From james at peacemax.org  Wed Aug 10 01:09:26 2005
From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:09:26 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer
Message-ID: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org>

To all interested,
   This is not meant as a advertising.
   The following is meant for informational purposes only.
    An entire PDP-11/23 system plus minicomputer is currently up for 
auction on E-Bay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Equipment-Corp-PDP-11-23-plus-minicomputer_W0QQitemZ5226862708QQcategoryZ4193QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem 


  
There is a person that has requested that the disk drive and disks be 
dumped if that person should win.
 
There are 2 disks marked "system" on them.

   As a part of The Unix Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep 
this system intact. I personally do not have the money to successfully 
bid and win. I hope somebody from The Unix Heritage Society will take up 
the cause and make a successful winning bid. The system in it's entirety 
is a part of The Unix Heritage.





From james at peacemax.org  Wed Aug 10 07:31:13 2005
From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 15:31:13 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer
In-Reply-To: <42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>
References: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org>
	<42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>
Message-ID: <42F920A1.9090302@peacemax.org>

Tim,
    I thought Unix was written and used on PDP-11 systems.
    Which PDP-11 systems ought I keep an eye out for?

Thank you,
James Falknor

Tim Shoppa wrote:

>>There are 2 disks marked "system" on them. [...] As part of the Unix
>>Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep this system intact.
>>    
>>
>
>Why do you think the disks are Unix-related?
>
>I'm not saying that it's impossible to run Unix on a 11/23 (in fact I
>was the one who recovered RL02 packs with V6 hacked to run on a 11/23)
>but it's 99.99% certain that this system ran either RT-11 or RSX-11,
>given the context.
>
>Now, if the buyer is dumb enough to buy the system and not use the
>disk drives, it's his responsibility to figure out how the heck he's
>ever going to boot the OS.
>
>Tim.
>
>  
>
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From shoppa at trailing-edge.com  Wed Aug 10 07:15:28 2005
From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:15:28 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer
In-Reply-To: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org>
References: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org>
Message-ID: <42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>

> There are 2 disks marked "system" on them. [...] As part of the Unix
> Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep this system intact.

Why do you think the disks are Unix-related?

I'm not saying that it's impossible to run Unix on a 11/23 (in fact I
was the one who recovered RL02 packs with V6 hacked to run on a 11/23)
but it's 99.99% certain that this system ran either RT-11 or RSX-11,
given the context.

Now, if the buyer is dumb enough to buy the system and not use the
disk drives, it's his responsibility to figure out how the heck he's
ever going to boot the OS.

Tim.


From shoppa at trailing-edge.com  Wed Aug 10 07:54:35 2005
From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 17:54:35 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer
In-Reply-To: <42F920A1.9090302@peacemax.org>
References: <42F8C726.7070405@peacemax.org>
	<42F91CF0.nailCFZ1C4VM1@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>
	<42F920A1.9090302@peacemax.org>
Message-ID: <42F9261B.nailE1J1HAW4K@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>

> I thought Unix was written and used on PDP-11 systems.

It was.  So was DOS-11, RT-11, RSTS/E, RSX-11-*, IAS, etc.

> Which PDP-11 systems ought I keep an eye out for?

Anything but the very lowest end (11/04, 11/03, etc.) if you want
to run Unix.

While Unixes show up on -11's in many applications, they were
least popular in industrial-control type situations, which is where
most -11's are used.  Of course, just to complicate things, they
were using Unix variants on 11-based industrial control systems too!
And you are right, it is indeed possible that this particular 11/23
has some Unix packs in the deal, I'm just pointing out that it's
unlikely.

And you were especially correct that a buyer would be unwise to
ditch the drives and packs.  An -11 is more than just the CPU box,
if you want to do anything even vaguely useful/interesting!

Tim.


From brantley at coraid.com  Sat Aug 20 09:07:27 2005
From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 19:07:27 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Any Thuth or Zed stuff out there
Message-ID: <21dfd08145551d1661ee4d2c56bc3b06@coraid.com>

Are there any people who worked with Thuth
or the language Zed out there?  Any hope of
getting the source for the Zed compiler
or a compiler for the Eh language?

  Brantley


From james at peacemax.org  Mon Aug 29 03:23:25 2005
From: james at peacemax.org (James Falknor)
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:23:25 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell
	Laboratories.
Message-ID: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org>

To all concerned,
    I discovered this little gem up for auction on E-Bay.
    One of the stickers state that it is Seventh Edition from Bell Labs
    I have placed a small bid on it ($5.00 US).

Advice required:
1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on?
2. What should my highest bid be?
3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't have 
a tape machine or computer for such tape.

Thank you,
James Falknor




From wkt at tuhs.org  Mon Aug 29 07:40:40 2005
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:40:40 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell
	Laboratories.
In-Reply-To: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org>
References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org>
Message-ID: <20050828214040.GA8781@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 11:23:25AM -0600, James Falknor wrote:
> 1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on?

It's definitely a collectors item.

> 2. What should my highest bid be?

No idea :)

> 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't have 
> a tape machine or computer for such tape.

We've already extracted the contents from similar tapes, so probably no.

Hope this helps,
	Warren


From grog at lemis.com  Mon Aug 29 12:09:43 2005
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:39:43 +0930
Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell
	Laboratories.
In-Reply-To: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org>
References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org>
Message-ID: <20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Sunday, 28 August 2005 at 11:23:25 -0600, James Falknor wrote:
> To all concerned,
>    I discovered this little gem up for auction on E-Bay.
>    One of the stickers state that it is Seventh Edition from Bell Labs
>    I have placed a small bid on it ($5.00 US).

That's your maximum, right?   I see $2.25.

> Advice required:
> 1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on?

Possibly.  It's a pity it's not confirmed to be readable.  In any
case, the rule for eBay bidding is to wait until the very last minute
(literally a minute or two before the auction closes) and to know what
your maximum bid is.  Specify it and you'll only pay enough to outbid
anybody else (if possible).

> 2. What should my highest bid be?

I'd be inclined to go to about $20 or so, but that's my feeling.

> 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't
> have a tape machine or computer for such tape.

I'm surprised that Warren said no here.  It's possible that some of
the code might be different; it would certainly be worth comparing.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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From wkt at tuhs.org  Mon Aug 29 12:46:58 2005
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:46:58 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell
	Laboratories.
In-Reply-To: <20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com>
References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org>
	<20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <20050829024658.GA61615@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 11:39:43AM +0930, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
> > 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't
> > have a tape machine or computer for such tape.
> 
> I'm surprised that Warren said no here.  It's possible that some of
> the code might be different; it would certainly be worth comparing.

You are right, I shouldn't be so dismissve. I didn't want James to bid
big $$$ for a tape if it was just to send to the TUHS :)

Greg's suggestion of possibly different versions is worth considering.
Let us know if you happen to win the auction!

	Warren


From asbesto at freaknet.org  Mon Aug 29 17:05:26 2005
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:05:26 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] Debugging a PDP11/34
Message-ID: <20050829070526.GA7077@freaknet.org>


Hi, 

can someone give any hint about debugging a PDP11/34 ?

If you remember, we had strange hardware problems and
the pdp11/34 can't boot anymore. In these days we will 
do some testing, so ... we need help! :)

tnx all

p.s. for info about the problem here:

http://groups.google.co.jp/group/alt.sys.pdp11/browse_thread/thread/7b11ffe8a819c2c1/17c8bf5631cedf9f?lnk=st&q=pdp11+broken+chip&rnum=1&hl=ja#17c8bf5631cedf9f


-- 
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

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From shoppa at trailing-edge.com  Mon Aug 29 19:49:04 2005
From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 05:49:04 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell 
	Laboratories.
In-Reply-To: <20050829024658.GA61615@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <4311F30D.2030703@peacemax.org>
	<20050829020943.GK5861@wantadilla.lemis.com>
	<20050829024658.GA61615@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <4312DA10.nailFFU11KIN3@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>

> It's possible that some of the code might be different; it would
> certainly be worth comparing.

Bell Labs was pretty good about labeling tapes shipping out the door
to customers, and I'm guessing this tape falls under this category.
In this case, the printed label would uniquely identify the contents
of the tape.

If this was internal from Bell Labs or a modified 7th edition tape
made by a licensee (it happens, especially for odd device support) then
it might not be what's already been imaged.

Tim.


From asbesto at freaknet.org  Wed Aug 31 00:59:35 2005
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:59:35 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] can someone help about the pdp11/34 boot ? :(
Message-ID: <20050830145935.GA3659@freaknet.org>


Hi,

is anyone here that can help us booting the pdp11/34 ? :(

we're becoming mad :(((

the boot loader hangs at 001012. can someone help understand
why? 

we haven't any bus error, and we have no prompt at serial
terminal pressing "ctrl-boot"

this is the boot code, found in "E-10 Loading Software Bootstrap":

location	contents
001000		012701
001002		174400
001004		012761
001006		000013
001010		000004
001012		012711
001014		000004
001016		105711
001020		100376
001022		005061
001024		000002
001026		005061
001030		000004
001032		012761
001034		177400
001036		000006
001040		012711
001042		000014
001044		105711
001046		100376
001050		005007

starting it, the display show "1012", i think this mean that 
he stop at address 001012. why? 

please someone help, we're here trying to boot it.

also, some test code and how-to test is appreciated :)

-- 
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

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From asbesto at freaknet.org  Wed Aug 31 03:51:21 2005
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:51:21 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] Weird result about a test on the pdp11/34 ...
Message-ID: <20050830175120.GA14759@freaknet.org>


Sorry for this,

we are here for a 48 hour continued debugging session at
Freaknet Medialab, trying to restore this pdp11/34 ...

now we discovered this:

running a program full of NOP, followed by HALT, it 
stop after 12 cycles !!!

so, if the program start at 1000, and end at 1100 with the 
HLT istruction ... the CPU STOP showing 1012 !!!

and, if we input the program starting from 1400, all NOP, 
with the HLT at 1500, it stop at 1412!

and, sometimes, it stop on address 002002 !!! it seem
not executing the HLT ... 

what can it be ? :( the 128K mos memory M7891 i tried to
repair some time ago ?

p.s. the program itself is as we wrote in :!

if someone can answer in real time, it would be great - we are
also on IRC, #pdp11 on ircnet, and ICQ 36294456. :D

 

-- 
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

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From asbesto at freaknet.org  Wed Aug 31 04:57:54 2005
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:57:54 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :)))
Message-ID: <20050830185753.GA19283@freaknet.org>


it's incredible,

after 3 years, it BOOTED !!!

the images, taken some minutes ago, are here:

http://zaverio.net/pdp11

it's INCREDIBLE

we removed the cpu boards, we looked all the chips in it ... 
eating pizza and sicilian food (you can see it in the photos),
and we re-inserted them ...

and, just for a desperate test, we tried CTRL-BOOT ...

and, THE CPU was RUNNING! so we tested all the console
cables ... that seem not working ... we found another 
cable, with a null-modem converter, so we connected an old
IBM terminal ...

and, it was incredible, we had the CONSOLE CURSOR!!! :)))

NOW,
the next step is to FIND what was faulty ... a false contact in the
board connectors ???

any other hint? :)

p.s. tonight we want to install UNIX. :D


-- 
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ]
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From asbesto at freaknet.org  Wed Aug 31 06:44:24 2005
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:44:24 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] A patch for compiling vtserver under linux ...
Message-ID: <20050830204424.GA9088@freaknet.org>

Compiling vtserver gave me an error:

asbesto at gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ cc vtserver.c -o vtserver
/tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0x76e): In function o_command':
: undefined reference to rrno'
/tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xad6): In function ead_config':
: undefined reference to rrno'
/tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xb63): In function ead_config':
: undefined reference to rrno'
/tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xd10): In function etraw':
: undefined reference to rrno'
/tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xdc1): In function etraw':
: undefined reference to rrno'
/tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xe7e): more undefined references to rrno' follow
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
asbesto at gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ 

This due to the way errno is now used; errno.h has to be 
included. 

Here's a patch to compile vtserver 2.3a-20010404 under linux:


-------begin-patch-snip-here------
--- vtserver.c	2001-04-04 02:57:38.000000000 +0000
+++ vtserver-linux.c	2005-08-30 20:40:32.000000000 +0000
@@ -74,7 +74,23 @@
 #include <unistd.h>
 #include <stdlib.h>
 #include <string.h>
-char *strerror(int errno);
+
+#ifdef linux
+/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto at freaknet.org
+   linux need errno.h included. :)
+*/
+#include <errno.h>
+
+/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto at freaknet.org
+   as errno.h was included, the following line need 
+   to be commented:
+   char *strerror(int errno); 
+*/
+#else
+
+ char *strerror(int errno); 
+ 
+#endif
 
 /* Commands sent in both directions */
 struct vtcmd {

---------------------end-patch-snap-here---------

maybe this can be included in ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver
and maybe the version of vtserver has to be changed :)

p.s. i'm not so good in C, i quit programming many years ago, i
hope this can work ok  :)))))

hope all this can help.

-- 
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ]
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From chronaut at juno.com  Wed Aug 31 07:49:30 2005
From: chronaut at juno.com (chronaut at juno.com)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:49:30 GMT
Subject: [TUHS] the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :)))
Message-ID: <20050830.144939.860.217988@webmail12.nyc.untd.com>

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From carl.lowenstein at gmail.com  Wed Aug 31 02:18:57 2005
From: carl.lowenstein at gmail.com (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 09:18:57 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] can someone help about the pdp11/34 boot ? :(
In-Reply-To: <20050830145935.GA3659@freaknet.org>
References: <20050830145935.GA3659@freaknet.org>
Message-ID: <5904d573050830091843d54d30@mail.gmail.com>

On 8/30/05, asbesto <asbesto at freaknet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> is anyone here that can help us booting the pdp11/34 ? :
> 
> the boot loader hangs at 001012. can someone help understand
> why?
> 
> we haven't any bus error, and we have no prompt at serial
> terminal pressing "ctrl-boot"
> 
> this is the boot code, found in "E-10 Loading Software Bootstrap":
> 
> location contents pseudo-source code
> 001000 012701 mov #174400, r1
> 001002 174400
> 001004 012761 mov #13, 4(r1)
> 001006 000013
> 001010 000004
> 001012 012711 mov #4, @r1
> 001014 000004
> 001016 105711 tstb @r1
> 001020 100376 bpl .-2
> 001022 005061 clr 2(r1)
> 001024 000002
> 001026 005061 clr 4(r1)
> 001030 000004
> 001032 012761 mov #-400, 6(r1)
> 001034 177400
> 001036 000006
> 001040 012711 mov #14, @r1
> 001042 000014
> 001044 105711 tstb @r1
> 001046 100376 bpl .-2
> 001050 005007 clr pc
> 
> starting it, the display show "1012", i think this mean that
> he stop at address 001012. why?


The display shows the next address to be executed. When the processor halts, 
what are the
actual contents of locations 1000-1010? Are they what you keyed in, or has 
this memory been
over-written? 

This looks like code for a RL01/RL02.
Is the bus address of its control registers the normal 174400 - 177406?

If you replace the last instruction CLR PC (5007) with HLT (0000) does the 
processor
get there? This should happen regardless of what is read from the disk, 
because the
code from the disk is not executed.

You can find a lot of small key-in test programs at
< http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/public/ODT/SourceCode/ >

carl
-- 
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenst at ucsd.edu
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From wkt at tuhs.org  Wed Aug 31 17:47:30 2005
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 17:47:30 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] A patch for compiling vtserver under linux ...
In-Reply-To: <20050830204424.GA9088@freaknet.org>
References: <20050830204424.GA9088@freaknet.org>
Message-ID: <20050831074730.GA21204@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Tue, Aug 30, 2005 at 08:44:24PM +0000, asbesto wrote:
> Here's a patch to compile vtserver 2.3a-20010404 under linux:

	[ patch omitted]

Thanks Asbesto and also congratulations on getting your system to
boot.  Fred van Kempen has taken over maintenance of vtserver, but
I don't have a working e-mail address for him. Does anybody know
how to contact him?

Thanks,
	Warren


From asbesto at freaknet.org  Wed Aug 31 21:54:34 2005
From: asbesto at freaknet.org (asbesto)
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 11:54:34 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] Help about Data General ECLIPSE MV/7800XP
Message-ID: <20050831115434.GA10407@freaknet.org>


Hi, 

here we are back from pdp-11/34 restoration. We haven't 
installed unix, because we have to prepare a special 
disk image for V6 to be installed on the RL02 disk 
(only 10 megabytes :)...

now we're working on the Data General we have at our 
lab in Palazzolo Acreide, a little town in Sicilia
(http://poetry.freaknet.org)

We had an hardware problem some time ago - the tape 
had some electrolytic condensers to be changed, the 
fuse blow out, ecc. ecc., but now we think the main 
electric part is OK, because the tape start, and
try to load the tape ... but

using CLI to boot the tape, we have this error:

SCP-CLI> boot
Boot from what device? [24]: 22
Fatal System Error: Data Channel Bus Timeout

AC0         AC1         AC2         AC3         PC          CARRY  ATU
00000000044 00000200000 00000170360 37700000000 00000000000 0      OFF

SCP-CLI>

can someone help? We have original DG/UX tapes here, and
we want to install them on our disk, that now contain a
weird AOS/VS installation (and we have some backup of
it in other tapes)

sorry for spamming the mailing list - but this list is our
only resort :)

(and i apologize for my bad, "italian way" english language :)))

-- 
[ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ]
[ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ]
[ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ]
[ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

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