From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Thu Aug 12 03:28:13 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:28:13 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
Message-ID: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Hi All,
Well I know it's been quiet for ages on this but hopefully someone is 
listening.

I've just started to put P11 on a new Linux box and am having problems 
building begemot.  It keeps blowing out when compiling panic.  Is there 
a more recent version or are there some obvious patches I can do.

Regards

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch

From grog at lemis.com  Thu Aug 12 09:54:18 2004
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:24:18 +0930
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
References: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040811235417.GY19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Wednesday, 11 August 2004 at 18:28:13 +0100, Robin Birch wrote:
> Hi All,
> Well I know it's been quiet for ages on this but hopefully someone is
> listening.
>
> I've just started to put P11 on a new Linux box and am having problems
> building begemot.  It keeps blowing out when compiling panic.  Is there
> a more recent version or are there some obvious patches I can do.

It hasn't been updated in a while IIRC.  What are your error messages?

Greg
--
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 03:49:11 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:49:11 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <20040811235417.GY19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
References: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
 <20040811235417.GY19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <A$osJPBX26GBFws0@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Greg,
I've sent you a list of what I get.  I think, from the messages that I 
am getting the problem is in the various selections in the header file. 
I got it through by changing the definitions in the .c files.  The 
compiler doesn't seem to handle variations in the declarations very 
well.

All,
I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the 
configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell file by going 
/bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script 
with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error.  This is 
preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things.  Any 
ideas?

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch

From wkt at tuhs.org  Fri Aug 13 06:39:16 2004
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 06:39:16 +1000
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <A$osJPBX26GBFws0@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
References: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
	<20040811235417.GY19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
	<A$osJPBX26GBFws0@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040812203916.GA28699@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 06:49:11PM +0100, Robin Birch wrote:
> I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the 
> configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell file by going 
> /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script 
> with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error.  This is 
> preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things.  Any 
> ideas?

More details please. Which is "this computer"? What OS and version is it
running? What's your login shell? Is the shell script executable?

	Warren

From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 06:29:48 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:29:48 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <411BBDD3.3050400@sun.com>
References: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
 <20040811235417.GY19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
 <A$osJPBX26GBFws0@falstaf.demon.co.uk> <411BBDD3.3050400@sun.com>
Message-ID: <lIyVkxA8M9GBFwbB@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

In message <411BBDD3.3050400 at sun.com>, Chris Drake <chris.drake at sun.com> 
writes
>I'd be interested in seeing your results and final analysis for begemot.
>I tried (briefly) getting it to run and gave up.  Post 'em!
>
>> I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the 
>>configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell file by 
>>going /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell 
>>script  with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error.
>
>Starting with the simplest possibility --  if you run "sh filename", all
>you need are read permissions on the file.  If you run "filename" with the
>#!/bin/sh in the first line, the filename itself needs to have execute
>permissions enabled.
>
>Try  chmod a+x filename  and see if that helps.
>
>If that's not the issue, then more detail on the error message would be
>good.  There are tons of different messages and if you don't get the exact
>right one when you're trying to debug, you can go down lots of wild rat 
>holes...
>
>       - Chris
>
Hi Chris,
The most curious one is a "bad interpreter" one.  This is what I get 
along with the permissions moan.  But curiously if I run it sh filename 
then all works.

It is as though there is some global shell permissions set up that is 
munged.

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch

From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 06:27:41 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:27:41 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772140F6047@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>
References: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772140F6047@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>
Message-ID: <rYSWgRA9K9GBFwaT@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

In message 
<7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772140F6047 at mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>, Fred N. 
van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl> writes
>> I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the
>> configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell
>> file by going
>> /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script
>> with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission
>> error.  This is
>> preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things.  Any
>> ideas?
>Make sure the scripts have mode 0755 (or 0555, or whatever, as
>long as you have both read AND execute perm on the file...
>
>--f
Done that.  What happens is that sometimes I get a permissions complaint 
but sometimes I get a "bad interpreter" message.  If I execute the shell 
with the file name as a parameter then it all works.  I'm stumped.

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch

From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 07:12:07 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:12:07 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <20040812203916.GA28699@minnie.tuhs.org>
References: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
 <20040811235417.GY19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
 <A$osJPBX26GBFws0@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
 <20040812203916.GA28699@minnie.tuhs.org>
Message-ID: <N40fIwBn09GBFwdA@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

In message <20040812203916.GA28699 at minnie.tuhs.org>, Warren Toomey 
<wkt at tuhs.org> writes
>On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 06:49:11PM +0100, Robin Birch wrote:
>> I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the
>> configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell file by going
>> /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script
>> with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error.  This is
>> preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things.  Any
>> ideas?
>
>More details please. Which is "this computer"? What OS and version is it
>running? What's your login shell? Is the shell script executable?
>
>       Warren
Hi Warren,
SuSE Linux Version 8.
bash shell also tried with tsch
Shell script permissions 755

I also get a bad interpreter message if I try and exec the scripts.

Cheers

Robin
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

-- 
Robin Birch

From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 07:14:39 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:14:39 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <411BD929.4080009@sun.com>
References: <xA2QmgAtclGBFwZa@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
 <20040811235417.GY19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
 <A$osJPBX26GBFws0@falstaf.demon.co.uk> <411BBDD3.3050400@sun.com>
 <lIyVkxA8M9GBFwbB@falstaf.demon.co.uk> <411BD929.4080009@sun.com>
Message-ID: <w4iQoNC$29GBFwab@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

In message <411BD929.4080009 at sun.com>, Chris Drake <Chris.Drake at sun.com> 
writes
>> The most curious one is a "bad interpreter" one.  This is what I get 
>>along with the permissions moan.  But curiously if I run it sh 
>>filename then all works.
>>  It is as though there is some global shell permissions set up that 
>>is munged.
>
>Hoo, you've got a weirdo, all right.  Darn, I was hoping it was trivial.
>
>Bad interpreter: sounds like the first line where you select "the shell"
>is munched somehow.  Officially, you can select any interpreter you want -
>but you gotta get the name right.  :)
>
>More thoughts:
>       - any problems with the pathname?  Is it /bin/sh and nothing else?
>       - check perms on /, /bin, and /bin/sh just in case something got
>         zapped
>       - what's your normal shell?  How about it you change /bin/sh to
>         the thing you run normally?
>       - does anything follow the "sh" on the line?  Like, perchance any
>         strange nonprintable chars that might be interpreted as a part
>         of the name or as a parameter to the shell?
>       - try #!/bin/sh -x   to see if you get any output from the script
>         as it's run
>       - do other scripts like one-liners work OK?  Ie,
>               #!/bin/sh
>               echo hello world
>       - any other messages?
>
>Just saw Warren's email, and he has a few good ones as well - like, what are
>you running on?  :)
>
>       - Chris
>
Hi Chris,
See my reply to Warren.  I'll try this all tomorrow, the system is in 
work.

Cheers

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch

From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Fri Aug 13 09:01:22 2004
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:01:22 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
Message-ID: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>

> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:49:11 +0100
> To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
> From: Robin Birch <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [pups] Installing begemot

> I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the 
> configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell file by going 
> /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script 
> with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error.  This is 
> preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things.  Any 
> ideas?

Yes.  See the following transcript of a session.  I created a small
script named "bad" which just does "date" to show that it worked.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
iota: try 1107$ ls -l bad
-rwxrwxr-x  1 cdl cdl 16 Aug 12 15:56 bad*
iota: try 1108$ /bin/sh bad
Thu Aug 12 15:57:37 PDT 2004
iota: try 1109$ ./bad
: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
iota: try 1110$ cat bad
#!/bin/sh
date
iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  \r  \n   d   a   t   e  \n
0000020
iota: try 1112$
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Note that there is a '\r' character at the end of the #! line.

    carl
-- 
    carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                 clowenst at ucsd.edu


From sms at 2BSD.COM  Fri Aug 13 09:29:51 2004
From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 16:29:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000@moe.2bsd.com>


On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Carl Lowenstein wrote:

> iota: try 1109$ ./bad
> : bad interpreter: No such file or directory
> iota: try 1110$ cat bad
> #!/bin/sh
> date
> iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
> 0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  \r  \n   d   a   t   e  \n
> 0000020
> iota: try 1112$
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 
> 
> Note that there is a '\r' character at the end of the #! line.

	And that's the cause of the problem.  The kernel is scanning for
	'\n' and when it finds the (unix) end-of-line character it then
	tries to exec the program "/bin/sh\r" and fails.

	Was the original script created on a windoze box perhaps?  Or was
	a different method of getting a \r  used? :)

	Cheers,
	Steven Schultz


From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 17:15:51 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:15:51 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>
References: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <eDFrWEBnqGHBFwlB@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

In message <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938 at opihi.ucsd.edu>, Carl Lowenstein 
<cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu> writes
>> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:49:11 +0100
>> To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
>> From: Robin Birch <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
>> Subject: Re: [pups] Installing begemot
>
>> I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the
>> configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell file by going
>> /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script
>> with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error.  This is
>> preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things.  Any
>> ideas?
>
>Yes.  See the following transcript of a session.  I created a small
>script named "bad" which just does "date" to show that it worked.
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>iota: try 1107$ ls -l bad
>-rwxrwxr-x  1 cdl cdl 16 Aug 12 15:56 bad*
>iota: try 1108$ /bin/sh bad
>Thu Aug 12 15:57:37 PDT 2004
>iota: try 1109$ ./bad
>: bad interpreter: No such file or directory
>iota: try 1110$ cat bad
>#!/bin/sh
>date
>iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
>0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  \r  \n   d   a   t   e  \n
>0000020
>iota: try 1112$
>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>Note that there is a '\r' character at the end of the #! line.
>
>    carl
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh :-)

Well done, I'll try sorting this out at work.  I feel like a bulk tr 
script coming on.

Robin
-- 
Robin Birch

From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 17:19:15 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:19:15 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000@moe.2bsd.com>
References: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>
 <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000@moe.2bsd.com>
Message-ID: <RDwoGlBztGHBFwFC@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

In message <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000 at moe.2bsd.com>, 
Steven M. Schultz <sms at 2BSD.COM> writes
>
>On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Carl Lowenstein wrote:
>
>> iota: try 1109$ ./bad
>> : bad interpreter: No such file or directory
>> iota: try 1110$ cat bad
>> #!/bin/sh
>> date
>> iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
>> 0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  \r  \n   d   a   t   e  \n
>> 0000020
>> iota: try 1112$
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>
>> Note that there is a '\r' character at the end of the #! line.
>
>       And that's the cause of the problem.  The kernel is scanning for
>       '\n' and when it finds the (unix) end-of-line character it then
>       tries to exec the program "/bin/sh\r" and fails.
>
>       Was the original script created on a windoze box perhaps?  Or was
>       a different method of getting a \r  used? :)
>
>       Cheers,
>       Steven Schultz
>
Hi Steve,
Long time no chat.

The scripts were tar'd off a Mandrake linux system then untar'd on a 
SuSE system.  Something has got munged in the process I guess.

What I'll do is a make really clean and then tr the whole thing to add 
\n instead of \r and start again.

Cheers

Robin
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

-- 
Robin Birch

From grog at lemis.com  Fri Aug 13 17:33:57 2004
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:03:57 +0930
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <RDwoGlBztGHBFwFC@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
References: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>
	<Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000@moe.2bsd.com>
	<RDwoGlBztGHBFwFC@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20040813073357.GW19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Friday, 13 August 2004 at  8:19:15 +0100, Robin Birch wrote:
> In message <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000 at moe.2bsd.com>,
> Steven M. Schultz <sms at 2BSD.COM> writes
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Carl Lowenstein wrote:
>>
>>> iota: try 1109$ ./bad
>>> : bad interpreter: No such file or directory
>>> iota: try 1110$ cat bad
>>> #!/bin/sh
>>> date
>>> iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
>>> 0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  \r  \n   d   a   t   e  \n
>>> 0000020
>>> iota: try 1112$
>>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>> Note that there is a '\r' character at the end of the #! line.
>>
>>      And that's the cause of the problem.  The kernel is scanning for
>>      '\n' and when it finds the (unix) end-of-line character it then
>>      tries to exec the program "/bin/sh\r" and fails.
>>
>>      Was the original script created on a windoze box perhaps?  Or was
>>      a different method of getting a \r  used? :)
>>
>>      Cheers,
>>      Steven Schultz
>>
> Hi Steve,
> Long time no chat.
>
> The scripts were tar'd off a Mandrake linux system then untar'd on a
> SuSE system.  Something has got munged in the process I guess.
>
> What I'll do is a make really clean and then tr the whole thing to add
> \n instead of \r and start again.

Judging by the above, you want to remove the \r, not change them to
\n.

Greg
--
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 20:33:23 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (robinb at ruffnready.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:33:23 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <20040813073357.GW19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <E1BvZND-000C9v-0b@anchor-post-37.mail.demon.net>

grog at lemis.com wrote:
> On Friday, 13 August 2004 at  8:19:15 +0100, Robin Birch wrote:
> > In message <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000 at moe.2bsd.com>,
> > Steven M. Schultz <sms at 2BSD.COM> writes
> >>
> >> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> >>
> >>> iota: try 1109$ ./bad
> >>> : bad interpreter: No such file or directory
> >>> iota: try 1110$ cat bad
> >>> #!/bin/sh
> >>> date
> >>> iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
> >>> 0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  r  n   d   a   t   e  n
> >>> 0000020
> >>> iota: try 1112$
> >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>
> >>> Note that there is a 'r' character at the end of the #! line.
> >>
> >>      And that's the cause of the problem.  The kernel is scanning for
> >>      'n' and when it finds the (unix) end-of-line character it then
> >>      tries to exec the program "/bin/shr" and fails.
> >>
> >>      Was the original script created on a windoze box perhaps?  Or was
> >>      a different method of getting a r  used? :)
> >>
> >>      Cheers,
> >>      Steven Schultz
> >>
> > Hi Steve,
> > Long time no chat.
> >
> > The scripts were tar'd off a Mandrake linux system then untar'd on a
> > SuSE system.  Something has got munged in the process I guess.
> >
> > What I'll do is a make really clean and then tr the whole thing to add
> > n instead of r and start again.
> Judging by the above, you want to remove the r, not change them to
> n.
> Greg
In case the first reply didn't get there, I am having difficulties everywhere at the moemnt :-((((

It is more complicated than just the /r.  I've checked the scripts and they are quite legal.  I can run them from my home directory but not from the directory I am using to build the packages in.  This is the same for the distributed scripts and any that I write.  The package directory is on a separate device fom the home directories and all of the directories above the packages one are set 777.

I'm now positively confused!!!!!

Robin
> --
> Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
> Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> 


From robinb at falstaf.demon.co.uk  Fri Aug 13 20:29:32 2004
From: robinb at falstaf.demon.co.uk (robinb at falstaf.demon.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:29:32 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <20040813073357.GW19643@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <E1BvZJU-0006tA-0X@anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net>

grog at lemis.com wrote:
> On Friday, 13 August 2004 at  8:19:15 +0100, Robin Birch wrote:
> > In message <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10408121627090.18049-100000 at moe.2bsd.com>,
> > Steven M. Schultz <sms at 2BSD.COM> writes
> >>
> >> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> >>
> >>> iota: try 1109$ ./bad
> >>> : bad interpreter: No such file or directory
> >>> iota: try 1110$ cat bad
> >>> #!/bin/sh
> >>> date
> >>> iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
> >>> 0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  r  n   d   a   t   e  n
> >>> 0000020
> >>> iota: try 1112$
> >>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>
> >>> Note that there is a 'r' character at the end of the #! line.
> >>
> >>      And that's the cause of the problem.  The kernel is scanning for
> >>      'n' and when it finds the (unix) end-of-line character it then
> >>      tries to exec the program "/bin/shr" and fails.
> >>
> >>      Was the original script created on a windoze box perhaps?  Or was
> >>      a different method of getting a r  used? :)
> >>
> >>      Cheers,
> >>      Steven Schultz
> >>
> > Hi Steve,
> > Long time no chat.
> >
> > The scripts were tar'd off a Mandrake linux system then untar'd on a
> > SuSE system.  Something has got munged in the process I guess.
> >
> > What I'll do is a make really clean and then tr the whole thing to add
> > n instead of r and start again.
> Judging by the above, you want to remove the r, not change them to
> n.
> Greg
It's more complicated than that.  The issue isn't to do with /r, I've checked all that, it's to do with permissions.  If I execute the script in my home directory it runs fine, if I execute it in the directory I am intending to use for building packages on it blows out.  This happens whenther I use the scripts from the package or write my own.  I have all of the directories above this set to 777, right up to wherre I have the device mounted.  It is on a separate device.

I am now well confused!!!!!!

Robin
> --
> Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
> Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> 


From bill at cs.uofs.edu  Fri Aug 13 22:36:23 2004
From: bill at cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:36:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <E1BvZJU-0006tA-0X@anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net>
Message-ID: <20040813083349.Q1698-100000@server2.cs.uofs.edu>

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 robinb at falstaf.demon.co.uk wrote:

> grog at lemis.com wrote:
>
> It's more complicated than that.  The issue isn't to do with /r, I've
> checked all that, it's to do with permissions.  If I execute the script
> in my home directory it runs fine, if I execute it in the directory
> I am intending to use for building packages on it blows out.  This
> happens whenther I use the scripts from the package or write my own.
> I have all of the directories above this set to 777, right up to
> wherre I have the device mounted.  It is on a separate device.
>
> I am now well confused!!!!!!

I think Linux supports "no_exec" on mounted partitions.  Check to see
if you have accidentally included this option in your mount.

bill


-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>


From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Sat Aug 14 01:17:44 2004
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (robinb at ruffnready.co.uk)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:17:44 +0100
Subject: [pups] installing begemot etc
Message-ID: <E1BvdoO-000M0f-0U@anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net>

Ok Guys,
I humbly apologise for not working this out from day one :-)

The problem was that I'd mounted the device after fstab from the desktop and SuSE in this configuration appears to prevent shell scripts from being fired off.  If I mount everything in fstab at boot time then it all works.

Don't know whether this is a general SuSE thing or whether it is just a "feature" of the version that I'm running (8.2).

Well, you live and learn don't you :-)

Chears and thanks for all of the advice, through which I learn't stuff so it wasn't all that bad.

Robin


From asmodai at ao.mine.nu  Fri Aug 13 09:46:00 2004
From: asmodai at ao.mine.nu (Paul Ward)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:46:00 +0100
Subject: [pups] Installing begemot
In-Reply-To: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>
References: <200408122301.i7CN1MX01938@opihi.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <200408130046.38979.asmodai@ao.mine.nu>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Friday 13 August 2004 00:01, Carl Lowenstein wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:49:11 +0100
> > To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com>
> > From: Robin Birch <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
> > Subject: Re: [pups] Installing begemot
> >
> > I have a different problem as well.  There is something broken in the
> > configuration of this computer!!!!!  If I execute a shell file by going
> > /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script
> > with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error.  This is
> > preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things.  Any
> > ideas?
>
> Yes.  See the following transcript of a session.  I created a small
> script named "bad" which just does "date" to show that it worked.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> iota: try 1107$ ls -l bad
> -rwxrwxr-x  1 cdl cdl 16 Aug 12 15:56 bad*
> iota: try 1108$ /bin/sh bad
> Thu Aug 12 15:57:37 PDT 2004
> iota: try 1109$ ./bad
>
> : bad interpreter: No such file or directory
>
> iota: try 1110$ cat bad
> #!/bin/sh
> date
> iota: try 1111$ od -c bad
> 0000000   #   !   /   b   i   n   /   s   h  \r  \n   d   a   t   e  \n
> 0000020
> iota: try 1112$
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Note that there is a '\r' character at the end of the #! line.
>
>     carl

The problem is often more simple than that, especially with Linux.
Take a look inside /etc/fstab.

if you see "noexec" in any of the mountpoint options, that'll be why you're 
getting the "bad interpreter" responses.

Removal of the offending option will probably fix the problem :)

- -- 
Best regards,
 Paul                            mailto:asmodai at ao.mine.nu
 http://ao.mine.nu/   (NeXTmail) mailto:nextmail at ao.mine.nu
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From slapin at drevlanka.ru  Mon Aug  9 21:22:28 2004
From: slapin at drevlanka.ru (Sergey Lapin)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:22:28 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>

Hi all!!!

While educating people some unix stuff (at time, spare from work as 
admin), I have a need for making some simple UNIX-like  environment for 
people to try to type some simple commands. Now I need to make it possible 
to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7 
or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
running vi could make me happy!!! 

Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.

But now I need vi :(

Thanks a lot!

S.



From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Mon Aug  9 23:16:43 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:16:43 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
Message-ID: <20040809151643.0b5707ea.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:22:28 +0400 (MSD)
Sergey Lapin <slapin at drevlanka.ru> wrote:
> Hi all!!!
> 
> While educating people some unix stuff (at time, spare from work as 
> admin), I have a need for making some simple UNIX-like  environment for 
> people to try to type some simple commands. Now I need to make it possible 
> to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7 
> or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
> Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> running vi could make me happy!!! 
> 
I think you can do this with SIMH. Various scenarios come to mind:
UNIX v5/6/7
	AFAIK you don't have support for IP on these by default, hence

	- separate instances for each user: this requires multiplying
the UNIX disks for each user, hence requires more space. OTOH, starting
the system reduces to writing a script to start simh and calling it
from the login script

	- many users sharing the same instance: there's only one copy of
the system and everybody logs-in on it, saves space, but takes more work.
You can set up simh to attach a number of serial lines to telnet ports
and ask people to telnet to those ports. This is akin to coming into a
computer room and looking for a free terminal (only you can't see until
you try). This may be enhanced substituting the login script of a normal
account by a new one that tries the ports in turn looking for a free one
automatically.

4.x BSD, ULTRIX 3.1, 2.11bsd
	I've been able to run 4.3 from TUHS images without any problem.
I configured the network following the standard procedures and using a
valid IP, and it works as a standalone machines allowing incoming/outgoing
IP connections. No problem here.

> Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
> unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
> recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.
> 
> But now I need vi :(
> 

That's a toughie. VI is big and demands a lot from the system (on ancient
machines). You'll need to configure them with extra memory.. It does not
depend on the emulator itself, mind you, but on the operating system 
providing the required support libraries. 

There are small-footprint editors around, but most I found require curses
so you'd need to port curses back to these ancient systems.

There is a simplistic vi-clone called s whose source code appeared in "A 
Software Tools Sampler", by Web Miller. You can get the sources from his
site
	http://globin.cse.psu.edu/globin/html/software.html

The book says it worked on 4.x BSD. I was back-porting it to V7 just
before holidays but found some problems and left it until I find more
spare time to work on it.

If you can get it to work or find another one that works, let us know, I
for one would welcome it.

				j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From newsham at lava.net  Tue Aug 10 05:11:01 2004
From: newsham at lava.net (Tim Newsham)
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 09:11:01 -1000 (HST)
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
In-Reply-To: <20040809151643.0b5707ea.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
 <20040809151643.0b5707ea.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.58.0408090907030.23447@malasada.lava.net>

> > to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7
> > or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?

As was pointed out, you dont get tcp/ip with v5/6/7.
4.2BSD does not run on the simh hardware, although you can
get quasijarus (4.3BSD) to run.

> > Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> > running vi could make me happy!!!

You can run vi in quasijarus.

> 	- many users sharing the same instance: there's only one copy of
> the system and everybody logs-in on it, saves space, but takes more work.

You can't do this with v5/v6/v7 (at least with the pdp-11) since they
dont support the multi-serial card that simh emulates.  You only
get the console (which you can access over telnet if you configure
it so).

I don't remember if you can use the interdata32 port with multiple
ttys.

You can do this in quasijarus just fine, or even just run telnetd
on the emulated system itself.

Tim N.

From wkt at tuhs.org  Tue Aug 10 09:20:10 2004
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:20:10 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
Message-ID: <20040809232010.GA60336@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 03:22:28PM +0400, Sergey Lapin wrote:
> Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
> unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
> recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.
> But now I need vi :(

You can build my Apout emulator to run 2.11BSD binaries. Then write a
front-end .profile shell script to invoke/exec Apout at login time. The
nice thing with Apout is that there is zero CPU usage unless you are
actually running commands.

http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Emulators/Apout/

	Warren

From slapin at drevlanka.ru  Tue Aug 10 21:07:10 2004
From: slapin at drevlanka.ru (Sergey Lapin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:07:10 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.58.0408090907030.23447@malasada.lava.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408101451330.2653-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Tim Newsham wrote:

> > > to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7
> > > or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
> 
> As was pointed out, you dont get tcp/ip with v5/6/7.
> 4.2BSD does not run on the simh hardware, although you can
> get quasijarus (4.3BSD) to run.
I've got Quasijarus up and running on simh and experimented a lot with it.
Got some fun with learn(1) program, while ex lessons are quite nasty at 
end :)

Well, but it is quite a resource hog comparing to V7.
So there are questions: is there vi for V7? I heard 1BSD, as set of 
patches/software for V7, contains one, but I might be wrong...
Also, as for simh and Quasijarus:
Is it possible to run simh using tap or other virtual interface to forward 
some 
ports to Quazijarus's services?
The machine, I'll host this stuff on will be on colocation and policy 
there is no MAC address changes and no promisceous mode interfaces and no 
additional ethernet cards...

If that will work, I'll go write socket redirector program (to get free 
consoles from one port using simh) :)

Also are there any ppp/slip software for V7 and 4.3BSD?
This way a problem could be solved other way around...

> 
> > > Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> > > running vi could make me happy!!!
> 
> You can run vi in quasijarus.
The best could be have vi under V7 also.

> 
> > 	- many users sharing the same instance: there's only one copy of
> > the system and everybody logs-in on it, saves space, but takes more work.
> 
> You can't do this with v5/v6/v7 (at least with the pdp-11) since they
> dont support the multi-serial card that simh emulates.  You only
> get the console (which you can access over telnet if you configure
> it so).
Does V7 support several serial lines to put getty on? Does simh provide 
such a hardware for it?


> 
> I don't remember if you can use the interdata32 port with multiple
> ttys.
Will check that soon.

> 
> You can do this in quasijarus just fine, or even just run telnetd
> on the emulated system itself.
I can't have dedicated ethernet card for it :(

Thanks a lot!!!

S.



From slapin at drevlanka.ru  Tue Aug 10 22:17:08 2004
From: slapin at drevlanka.ru (Sergey Lapin)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 16:17:08 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [TUHS] V7 and TCP/IP
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408101614420.2653-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>

Hi, all!!!
Just lazy interest:
Was there some TCP/IP implementations for V7, that could be found
now?

All the best,
S.



From newsham at lava.net  Wed Aug 11 04:52:36 2004
From: newsham at lava.net (Tim Newsham)
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 08:52:36 -1000 (HST)
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408101451330.2653-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408101451330.2653-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.58.0408100849360.23447@malasada.lava.net>

> Is it possible to run simh using tap or other virtual interface to forward
> some
> ports to Quazijarus's services?
> The machine, I'll host this stuff on will be on colocation and policy
> there is no MAC address changes and no promisceous mode interfaces and no
> additional ethernet cards...

I'm betting the changes wouldn't be that hard.  /dev/tun is really
easy to use, and should only involve a few lines of change.

If you don't really need networking, but just want remote access,
you can set simh up to have multiple tty's that use listening
sockets on the local machine.  Then people can telnet in to the
machine, but will reach a tty instead of a telnetd/pty.  Of course
there would be no outgoing traffic allowed.

Tim N.

From slapin at drevlanka.ru  Wed Aug 11 20:26:51 2004
From: slapin at drevlanka.ru (Sergey Lapin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:26:51 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [TUHS] simh+Quasijarus success
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408111416510.6443-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>

Hi, all!!!
Still trying to implement multi-user unix-learning environment.

So, I run simh with Quasijarus, when I telnet to port, that is redirected 
from serial, it automatically picks up unused line, that is fine, and 
eleminates a need for reconfiguration.

But there is something interesting: I want to implement possibility to 
allow outgoing connections from emulated VAX. As I understand, 4.3BSD  
supports SLIP protocol. And I can get SLIP working through emulated serial 
line. So, the problem is:

1. How it was used to setup SLIP lines in 4.3BSD? :)
2. The other end - will slirp package work in such case?

All the best, and thanks for all help,

S.


From jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es  Wed Aug 11 21:15:33 2004
From: jrvalverde at cnb.uam.es (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:15:33 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] simh+Quasijarus success
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408111416510.6443-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408111416510.6443-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
Message-ID: <20040811131533.2d8de811.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:26:51 +0400 (MSD)
Sergey Lapin <slapin at drevlanka.ru> wrote:
ething interesting: I want to implement possibility to 
> allow outgoing connections from emulated VAX. As I understand, 4.3BSD  
> supports SLIP protocol. And I can get SLIP working through emulated serial 
>
Again, you don't need to. Just configure IP as usual using an emulated
Ethernet card. E.g. add to the SIMH configuration:

set xq mac=01-02-03-04-05-06
at xq0 eth0

Then boot as usual. When the system comes up, it will recognize an ethernet
card that you can configure as you want. E.g. on boot a message

qe0: delqa, hardware address 01:02:03:04:05:06

will appear in the system log, and you can use a /etc/netstart script like
the one that follows to configure the net:

- ------------------------- 8< cut here 8< -----------------------
#!/bin/sh -
#
#       @(#)netstart    1.1 (Berkeley) 1/10/99

routedflags=-q
rwhod=NO

# myname is my symbolic name
# my-netmask is specified in /etc/networks
#
#hostname=myname.my.domain
hostname=quasijarus.drevlanka.ru# should be the actual internet name of the emulated machine
mynetmask=81.211.111.250	# should be an actual valid IP address
mygateway=81.211.111.1		# should be the real IP of the gateway you use

hostname $hostname

ifconfig imp0 inet $hostname
ifconfig de0 inet $hostname netmask $mynetmask
ifconfig qe0 inet $hostname netmask $mynetmask
ifconfig lo0  inet localhost
route add $hostname localhost 0
hostid $hostname
route add default $mygateway 0
- ------------------------- 8< cut here 8< -----------------------

That should do the trick: now if you have a valid spare IP address to assign
the emulated machine, and use it above, your emulated system will behave like
any other Internet host.

Oh, and of course you will want to have a valid /etc/resolv.conf file so
users in the emulated host can resolve names,like e.g.

domain drevlanka.ru
nameserver 195.161.9.196
nameserver 81.211.111.254

See the manual and FAQ for SIMH for more details on what's going on and other
possible alternatives.

The same goes for 2.11BSD, which takes half the amount of space that 4.3BSD
does, and ultrix-3.1 which takes even less yet. E.g. from my setups here:

# du -sk 2.11bsd 4.4bsd ultrix-3.1
325328  2.11bsd
608952  4.3bsd
20524   ultrix-3.1

Which is to say, may be you will be better off using Ultrix-3.1, which BTW
also includes vi, more and much more... In this case just edit the /etc/rc
file to set the appropriate parameters to ifconfig and default route.

				j
-- 
	These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first!

			    José R. Valverde

	De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

From slapin at drevlanka.ru  Wed Aug 11 21:34:49 2004
From: slapin at drevlanka.ru (Sergey Lapin)
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:34:49 +0400 (MSD)
Subject: [TUHS] simh+Quasijarus success
In-Reply-To: <20040811131533.2d8de811.jrvalverde@cnb.uam.es>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408111526180.6443-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, [ISO-8859-15] JosИ R. Valverde wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:26:51 +0400 (MSD)
> Sergey Lapin <slapin at drevlanka.ru> wrote:
> ething interesting: I want to implement possibility to 
> > allow outgoing connections from emulated VAX. As I understand, 4.3BSD  
> > supports SLIP protocol. And I can get SLIP working through emulated serial 
> >
> Again, you don't need to. Just configure IP as usual using an emulated
> Ethernet card. E.g. add to the SIMH configuration:
> 
> set xq mac=01-02-03-04-05-06
> at xq0 eth0
> 
> Then boot as usual. When the system comes up, it will recognize an ethernet
> card that you can configure as you want. E.g. on boot a message
> 
> qe0: delqa, hardware address 01:02:03:04:05:06
> 
> will appear in the system log, and you can use a /etc/netstart script like
> the one that follows to configure the net:
[skip]

I have no SPARE address. And this thing entirely should be avoided there 
for 2 reasons
1. This is colocated host, ISP has a policy on no MAC address/IP address 
tweaking. Non-standard services are too expensive and should be avoided at 
all costs.

2. This is not dedicated box, hosting email services and www. Not loaded, 
but critical in sence, that services should work.

> # du -sk 2.11bsd 4.4bsd ultrix-3.1
> 325328  2.11bsd
> 608952  4.3bsd
> 20524   ultrix-3.1
> 
> Which is to say, may be you will be better off using Ultrix-3.1, which BTW
> also includes vi, more and much more... In this case just edit the /etc/rc
> file to set the appropriate parameters to ifconfig and default route.

I think about emulating all these systems because of educational nature of 
the project.., Also, maybe free shells for people :)

S.


From kstailey at yahoo.com  Fri Aug 13 02:46:47 2004
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:46:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
Message-ID: <20040812164647.53184.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Sergey Lapin <slapin at drevlanka.ru> wrote:

> Hi all!!!
> 
> While educating people some unix stuff (at time, spare from work as 
> admin), I have a need for making some simple UNIX-like  environment for 
> people to try to type some simple commands. Now I need to make it possible 
> to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7 
> or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that?
> Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of
> running vi could make me happy!!! 
> 
> Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, 
> unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for 
> recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233.
> 
> But now I need vi :(
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> S.

SIMH lets you put the console on a telnet session so a single user can access
any OS that does console I/O over the network.  Not as good as TCP/IP in the
OS.

Harti's p11 PDP-11 emulator is the very best for running 2.11BSD with TCP/IP

http://people.freebsd.org/~harti/

When the CPU is running the idle loop p11 suspends so no wasted CPU.


From wkt at tuhs.org  Fri Aug 13 06:37:37 2004
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 06:37:37 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] Emulators
In-Reply-To: <20040812164647.53184.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0408091509560.27583-100000@cl.drevlanka.ru>
	<20040812164647.53184.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040812203737.GA28683@minnie.tuhs.org>

On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 09:46:47AM -0700, Kenneth Stailey wrote:
> Harti's p11 PDP-11 emulator is the very best for running 2.11BSD with TCP/IP
> http://people.freebsd.org/~harti/
> When the CPU is running the idle loop p11 suspends so no wasted CPU.

Hmm, the same as Apout :-)
	Warren

From md1gavan at mdstud.chalmers.se  Mon Aug 16 21:57:55 2004
From: md1gavan at mdstud.chalmers.se (Anders Gavare)
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:57:55 +0200 (MEST)
Subject: [TUHS] Sprite in mips64emul
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0408161347030.22944@fraggel55.mdstud.chalmers.se>

Hi TUHS list,

In May, Maciek Bieszczad wrote this to the mailing list
(http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2004-May/001022.html):

> It's possible that Sprite could run on the mips64emul DECstation
> emulator (Ultrix runs well enough to start DECwindows):
>
> http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md1gavan/mips64emul/index.html

The emulator didn't actually support running Sprite in May, but nowadays
it does.  Read the following URL for more info:

http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md1gavan/mips64emul/current-doc/index.html#sprite


Anders

From kstailey at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 19 06:41:59 2004
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:41:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] WEBSTER
Message-ID: <20040818204159.44707.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by

 * David A. Curry
 * Purdue University
 * Engineering Computer Network
 * April, 1986

I see in the doc directory a very TOPS-20-ish docuement webster.hlp which
describes the way to invoke the client:

  @WEBSTER word-to-define

I'm assuming the @ is the TOPS-20 prompt.  It also says you can use

  If you want to look up more than one word, just do

        @WEBSTER<return>

  and you will be prompted with

        Word:

  Type the word, or hit <return> to exit.

But if the @ prompt wasn't enough evidence of TOPS-20 you also get:

  <escape> and "?" are used the same way in Webster as in most programs.
  <escape> tries to complete what you have typed so far, and "?" lists
  those words that match your partial word.

Which is pure TOPS-20 "COMND JSYS".  See this page for what "COMND JSYS" is:

http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/decuslib20-01/01/decus/20-0002/comnd.doc.html

There is some cryptic mentioning about EBCDIC conversion as if the dictionary
data went from ASCII to EBCDIC and back to ASCII causing some degradation.

ebcdictp.ememo talks about the format of the EBCDIC tape (not that I have one)
and errors.ememo says:

   2)   Pronunciation records.

          Three classes of errors occur here.

          During the translation to EBCDIC occurances of the glyphs *( and
     )* in the pronunciation records were treated in the same way as in other
     records, that is encoded as <( and >) (representing left and right
     braces), rather than left as is.  Thus a schwa precceding or following an
     optional phoneme was lost.

I just blew a few minutes looking it over today and ported it to FreeBSD/AMD64
catching a 

        char word[BUFSIZ];
        isnumber(word)

bug and some other minor things.

Does anyone else have this treasure running?  I like it better than dict for
etymologies.


From kstailey at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 19 06:42:03 2004
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:42:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] WEBSTER
Message-ID: <20040818204203.98924.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by

 * David A. Curry
 * Purdue University
 * Engineering Computer Network
 * April, 1986

I see in the doc directory a very TOPS-20-ish docuement webster.hlp which
describes the way to invoke the client:

  @WEBSTER word-to-define

I'm assuming the @ is the TOPS-20 prompt.  It also says you can use

  If you want to look up more than one word, just do

        @WEBSTER<return>

  and you will be prompted with

        Word:

  Type the word, or hit <return> to exit.

But if the @ prompt wasn't enough evidence of TOPS-20 you also get:

  <escape> and "?" are used the same way in Webster as in most programs.
  <escape> tries to complete what you have typed so far, and "?" lists
  those words that match your partial word.

Which is pure TOPS-20 "COMND JSYS".  See this page for what "COMND JSYS" is:

http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/decuslib20-01/01/decus/20-0002/comnd.doc.html

There is some cryptic mentioning about EBCDIC conversion as if the dictionary
data went from ASCII to EBCDIC and back to ASCII causing some degradation.

ebcdictp.ememo talks about the format of the EBCDIC tape (not that I have one)
and errors.ememo says:

   2)   Pronunciation records.

          Three classes of errors occur here.

          During the translation to EBCDIC occurances of the glyphs *( and
     )* in the pronunciation records were treated in the same way as in other
     records, that is encoded as <( and >) (representing left and right
     braces), rather than left as is.  Thus a schwa precceding or following an
     optional phoneme was lost.

I just blew a few minutes looking it over today and ported it to FreeBSD/AMD64
catching a 

        char word[BUFSIZ];
        isnumber(word)

bug and some other minor things.

Does anyone else have this treasure running?  I like it better than dict for
etymologies.


From kstailey at yahoo.com  Thu Aug 19 09:05:00 2004
From: kstailey at yahoo.com (Kenneth Stailey)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:05:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [TUHS] WEBSTER
In-Reply-To: <20040818224059.GS88156@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <20040818230500.11872.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 18 August 2004 at 13:41:59 -0700, Kenneth Stailey wrote:
> On Wednesday, 18 August 2004 at 13:42:03 -0700, Kenneth Stailey wrote:
> >
> > I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by
> > ...
> 
> Is there some subtle difference between these two messages?
> 
> Greg
> --

Yahoo! mail web site is acting up today.  I clicked send and then got a blank
page.  Clicked back and then screwed up by clicking Send again in all the
confusion.  Happy you asked?

From grog at lemis.com  Thu Aug 19 08:41:00 2004
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 08:11:00 +0930
Subject: [TUHS] WEBSTER
In-Reply-To: <20040818204203.98924.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040818204159.44707.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20040818204203.98924.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20040818204159.44707.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040818224059.GS88156@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Wednesday, 18 August 2004 at 13:41:59 -0700, Kenneth Stailey wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 August 2004 at 13:42:03 -0700, Kenneth Stailey wrote:
>
> I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by
> ...

Is there some subtle difference between these two messages?

Greg
--
Note: I discard all HTML mail unseen.
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
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From macbiesz at optonline.net  Thu Aug 19 11:30:41 2004
From: macbiesz at optonline.net (macbiesz at optonline.net)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:30:41 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] WEBSTER
Message-ID: <203359c2031c01.2031c01203359c@optonline.net>

> I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by [...]

By the way, you can get the original TOPS-20 source code (dictionary/orig_src.tar), as well as more documentation and history from this site:

http://lost-contact.mit.edu/afs/net/project/afs32/ops/user/jweiss/webster/src/server/

There's also a working Motif interface to the client (the original xwebster used HP widgets):

http://www.scn.rain.com/pub/text/xwebster.motif.tar.Z



