From jss at ou.edu  Sat Mar  3 06:50:09 2001
From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp)
Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 14:50:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
Message-ID: <983566209.3aa007815112f@email.ou.edu>

Hello there!  I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of 
introduction would be in order.  That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of 
questions to ask :).

First, here is a little about myself and why I'm here.  I'm 22 years old.  I go 
to school at the University of Oklahoma, majoring in CS, and work as an 
embedded programmer.  My religion, if one exists, consists of the many tenets 
and folkloric tales of programming.

So here I am, 22; what am I doing asking about PDP-11s and their Unices?  Well, 
I'm hyperinterested in the history of computing, especially that history that 
constitues the minicomputer era.  I guess I arrived at this state by the 
following path:

Birth -> TRS80 -> MSDOS/Windows -> Unix -> Folklore -> Obsession

The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 and 
learn everything I can about it, lest all the remaining ones be usurped by 
museums, to forever lie derelict behind glass walls where no one can ever play 
with them, gain knowledge from them, or truly appreciate them again.  I don't 
want to build an enormous collection -- just one or two that I can keep in 
working order.  My purpose is intellectual exploration.  I have to *experience* 
what computing was like in my favorite era, and this is the only way, since 
unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier.

Finding PDP-11 hardware, while somewhat difficult, is not the prime problem.  
*What* hardware do I find?  I can find out via the Internet the basics of what 
hardware exists, but the information stops rather short of being complete.  I 
need the following questions answered:

* A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first choice) system with a 
TE16 and TM03.  What does the tape drive look like?

* The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'.  Does 'format' in this case 
mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it 
some other meaning?  What does the TM03 look like?

* 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or 
TU16.  Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question?  How is a 
TE16 different from a TU16?

* I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s.  How many can be put into a system?  I need 
a RK11-D controller for this, right?

* Can V7 fit on 3 to 4 RK05s?

* What range of PDP-11 BSD versions will fit comfortably on 3 to 4 RK05s?

* Look at the middle rack in the following picture.  Are those RK05f drives?  
http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/kepek/pdp11-70.jpg

* From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can 
offer.  Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older 
black color scheme?  (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty.  
I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :)

* What kind of controller would one of the above drives need?

* The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem 
570 panel at some point.  How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front 
panel to put back on it?

Whew!  I think that's all for the moment.  All responses are appreciated.

--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss at ou.edu

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From bqt at update.uu.se  Sat Mar  3 21:00:58 2001
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:58 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
In-Reply-To: <983566209.3aa007815112f@email.ou.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:

> Hello there!  I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of 
> introduction would be in order.  That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of 
> questions to ask :).

Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also point out
the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 fanatics, not just
the unix types. :-)

> * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first
> choice) system with a TE16 and TM03.  What does the tape drive look like?

First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a soldering iron
once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. Also, I hope you have a
large house, and *lots* of electricity...

The TE16 is an upright standing drive with vaccum colons. It's a normal
full height 19" cabinet.

> * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'.  Does 'format' in this case 
> mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it 
> some other meaning?  What does the TM03 look like?

The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the massbus on
one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on the other side.
It's a "small" box that resides in the lower part of the TE16 cabinet. You
normally won't ever look at it, except when it breakes.

> * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or 
> TU16.  Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question?  How is a 
> TE16 different from a TU16?

They don't differ.

> * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s.  How many can be put into a system?  I need 
> a RK11-D controller for this, right?

I think each RK11-D can control up to eight drives.

> * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can 
> offer.  Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older 
> black color scheme?  (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty.  
> I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :)

If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives.
They fit 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty".
However, they *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the
floor, and they are *heavy*.
In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB.

All "newer" drives are the off-white that DEC adopted.

> * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need?

RA81: UDA-50
RP06: Massbus (RH70 in your case)

> * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem 
> 570 panel at some point.  How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front 
> panel to put back on it?

Could be tricky...

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From jss at ou.edu  Sun Mar  4 03:06:16 2001
From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:06:16 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <983639176.3aa12488adff1@email.ou.edu>

> > Hello there!
> 
> Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also
> point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11
> fanatics, not just the unix types. :-)

Thanks for that.

> > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70
> 
> First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a
> soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards.
> Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity..

I'm not afraid of a little soldering.  My current plan to ready my house for 
the machine is as follows.  First, I have a wood floor that's suspended above 
the ground by various things in the crawlspace.  I'll have to get down there 
and add some extra bracing where the machine will be.  I'll lay a solid slab of 
strong wood on top of the floor to spread the weight out.  Second, I'll have an 
electrician install the necessary power circuit.  My ballpark figures tell me 
that I need capacity for 8-10kW.

My house is small, but big enough for the 11/70.  In a year or so I will be 
building a new house, complete with its own machine room.

> The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the
> massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on
> the other side.

I figured it might me something like that.

> If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives.  They fit
> 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty".  However, they
> *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor,
> and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB.

Ah, a washing machine.  I don't have room for it now (well, not where the 
machine will be), but I will in the new house.  I've found a person that might 
sell me a RA81 to use until then.

> > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced
> > with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point.  How hard would it
> > be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it?
> 
> Could be tricky...

Hm.  I'd better start looking now.

Thanks for your response.  You have been extremely helpful.

--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss at ou.edu

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From lars at fwn.rug.nl  Sun Mar  4 03:22:10 2001
From: lars at fwn.rug.nl (Lars J. Buitinck)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:22:10 +0100
Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
References: <983566209.3aa007815112f@email.ou.edu>
Message-ID: <3AA12842.6E3EA0E8@fwn.rug.nl>

This seems like the perfect opportunity to introduce myself : )
Thank you Jeffrey.

Lars Buitinck, 17 years old, student (high school, final year), UNIX
fanatic, living in the Netherlands, looking for a reasonable PDP-11
(ie., one that can run 2.11BSD). MrBill (the owner of pdp11.org) knew
where I could find an 11/73 and an 11/83 but both had to be shipped all
the way from the US, both only had one RL02 disk drive, and only one had
a tape drive.

So does anybody know where I can find a reasonably modern, moderately
sized 11, preferably from NL, DE or BE, with some reasonably large disks
(some 50-60 MB minimum, I guess)? A tape drive would be nice... unless I
can borrow one? I don't really care about the colour, as long as it
works ; )

PS.: FYI, I speak English (obviously) and Dutch (again, obviously), and
I understand French and German well enough, but please don't expect me
to mail in French or German.

"Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote:
> 
> Hello there!  I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of
> introduction would be in order.  That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of
> questions to ask :).

...

> The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11
Man, do I know that feeling

> unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier.
If you think you had bad luck, I was born 35 years too late. ; )

-- 
If I traveled to the end of the rainbow
As Dame Fortune did intend,
Murphy would be there to tell me
The pot's at the other end.
                -- Bert Whitney

Lars J. Buitinck


From jss at ou.edu  Mon Mar  5 01:43:54 2001
From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 09:43:54 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [pups] Us vs. Museums
Message-ID: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu>

I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear 
some alternate viewpoints.  Basically, I am against people giving classic 
computers in working condition to museums.  Instead, I believe that they should 
donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn 
things.

A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted.  He was 
torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum.  I didn't have a lot 
of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would 
get him an impressive tax deduction.  I did some research about what it takes 
to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and 
time-consuming to be a viable option for me.  I sent the following argument to 
him:

> While I would love to establish a collection of these machines,
> I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean
> today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or
> to have some pretty decorations in my house.  While it would
> certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to
> get something that I can learn with.  I want to *run* these
> machines.  I want to *explore* these machines.  I want to *hack*
> on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be
> coerced into doing.  I want to get as close as I can to the
> *experience* of computing in these machines' era.  If these
> machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will
> educate _no_one_.  They will sit behind glass walls, no one
> ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or
> keep them in working order.  They are effectively lost.  That's
> little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel
> about that!

What do you think about this?

(BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to)

--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss at ou.edu

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From at258 at osfn.org  Mon Mar  5 09:27:31 2001
From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 18:27:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Re: Us vs. Museums
In-Reply-To: <983720634.3aa262babe633@email.ou.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91-FP.1010304182332.22821A-100000@osfn.org>


Uhhh...
do you really have to ask...

Why can't you execute the paper work for a non-profit yourself?  In RI, 
it's $35.

M. K. Peirce
Rhode Island Computer Museum
Shady Lea, Rhode Island

"Casta est quam nemo rogavit."
           -Ovid

On Sun, 4 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:

> I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear 
> some alternate viewpoints.  Basically, I am against people giving classic 
> computers in working condition to museums.  Instead, I believe that they should 
> donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn 
> things.
> 
> A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted.  He was 
> torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum.  I didn't have a lot 
> of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would 
> get him an impressive tax deduction.  I did some research about what it takes 
> to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and 
> time-consuming to be a viable option for me.  I sent the following argument to 
> him:
> 
> > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines,
> > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean
> > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or
> > to have some pretty decorations in my house.  While it would
> > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to
> > get something that I can learn with.  I want to *run* these
> > machines.  I want to *explore* these machines.  I want to *hack*
> > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be
> > coerced into doing.  I want to get as close as I can to the
> > *experience* of computing in these machines' era.  If these
> > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will
> > educate _no_one_.  They will sit behind glass walls, no one
> > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or
> > keep them in working order.  They are effectively lost.  That's
> > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel
> > about that!
> 
> What do you think about this?
> 
> (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to)
> 
> --
> Jeffrey S. Sharp
> jss at ou.edu
> 
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> 



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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Mon Mar  5 10:54:19 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:54:19 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Some more PDP-11 UNIX Geneaology
Message-ID: <200103050054.f250sJB23189@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

All,
	Just received this from Heinz Lycklama, the creator of Mini-UNIX
and who worked on the floor below Ken and Dennis. It's some interesting
details of some of the offshoots of Research UNIX.

----- Forwarded message from Heinz Lycklama -----

From: Heinz Lycklama <heinz at osta.com>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt at cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Genealogy of Mini UNIX?

Warren, I was checking thru my email and noticed that I never
really answered your questions on the history of UNIX. Just
noticed your web site with some of the information. I do not
have any UNIX source code in my possession - LSX, Mini-UNIX,
MERT or SPS [all described in the BSTJ July/August 1978
edition.] However, I can fill in some of the gaps for you.
Here they are:

LSX, also known as LSI-UNIX was developed for the first
microprocessor produced by DEC - the LSI-11. The whole
system ran in 20Kbytes of memory [NOT MB] with the OS
in the first 8K and the user program swapping in and
out of the upper 12K. More memory could be added, but
it really ran in this amount of memory. I used one
floppy disk (256KB) for the system boot and system
programs, and a second floppy disk (256KB) for user
programs and data. My motivation for producing this
scaled-down UNIX system was for use in the lab for
controlling special test and new equipment. It was
portable and was used to control a music synthesizer
developed by Hal Alles [one of my Bell Labs colleagues.]

To get the system to fit in the small memory footprint,
I stripped it of all non-essentials. Groups were not
supported, and pipes were supported in "user" space.
By this I mean I changed the shell to recognize "|"
and turn it into "> temp1; < temp1" and then remove
the temporary files at the end of the shell command.
I worked with Dennis Ritchie to reduce some of the
table sizes in the C compiler, and even yacc and lex,
so that all of these programs could run under LSX.

The LSX system was typically configured to use one
system floppy and one user floppy. LSX could even
be used to recompile itself - it was self-sustaining.
User programs were swapped into memory above 8K bytes.
The LSX system was added to within Bell Labs by a
number of researchers who had different floppy drivers
and/or needed to support different peripherals. The
system was produced in the summer of 1974 and found
much use within Bell Labs. If only Western Electric
[the precursor of Lucent, and licensor of the UNIX
system] had found a way to offer binary licenses
for the UNIX system back then, the UNIX system
would be running on all PC's today rather than
DOS/Windows. We may be given a second chance
with Linux!

Mini-UNIX was developed by myself when a number of people
came to me and said that they wanted to be able to use
their PDP11/10 computers in the lab to run UNIX programs.
These computers had no memory management unit (MMU) and therefore
could not run unmodified UNIX kernels of the day. I took
on this project during the fall of 1974 while teaching
a number of Explorer Scouts about the UNIX system and
computing in general in the evening. My starting point
was LSX because it had already been modified to run
without an MMU.

This system ran in 12Kbytes and used 16Kbytes for user
programs. I used many of the same tricks to get Mini-UNIX
to run on PDP11 computers without an MMU as I used to
get LSX to run on the LSI-11 microcomputer. Although
I left the support for groups in (as I recall.) After
all, I had 4Kbytes more to work with. These systems
would support one or more RK05 disks with 2.5Mbytes
of disk each.

The Mini-UNIX system was licensed to many different
Universities and studied and modified by many students
and their professors. I've even heard of some who took
Mini-UNIX and made modifications to make it work on
an LSI-11 microcomputer. The Mini-UNIX system was
developed over a period of a few months, making
system changes and recompiling the system in the
evening while I was also teaching Explorer Scouts
about UNIX and computing. The compiles took a long
time - so I was able to "kill two birds with one
stone" so to speak.

The MERT system was designed and implemented by Doug
Bayer and myself at Bell Labs, mostly in the time frame
from 1972 to 1976, when the PDP11/45 computer was first
introduced. It was the first computer that supported
kernel, supervisor and user address spaces. We need
all three spaces so that we could support multiple
computing environments (supervisors) and still
support real-time tasks.

We concentrated on doing the UNIX system supervisor first
but later on we also added support for RSX-11D, DEC's
real-time operating system at the time. It was a very large
undertaking and took us a number of years to accomplish.
There was a need for real-time operating systems in the
development parts of Bell Labs and we soon picked up
real customers for the MERT system. I remember that
during the early years, before we had any customers, we
were encouraged by Ken Thompson to continue the work.
He also saw the need.

The MERT system was eventually used by a number of Bell
Labs customers at all of the major Bell Labs locations.
It was even used as the basis of a fault-resilient
switching system, called duplexing MERT, or DMERT.
Later yet, the key real-time features of the MERT
system were incorporated into later versions of the
main UNIX operating system.

SPS, the Satellite Processor System, was developed
by Carl Christensen and myself. We developed it to
satisfy a need to tie many of our mini- and microcomputers
in the lab together, and to be able to use the familiar
UNIX system and tools to develop distributed applications
for use in the lab. What we did was basically was enable
"UNIX programs" to run on mini-computers in the lab
as if the programs were developed on run on a full
UNIX system. Whenever the program made a "system
call", we trapped it and sent the system call number
and parameters to a UNIX program running on the
host computer. The host computer executed the system
call on behalf of the program running in the
Satellite Processor and returned the results back to it.
This was a great productivity tool for many people
developing lab applications at various Bell Labs
locations. The system was widely distributed within
the Bell System.

Heinz Lycklama

----- End of forwarded message from Heinz Lycklama -----

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From greg at ciswired.com  Tue Mar  6 02:52:16 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 11:52:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Parts sources, etc.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103051139590.28890-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

Hello all,

Some background:

I recently acquired a lot of PDP-11 equipment at an auction which I will be
refurbishing it and adding it to my computer museum.  Basically what I
got was the following: 1 gutted 11/44 with a full CPU set, 1 operating
11/44, 1 operating 11/83, several BA11 expansion boxes, 3 RA81 disks,
3 RL02 disks, etc.

My first plan is to build a big 11/44 system running 2.11BSD using an
RL02 for the root, an RA81 for /usr, swap, and a bootable spare root, and
another RA81 for a home file system.

Questions:

I need sources for the following, can anyone suggest good starting points?

	1.  Unit select plugs for the RL02s.  All the plugs I have are "0",
	I'd like to be able to use more than one RL02 on the system if need be.

	2.  Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s.  I assume they're the
	same lamp for both drives.  These are the lamps that go behind the
	front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write Protect/etc.)
	I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG.  A search on Goodle
	for this pulls up nothing.

	3.  New, or good substitutes, for the coarse air filters used behind
	the 11/44 front panel as well as behind the RA81 front panels.  The
	ones that I have are literally crumbling apart.

	4.  Sources for the rubber/metal motor-mount bushings used on the
	RA81 drive motors.  Many of mine have torn.

	5.  Sources for drive belts for the RL02s/RA81s

	6.  Sources for fine filters (cartridges) used on the RL02s.

	7.  Sources for RL02 disk packs (I have only 2 packs for the
	three drives!)

The working 11/44 I got is an interesting beast.  It appears to have been
supplemented with at least one, possibly two, BA11 expansion boxes.  The
last BA11 looks like it further fed into a QBUS expansion box via a
DW11-B (M9403 - not on the module list) UNIBUS->QBUS converter.  The
thing was loaded.

Thanks,

greg

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18




From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Tue Mar  6 07:22:59 2001
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:22:59 GMT
Subject: [pups] Parts sources, etc.
In-Reply-To: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg@ciswired.com>
        "[pups] Parts sources, etc." (Mar  5, 11:52)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103051139590.28890-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>
Message-ID: <10103052122.ZM22676@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 5, 11:52, Gregory R. Travis wrote:

> I need sources for the following, can anyone suggest good starting
points?
>
> 	1.  Unit select plugs for the RL02s.  All the plugs I have are "0",
> 	I'd like to be able to use more than one RL02 on the system if need
be.

I had a similar problem -- several RL02s but the plugs were for units 0 and
1 ("And sometimes we didn't even have ones.  I wrote an entire database
using only zeros."  "You had zeros?  We had to use the letter 'O'.")

The switches are standard Honeywell AML series, so you might be able to get
plugs for them frm a Honeywell supplier -- but don't hold your breath.

Each plug has a finger on each side (and a "key" on top).  The upper and
lower edge of each finger activates (or not) a contact in the housing.  I
used matchsticks to work out what lengths were required before I saw real
plugs.  Of course, I wouldn't recommend using matchsticks except in an
emergency but you could do what I did, and make your own plugs.  I made
mine from thin Perspex (Lucite), each from five pieces glued together to
make a box.  The "code" is:

Unit   upper left   lower left     upper right    lower right
0        short        short           short          long
1        short        short           long*          long
2        long         long            short          long
3        long         long            long*          long

The ones I've marked "long*" go the full length of the finger, with just a
small bevel to make insertion easier.

> 	2.  Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s.  I assume they're the
> 	same lamp for both drives.  These are the lamps that go behind the
> 	front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write
Protect/etc.)
> 	I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG.  A search on Goodle
> 	for this pulls up nothing.

They're standard T1 1/2 wedge-base bulbs (5mm dia x 18mm long), but to be
authentic you should use 14V bulbs rather than the more common 12V ones.
 12V ones will burn out relatively quickly.

> 	3.  New, or good substitutes, for the coarse air filters used
behind
> 	the 11/44 front panel as well as behind the RA81 front panels.  The
> 	ones that I have are literally crumbling apart.

The best thing I've found is the synthetic open-weave fibrous mat used in
domestic cooker hoods and the like.  I get mine from the local hardware
shop; it's very cheap.  It comes in at least two thicknesses; if the stuff
you find is too thick, you can peel it apart as if it were layered.

Can't help with the rest, I'm afraid.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York

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From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Tue Mar  6 07:48:34 2001
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:48:34 +0100 
Subject: [pups] DEC ULTRIX-11 V3.1 bin/src install kit
Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D19@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>

All,

As a part of my efforts to create an enhanced version of the Ultrix-11 Unix
distribution that can be used on PDP-11's, I started out with creating a kit
that has all the parts and which can be used to create a bootable
installation
tape from which you can install it on a machine.

I am uploading "ultrix11-v3.1-kit.tar.gz" to PUPS as we speak.  A README
file
is included, as contains the following:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
DEC ULTRX-11 V3.1 Master Distribution Kit


This directory contains the files needed to build a complete
installation kit of version 3.1 of the ULTRIX-11 Unix system
for the DEC PDP-11.  Version 3.1 was also the final release;
no more development was done after, as UEG shifted its focus
to the new VAX systems.  Ultrix effectively was ported to the
VAX. and called Ultrix-32.  Later releases were called either
Ultrix/VAX or Ultrix/RISC, depending on which DEC platform it
was for.

This distribution contains files from both the V3.1 binary
kit (dug up by Wilko Bulte), the V3.1 source kit from Steven
Schultz, and some other tools and files grabbed from anywhere.

The kit is basically a regeneratable V3.1 binary boot kit,
with the official SRCKIT added to it (as tape file 35). The
top-level "build" script does what it says.. it builds the
tape so you can start it up and go to get some sleep :)

To get the ball rolling, check the value of the TAPE variable
at the top of the "build" script.  It is set to what MY tape
device (TK50 on TQK50 controller) under Ultrix-11 V3.1 is,
so you may have to change it.

Then, type

    ./build

and watch things go.  After about two hours of tape activity,
you should be woken up by two BEEPs telling you that it is all
done.  Unload the tape and you're all set.

Extreme thanks go to Wilko and Steven for digging up this stuff;
to Bill Gunshannon, Ed "The Wanderer", Kees Stravers and Warren
Toomey for their support while I was fighting hardware problems
and debug weird software issues.  Thanks guys!!

If you run into problems, drop me a note!

Have fun !

Fred N. van Kempen, <fred at microwalt.nl>
March 5th, 2001
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-


Upcoming release of this kit will contain, amongst other things:

- VTserver 2.0 support (you can install the tape off a virtual tape
server!!)
- TDF 1.0 (Tape Dump Format) file support for archiving tape dumps
- My TCP/IP "fromto" network pipe program
- C-Kermit, compress/uncompress
- more documentation
- more network stuff
- my RX50 boot/rescue diskette set (2 RX50's.. neat!)

Watch this space for more....

Warren: expect about 38MB of stuff to drop into your mailbox tonight...

Cheers,
	Fred
--
Fred N. van Kempen                         Fred.van.Kempen at MicroWalt.NL
Microsoft MCSE+I/MCSE/MCSD                               Compaq ASE/ACT
UNIX Systems Programmer                 Cisco ACRC/CCDA/CCNA/SupportPro

            InterNetworking en Network Security Consultant
   MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Korte Heul 95, 1403 ND BUSSUM
  Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215  http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/

Dit  bericht  en  eventuele bijlagen is  uitsluitend  bestemd  voor  de
geadresseerde.  Openbaarmaking,   vermenigvuldiging,  verspreiding  aan
derden  is  niet  toegestaan.   Er   wordt   geen  verantwoordelijkheid 
genomen  voor de juiste en  volledige  overbrenging van  de inhoud  van
dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.

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From SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com  Tue Mar  6 08:42:19 2001
From: SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com (SHOPPA at trailing-edge.com)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 17:42:19 -0500
Subject: [pups] Parts sources, etc.
Message-ID: <010305174219.250002bc@trailing-edge.com>

> 	2.  Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s.  I assume they're the
> 	same lamp for both drives.  These are the lamps that go behind the
> 	front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write
Protect/etc.)
> 	I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG.  A search on Goodle
> 	for this pulls up nothing.

RL02's and RA81's use different bulbs; the #73 is for the RL02, and is
14V.  The #86 is for the RA8n, and is 6.30V.  You can put the #86 in a 
RL02, and while it will be real bright, the lifetime will be measured
in hours.  Put the #73 in a RA8n and it will be dim, but at least it'll last
a while :-).

These bulbs are readily available in the US from most "old-line" electronics
distributors.  Mail order places that stock them are Newark and Mouser;
the relevant Newark URL's are

http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8071

and

http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8068

If you're going to be doing this a lot, you ought to find yourself a
bulb puller.  Getting those bulbs in and out of recessed sockets is a whole
lot easier with such a tool!

Tim.

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From robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk  Tue Mar  6 21:46:08 2001
From: robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk (robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 11:46:08 +0000
Subject: [pups] Half Inch Tape
Message-ID: <00256A07.00419C8F.00@postoffice.co.uk>



Dear All,
I am after some reels of 0.5 inch tape and some spare write protect rings in the
UK.  Can anyone help?

Regards

Robin




From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Wed Mar  7 04:37:20 2001
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:37:20 GMT
Subject: [pups] Half Inch Tape
In-Reply-To: robin.birch@postoffice.co.uk
        "[pups] Half Inch Tape" (Mar  6, 11:46)
References: <00256A07.00419C8F.00@postoffice.co.uk>
Message-ID: <10103061837.ZM23410@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 6, 11:46, robin.birch at postoffice.co.uk wrote:
>
>
> Dear All,
> I am after some reels of 0.5 inch tape and some spare write protect rings
in the
> UK.  Can anyone help?

I may have one or two spare reels, and I certainly have quite a few spare
write rings.  How many are you looking for?  Does it matter if they're in
Wright-line seals, canisters, or autoload collars?  Contact me off-list to
give me your address.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York

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From greg at ciswired.com  Wed Mar  7 11:07:00 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103061953490.18931-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

MANY thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding the PDP-11
equipment I recently acquired.  I believe that I am well on my way to
being able to build a fairly substantial operating 11/44 museum piece.

I was able to open up the three RA81s and inspect them.  Luckily their
heads had all been locked in place.  Unfortunately, the belt release on
all were still set in "tension."  Hopefully this will be a minor
issue.

I powered up the RA81s, all power up and start spinning the platters.  I
have not allowed any of them to rotate fast enough to load the heads though -
I want to do a good cleaning first and get them situated in their
cabinets.

The three RL02s also all accept power and come on.  However, they
all illuminate their fault light when power is applied.  I cannot
remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their
controller - anyone?

Finally, I have two 1MB Standard Memories memory boards, a 256K
Standard Memories board, 2 DEC 256K memory boards, 1 DEC 1MB
memory board, and 1 512K National Semiconductor memory board (see below).
All these are 11/44 memories.

Does anyone have CSR/etc. DIP switch settings for the Standard Memories
and/or Nat. Semi boards?  I can't find anything on the 'net and I
have no other documentation.

Thanks!

greg

p.s.  The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange.  It has an area of
16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e  64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB).  No matter
what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
fit into a 256/512/1MB size.  I ASSUME it's a .5MB
board, but what about the extra chips?

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18



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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Wed Mar  7 11:53:21 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:53:21 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Fred's Ultrix-11 now in the UNIX Archive
Message-ID: <200103070153.f271rL837045@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article <7263E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC30A8A9F at mwnt4.microwalt.nl>,
        "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen at MicroWalt.NL> writes:
> Here is a quick snippet I just wrote up while loading my distribution on
> a test system.  This file will be cleaned up,
> enriched and so on and included in the next release.
> Fred
 
The UNIX Archive now has Fred's distributions and his setup.txt in
the PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Fred-Ultrix3 directory:
    
total 17328
-rw-r--r--  1 wkt  pupsarc       892 Mar  7 01:30 README.ult11-3.0
-rw-r--r--  1 wkt  pupsarc      1663 Mar  6 12:36 README.ult11-3.1
-rw-r--r--  1 wkt  pupsarc     25497 Mar  7 12:53 setup-3.1.txt
-rw-r--r--  1 wkt  pupsarc   6680997 Mar  7 06:33 ult11-3.0-kit.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 wkt  pupsarc  10988112 Mar  7 06:52 ult11-3.1-kit.tar.gz

http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/archive_access.html

        Warren

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From bqt at update.uu.se  Wed Mar  7 18:54:48 2001
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:54:48 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103061953490.18931-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103070953570.28370-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote:

> The three RL02s also all accept power and come on.  However, they
> all illuminate their fault light when power is applied.  I cannot
> remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their
> controller - anyone?

Yes, they will turn on the fault light if not connected to a controller.

> p.s.  The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange.  It has an area of
> 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e  64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB).  No matter
> what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> fit into a 256/512/1MB size.  I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> board, but what about the extra chips?

ECC?

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Wed Mar  7 18:51:42 2001
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:51:42 GMT
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
In-Reply-To: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg@ciswired.com>
        "[pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system" (Mar  6, 20:07)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103061953490.18931-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>
Message-ID: <10103070851.ZM23908@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 6, 20:07, Gregory R. Travis wrote:

 The three RL02s also all accept power and come on.  However, they
> all illuminate their fault light when power is applied.  I cannot
> remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their
> controller - anyone?

Yes, that's what happens if either the terminator or the controller is not
connected.

> p.s.  The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange.  It has an area of
> 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e  64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB).  No matter
> what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> fit into a 256/512/1MB size.  I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> board, but what about the extra chips?

Is it ECC memory?

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York

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From greg at ciswired.com  Wed Mar  7 22:59:46 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:59:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D32@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103070756400.21204-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> > p.s.  The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange.  It has an area of
> > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e  64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB).  No matter
> > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> > fit into a 256/512/1MB size.  I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> > board, but what about the extra chips?
> 
> FastECC or parity, most likely... usually two or three bits per
> word... 256K x 18.

Thought about that too but the math doesn't work.  40+64 chips = 104
chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits.

6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38

greg

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18




From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Thu Mar  8 04:36:02 2001
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:36:02 +0100 
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D39@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>

Greg,

> Thought about that too but the math doesn't work.  40+64 chips = 104
> chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits.
> 
> 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38
Right... 12 bits of ECC seems a bit much.  Dunno what that stuff is
about... weird! ;)

Fred


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From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Thu Mar  8 07:15:48 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:15:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
Message-ID: <200103072115.NAA15151@chiton.ucsd.edu>

> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg at ciswired.com>
> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
> 
> 
> p.s.  The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange.  It has an area of
> 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e  64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another
> area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB).  No matter
> what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to
> fit into a 256/512/1MB size.  I ASSUME it's a .5MB
> board, but what about the extra chips?

Nat.Semi. used to make ECC memory boards for the PDP11.

I had one once, it looks like you have one now.  My arithmetic says 5
extra bits per 8-bit byte makes for single-error correcting, dual-error
detecting ECC on the byte level.  Vaxes do it with 39 bits per 32-bit
word, Alphas do it with 72 bits per 64-bit word.  Economy of scale.

As I remember, you could just ignore the ECC and it would work like
a standard parity memory board, except that it very rarely had any
parity errors.

    carl

        carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
        {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl                 cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu
                                                  clowenstein at ucsd.edu

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From pete at dunnington.u-net.com  Thu Mar  8 08:10:25 2001
From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 22:10:25 GMT
Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system
In-Reply-To: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg@ciswired.com>
        "RE: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system" (Mar  7,  7:59)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103070756400.21204-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>
Message-ID: <10103072210.ZM24280@indy.dunnington.u-net.com>

On Mar 7,  7:59, Gregory R. Travis wrote:

> Thought about that too but the math doesn't work.  40+64 chips = 104
> chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits.
>
> 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38

It divides by 13, though (64K x 13 x 8, so the prime factors are 2 and 13).
 Unlikely as it sounds, could this be for a 12-bit word machine?

13 is not only 12+1, it's 8+5.  5 is a common number of bits for ECC
(though not, I admit, for 8-bit words!  Usually it's 8+3, 16+5, or 16+6).

It also strikes me as odd that a NatSemi board should have TI chips on it.
 NatSemi made their own RAM, and Texas made their own PDP-11 and Vax memory
boards.

-- 

Pete						Peter Turnbull
						Network Manager
						Dept. of Computer Science
						University of York


From iking at killthewabbit.org  Sun Mar 11 18:28:33 2001
From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 00:28:33 -0800
Subject: [pups] Building v6 on a PDP-11/34
Message-ID: <000e01c0aa05$42c37cc0$450010ac@dawabbit>

I'd been having a weird problem trying to compile mkconf.c, as a first step toward rebuilding 6th Ed, and someone suggested that it might be a memory problem.  I dug out the XXDP disks I have, ran some diagnostics, and discovered that my illusions about my memory were ill-founded.  :-)  Fortunately, I had another MOS memory card, which I configured and installed.  Now cc completes with no problems, and I rebuilt the system!  It was weird that the system seemed to run fine, but a defect somewhere in the second 64k was causing a failure in cc.  

Of course, there's always a challenge.  Now I'm trying to build/install a filesystem on my big Plessey DD-11/80 drives; they seem something like an RP04, and use the CDC 9877 diskpacks, if anyone's heard of them.  I built my kernel using the hp driver, and that doesn't seem to work with it.  -- Ian 
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From jss at ou.edu  Sun Mar 11 23:55:47 2001
From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 07:55:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <984318947.3aab83e340d11@email.ou.edu>

> > * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a
> > TU10 or TU16.  Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the
> > question?  How is a TE16 different from a TU16?
> 
> They don't differ.

Would v6 support a MASSBUS TE16/TM03 combination then?  If not, what would
I need for the TE16 to get it to work with v6?

--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss at ou.edu

"One World, One Web,   One Program" - Microsoft advertisement
"Ein Volk,  Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer"  - Adolf Hitler

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From bqt at update.uu.se  Mon Mar 12 00:40:05 2001
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 15:40:05 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] Introducing myself (long)
In-Reply-To: <984318947.3aab83e340d11@email.ou.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103111537540.21007-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Sun, 11 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote:

> > > * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a
> > > TU10 or TU16.  Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the
> > > question?  How is a TE16 different from a TU16?
> > 
> > They don't differ.
> 
> Would v6 support a MASSBUS TE16/TM03 combination then?  If not, what would
> I need for the TE16 to get it to work with v6?

If it supports the TU16 it also supports the TE16. I can't even remmeber
if there were any physical differences between the two. The TM03 is the
same.

For all purposes, when you read TU16, think TE16/TE16 and vice versa.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Tue Mar 13 14:19:17 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:19:17 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] c68 compiler for PDP-11?
Message-ID: <200103130419.f2D4JH369670@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

Before I dive in and attempt this, has anybody ported the c68 C
compiler to the PDP-11 family?

http://www.itimpi.freeserve.co.uk/compsrc.htm

Cheers,
        Warren


From greg at ciswired.com  Thu Mar 15 00:28:41 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
In-Reply-To: <200103130419.f2D4JH369670@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103140915350.3813-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

I've got an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS controller on my 11/44.  I'm virtually certain
it emulates a TS11.

It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives.  It has two
cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2.

I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a
DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83.  Works fine.   Now I'd like to use
the drive to bootstrap the 11/44.

The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons.  Sure enough,
the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful
world, eh?)

However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin!

Anyone have any insight into what's going on here?  Isn't a Pertec
interface a Pertec interface?  Or is the DigiData using some kind of
proprietary (to DigiData) interface?

thanks,

greg

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18



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From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Thu Mar 15 02:52:58 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:52:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
Message-ID: <200103141652.IAA11048@chiton.ucsd.edu>

> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg at ciswired.com>
> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
> 
> It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives.  It has two
> cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2.
> 
> I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a
> DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83.  Works fine.   Now I'd like to use
> the drive to bootstrap the 11/44.
> 
> The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons.  Sure enough,
> the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful
> world, eh?)
> However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin!

Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively?

> Anyone have any insight into what's going on here?  Isn't a Pertec
> interface a Pertec interface?  Or is the DigiData using some kind of
> proprietary (to DigiData) interface?

For what it's worth, there were two distinctly different "Pertec"
interfaces.  They might be called Early Pertec and Late Pertec.
For Early Pertec, the eventual cable breakout to the drives went
to three connectors, Read data, Write data, and Control.  Possibly
the AVIV controller was meant to be used with a custom cable set
to match a "three-connector" drive.

    carl

        carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                  clowenstein at ucsd.edu

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From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Thu Mar 15 02:58:28 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:28 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller 
Message-ID: <200103141658.IAA11108@chiton.ucsd.edu>

> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg at ciswired.com>
> To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
> 
> I've got an AVIV TFC-825 UNIBUS controller on my 11/44.  I'm virtually certain
> it emulates a TS11.
> 
> It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives.  It has two
> cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2.
> 
> I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a
> DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83.  Works fine.   Now I'd like to use
> the drive to bootstrap the 11/44.
> 
> The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons.  Sure enough,
> the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful
> world, eh?)
> 
> However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin!

Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively?  Most
of the connecting cables for tape drives used twisted-pair ribbon
cable.

> Anyone have any insight into what's going on here?  Isn't a Pertec
> interface a Pertec interface?  Or is the DigiData using some kind of
> proprietary (to DigiData) interface?

For what it's worth, there were two "standard" Pertec interfaces.
I think of them as Early Pertec and Late Pertec.  Late Pertec is
the two 50-pin cables.

Early Pertec connected to the drive with three cables, Read data,
Write data, and Control.  Usually there was a custom cable set
that broke out to three cables from the connectors on the controller.

    carl

        carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                  clowenstein at ucsd.edu

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From greg at ciswired.com  Thu Mar 15 04:14:39 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:14:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
In-Reply-To: <200103141652.IAA11048@chiton.ucsd.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103141305380.23323-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Carl Lowenstein wrote:

> > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 09:28:41 -0500 (EST)
> > From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg at ciswired.com>
> > To: pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
> > Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
> > 
> > It appears to support Pertec formatted tape drives.  It has two
> > cable interfaces, labeled Pertec P1 and Pertec P2.
> > 
> > I currently have a DigiData Pertec formatted 9-track drive plugged into a
> > DigiData controller on my QBUS 11/83.  Works fine.   Now I'd like to use
> > the drive to bootstrap the 11/44.
> > 
> > The DigiData drive's cables are both 49-pin ribbons.  Sure enough,
> > the DigiData controller's cable headers are also 49-pin (what a wonderful
> > world, eh?)
> > However, the AVIV controller's cable headers are 59-pin!
> 
> Are you sure those numbers aren't 50 and 60, respectively?

You're absolutely right.  I just read the pin #s off the boards
next to the connector.  They printed 49 and 59 but, of course, there's
the other row of pins.

> For what it's worth, there were two distinctly different "Pertec"
> interfaces.  They might be called Early Pertec and Late Pertec.
> For Early Pertec, the eventual cable breakout to the drives went
> to three connectors, Read data, Write data, and Control.  Possibly
> the AVIV controller was meant to be used with a custom cable set
> to match a "three-connector" drive.

I >THINK< I've got that covered.  The "early pertec", as I recall, are
also referred to as unformatted and consist, as you say, of three cables.
I've got a Western Digital UNIBUS TM11 controller that uses three
cables.

The later pertec are referred to as formatted and consist of just two cables.
My DigiData controllers use just two cables to my DigiData drive.

Now this AVIV controller has TWO connectors along its top.  That's for
sure.  But the connectors have each got more pins than the DigiData
controllers do.  As you say, I guess it's possible that the AVIV is
actually an unformatted controller that takes two "large" cables/connectors
and breaks them out later into three smaller cables/connectors.

But that would truly suck.

greg

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18



From greg at ciswired.com  Sat Mar 17 05:37:53 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:37:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103141305380.23323-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103161437160.18920-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling?  Here's
what I have:

RA81 disk drive with two big black cables coming out of it, one for
each port (A/B).  The cables terminate at the drive on one end and
at a small metal box on the other end.  The small metal box has
two sockets on it (denoted with "*" in the picture below):

                       Small metal box
                          /
+----------+  "A" cable  /
| RA81     |------------[]*
| Drive    |------------[]*
+----------+  "B" cable


UDA50 controller in 11/44 with four sets of orange cables coming out
of it and terminating in a four-port socket set (denoted "*" in picture
below) in a larger metal box at the back of the cabinet:

                        Larger metal box
                         /
                        /
                     *[]_________
                     *[]_________\
                     *[]_________\\  <- Four (4) Cable groups
                     *[]_________\\\
                                 \\\\
                             ----------
                             | UDA50  |
                             |        |
                             ----------

What I have tried:
	I unscrewed the black cables from the small metal box
	and plugged one of them directly into one of the ports on
	the larger metal box:


+----------+  "A" cable  
| RA81     |----------------|
| Drive    |----------[]*   |
+----------+  "B" cable     |
                           /   Larger metal box
                          /      /
                          |     /
                          |-*[]_________
                            *[]_________\
                            *[]_________\\  <- Four (4) Cable groups
                            *[]_________\\\
                                        \\\\
                                     ----------
                                     | UDA50  |
                                     |        |
                                     ----------


That didn't work (I tried it with two different drives and cable sets).
The operating system (2.11BSD) sees the UDA50 but does not see the drive
(which is spun up and "ready").

I did a little searching on the internet and found a couple of
cryptic discussions.  What I surmised from the discussions was that you
cannot directly connect the drive cable to the bulkhead box on the
computer cabinet.  It seems you need a third cable to act as an
intermediary as such:

                      Small metal box
                         /
+----------+  "A" cable / 
| RA81     |----------[]*---|  
| Drive    |----------[]*   | <--- New THIRD ("external?") cable
+----------+  "B" cable     |
                           /   Larger metal box
                          /      /
                          |     /
                          |-*[]_________
                            *[]_________\
                            *[]_________\\  <- Four (4) Cable groups
                            *[]_________\\\
                                        \\\\
                                     ----------
                                     | UDA50  |
                                     |        |
                                     ----------


Is that right?  If so, where can I find one of these external cables and/or
is it possible to manufacture one from a bit of ribbon cable an a
couple of commonly available plugs?  The sockets denoted by "*" appear to
be AMD bastardizations of common PC board plugs like the ones one would
find connecting a console port plug.

Thanks!

greg

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18




From bqt at update.uu.se  Mon Mar 19 20:01:30 2001
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:01:30 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103161437160.18920-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103191058230.23467-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote:

> Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling?  Here's
> what I have:

You got it right by the end. You need a third external cable.
The SDI-cables are always crossed, which means you always need an odd
number of cables.

Where to get the cables? COMPAQ if you can pay for them. Other sites that
are throwing out their stuff if you definitely don't want to pay. Some
dealer in used equipment is a third alternative. Ask anywhere where you
might expect to find SDI disks.

I wouldn't try to build that cable...

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Tue Mar 20 02:48:57 2001
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:48:57 +0100
Subject: [pups] Update on Ultrix-11 V3.1 progress
Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>

All,

This was a private message to Bill Gunshannon (my oh-so-evil partner in
Ultrix crime) but it occurred to me that it might actually be of interest
to some of you, so....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update.
I have done some work on the hardware here (mostly: getting the VS2000
back up, so I could re-format all RDxx drives I have here) and ended up
with getting some more workable disks.  The 11/83 now has an internal
RD54 (/user1: 145MB :) and external TL50 plus external RD53.

I did a full tape load on it, and now have a new "original" Ultrix-11
system.  I already have about 5 RX50 diskettes full of stuff I added
to the system- will all be in the V3.1(2) release.

More important, I have started work on the Ultrix-11 source tree. I want
to be able to re-generate the _entire_ system from scratch (sources), so
I can optionally do it on a VAX or Alpha with GCC-plus-PDP11 backend.

This is taking some time... the whole system _assumes_ many things about
the fact that it is probably Ultrix-11 itself.  I now run with a /usr that
is fully RO (mounted RO), and it is amazing to see how often I get warnings
and erros on that fact while compiling the sources :)

So, basically, I am relativizing the source tree so that it is
self-containing,
can live anywhere in the file tree (/user1/srckit in my case) and that it
moves
stuff to a BINKIT (/user1/binkit in my case) tree when it is done, rather
than
overwriting system files.

To be continued...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

And an update to that: seems to work now... system is recompiling itself as
we
speak/type.  Once that works, this get very easy for me :)

I'll post some of the README files I keep updated in the next message
here...

Cheers,
	Fred


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From wkb at freebie.demon.nl  Tue Mar 20 04:07:19 2001
From: wkb at freebie.demon.nl (Wilko Bulte)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:07:19 +0100
Subject: [pups] Update on Ultrix-11 V3.1 progress
In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>; from Fred.van.Kempen@microwalt.nl on Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:48:57PM +0100
References: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>
Message-ID: <20010319190719.A1142@freebie.demon.nl>

On Mon, Mar 19, 2001 at 05:48:57PM +0100, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Update.
> I have done some work on the hardware here (mostly: getting the VS2000
> back up, so I could re-format all RDxx drives I have here) and ended up
> with getting some more workable disks.  The 11/83 now has an internal
> RD54 (/user1: 145MB :) and external TL50 plus external RD53.

Good, I guess the drive worked then?

Wilko
-- 
|   / o / /  _  	 Arnhem, The Netherlands    	email: wilko at freebsd.org
|/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte	 http://www.freebsd.org 	http://www.nlfug.nl


From jss at ou.edu  Tue Mar 20 17:30:38 2001
From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:30:38 -0600
Subject: [pups] Cabinet Questions
Message-ID: <041601c0b10f$a919a5b0$0a01a8c0@station1>

Many thanks to those of you who have answered my previous questions.  I have
obtained the 1976 peripherals manual, and have read just enough to bring up
the next set of questions.  This round is about cabineting.

In the peripherals manual, the H960 cabinet comes in two models: the -C and
the -D.  The -D model has a sliding drawer in the lower half of the cabinet
that provides space for 9 "system units".  What are these "system units"?
How big are they?  What goes there?  When do you need the -D model?

Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/70 system with a TE16/TM03 (in its
own cabinet, I guess), a TU56/TC11, a paper tape reader/punch (PC11?), 3 or
4 RK05s, and 1 or 2 RP04s.  What set of cabinets do I need for this system?
Assume the CPU has the SETASI memory upgrades and not core.

Una vez mas... Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/40 system with the
same peripherals as above minus the RP04s and with a TU10/TM11 as the
9-track.  What kind of cabineting do I need here?  Assume the CPU has MOS
memory and not core.

I've got guesses, but I'd like to keep them private to save myself the
embarassment. :-)

Finally, how much weight can a H960 support?

--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss at ou.edu

"One World, One Web, One Program" -- Microsoft advertisement
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" -- Adolf Hitler



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From jss at ou.edu  Tue Mar 20 19:01:35 2001
From: jss at ou.edu (Jeffrey S. Sharp)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 03:01:35 -0600
Subject: [pups] PDP-11/70 Front Panel
Message-ID: <003501c0b11c$5ddae0c0$0a01a8c0@station1>

I will be picking up a PDP-11/70 in a few weeks, but it needs a front panel.
If anybody has an extra, please e-mail me.

--
Jeffrey S. Sharp
jss at ou.edu




From cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu  Wed Mar 21 06:36:22 2001
From: cdl at mpl.ucsd.edu (Carl Lowenstein)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:36:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] Cabinet Questions
Message-ID: <200103202036.MAA04870@chiton.ucsd.edu>

> From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss at ou.edu>
> To: "PUPS Mailing List" <pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> Subject: [pups] Cabinet Questions
> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:30:38 -0600
> 
> In the peripherals manual, the H960 cabinet comes in two models: the -C and
> the -D.  The -D model has a sliding drawer in the lower half of the cabinet
> that provides space for 9 "system units".  What are these "system units"?
> How big are they?  What goes there?  When do you need the -D model?

A system unit (SU) was the fundamental hardware building block of an
11/20 and many subsequent PDP's.  It was a frame 16.5 inches by 2.25
inches that held 3 blocks of dual card sockets.  Each socket block was
nominally 5.25 inches by 2.00 inches and could hold four "dual" cards
spaced at 0.5-inch intervals.  Thus the whole SU could hold four "quad"
cards plus two "dual" Unibus connectors in its four rows by six
sockets.  Later production included a double-wide system unit that
could hold nine cards.

Typical things that came built into one SU include 4kW (8kB) of core
memory and RK05 disk controllers.  There were also SU's that were
pre-wired to hold four Small Peripheral Controllers (SPC's).  Typical
SPC's included single-line serial interfaces, and line-printer controllers.

Think of the H906-D as an 11/40 or 11/45 without any backplane or cards.

> Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/70 system with a TE16/TM03 (in its
> own cabinet, I guess), a TU56/TC11, a paper tape reader/punch (PC11?), 3 or
> 4 RK05s, and 1 or 2 RP04s.  What set of cabinets do I need for this system?
> Assume the CPU has the SETASI memory upgrades and not core.
> 
> Una vez mas... Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/40 system with the
> same peripherals as above minus the RP04s and with a TU10/TM11 as the
> 9-track.  What kind of cabineting do I need here?  Assume the CPU has MOS
> memory and not core.

I think you could put that system into two H960 racks.  Figure 1/2 of a
rack for the 11/40, 1/3 of a rack for the TU10.  RK05, PC11, TU56 each
take up 1/6 of an H960.  With MOS memory you should have plenty of room
in the 11/40 frame itself for the necessary one-SU controllers for
RK05, TU56.  Especially if you take out the 2-SU frame that originally
held the core memory.  I'm not sure where you put the TM11, I never
actually had a real one, just emulated controllers that fit in one SU.

> Finally, how much weight can a H960 support?

Probably 500 or 600 pounds.  If you can, look for the older H960's with
welded frames rather than pop rivets.

    carl
-- 
        carl lowenstein         marine physical lab     u.c. san diego
                                                  clowenstein at ucsd.edu


From greg at ciswired.com  Fri Mar 23 05:37:26 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:37:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103221425150.31709-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44
memory boards?  I have a collection of third-party boards
(nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on
them.

I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743)
boards (of which I also have a few but no docos).

I'm also looking for DZ11 (M7819) IRQ/CSR switch settings.

Thanks!

greg

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18



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From kbd at ndx.net  Fri Mar 23 17:08:43 2001
From: kbd at ndx.net (kbd)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:08:43 -0800
Subject: [pups] 211 install questions/probs
In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>
Message-ID: <HFEPIJEEKKDEGOFFHBLEKEBGCHAA.kbd@ndx.net>


Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the:

ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/

directory? I've built the tape as described in the readme file
and went back can checked it with a hexdump and it appears correct.
Tried booting with the sputnik and E11 sims with no luck:

PDP-11 simulator V2.3d
sim> set cpu 1m
sim> at tm0 c:\211.tape
sim> b tm0
000002 (HALT)
sim>

I've been able to boot other tape images with no problem. Any ideas
would be very appreciated.

Kirk

ps - A dump of the boot tape FTP'd or Email'd would be very-very
appreciated.


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From kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk  Fri Mar 23 18:42:08 2001
From: kevin at xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk (Kevin Murrell)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:42:08 -0000
Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1
Message-ID: <ODEGIBMIBMEHMAMOEIODGEMPCFAA.kevin@xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk>

I am using an 11/83 with an Emulex UC07 Qbus-SCSI card.  At present I have a
Seagate ST4767N disk attached.  The emulex card emulating an MSCP drive I
believe.

I am sure I could also find a higher capacity drive without too much effort.

Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best from
my setup.  I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that
works.

I could physically attach a drive with a much higher capacity than DEC ever
envisaged, but which drive do I 'pretend' I am using.

Many thanks



Kevin Murrell


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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Fri Mar 23 18:44:24 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:44:24 +1100 (EST)
Subject: [pups] 211 install questions/probs
In-Reply-To: <HFEPIJEEKKDEGOFFHBLEKEBGCHAA.kbd@ndx.net> from kbd at "Mar 22,
 2001 11:08:43 pm"
Message-ID: <200103230844.f2N8iPV18979@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

In article by kbd:
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
> 
> Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the:
> 
> ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/
> 
> PDP-11 simulator V2.3d
> sim> set cpu 1m
> sim> at tm0 c:\211.tape
> sim> b tm0
> 000002 (HALT)
> sim>
> 
> I've been able to boot other tape images with no problem. Any ideas
> would be very appreciated.
> Kirk

Did you use makesimtape to create the tape image? If not, that's
probably the problem.

Cheers,
	Warren

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From jp at spektr.eu.org  Sat Mar 24 00:34:02 2001
From: jp at spektr.eu.org (=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Pehrson?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:34:02 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103221425150.31709-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103231451430.87609-100000@spektr.eu.org>

On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote:

> Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44
> memory boards?  I have a collection of third-party boards
> (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on
> them.
> 
> I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743)
> boards (of which I also have a few but no docos).

Couldn't find the manual for the M8743, but I managed to dig up the manual
for the M8722, MS11-M. Let me know if you want the settings for this
board instead.

> I'm also looking for DZ11 (M7819) IRQ/CSR switch settings.

I looked really hard on our internal network for an electronic copy of
this manual but I couldn't find it so I'll try to make an ACSII drawing of
it..

[From Communications Options Minireference Manual, EK-CMIV2-RM-005]

--------------------------------
|      W1 o-o                _  |
|                           | / |
|                           ||  |
|   ____                 J1 ||  |
|  |____|           ___     |_\ |
|    E81    ____   |___|        |
|          |____|    E11        |
|            E52                |
|                               |
|___||_____||_____||____||______|

Switch pack E11:
[Use 1-6 on the switch pack to set the vector]

S7  S6  S5  S4  S3  S2    Vector address
    off off               300
    off off         off   310
    off off     off       320
    off off     off off   330
    off off off           340
    off off off     off   350
    off off off off       360
    off off off off off   370
off                       400
                          ---
off     off               500
                          ---
off off                   600
                          ---
off off off               700

Note: Switch OFF produces logical "one" on the Unibus    .


W1: Normally in. Out disables master clk for factory testing.
[W1: Jumper just above switch pack E72]


E81 (Switch pack to the left of the card, device address selection):

S10 S9  S8  S7  S6  S5  S4  S3  S2  S1  Device address
                                    on  760010
                                on      760020
                                on  on  760030
                            on          760040
                            on      on  760050
                            on  on      760060
                            on  on  on  760070
                        on              760100
                                          --
                    on                  760200
                                          --
                    on  on              760300
                                          --
                on                      760400
                                          --
                on      on              760500
                                          --
                on  on                  760600
                                          --
                on  on  on              760700
                                          --
            on                          761000
                                          --
        on                              762000
                                          --
        on  on                          763000
                                          --
    on                                  764000


The DZ11 resides in floating address space
o Device address ranks 8
o Vector address ranks 27

-- 
Jörgen Pehrson  jp at spektr.eu.org  http://spektr.eu.org/~jp/
-----------------------------------------------------------
"i must say the linux community is a lot nicer than the unix
community. a negative comment on unix would warrent death
threats. with linux, it is like stirring up a nest of butterflies."
             -- Ken Thompson. 1999


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From greg at ciswired.com  Sat Mar 24 01:14:57 2001
From: greg at ciswired.com (Gregory R. Travis)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:14:57 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103231451430.87609-100000@spektr.eu.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103231014130.1586-100000@weasel.ciswired.com>

On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, [iso-8859-1] J�rgen Pehrson wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44
> > memory boards?  I have a collection of third-party boards
> > (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on
> > them.
> > 
> > I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743)
> > boards (of which I also have a few but no docos).
> 
> Couldn't find the manual for the M8743, but I managed to dig up the manual
> for the M8722, MS11-M. Let me know if you want the settings for this
> board instead.

Yeah, if you could.  Haven't heard anything from anyone else on the
M8743.  Thanks.

greg

Gregory Travis
Cornerstone Information Systems ATS
greg at ciswired.com
812 330 4361 ext. 18



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From kbd at ndx.net  Sat Mar 24 04:22:08 2001
From: kbd at ndx.net (kbd)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:22:08 -0800
Subject: [pups] 211 install questions/probs
In-Reply-To: <200103230844.f2N8iPV18979@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <HFEPIJEEKKDEGOFFHBLEIEBKCHAA.kbd@ndx.net>



>In article by kbd:
>> Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the:
>>
>> ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/
>>
>Did you use makesimtape to create the tape image? If not, that's
>probably the problem.

Thanks for the pointer Warren. For the record, makesimtape can
be found here:

ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Trees/2.11BSD/usr/src/sys/pdpstand/makesi
mtape.c

Kirk



From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Sat Mar 24 07:27:01 2001
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 22:27:01 +0100
Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1
Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A54@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>

Kevin,

> I am using an 11/83 with an Emulex UC07 Qbus-SCSI card.  At present I have
a
> Seagate ST4767N disk attached.  The emulex card emulating an MSCP drive I
> believe.
Nice, I have one too (an UC08, which is just a dual-port version of the '7).

> I am sure I could also find a higher capacity drive without 
> too much effort.
Yup.. come to Holland, attend one of the 6-weekly "dump" shows, and find
yourself
loaded with 1 and 2GB drives for a couple of bucks...

> Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best
from
> my setup.  I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that
> works.
Ultrix will think it is an RA81, most likely.  The controller will be seen
as
either an RQDX3 (MFM QBUS) or an UDA50 (MFM Unibus).  Never tried that, 'cos
the
controller is still on my "todo shelf".  Drives attached to either will
report
as RAxx'es... 

> I could physically attach a drive with a much higher capacity 
> than DEC ever envisaged, but which drive do I 'pretend' I am using.
I have a kernel with "RA99" compiled in.  That is a test for my experimental
support for Ultrix-32-like "partition tables" (/etc/chpt et al).  Works OK
so far...

Anyway.  Uhm, your drive most probably should work fine when referred to as
an RA81 on an RQDX or similar.. UDA50 comes to mind.

Cheers,
	Fred


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From bqt at update.uu.se  Sat Mar 24 08:43:20 2001
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:43:20 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1
In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A54@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103232340070.25398-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:

> Kevin,
> 
> > Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best
> from
> > my setup.  I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that
> > works.
> Ultrix will think it is an RA81, most likely.  The controller will be seen
> as
> either an RQDX3 (MFM QBUS) or an UDA50 (MFM Unibus).  Never tried that, 'cos
> the
> controller is still on my "todo shelf".  Drives attached to either will
> report
> as RAxx'es... 

Actually, the UDA-50 isn't MFM, it's SDI. The QBUS equivalent is the
KDA-50.

There is no MFM controller for Unibus. That is, no equivalent of the RQDXn
exists for Unibus.

Disks on the RQDXn reports as RDxx or RXxx, while disks on the [KU]DA-50
reports as RAxx (from a hardware point of view). They're both MSCP
controllers though.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol


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From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Sat Mar 24 10:16:13 2001
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:16:13 +0100
Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1
Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A55@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>

Johnny,

> Actually, the UDA-50 isn't MFM, it's SDI. The QBUS equivalent is the
> KDA-50.
Ahhh, i knew it was something-50 :)  Twas a while ago since I 
last touched a Unibus box.. can you tell? :)

> Disks on the RQDXn reports as RDxx or RXxx, while disks on 
> the [KU]DA-50
> reports as RAxx (from a hardware point of view). They're both MSCP
> controllers though.
Yup.  The UC0x talks MSCP (and/or TMSCP, if configured) on the Qbus
side, and SCSI on the device side.  I have an UC08 which is configured
for MSCP on bus 0, and TMSCP on bus1.  The attached Exabyte 8200 (2GB)
is seen as a giant TK50 :)

That was on the MVII, though.. havent used it since.  Was going to
put it in the 11/83, _if_ I can find a BA123. Anyone got one of those
laying around? :)

Cheers,
	Fred


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From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au  Mon Mar 26 12:14:44 2001
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 12:14:44 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [pups] New Release of VTserver program
Message-ID: <200103260214.f2Q2Ej738474@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>

All, I spent the weekend working on my VTserver program, which lets you
copy disk images in/out of a PDP-11 without a tape drive. It's at
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver

Could I get anybody with a PDP-11, 256Kbytes of core, and no tape drive
to try this out. I'm keen to find out which -11 models it does or doesn't
work on. Also, if you have less than 256Kbytes of core, please let me
know if you want Vtserver to run on your platform. If there's enough
interest, I'll try to rewrite the code to fit in a smaller footprint.

At present, Fred van Kempen is also working on adding VT support to
Ultrix-11. When he's done, we will do a merge of the server, and add
his Ultrix client code into a separate directory of the VT distribution.

Attached is some more blurb from the README.
	Warren

The Vtserver program provides you with a method of copying a disk image into
a PDP-11, or extracting a disk image from a PDP-11, without a tape drive or
indeed an installed operating system.

The approach here is use a nearby Unix or Linux computer as both the PDP-11
console and as a virtual tape server. The VTserver software comes as two
components: a set of PDP-11 software which acts as the virtual tape client,
and the server which is hosted on the nearby Unix machine. The two computers
are connected via an RS-232 null modem with hardware handshaking.

I've used the Ersatz-11 2.0 demo simulator with various
CPU models, and RL02 and RK05 disk images, to test copy. Here are the
results: copy can read and write disk images for /24, /34A, /40, /44, /45,
/70 and /94 systems when they have 256Kbytes of memory. It doesn't work for
the 11/35 as it doesn't have the MUL instruction, which the 2.11BSD C
compiler generates.


From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Tue Mar 27 20:17:35 2001
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:17:35 +0200
Subject: [pups] RE: Vtserver & 2.11 standalone progs
Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A80@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>

Robert and Warren,

Robert asks:
> Is Ultrix installable from Vtserver yet? It appears to be the only other
> version of unix that will work with MSCP disk drives, and maybe I'd have
> better luck with it than 2.11BSD. If you have any Ultrix utilities
> semi-running I'd be glad to test them for you!

and Warren replies:
> Robert, Fred van Kempen has been bashing his head on Ultrix with VT, but
> has been making progress over the past few days. I'll cc this e-mail to
> him and he can tell you the story :)
The status is as follows.  Feel free to relay onto the various newsgoups
and lists; I obviously lack the time to :)

- VTserver runs on my VAX (Ultrix-32 V4.4 and V4.5)
- Client code is now in Ultrix-11 V3.1

I can get VTserver to upload the primary boot loader to the PDP-11 (I test
with two.. a MicroPDP-11/23 and a MicroPDP-11/53) and that in turn makes
the box load the Boot: program.

When that is loaded, I can go two ways:

- type "install" and Boot: will load the RAM disk from the server, and
  switch to that.  Works.

- manually load and run programs.  Works.

The problem here, is, that Ultrix uses a very complicated memory setup,
which forces some MMU fiddling into all the drivers.  Warren's driver was
done for BSD and V7, which do not have this "problem".

I am now adding this MMU support to the driver, and that's the end of it..
all other parts work fine.

Here is a test run log.  Falafel is the VAX 3100.  My VTserver program
uploads the boot code to the (Micro-)PDP-11 if the "-o" option is given.

{falafel:~/ULT} $ vt -o
Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.3 $ 
stty cs8 -parenb 9600 clocal crtscts
Opening port /dev/tty01 ....  open
Sending PDP-11 Boot Code to uODT
........................................................................
[Enterring TERMINAL/SERVER mode. Escape with <ESC><ESC>]

VTS: Opened boot
 
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbb
bbbbb
Sizing Memory...  

To list options, type help then press <RETURN>

23Boot: vt(0,0)scat

VTS: Opened scat
VTS: Opened syscall
File: vt(0,0)contents

VTS: Opened contents
File 1:
        2 copies of magtape boots
File 5:
        This file (contents)
File 6:
        The program mkfs (make a ULTRIX-11 file system)
File 7:
        The program restor (restore a dump onto a file system)
File 8:
        The program dskinit (disk format and verify)
Filre 9:
        The program bads (scan disk for brams for memory disk (file system
image
)
File 14:
        rcmds: optional software loaded into ROOT (TAR image)
File 15:
|
V
File 31:
        ucmds: optional software loaded into /USR (TAR images)
File 32:
        sysgen: optional sorftware for re-loading sysgen (TAR image)
File 33:
        The ULTRIX-11 root file system in dump/restor format
File 34:
        The ULTRIX-11 /usr file system in dump/restor format
Exit called


23Boot: 
------------------------------------

The other commands work similarly.  I only need to revamp the MMU stuff,
and then I'm done and we can boot/install Ultrix-11 from VT !

--fred


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From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Wed Mar 28 07:18:40 2001
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:18:40 +0200
Subject: [pups] RE: Vtserver & 2.11 standalone progs
Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A86@mwnt4.microwalt.nl>

Guys,

> Robert, Fred van Kempen has been bashing his head on Ultrix with VT, but
> has been making progress over the past few days. I'll cc this e-mail to
> him and he can tell you the story :)
As of today, it is WORKING !
I just finished a (slooooow :) system load onto a MicroPDP-11/23.  Works
like a charm.. just takes a while.  Here is a log:

{falafel:~/ULT} $ vt -o
Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.3 $ 
stty cs8 -parenb 9600 clocal crtscts
Opening port /dev/tty01 ....  open
Sending PDP-11 Boot Code to uODT
........................................................................
[Enterring TERMINAL/SERVER mode. Escape with <ESC><ESC>]

VTS: Opened sas/boot
 
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
bbb
bbbbbb
Sizing Memory...  

To list options, type help then press <RETURN>

23Boot: install

Copying auto-install programs to memory disk...

VTS: Opened data/saprog.dsk
 
rrrRrRRRRRRRRRRrrRRRRRRRrRrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrr
rrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrr
100K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr
rrrr
rrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
200K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrRrrrrrrr
rrrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

       ****** ULTRIX-11 System Disk Load you need to answer some questions
about
your system's configuration. Enter your answer, using only lowercase
characters, then press <RETURN>. If you need help answering any of
the questions, enter a ? then press <RETURN>.


Press <RETURN> to continue:


                  ****** WARNING *ks must be converted to the new
1K block file system.

Proceed with the installation <y or n> ? y

Target processor is an 11/23 <y or n> ? y

CURRENT CPU = 11/23, TARGET CPU = 11/23

System disk type <? for help> ? y\yrd51


                ****** CAUTION ******

You must scan MSCP disks for bad blocks, type ?<RETURN> for help!

Scan system disk(s) for bad blocks <y or n> ? y

****** SCANNING SYSTEM DISK(s) FOR BAD BLOCKS ******


ULTRIX-11 MSCP Disk Initialization Program

Disk type < ra60 ra80 ra81 rx33 rx50 rd31 rd32 rd51 rd52 rd53 rd54 rc25 >:
rd51

Unit number < 0-3 >: 0

Starting block number < 0 >: 0

Number of blocks to check < 21600 >: 

READING...


21600 blocks checked
0 bad blocks found
0 bad blocks replaced

Exit called

****** BAD BLOCK SCAN COMPLETE ******


****** MAKING EMPTY (ROOT) FILE SYSTEM ******

File system size: 3730
Disk type: rd51
Processor type: 23
File system name: root
Volume name: sd_rd0
File system: rd(0,0)
isize = 2384
m/n = 1 72
Exit called

****** EMPTY FILE SYSTEM COMPLETED ******


****** RESTORING (ROOT) ONTO SYSTEM DISK ******

Input: vt(0,0)root

VTS: Opened data/root.dmp
 Disk: rd(0,0)

rRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrrrrrrrRrRrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrRrrrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrR
rRrR
rRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrRrrrr
rrrr
rRrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr
100K sent
[... deleted ...]
3600K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
rrrr
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr
rrrr
rrRrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrREnd of dump media

****** FILE SYSTEM RESTORE COMPLETE ******


****** CHECKING (ROOT) FILE SYSTEM ******

File: rd(0,0)
Salvage free list <y or n> ? n
rd(0,0):
files 305 (r=280,d=17,b=1,c=7,p=0,l=0)
used 3389 (i=182,ii=0,iii=0,d=3207)
free 190
missing 0

****** FILE SYSTEM CHECK COMPLETE ******


****** MAKING EMPTY (USR) FILE SYSTEM ******

File system size: 5934
Disk type: rd51
Processor type: 23
File system name: /usr
Volume name: sd_rd0
File system: rd(0,9700)
isize = 3792
m/n = 1 72
Exit called

****** EMPTY FILE SYSTEM COMPLETED ******


****** RESTORING (USR) ONTO SYSTEM DISK ******

Input: vt(0,0)usr

VTS: Opened data/usr.dmp
 Disk: rd(0,9700)

rRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrR
rRrR
rRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrR
rRrR
rrrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRr
100K sent
[... deleted ...]
5400K sent
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrRrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrr
RrRr
RrRrrrrrRrrrRrRrRrREnd of dump media

****** FILE SYSTEM RESTORE COMPLETE ******


****** CHECKING (USR) FILE SYSTEM ******

File: rd(0,9700)
Salvage free list <y or n> ? n
rd(0,9700):
files 619 (r=570,d=49,b=0,c=0,p=0,l=0)
used 4824 (i=228,ii=1,iii=0,d=4594)
free 872
missing 0

****** FILE SYSTEM CHECK COMPLETE ******


****** COPYING BOOT TO SYSTEM DISK BLOCK ZERO ******


****** BLOCK ZERO BOOT LOADED ******


****** BOOTING ULTRIX-11 SYSTEM TO SINGLE-USER MODE ******

Sizing Memory...  

23Boot: rd(0,0)unix    (CTRL/C will abort auto-boot)

rd(0,0)unix:
14784+17024+8192+8000+8064+8000+8064+8128+8000+7808+7936+7936+7680+
7360+1344
eráóe ½ äelete  ëill ½  U  iîtr ½  Ã Û
[Back to host.]

That's where the parity stuff bites us (see the dicussion regarding
2.11BSD :) but I'll fix that later.. its a make-up change, trivial.

Let's continue with Kermit:

{falafel:~/ULT} $ kermit
Connecting to /dev/tty01, speed 9600.
The escape character is ^\ (ASCII 28).
Type the escape character followed by C to get back,
or followed by ? to see other options.


This program performs operating system setup functions during
installation and normal system operation. Setup operates in one
of three possible modes (phases), depending on the current state
of the system. The three modes are:

 Phase 1: Initial setup -- prepares system for first sysgen.
 Phase 2: Final setup -- completes the system setup.
 Phase 3: Change setup -- handles system setup changes.

The program will ask several setup questions. Enter your answer
to each question, using lowercase characters, then press <RETURN>.

The questions include helpful hints enclosed in angle brackets < >
and/or parenthesis ( ). If you need additional help answering any
question, enter a ? or the word help then press <RETURN>.

You can correct typing mistakes by pressing the <DELETE> key to
erase a single character or <CTRL/U> to erase the entire line.
You can interrupt the setup program by typing <CTRL/C>. This
allows you to abort the setup process or restart it.

Press <RETURN> to continue: 

Is the console terminal a CRT (video terminal) <y or n> ? y

PLEASE CONFIRM: console is a VIDEO terminal <y or n> ? y

****** READING SETUP DATA FROM setup.info FILE ******

(vt(0,0)boot) - bad load device!


The initial setup program cannot obtain the information it needs
to complete the installation from the setup.info file. The sdload
program writes this information into the setup.info file after
loading the software onto the system disk. For some unknown reason
the setup program cannot access the information.

You can supply the missing information or abort the installation.
If you continue, the program will prompt you for the following:

    o  Setup phase number

    o  System disk type

    o  Target processor type

    o  Software load device type


Continue the installation <y or n> ? n


****** INITIAL SETUP ABORTED ******

You have the following options:

    o  Restart the installation procedure at the beginning.

    o  Execute the following steps to retry the initial setup:

           Halt the processor.
           Execute the hardware bootstrap for the system disk.
           The setup program should restart automatically, if
           it does not, execute: cd /.setup; setup.

    o  Contact the Telephone Support Center or your local DIGITAL
       software services office for assistance.


# 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

and that's where it currently ends.

I did already upgrade the root file system dump (hey.. I knew it was
working once it started load that one.. :) so the kernel is already up
to spec.  I also have updated versions of /etc/rdate and /bin/date on
it, so we can install using this era, and not go back to the early 70s :)

Problems to be fixed:

- icky parity stuff in VTserver (terminal mode) .. there are more problems
  with it.  I think the receive buffer can overflow if we are in the main
  server_loop() routine... causing us to loose characters on input.

- no kernel support for the VT device, so, past the initial load, we're
  still fucked, so to speak.  In other words.. Warren, sweetie.. should
  we change our priorities and do the kernel driver first, and THEN redo
  the protocol as discussed last night?

Cheers,
	Fred (**yawn** - 109 straight hours of coding :)



From cube1 at home.com  Sat Mar 31 13:38:04 2001
From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:38:04 -0600
Subject: [pups] Re: New Release of VTserver program
In-Reply-To: <200103282045.GAA92101@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi>

Well, I had mixed success on a PDP-11/24.

First off, a couple of bugs.

In vtserver.c in the code that loads the bootstrap via console odt, the "C" 
format strings have "%6o".  These need to be changed to "%6.6o" to make it 
work on my 11/24.  Otherwise you get leading spaces.

Also, the code that sends an entire ODT command in one "write()" fails.  I 
had to change that (and the one that sends the "G" command) into a loop 
where I wrote just one character, and then read back one character that the 
11/24 echoed.  Otherwise it just hung.

I suspect both of these changes would fix problems on some machines and 
would not harm any others.

So, I got around that, and the standalone loaded.  (Hooray)  But.....

When I tried to use my RK07 as input ( hk(0,0,0) , I got an error:  sc=1 
cs2=64 er=40  .  Upon examination,  HKCS1 bit 10 was indeed off (indicating 
an RK611 controller) whereas the RK07 bit for the drive at +12(octal) was 
set ON.  So, the error itself is not unreasonable.  But....

I looked at the code in hk.c, and tried it manually after resetting the 
machine, and the code should be getting the expected drive error when it 
first tries to address it as an RK06.  That should cause it to switch to 
thinking it is an RK07, but something is going haywire.  And, if I boot a 
pack, the boot code correctly figures out that it is an RK07 (when I look 
after it reads the boot block off of a garbage pack, Bit 10 in HKCS1 is 
indeed on).

So, my guess is that the code in hk.c is busted in some way.

Are there "2.11BSD for dummies under an emulator" instructions somewhere, 
so that I could hardwire hk.c to an RK07 temporarily?  Or, perhaps can 
someone point me to the physical memory addresses in hk.c so I could just 
patch the array to tell it I have 2 RK07's ahead of time, rather than 
having it attempt to auto-detect the drive type?

Haaaaaaaaaaaaalp  8~)

Jay Jaeger
---	
Jay R. Jaeger					The Computer Collection
cube1 at home.com			visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection


Received: (from major at localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10752
	for pups-liszt; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:55:53 +1000 (EST)
	(envelope-from owner-pups at minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

From robin at ruffnready.co.uk  Sat Mar 31 17:47:28 2001
From: robin at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:47:28 +0100
Subject: [pups] Re: New Release of VTserver program
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi>
References: <200103282045.GAA92101@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
 <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi>
Message-ID: <XPB0TIAQuYx6Ewac@ruffnready.co.uk>

In message <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0 at cirithi>, Jay Jaeger
<cube1 at home.com> writes
>Well, I had mixed success on a PDP-11/24.
>
>First off, a couple of bugs.
>
>In vtserver.c in the code that loads the bootstrap via console odt, the "C" 
>format strings have "%6o".  These need to be changed to "%6.6o" to make it 
>work on my 11/24.  Otherwise you get leading spaces.
>
>Also, the code that sends an entire ODT command in one "write()" fails.  I 
>had to change that (and the one that sends the "G" command) into a loop 
>where I wrote just one character, and then read back one character that the 
>11/24 echoed.  Otherwise it just hung.
>
>I suspect both of these changes would fix problems on some machines and 
>would not harm any others.
>
>So, I got around that, and the standalone loaded.  (Hooray)  But.....
>
>When I tried to use my RK07 as input ( hk(0,0,0) , I got an error:  sc=1 
>cs2=64 er=40  .  Upon examination,  HKCS1 bit 10 was indeed off (indicating 
>an RK611 controller) whereas the RK07 bit for the drive at +12(octal) was 
>set ON.  So, the error itself is not unreasonable.  But....
>
>I looked at the code in hk.c, and tried it manually after resetting the 
>machine, and the code should be getting the expected drive error when it 
>first tries to address it as an RK06.  That should cause it to switch to 
>thinking it is an RK07, but something is going haywire.  And, if I boot a 
>pack, the boot code correctly figures out that it is an RK07 (when I look 
>after it reads the boot block off of a garbage pack, Bit 10 in HKCS1 is 
>indeed on).
>
>So, my guess is that the code in hk.c is busted in some way.
>
>Are there "2.11BSD for dummies under an emulator" instructions somewhere, 
>so that I could hardwire hk.c to an RK07 temporarily?  Or, perhaps can 
>someone point me to the physical memory addresses in hk.c so I could just 
>patch the array to tell it I have 2 RK07's ahead of time, rather than 
>having it attempt to auto-detect the drive type?
>
Jay,
I don't know how to do this and I suspect that it would be very
difficult (someone PLEASE prove me wrong).  But, if you load it into an
emulator using another type of disk, say, an RP05 or RM05 that the
emulator can support, then you can play with hk.c to your heart's
content.  Then you can run the code out and test it on the PDP.

Cheers

Robin
>Haaaaaaaaaaaaalp  8~)
>
>Jay Jaeger
>---    
>Jay R. Jaeger                                  The Computer Collection
>cube1 at home.com                 visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollect
>ion
>

____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch     robin at ruffnready.co.uk

M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD     Old computers and radios always welcome

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