirs.

	But, if these were the files, they'll have a hard time. First for not
checking correctly their claims (agains say, BSD code), second for not 
acknowledging nor keeping track of original authors of contributed code,
and finally for claiming ownership of code that does not belong to them.

	Other files share some odd small comment, often it looks like pure
chance, machine/vendor dependent code (probably not ATT/SCO therefore) or 
common sense, so I didn't investigate those any further.

				j

-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    JosÃ© R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com  Thu Jul 10 02:25:12 2003
From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas)
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 11:25:12 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] v6on286
Message-ID: <B7188237D5E93714FBC9EBACA1463010@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>

>From: Kenneth Stailey <kstailey at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 05:37:09 -0700 (PDT)
>To: Steve Nickolas <usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com>
>Subject: Re: RE: [TUHS] v6on286

>The README says:

><< The kernel makes heavy use of the special 286 protected mode 
>features >>

>Try bochs set to be a 286.

I figure that a Celeron is a superset of the 386 - ergo, of the 286
also - so there shouldn't be a problem.  Maybe I'll do that though,
it's safer in a sandbox.

>I am wondering if Cygwin could be used to build the code.  I see that
>ancient C stuff like "=+" was eliminated already.

!!

I think if you converted the ASM to some other format, you could use
Turbo C++ to build it, though...haven't tried that, I don't grok ASM.

>Plus check this site out:
>
>http://www.thefreecountry.com/compilers/cpp.shtml
LOL, I have 6 working C compilers on the Windows/DOS side of my box
already :) (Turbo C++ 1, Borland C++ 3, Watcom C 11, djgpp, MinGW32,
Cygwin)

-uso.

kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito
___________________________________________________________
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From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Thu Jul 10 18:45:35 2003
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:45:35 +1200
Subject: [TUHS] Comparing Linux code
In-Reply-To: <20030709110634.68ceaad8.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
References: <20030709110634.68ceaad8.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <200307102045.35194.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 21:06, Josï¿½R. Valverde wrote:
> Pardon me for posting not being a subscriber, I already subscribe to too
> many lists and I prefer to readd the archives at Minnie.
>
> I've used the procedures described in
>
> 	http://www.rickbradley.com/chron/20030619/
>
> to compare the code in Linux with the code of Solaris. There are a few
> striking comments shared by .c files, some actually containing "jokes".
> However.
>
> 	Note that I'll NOT comment on anything I've seen in the Solaris
> code. I'll only talk of my own experience and what LINUX/BSD code says.
>
> Matches for [argh urg not set but urp changed a sensible implementation
> should n ever do this but rfc793 doesnt prohibit the change so we have to
> deal with it]: ***SOLARIS SOURCE ID REMOVED***
> ./drivers/net/slhc.c
>
> 	Looks like the possible 'joke' shared code. Code inspection confirms.
> 	Linux code states that slhc code is (c) by BSD.
> 	4.4BSD-Lite contains the code in ./sys/net/slcompress.c
> 	The same code appears first in 4.3BSD in the same file.
> 	This is NOT therefore SUN/ATT/SCO code, so I guess I can safely comment
> on it.
> 	This looks like one of those infamous source files from BSD whose
> copyright comments where stripped before the BSD/ATT lawsuit. SCO might
> preserve the original, pre-lawsuit ATT code (without the (c) notice) and
> _believe_ it to be theirs. Actually it makes sense in the UNIX sellout
> turmoil after the lawsuit that the BSD copyrights were forgotten to be
> merged back in the code.
>
> 	Should it be so, then perhaps SCO zealots did the so much aired
> comparison UNIX/Linux but did not care to check their own source code
> against BSD, thus slipping on this one?

The term for that, in relation to something that clearly is a matter of 
peoples' reputations, business survivability, etc, is "due diligence".

>
> 	There is another source file which _might_ be contaminated, but I
> can't tell in which direction this might have happened. I won't venture
> breaking confidentiality agreements, but this I believe I can say: I know
> from experinece this file has suffered extense enhancements during the
> '90s, most of which were done by independent developers for Suns. The LINUX
> comments identify the author as an independent developer of world fame in
> the area indicating the routines were originally developed for SUN and DEC,
> so if SCO has any claims it might only be by "license contamination" (i.e.
> any independent addition must belong to me no matter how indirect because I
> say so). 

That is truly "viral licensing".  GPL at least has the grace and honesty to be 
up-front about it, and only if the binaries get published.  Real "viral 
licensing' acts much the way virii do - beneath the skin, out of sight.

Actually it might be that Sun and DEC added the changes
> contributed to them and provided them back to the UNIX reference source. In
> that case, SCO will have a hard time to claim the code belongs to them and
> they are not stealing other people's contributed code.

That is pretty much what I allege SCO is in fact doing.  By extending the 
meaning of "derived" to include practically anything, from just 
sniffing/looking at an AT&T letterhead to copying the whole kit and caboodle, 
they have rendered their contentions null and void, AFAIC.

>
> 	Furthermore, if they still claim it's theirs 'cos of license
> contamination, they will put a hard stress on UNIX vendors: in the '90s
> some vendors survived mainly because of specialized market niches (e.g.
> MBONE on Sun, graphics on SGI, etc..): everybody in some field would use
> the same system, users would contribute fixes to them, and this gave them
> an advantage. Now, if people see that contributing to any system will make
> them lose rights over their own code, in the future they won't tie
> themselves to any specific vendor, and vendors will lose the opportunity of
> taking advantage of specialized user groups to increase their
> competitivity. 

Which is the problem with MS's "Shared Source" - developers are staying away 
from it in droves, because nobody can do anything even remotely useful with 
the source code.

Now, imagine where would Sun be if they had never been able
> to differentiate themselves as, say, the 'dot com' company during the
> Internet boom.
>
> 	Were I SCO I'd think twice before hampering licensees ability to
> capitalize on market niche differentiations because of claims on
> independent, free code developed by _their_ users.
>
> 	All this, assuming, of course, these are the files in dispute.
>
> 	So far, and assuming these are the files, it mostly looks like external
> additions to SCO code that lost the original copyright references. It is
> understandable that SCO modern engineers ignore what happened before the
> ATT/BSD trial, or even ignore the original author of code reverted back by
> UNIX licensees, and that ignoring who wrote what, they may believe it is
> all theirs.

"Due diligence" of course.  You can take out an airline on that basis (Air New 
Zealand springs to mind), much less a little company like SCO's.  And "due 
diligence" is the more positive approach to it - a vengeful approach talks of 
"wilful deception", "fraudulent claims", "defamation of character", and 
suchlike.  "Lack of due diligence" is mild.

>
> 	But, if these were the files, they'll have a hard time. First for not
> checking correctly their claims (agains say, BSD code), second for not
> acknowledging nor keeping track of original authors of contributed code,
> and finally for claiming ownership of code that does not belong to them.
>
> 	Other files share some odd small comment, often it looks like pure
> chance, machine/vendor dependent code (probably not ATT/SCO therefore) or
> common sense, so I didn't investigate those any further.
>
> 				j
Wesley Parish
-- 
Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

From kstailey at yahoo.com  Fri Jul 11 12:28:33 2003
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:28:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] 
	Ransom Love's Speech that claims SCO will "Add Components" to Linux
	Kernel To Make It Scale 
Message-ID: <20030711022833.86624.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com>

http://radio.weblogs.com/0120124/2003/07/08.html



__________________________________
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From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Wed Jul 16 21:46:36 2003
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 23:46:36 +1200
Subject: [TUHS] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone?
Message-ID: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>

I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and 
CP/X86
http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html

Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence?

Wesley Parish
-- 
Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."

From cube1 at charter.net  Thu Jul 17 01:00:36 2003
From: cube1 at charter.net (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 10:00:36 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Re: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone?
In-Reply-To: <200307162346.36661.wes.parish@paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20030716095946.03e311a8@cirithi>

I imagine it was the 3270 PC Control Program.  It came with every 3270 PC 
and 3270 PC/AT.  I had never heard it called by those names before.

Jay Jaeger

At 11:46 PM 7/16/2003 +1200, Wesley Parish wrote:
>I've just come across mention of an I80x86 product of IBM's, called CP/88 and
>CP/X86
>http://www.stanford.edu/group/mmdd/SiliconValley/Ferguson/Chapter.5.html
>
>Anybody know anything more about it, and is it still extant, in existence?
>
>Wesley Parish
>--
>Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
>You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
>Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
>I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

---	
Jay R. Jaeger					The Computer Collection
cube1 at charter.net



From wkt at tuhs.org  Thu Jul 17 10:14:07 2003
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 10:14:07 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] Uploading things into the Unix Archive
Message-ID: <20030717001407.GA25399@minnie.tuhs.org>

Hi all,
	I see I've built up a long list of e-mails from people who have
stuff to donate to the Unix Archive. There is now an FTP upload area on
the machine: ftp to minnie.tuhs.org, cd to incoming.

If you do upload anything called XXX, please also include a README.XXX file
so I know what it is, where it came from and other useful information.

If you have material that cannot be publicly released at present, but
would like it archived for safety reasons, simply use random file names,
and tell me the correct names in the README file. I will squirrel these
things away for later.

The area is set to allow uploads and to see the directory contents. No
downloads are possible.

Thanks all!
	Warren

From usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com  Thu Jul 17 12:45:53 2003
From: usagi.tsukino at pinku.zzn.com (Steve Nickolas)
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 21:45:53 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Re: [pups] Prob OT, CP/88, CP/X86, anyone?
Message-ID: <97AFA44E795B91C42944A69504F378ED@usagi.tsukino.pinku.zzn.com>

I used to have an old Lotus 123 1A manual, it was for the 3270PC.  It
mentioned how there was some windowed system and a way to escape to
DOS 2.0 and how 123 had to be run in full-screen mode because it
raw-blitted to the video RAM.  Sounded like the system was rather
Windows 2-like, or at the very least Windows 1-like, back before the
Mac. *blink* I don't know, never seen a 3270PC in real life.

I do think that this CP/88 might be that windowed system.

...I wonder if it could run on Bochs or some other x86 PC emulator *g*

-uso.

kirei-na pinku-na E-MAIL-saito
___________________________________________________________
Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com

From kstailey at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 00:40:24 2003
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 07:40:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan
Message-ID: <20030729144024.91368.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com>

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7035&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

some quotes:

<< LJ: Is it true that you suggested the name "UNIX" for the long ago OS,
Multics? What does that word mean?

BK: Yes, long ago. Multics was an acronym for something like Multiplexed
Information and Computing Service, and it was big and complicated because it
had many of everything. I suggested Unics for Ken's new system, because it was
small and had at most one of anything. (Multi and uni are both Latin roots, so
it was a very weak pun.) Someone else spelled it with the letter X; no one can
remember who. >>

<< LJ: What UNIX OSes do you like? Linux? BSD?

BK: The way I use them, which is as a casual programmer, it doesn't
matter--they are all the same. If I encounter some difference, it only makes me
mad, because there really isn't any reason for things to be different most of
the time. I use Solaris at Princeton, Irix when I visit Bell Labs, and FreeBSD
on my Mac; I also have Cygwin on several PCs so that standard tools are readily
available. >>

But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like
booting up all the way.

http://www.freebsd.org/platforms/ppc.html

<< 3 July, 2002 : This page has been significantly updated. FreeBSD/PowerPC
currently boots almost to the point of reaching single-user mode. >>

Oh well.




From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca  Wed Jul 30 00:53:10 2003
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 10:53:10 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan
Message-ID: <20030729145344.4EFA91E85@minnie.tuhs.org>

Kenneth Stailey:

  But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like
  booting up all the way.

=======

I think that just underscores the point: it doesn't matter which
church the system goes to as long as it works.

If everyone was as areligious in their computing the world would
be a much better place.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON

From kstailey at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 30 04:43:20 2003
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 11:43:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan
In-Reply-To: <20030729.085716.34583192.imp@bsdimp.com>
Message-ID: <20030729184320.58227.qmail@web10003.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "M. Warner Losh" <imp at bsdimp.com> wrote:
> In message: <20030729144024.91368.qmail at web10009.mail.yahoo.com>
>             Kenneth Stailey <kstailey at yahoo.com> writes:
> : FreeBSD on my Mac;
> ...
> : But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features
> like
> : booting up all the way.
> 
> There was a FreeBSD/68k port in the 1.1 time frame.  It was never
> integrated into the main FreeBSD sources due to The Lawsuit and
> FreeBSD starting over with 4.4-lite.
> 
> Warner

Actually, I just figured out that when BK said "FreeBSD on Mac" he meant "Mac
OS X".  (Doh!)



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From imp at bsdimp.com  Wed Jul 30 00:57:16 2003
From: imp at bsdimp.com (M. Warner Losh)
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 08:57:16 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Interview with Brian Kernighan
In-Reply-To: <20030729144024.91368.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20030729144024.91368.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030729.085716.34583192.imp@bsdimp.com>

In message: <20030729144024.91368.qmail at web10009.mail.yahoo.com>
            Kenneth Stailey <kstailey at yahoo.com> writes:
: FreeBSD on my Mac;
...
: But Brian, FreeBSD does not run on a Mac unless you don't need features like
: booting up all the way.

There was a FreeBSD/68k port in the 1.1 time frame.  It was never
integrated into the main FreeBSD sources due to The Lawsuit and
FreeBSD starting over with 4.4-lite.

Warner

