From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Thu Nov  2 08:29:35 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:29:35 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Canonical answer about getting v6 & v7 source
Message-ID: <9511012229.AA16683@dolphin>

Firstly, welcome to some new members of the old unix mailing list. If you don't
get this email, please let me know ;-)

I received an email back from Dennis Ritchie about getting a v6/v7 license
(for those who don't have one). Here is his full reply:

      From: Dennis Ritchie
      To: Warren Toomey
      Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:40:55 EST
      Subject: canonical answer about Sixth and Seventh Edition
      
      So far as I can determine, AT&T doesn't think it has the
      right to issue new licenses for any Unix editions, and won't
      do so.  Several years ago, the Unix IP was transferred to
      Unix Systems Laboratories, at first as a mostly-owned subsidiary;
      USL was then sold to Novell, and recently Novell agreed to
      sell its Unix business to SCO (and HP is partially involved).
      As of the end of October 1995 this last sale had not been
      consummated.
      
      In other words, AT&T is out of the Unix business, and has been
      for some time; any licenses will have to come from the current
      owner.  But the "current owner" is itself in flux, and I doubt that
      even before the latest sale, Novell was quite geared up to issue
      Seventh Edition licenses; I have no useful suggestions about
      how to obtain one officially (it might be interesting to try).
      
      Official sources in AT&T have said that they have no objection
      to reissuance of Lions's commentaries and source publication
      of the Sixth Edition.
      
      Dennis

So it doesn't look like good news at the moment; I guess we could approach
SCO and HP, and ask about trying to get licenses from them. I'll see what I
can do.

A few other people mentioned that they would like to get stuff from the
archive of early Unixes that I'm maintaining, and how to prove that they have
a license. I have no idea how to do this, any suggestions?

P.S There isn't a Sixth Edition in the archive as yet, can anyone send me a
distribution or bootable disk image?

Cheers all,

	Warren Toomey


From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Nov  3 09:21:10 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:21:10 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <9511022321.AA09085@dolphin>

hello


From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Nov  3 09:24:09 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:24:09 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Licensed PDP Unix Archive ftpable
Message-ID: <9511022324.AA09122@dolphin>

All,
	A few quick notes about the PDP Unix archive effort. Dennis has sent
in Fifth Edition, and both he and Ken Wellsch have sent in Sixth Edition.

	I've set up ftp access to the archive of licensed stuff. To get in,
email me and I will send you back a username/password plus details.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Thu Nov  9 15:02:51 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:02:51 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Another PDP Unix program
Message-ID: <9511090502.AA00022@dolphin>

Hi,
	Firstly, this old unix mailing list is damn quiet - I'm the only one
talking. If you have any questions, ideas etc., mail them to
oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au.

	I'm away all of next week for a holiday, but will be back after that.

	Steven Schultz has promised 2.11BSD for the PDP Unix archive, and
I'm also talking with Keith Bostic, as he has some stuff of interest.

	There is also a new PDP-11 simulator; this one runs a.out binaries
directly, and passes the syscalls directly to the native operating system.
You can pick it up at:

	ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz

If anybody can fix the bugs mentioned in the README, please let me know!

See you all again soon!

	Warren


From risner at heathers.stdio.com  Thu Nov  9 23:19:36 1995
From: risner at heathers.stdio.com (James Risner)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <199511091319.IAA02121@heathers.stdio.com>

Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?

Risner


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Thu Nov  9 20:19:12 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Disk image file --> RK05
Message-ID: <m0tDU4f-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


I posted this query to vmsnet.pdp-11 and alt.sys.pdp11, but following
Warren's complaint that noone was talking on oldunix at minnie I'll ask
you lot too ...

I have on my PC hard disk a couple of rk05 disk images (from Warren's
archive, naturally). Question is, how to get them onto a real rk05
... the real PDP beats the emulator any day after all ...

Naturally someone has workedout how to extract RK05 images to files to
put on the archive site. I'm wondering if anyone has solved the
reverse problem yet ...

I could split up the file into moderate sized pieces (say 250k, RX01
sized bits), boot the PDP (RT11) off RX01 floppy, start kermit and
transfer a file piece from the PC to the other PDP floppy drive. Then
I could mount a fresh RK05 pack, format etc. and run some crafty code
to write the file to the appropriate place on the 'raw' RK05 device.
What do you think?

Another correspondent mentioned that Kermit may be able to write to
"raw" devices directly, allowing me to transfer the file all in one
piece. I'm still waiting for confirmation of that -- seems a little
unlikely to me, but I've been suprised before.

My system is:

	11/34a
	1 x RK05 (2.5Mb removable type, RK05f I think - or is it j?)
	1 x RX01
	128Kword

As you can see, backing store is in short supply ;)

I'd sooner avoid writing too much Macro-11 at present, so if the
problem is already solved, I'd love to know how ...

Cheers,


Bob.


-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

       "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
        the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk  Fri Nov 10 04:11:19 1995
From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:11:19 GMT
Subject: Register of machines
Message-ID: <138@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Dear All,
I have just had a note from someone who wants to get RK05 stuff on to his
system but might be in a position where his current setup can't do it.

This sort of stuff might be helped if people submitted a register of what kit 
they have.  This could allow people in reasonable geographic location to help
each other out.  FOr instance, if some one had a unix system that an rk05 could
be plugged into then they could do this and then give the rk05's back once they
had the stuff copied over.

To start it off.  I have:

1*11/73 (1.5MByte)
2*RD54
1*DHV11
1*TK50

Running 2.11 BSD.

I also have 1*Compaq 386 (486 Cyrix chip)
running FreeBSD

I live in Gloucestershire UK and am willing to help anybody in copying stuff
that I can.  I can get access to 0.5inch mag tape RA60 and RL02 if necessary.

Cheers

Robin
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robin Birch    EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk                          |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Fri Nov 10 19:47:43 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
Message-ID: <m0tDq3k-00000KC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
require separate I+D space?

Cheers,


Bob.

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

       "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
        the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE  Fri Nov 10 20:23:55 1995
From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:55 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.0.815999035.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>

>
>It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
>separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
>suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
>require separate I+D space?

Steve Schoultz is really the one to answer this question, but I
seem to remember that BSD2.9 was the last version which worked
on non-I/D-space systems.

	Johnny


From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE  Fri Nov 10 20:23:03 1995
From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:03 +0100 (MET)
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.0.815998983.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>

>Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
>I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?

I think it should go there, anyway.

	Johnny


From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Sat Nov 11 02:46:36 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:46:36 -0800
Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
Message-ID: <199511101646.IAA18106@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Bob -

> From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
> 
> It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
> separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
> suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
> require separate I+D space?

	The last version of UNIX for the PDP11 which stood a chance of
	running on a non split machine was 2.9BSD.  I'd expect it to be
	a very tight fit though because even on a split I/D machine we
	ended up overlaying the kernel (but then even V7 took overlays
	to fit - which we hacked into the kernel, at least in the environment 
	here).  A long long time ago I did squish a V7 system into an 11/23 - 
	not a pretty sight, each command you ran caused the others on the 
	system to be swapped out (do a "ls -l" and watch the shell get swapped,
	when the 'ls' finished then the shell would be swapped back in, etc.)

	V6 would be a better match for a non-split (248kb max) machine.  By
	the time V7 was out the 11/70 was being used as the development 
	platform and split I/D was becoming more and more necessary.

	Steven Schultz
	sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com


From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Sat Nov 11 05:42:31 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 06:42:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.0.815998983.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> from "Johnny Billquist" at Nov 10, 95 11:23:03 am
Message-ID: <9511101942.AA12536@dolphin>

In atricle by Johnny Billquist:
> 
> >Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
> >I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?
> 
> I think it should go there, anyway.

What's its copyright? I'd love it, but I'll check with Doug first.

P.S Rewrote Xinu on ass. code for an Apple ][, pretty sick, huh :-)

See you all later,

	Warren


From sysyphus at crl.com  Wed Nov 15 12:02:41 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:02:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951114180137.26434C-100000@crl4.crl.com>


Greetings:
  I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that
I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's
or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11
but won't go with BSD or TSX, and no docs on it at all).
  I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were
a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from.
  Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain?

*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************



From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Wed Nov 15 16:13:24 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 22:13:24 -0800
Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199511150613.WAA21716@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Howdy -

> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> 
>   I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that
> I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's
> or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11

	The version of 2.9 I have dates from 1983 and lacks any support for 
	TMSCP and MSCP.

	Support for those came later, the initial 2BSD driver is dated
	September 1985 and has a comment to the effect it's based on the
	4.3BSD UDA driver, so 2.10 was likely the first inclusion of MSCP
	in a 2BSD kit.

	By the time of 2.10BSD the MSCP driver was definitely present.
	TMSCP support didn't make it in until 2.10.1BSD in 1989 - I know that 
	for sure 'cause I did the port.

>   I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were
> a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from.

	TK-50 support didn't enter the picture until 1989 and it's a real
	beast of a driver (not to mention the bootblock and standalone
	driver).

>   Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain?

	Unless you can find some one with a later 2.9BSD system into which
	the MSCP driver was hacked (doubtful but who knows) I think you're
	out of luck.  I seriously doubt you'll find a TK50 version of 2.9
	since that wasn't added until 2.10.1BSD.

	On a /73 you're probably _much_ better off installing 2.11BSD 
	(currently at rev #277) - it's due to enter the archive in Oz any
	day now (when Warren gets back from vacation).

	Steven Schultz
	sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov 15 20:17:13 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:17:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: mknod device numbers
Message-ID: <m0tFeu2-00000EC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.

Does anyone know the major and minor numbers offhand, or know the
source well enough to know where to find them? I've grepped the source
to no avail ...

Cheers,

Bob

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

       "I'd rather stay a child
        and keep my self respect,
        if being an adult
        means being like you"   Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO  Thu Nov 16 01:35:23 1995
From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <m0tFeu2-00000EC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.3.91.951115163146.12873C-100000@barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO>

On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote:

> v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
> distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
> RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.

This works for me, with v6:

# chdir /dev
# ls -l
total 0
crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 console
crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  1 May 14  1975 kmem
crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  0 May 14  1975 mem
crw-rw-rw-  1 bin     8,  2 May 14  1975 null
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  0 Oct 10  1975 rk0
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  1 Oct 10  1975 rk1
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  2 Oct 10  1975 rk2
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  3 Oct 10  1975 rk3
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  0 Nov  7 01:19 rrk0
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  1 Nov  7 01:19 rrk1
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  2 Nov  7 01:19 rrk2
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  3 Nov  7 01:19 rrk3
crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 tty8

Protection could be better, of course.  :-)

-tih
-- 
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO


From milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu  Thu Nov 16 03:22:22 1995
From: milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:22:22 -0600
Subject: mknod device numbers
Message-ID: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu>

Hi,
 All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the
device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab
structure in the kernel. This is probably something that can be divined by
running nm on the kernel, /unix ? (All this is from memory,  my annotated V6
kernel listing is buried at home right now.) But, I'd be surprised to see a V6
distribution that didn't have the rk drivers built in. Another thing to
watch out for is the rk driver, er, device names/numbers that interleaved a
file system across multiple drives.   


BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on  
my pdp11/34's and 11/44?

--Milo
---
Milo Velimirovic       <Milo.Velimirovic at uwlax.edu>
Unix Computer Network Administrator  (608) 785-8030
Information Technology, Operations and Networking
University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA    43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W



Begin forwarded message:
> 

> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET)
> From: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO>
> To: Bob Manners <rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
> Cc: OldUnix MailingList <oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: Re: mknod device numbers
> In-Reply-To: <m0tFeu2-00000EC at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 

> On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote:
> 

> > v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
> > distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
> > RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.
> 

> This works for me, with v6:
> 

> # chdir /dev
> # ls -l
> total 0
> crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 console
> crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  1 May 14  1975 kmem
> crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  0 May 14  1975 mem
> crw-rw-rw-  1 bin     8,  2 May 14  1975 null
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  0 Oct 10  1975 rk0
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  1 Oct 10  1975 rk1
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  2 Oct 10  1975 rk2
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  3 Oct 10  1975 rk3
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  0 Nov  7 01:19 rrk0
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  1 Nov  7 01:19 rrk1
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  2 Nov  7 01:19 rrk2
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  3 Nov  7 01:19 rrk3
> crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 tty8
> 

> Protection could be better, of course.  :-)
> 

> -tih
> -- 

> Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO
> 

> 



From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO  Thu Nov 16 06:57:59 1995
From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:57:59 +0100 (MET)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.3.91.951115213628.14251A-100000@barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO>

On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030 wrote:

> All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the
> device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab
> structure in the kernel.

True enough.  The example I gave was correct for the V6 distribution
that Ken Wellsch donated to the PUPS archive, and in which the file
/usr/sys/conf/c.c (generated by 'mkconf' in the same directory) ends
up with the following for the default "rkunix" with rk, tm and tc
drivers enabled, as per the script /usr/sys/run:

int     (*bdevsw[])()
{
        &nulldev,       &nulldev,       &rkstrategy,    &rktab, /* rk */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* rp */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* rf */
        &tmopen,        &tmclose,       &tmstrategy,    &tmtab, /* tm */
        &nulldev,       &tcclose,       &tcstrategy,    &tctab, /* tc */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* hs */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* hp */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* ht */
        0
};

int     (*cdevsw[])()
{
        &klopen,   &klclose,  &klread,   &klwrite,  &klsgtty,   /* console */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* pc */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* lp */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dc */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dh */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dp */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dj */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dn */
        &nulldev,  &nulldev,  &mmread,   &mmwrite,  &nodev,     /* mem */
        &nulldev,  &nulldev,  &rkread,   &rkwrite,  &nodev,     /* rk */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* rf */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* rp */
        &tmopen,   &tmclose,  &tmread,   &tmwrite,  &nodev,     /* tm */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* hs */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* hp */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* ht */
        0
};

The major device numbers are the offsets (counting from 0) in these
arrays, so rk has major 0 for the block device, 9 for the character
device.  I would assume that this holds for V6 in general -- if one
were to add device drivers, one would surely extend these arrays at
their ends, not insert anything into them...  :-)

-tih
-- 
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Fri Nov 17 20:32:24 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 10:32:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: 11/34 with RK05 emulation ??
Message-ID: <m0tGO5p-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


My 11/34 is currently down awaiting replacement of an RK05 head which
crashed rather painfully on Monday (the 13th !).

In the meantime, I'm trying to sort out a new UNIX image for it, using
an emulator on the PC. I have an 11/73 emulator for UNIX (Linux) with
RK05s, and an 11/34 emulator (E11) for DOS, which looks great, but
doesn't support RK05 yet. 

The 11/73 emulator runs the v5 and v6 images nicely. The question is,
will these images run on a *real* 11/34 without a floating point
board? The /73 and /34 MMUs are significantly different I believe.

Looking at the v6 docs, the system is claimed to run on the 11/40, /45
and /70, but the /34 was yet to be created at that time, so there is
no information about that!

I'd be very grateful of someone could either tell me of a /34 emulator
with RK05 image support, or confirm if v5/v6/v7 UNIX will run on:

	11/34a
	128Kw
	1xRK05

	no floating point
	no sep I+D (I guess)

Cheers,

Bob.



--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

      "There's more to life than books you know, but not much more"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Tue Nov 21 08:19:41 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:19:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> from "Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030" at Nov 15, 95 11:22:22 am
Message-ID: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin>

In atricle by Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030:
> 
> BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on  
> my pdp11/34's and 11/44?

Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these.
Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP,
we can ask them for an answer.

P.S Back from holidays, the machine minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au died (out of swap)
on Saturday, and I've just rebooted her, so the mailing list is back up.
I've also moved 2.11BSD into the ftp archive on henry.cs.adfa.oz.au. Thanks
to Steven Schultz for the copy.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Tue Nov 21 13:55:34 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 14:55:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: a.out simulator: PDP test progs?
Message-ID: <9511210355.AA16445@dolphin>

All,
	I am still bashing away at my v7 a.out simulator, available at
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz. I'm having a *$(&(#(@ of a time
getting it to work 100% correctly.

At the moment, I can compile 30 to 40% of the programs in /usr/src/cmd. It
seems that the assember isn't being simulated correctly. Nearly all the
other programs work fine.

Does anybody have any PDP-11 asm programs (preferably v7 Unix .s files)
that give the user mode a damn good flogging, and catch instructions and
addressing modes that are not working correctly :-)

Thanks all,

	Warren


From dave at esi.COM.AU  Tue Nov 21 21:49:00 1995
From: dave at esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:49:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951121224148.10757A-100000@eram.esi.com.au>

On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Warren Toomey wrote:

> Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these.
> Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP,
> we can ask them for an answer.

Ah yes, the classic Catch-22...

"How do I do this?"
"You need a licence."
"How do I get a licence?"
"Nobody knows."

With apologies to Milo Minderbinder...

And in the meantime. those of us who can't quite lay our hands upon
that piece of paper will just have to wait until Something Can Be Done.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU) | dave at esi.com.au | VK2KFU @ VK2DAA.NSW.AUS.OC | PGP 2.6
Opinions expressed are mine. | D8 15 71 F9 26 C8 63 40  5E 63 5C 65 FC A0 22 99



From sysyphus at crl.com  Wed Nov 22 16:06:51 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951121214923.2266B-100000@crl12.crl.com>

Greetings:
Woe is me.
I have been trying to resurrect Unix (BSD) on my venerable PDP-11/73.
It had an RL02, which has gone west.
It is running RT-11/TSX off an RD-54, and I would much like to run
BSD2.11 instead, for several reasons.
Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has
no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed
syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that"
-type errors, so I have given up.
This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could
build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I
need is either:
1. Someone who knows the secret to doing an addressable variable-
block-length transfer to a TMSCP device with RT-11; or
2. A bootable RL02 image of 2.11, wwhich would be a feat; or
3.A bootable RD5X image of same; or
4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape.
(Yes, I put eggs in my beer).

All leads appreciated. I *do* have surplus Q-bus hardware (except
for RL02 drives).
Cheers!
BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list?
*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************


From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Wed Nov 22 17:04:20 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:04:20 -0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Danny -

> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> 
> Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
> bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot

	Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
	records "bits as is" to tape?  No labeling, no nothing.

> seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has
> no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed
> syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that"

	Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:

		cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
		dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512

	Basically what you want to do is have two copies of the tapeboot
	block followed immediately by the boot program written to tape
	using 512 byte records.  Perhaps catenating the data together into
	1 temp file first would help and then write that file out all at
	one time.

	Once you have that data on tape you have a bootable TK50.  The
	other images (mkfs, restor, etc) can be put on separate tapes if
	need be and loaded one at a time.

	That will require some interpolation of the setup/installation
	documents but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

> This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could
> build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I

	Or TMSCP ;-(

> 4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape.
> (Yes, I put eggs in my beer).

	Bletch (to eggs in beer) ;-)

	TK50 tapes are excrutiatingly (sp) time consuming to write - I'm not
	sure where the problem is (other than the TK50 being about as smart
	and fast as a rock).  Reading them isn't too bad, but to write a full
	2.11 kit on TK50 took around 7 hours the last time I did it on a 11/73.

> BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list?

	Drop a line to Warren Toomey (wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au).

	Cheers and good luck.

	Steven


From sysyphus at crl.com  Thu Nov 23 11:17:39 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951122170747.28165A-100000@crl11.crl.com>

On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote:

> Danny -
> 
> > From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> > 
> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
> 
> 	Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
> 	records "bits as is" to tape?  No labeling, no nothing.
                      ------- snip ------ 
> 	Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:
> 
> 		cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
> 		dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512
> 
  First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.
  
  Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
  TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
  which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
  TK-50 (under RT-11).
  I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel-
  to -reel magtape.
  Anybody know where I can find one ? :=)
*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************


From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk  Thu Nov 23 17:55:16 1995
From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 07:55:16 GMT
Subject: your mail
Message-ID: <143@falstaf.demon.co.uk>


>   First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.

Agreed, they are excellent, Steven did a wonderful job of continuing and
enhancing the docs that were completed for 2.10.  They originally enabled
me to do a complete install, never having done one for anything other than
RSX and with zero UNIX experience.  SO again, well done Steven.

>   
>   Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
>   TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
>   which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
>   TK-50 (under RT-11).

Can you not write to the TK50 using system calls?.  What you need to do is to
write a utility that does "raw" byte by byte writes to the tape.  I can't 
believe that this can't be done.  If this can be done then images could be
written to the tape exactly as they appear on a standard 2.11 distribution
which could help you out.

Failing that, where are you?.  Could one of the people close by who have 2.11
cut you a TK50?.

Cheers

Robin
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robin Birch    EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk                          |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE  Thu Nov 23 18:25:13 1995
From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 9:25:13 +0100 (MET)
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.0.817115113.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>

>On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>
>> Danny -
>> 
>> > From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
>> > 
>> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
>> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
>> 
>> 	Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
>> 	records "bits as is" to tape?  No labeling, no nothing.
>                      ------- snip ------ 
>> 	Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:
>> 
>> 		cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
>> 		dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512
>> 
>  First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.
>  
>  Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
>  TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
>  which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
>  TK-50 (under RT-11).
>  I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel-
>  to -reel magtape.
>  Anybody know where I can find one ? :=)

I have a TU77 here in Sweden... :-)

And maybe Megan can answer for that "stupidity"...? :-)

	Johnny


From sysyphus at crl.com  Mon Nov 27 15:45:23 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:45:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BSD211 Tape building
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951126212950.17682A-100000@crl14.crl.com>

Greetings:
I'm getting there. Now that I have a working(??) drive, more trouble.
The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching.

                                     bytes,              512 -byte
Tape file    Docs- #records, size      PC        RT11disk blocks 
0 mtboot              1      512       512              1
  boot               14      512      32462            64
1 disklabel    * 23@ 512 or 1024      36191            71
2 mkfs               28     1024      31727            62
3 restor             27     1024      34066            67
4 icheck             26     1024      31356            62
  
* disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places.

I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC
prior to ethernet-ing it to the PDP with no errors, and in fact
I unzipped one file on my unix host and beamed it down. It was the
same.
Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas
whatis going on here?

Merry Christmas!
*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************


From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Mon Nov 27 17:09:29 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:09:29 -0800
Subject: BSD211 Tape building
Message-ID: <199511270709.XAA21408@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Hi -

> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> 
> Greetings:
> The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching.

	I'm not sure what you mean by "not matching" - the sizes you list
	below are correct.  'boot' is 32462 bytes, 'disklabel' is 36191 bytes,
	'mkfs' is indeed 31727, and so on.

> Tape file    Docs- #records, size      PC        RT11disk blocks 
> 0 mtboot              1      512       512              1
>   boot               14      512      32462            64
> 1 disklabel    * 23@ 512 or 1024      36191            71
> 2 mkfs               28     1024      31727            62
> 3 restor             27     1024      34066            67
> 4 icheck             26     1024      31356            62
>   
> * disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places.

	ARRGH!  That's a typo in the setup documents.  Sorry 'bout that.  I'll
	updated the master copies and post a patch in comp.bugs.2bsd soon.

	ALL of the executable programs (disklabel, icheck, mkfs, restor)
	must be blocked at 1024 bytes per record on the tape.

> I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC

	Yep - it looks like the gunzip went ok - the byte sizes look correct.

> Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas
> whatis going on here?

	You lost me there - what is too big or too small about them?  The
	record counts mentioned in the setup documents are examples - the
	counts were accurate at one time, but then if a bug was fixed or a
	feature added to boot or restor the number of records would change
	slightly.

	The various programs change size over time and the documents are not
	updated if the record sizes change a little bit.

	Oh - you need to have 2 copies of the 'mtboot' file at the front of
	the tape.  Why (I hear you ask)?  Some boot roms actually read the
	2nd copy!

	The format of a boot tape is:

		mtboot
		mtboot
		boot
		<TM>
		disklabel
		<TM>
		mkfs
		<TM>
		restor
		<TM>
		icheck
		<TM>

	<TM> = Tape Mark.

	the first file (with mtboot,mtboot,boot) is blocked at 512 bytes, all
	the other executables are blocked at 1024 (ignore the typo in the 
	setup docs).

	Good Luck!

	Steven Schultz
	sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Mon Nov 27 21:05:09 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 11:05:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: mknod device nnumbers (again)
Message-ID: <m0tK1Mz-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and
rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty
devices.

On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8
(c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or
similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? My system
has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as tty8. I'd like
to get the second interface up and running. I also have a DZ11, if
that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and works with
RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't remember
the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11).

Question is:
------------

What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and
what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for
support of a second DL11?

Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC
should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers?

Cheers once again,

Bob.

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

        "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Tue Nov 28 12:04:32 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:04:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: New version of Apout simulator
Message-ID: <9511280204.AA24810@dolphin>

All,
	It looks like this old PDP unix mailing list is going well, from all
the questions & answers going past. Does anybody know of software to archive,
catalogue, search and retrieve mail archives via the Web?

	My v7 a.out simulator is now working pretty well. I still can't run
/usr/games/chess, but I can compile a kernel from scratch using v7 cc,
and I can also compile the /usr/bin programs using v7 cc. The latest version
is available at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout2.1beta.tar.gz

P.S If you know of anybody else who would like to join the mailing list,
please let them know about it. The more people we have helping each other
out, the better.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Wed Nov 29 07:58:01 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:58:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: PDP Unix - Job Control
Message-ID: <9511282158.AA27619@dolphin>

While I was hacking away at a tcsh-like shell for Minix (a 7th Edition clone
for IBM ATs), I came up with this truly bizarre method of job control. It
even works!

	Warren


			Seventh Edition Job Control

Job control can be achieved under early versions of Unix, such as
Seventh Edition, by using the ptrace(2) system call in a manner not
intended by its designers.

Ptrace() was designed to allow a parent process to trace the excution
of a child process, stopping the child under certain conditions,
examining or modifying the contents of the child's memory, and
restarting the child.  The stopping/restarting abilities of ptrace()
can be used to provide job control.

To permit a child process to be stopped, it must inform the parent
that it wants its execution to be traced, which it does by
ptrace(0,0,0,0).  Fortunately, this can be done after the fork()
and before the exec() in the shell.

When a traced process is executing, it is stopped under the following
conditions:

	+ the process receives a signal, or
	+ the process exec()s

If the shell is wait()ing on the child, it will be informed that
the child has stopped, and can determine the signal that caused
the process to stop (SIGTRAP in the case that the process exec()d).
It is then able, using ptrace() with various arguments, to terminate
or restart the process. At the same time, the shell can also deliver
the signal to the restarted process, or not deliver the signal (see
the manual for ptrace(2)).

Seventh Edition job control, thus, is not so much a matter of stopping
a process when requested to by the user, as ensuring that the
process is always restarted, except when the user wants it to stop.

Restarting stopped processes is straightforward. Stopping a running
foreground process, however, is difficult, as there is no terminal
key that, when pressed, will inform the shell to stop the process;
indeed, the shell is most likely blocked wait()ing for the process
to terminate.

Two keys that do affect the execution of a foreground process are
`int' (usually ^C or DEL), which sends a SIGINT to the process,
and `quit' (usually ^\), which sends a SIGQUIT to the process. The
latter cannot be caught or ignored by the process, and the delivery
of SIGQUIT causes the process to terminate, usually with a core
dump. However, when a process is being traced, pending signals are
not delivered; instead, the process is stopped, and the parent
informed about the pending signal. The parent can choose to terminate
or restart the process, delivering or ignoring the signal as
described above.

Therefore, with ^C being frequently used, and ^\ rarely used, it
is possible to reinterpret the meaning of ^\ and SIGQUIT to mean
``stop the process''.  The SIGQUIT from ^\ is never delivered by
the shell, but all other signals (including the SIGINT from ^C)
are delivered. Users can then re-bind the `quit' key with stty(1)
to be the more traditional `stop' key, ^Z.


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 20:44:32 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:44:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: mknod device numbers
Message-ID: <m0tKk08-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and
rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty
devices.

On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8
(c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or
similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? 

My system has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as
tty8. I'd like to get the second interface up and running. I also have
a DZ11, if that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and
works with RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't
remember the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11).

Question is:
------------

o  What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and
   what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for
   support of a second DL11?

o  Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC
   should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers?

Cheers once again,

Bob.

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

    This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 20:55:58 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:55:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: v5, v6 on /34
Message-ID: <m0tKkBC-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


Having got past the emulator stage now (and having had my RK05 fitted
with new heads after a _spectacular_ crash), I've been setting to the
task of resurecting UNIX on the system.

Thanks to John Wilson's excellent KSERVE Kermit server for RT11 I've
been able to transfer v5 and v6 disk images to RK05. 

v6 boots just fine, and runs without any real drama. v5, much to my
suprise, does not ...

First off, my hardware is:

	11/34a (no fpp, no cache)
	124K word (248Kb) MOS
	2 x DL11-W 
	RX11
	RK11D

	1 x RK05
	1 x RX01

v5 boots to the '@' prompt. Entering the kernel name at this prompt
(this is the kernel for the RK05, obviously), causes a great deal of
disk activity - far more than for v6, in fact. The disk activity
stops, but no login prompt is presented. The processor is not halted,
but is executing a relatively tight loop.

Under emulation (using Bob Supnic's pdp11 emulator), v6 ran fine, but
v5 caused TRAPS every so often. It occurs to me that the behaviour
I've seen on the real 11/34 corresponds to a trap observed using the
emulator. The emulator can be 'continued' after a trap and all is
well. Since the 11/34 doesn't actually halt, but merely sits in a
tight loop, I can't see how to proceed.

Question is, is what I'm seeing a kernel panic? Since nothing is
output to the tty, after the '@' prompt, it may be that the kernel
doesn't like the look of my DL11 configuration? Alternatively,
everything may be AOK, and running, except that no login prompt is
produced on the tty.

Interestingly UNIX causes a UNIBUS reset as it finishes booting. This
is evidenced by the clattering of the RX01.

Naturally it's not necessary for me to get v5 going, since v6 is fine,
but it would be extremely interesting to find out what is going on. v7
seems to give a great deal of TRAPs on the emualtor, so maybe that
would not like the real hardware either judging from current
observations.

What do people think about this?

Cheers,

Bob.


--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

    This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Thu Nov  2 08:29:35 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 1995 09:29:35 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Canonical answer about getting v6 & v7 source
Message-ID: <9511012229.AA16683@dolphin>

Firstly, welcome to some new members of the old unix mailing list. If you don't
get this email, please let me know ;-)

I received an email back from Dennis Ritchie about getting a v6/v7 license
(for those who don't have one). Here is his full reply:

      From: Dennis Ritchie
      To: Warren Toomey
      Date: Wed, 1 Nov 1995 00:40:55 EST
      Subject: canonical answer about Sixth and Seventh Edition
      
      So far as I can determine, AT&T doesn't think it has the
      right to issue new licenses for any Unix editions, and won't
      do so.  Several years ago, the Unix IP was transferred to
      Unix Systems Laboratories, at first as a mostly-owned subsidiary;
      USL was then sold to Novell, and recently Novell agreed to
      sell its Unix business to SCO (and HP is partially involved).
      As of the end of October 1995 this last sale had not been
      consummated.
      
      In other words, AT&T is out of the Unix business, and has been
      for some time; any licenses will have to come from the current
      owner.  But the "current owner" is itself in flux, and I doubt that
      even before the latest sale, Novell was quite geared up to issue
      Seventh Edition licenses; I have no useful suggestions about
      how to obtain one officially (it might be interesting to try).
      
      Official sources in AT&T have said that they have no objection
      to reissuance of Lions's commentaries and source publication
      of the Sixth Edition.
      
      Dennis

So it doesn't look like good news at the moment; I guess we could approach
SCO and HP, and ask about trying to get licenses from them. I'll see what I
can do.

A few other people mentioned that they would like to get stuff from the
archive of early Unixes that I'm maintaining, and how to prove that they have
a license. I have no idea how to do this, any suggestions?

P.S There isn't a Sixth Edition in the archive as yet, can anyone send me a
distribution or bootable disk image?

Cheers all,

	Warren Toomey


From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Nov  3 09:21:10 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:21:10 +1100
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <9511022321.AA09085@dolphin>

hello


From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Nov  3 09:24:09 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 3 Nov 1995 10:24:09 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Licensed PDP Unix Archive ftpable
Message-ID: <9511022324.AA09122@dolphin>

All,
	A few quick notes about the PDP Unix archive effort. Dennis has sent
in Fifth Edition, and both he and Ken Wellsch have sent in Sixth Edition.

	I've set up ftp access to the archive of licensed stuff. To get in,
email me and I will send you back a username/password plus details.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Thu Nov  9 15:02:51 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 16:02:51 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Another PDP Unix program
Message-ID: <9511090502.AA00022@dolphin>

Hi,
	Firstly, this old unix mailing list is damn quiet - I'm the only one
talking. If you have any questions, ideas etc., mail them to
oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au.

	I'm away all of next week for a holiday, but will be back after that.

	Steven Schultz has promised 2.11BSD for the PDP Unix archive, and
I'm also talking with Keith Bostic, as he has some stuff of interest.

	There is also a new PDP-11 simulator; this one runs a.out binaries
directly, and passes the syscalls directly to the native operating system.
You can pick it up at:

	ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz

If anybody can fix the bugs mentioned in the README, please let me know!

See you all again soon!

	Warren


From risner at heathers.stdio.com  Thu Nov  9 23:19:36 1995
From: risner at heathers.stdio.com (James Risner)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <199511091319.IAA02121@heathers.stdio.com>

Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?

Risner


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Thu Nov  9 20:19:12 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:19:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Disk image file --> RK05
Message-ID: <m0tDU4f-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


I posted this query to vmsnet.pdp-11 and alt.sys.pdp11, but following
Warren's complaint that noone was talking on oldunix at minnie I'll ask
you lot too ...

I have on my PC hard disk a couple of rk05 disk images (from Warren's
archive, naturally). Question is, how to get them onto a real rk05
... the real PDP beats the emulator any day after all ...

Naturally someone has workedout how to extract RK05 images to files to
put on the archive site. I'm wondering if anyone has solved the
reverse problem yet ...

I could split up the file into moderate sized pieces (say 250k, RX01
sized bits), boot the PDP (RT11) off RX01 floppy, start kermit and
transfer a file piece from the PC to the other PDP floppy drive. Then
I could mount a fresh RK05 pack, format etc. and run some crafty code
to write the file to the appropriate place on the 'raw' RK05 device.
What do you think?

Another correspondent mentioned that Kermit may be able to write to
"raw" devices directly, allowing me to transfer the file all in one
piece. I'm still waiting for confirmation of that -- seems a little
unlikely to me, but I've been suprised before.

My system is:

	11/34a
	1 x RK05 (2.5Mb removable type, RK05f I think - or is it j?)
	1 x RX01
	128Kword

As you can see, backing store is in short supply ;)

I'd sooner avoid writing too much Macro-11 at present, so if the
problem is already solved, I'd love to know how ...

Cheers,


Bob.


-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

       "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
        the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk  Fri Nov 10 04:11:19 1995
From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 18:11:19 GMT
Subject: Register of machines
Message-ID: <138@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Dear All,
I have just had a note from someone who wants to get RK05 stuff on to his
system but might be in a position where his current setup can't do it.

This sort of stuff might be helped if people submitted a register of what kit 
they have.  This could allow people in reasonable geographic location to help
each other out.  FOr instance, if some one had a unix system that an rk05 could
be plugged into then they could do this and then give the rk05's back once they
had the stuff copied over.

To start it off.  I have:

1*11/73 (1.5MByte)
2*RD54
1*DHV11
1*TK50

Running 2.11 BSD.

I also have 1*Compaq 386 (486 Cyrix chip)
running FreeBSD

I live in Gloucestershire UK and am willing to help anybody in copying stuff
that I can.  I can get access to 0.5inch mag tape RA60 and RL02 if necessary.

Cheers

Robin
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robin Birch    EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk                          |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Fri Nov 10 19:47:43 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
Message-ID: <m0tDq3k-00000KC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
require separate I+D space?

Cheers,


Bob.

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

       "Wall Street or Crack Dealer Avenue,
        the last routes left to the American Dream" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE  Fri Nov 10 20:23:55 1995
From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:55 +0100 (MET)
Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:47:43 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.0.815999035.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>

>
>It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
>separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
>suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
>require separate I+D space?

Steve Schoultz is really the one to answer this question, but I
seem to remember that BSD2.9 was the last version which worked
on non-I/D-space systems.

	Johnny


From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE  Fri Nov 10 20:23:03 1995
From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:23:03 +0100 (MET)
Subject: No subject
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 9 Nov 1995 08:19:36 EST
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.0.815998983.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>

>Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
>I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?

I think it should go there, anyway.

	Johnny


From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Sat Nov 11 02:46:36 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:46:36 -0800
Subject: Which versions for 11/34 (Sep I+D space)
Message-ID: <199511101646.IAA18106@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Bob -

> From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
> 
> It has been suggested to me that since the 11/34a MMU doesn't support
> separate instruction and data space, certain versions of UNIX are not
> suitable. Does anyone out there have any idea which versions of UNIX
> require separate I+D space?

	The last version of UNIX for the PDP11 which stood a chance of
	running on a non split machine was 2.9BSD.  I'd expect it to be
	a very tight fit though because even on a split I/D machine we
	ended up overlaying the kernel (but then even V7 took overlays
	to fit - which we hacked into the kernel, at least in the environment 
	here).  A long long time ago I did squish a V7 system into an 11/23 - 
	not a pretty sight, each command you ran caused the others on the 
	system to be swapped out (do a "ls -l" and watch the shell get swapped,
	when the 'ls' finished then the shell would be swapped back in, etc.)

	V6 would be a better match for a non-split (248kb max) machine.  By
	the time V7 was out the 11/70 was being used as the development 
	platform and split I/D was becoming more and more necessary.

	Steven Schultz
	sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com


From wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au  Sat Nov 11 05:42:31 1995
From: wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 06:42:31 +1100 (EST)
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.0.815998983.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE> from "Johnny Billquist" at Nov 10, 95 11:23:03 am
Message-ID: <9511101942.AA12536@dolphin>

In atricle by Johnny Billquist:
> 
> >Comer, had a XINU v7 like os with tcp/ip for the LSI11.
> >I have a dist of it, if anyone would like it in the archive?
> 
> I think it should go there, anyway.

What's its copyright? I'd love it, but I'll check with Doug first.

P.S Rewrote Xinu on ass. code for an Apple ][, pretty sick, huh :-)

See you all later,

	Warren


From sysyphus at crl.com  Wed Nov 15 12:02:41 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 18:02:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951114180137.26434C-100000@crl4.crl.com>


Greetings:
  I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that
I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's
or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11
but won't go with BSD or TSX, and no docs on it at all).
  I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were
a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from.
  Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain?

*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************



From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Wed Nov 15 16:13:24 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 22:13:24 -0800
Subject: BSD for PDP-11/73 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199511150613.WAA21716@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Howdy -

> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> 
>   I've been trying to reinstall BSD2.9 on my 11/73. Problem is that
> I don't have any of the 'Classic' periperals anymore, like TU-10's
> or RL-02's. (I do have an RL02 emulation which works fine on RT-11

	The version of 2.9 I have dates from 1983 and lacks any support for 
	TMSCP and MSCP.

	Support for those came later, the initial 2BSD driver is dated
	September 1985 and has a comment to the effect it's based on the
	4.3BSD UDA driver, so 2.10 was likely the first inclusion of MSCP
	in a 2BSD kit.

	By the time of 2.10BSD the MSCP driver was definitely present.
	TMSCP support didn't make it in until 2.10.1BSD in 1989 - I know that 
	for sure 'cause I did the port.

>   I have RX-50's, TK-50 and various DU's (RD52,53,54). If this were
> a perfect world I would have a TK-50 distribution tape to rebuild from.

	TK-50 support didn't enter the picture until 1989 and it's a real
	beast of a driver (not to mention the bootblock and standalone
	driver).

>   Does anybody know how I might be able to obtain?

	Unless you can find some one with a later 2.9BSD system into which
	the MSCP driver was hacked (doubtful but who knows) I think you're
	out of luck.  I seriously doubt you'll find a TK50 version of 2.9
	since that wasn't added until 2.10.1BSD.

	On a /73 you're probably _much_ better off installing 2.11BSD 
	(currently at rev #277) - it's due to enter the archive in Oz any
	day now (when Warren gets back from vacation).

	Steven Schultz
	sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov 15 20:17:13 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 10:17:13 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: mknod device numbers
Message-ID: <m0tFeu2-00000EC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.

Does anyone know the major and minor numbers offhand, or know the
source well enough to know where to find them? I've grepped the source
to no avail ...

Cheers,

Bob

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

       "I'd rather stay a child
        and keep my self respect,
        if being an adult
        means being like you"   Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO  Thu Nov 16 01:35:23 1995
From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <m0tFeu2-00000EC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.3.91.951115163146.12873C-100000@barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO>

On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote:

> v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
> distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
> RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.

This works for me, with v6:

# chdir /dev
# ls -l
total 0
crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 console
crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  1 May 14  1975 kmem
crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  0 May 14  1975 mem
crw-rw-rw-  1 bin     8,  2 May 14  1975 null
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  0 Oct 10  1975 rk0
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  1 Oct 10  1975 rk1
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  2 Oct 10  1975 rk2
brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  3 Oct 10  1975 rk3
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  0 Nov  7 01:19 rrk0
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  1 Nov  7 01:19 rrk1
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  2 Nov  7 01:19 rrk2
crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  3 Nov  7 01:19 rrk3
crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 tty8

Protection could be better, of course.  :-)

-tih
-- 
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO


From milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu  Thu Nov 16 03:22:22 1995
From: milov at fingers.acs.uwlax.edu (Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 11:22:22 -0600
Subject: mknod device numbers
Message-ID: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu>

Hi,
 All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the
device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab
structure in the kernel. This is probably something that can be divined by
running nm on the kernel, /unix ? (All this is from memory,  my annotated V6
kernel listing is buried at home right now.) But, I'd be surprised to see a V6
distribution that didn't have the rk drivers built in. Another thing to
watch out for is the rk driver, er, device names/numbers that interleaved a
file system across multiple drives.   


BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on  
my pdp11/34's and 11/44?

--Milo
---
Milo Velimirovic       <Milo.Velimirovic at uwlax.edu>
Unix Computer Network Administrator  (608) 785-8030
Information Technology, Operations and Networking
University of Wisconsin - La Crosse
La Crosse, Wisconsin 54601 USA    43 48 05 N 91 14 22 W



Begin forwarded message:
> 

> Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 16:35:23 +0100 (MET)
> From: Tom I Helbekkmo <tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO>
> To: Bob Manners <rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
> Cc: OldUnix MailingList <oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
> Subject: Re: mknod device numbers
> In-Reply-To: <m0tFeu2-00000EC at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 

> On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Bob Manners wrote:
> 

> > v5 and v6 UNIX seem to have very few device files in /dev as
> > distributed. Inparticular, I need to set up the device entries for my
> > RK05 drives, /dev/rk0 and /dev/rrk0 etc.
> 

> This works for me, with v6:
> 

> # chdir /dev
> # ls -l
> total 0
> crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 console
> crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  1 May 14  1975 kmem
> crw-rw-r--  1 bin     8,  0 May 14  1975 mem
> crw-rw-rw-  1 bin     8,  2 May 14  1975 null
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  0 Oct 10  1975 rk0
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  1 Oct 10  1975 rk1
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  2 Oct 10  1975 rk2
> brw-rw-rw-  1 root    0,  3 Oct 10  1975 rk3
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  0 Nov  7 01:19 rrk0
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  1 Nov  7 01:19 rrk1
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  2 Nov  7 01:19 rrk2
> crw-rw-rw-  1 root    9,  3 Nov  7 01:19 rrk3
> crw--w--w-  2 root    0,  0 Nov  7 21:14 tty8
> 

> Protection could be better, of course.  :-)
> 

> -tih
> -- 

> Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
> tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO
> 

> 



From tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO  Thu Nov 16 06:57:59 1995
From: tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO (Tom I Helbekkmo)
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:57:59 +0100 (MET)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.3.91.951115213628.14251A-100000@barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO>

On Wed, 15 Nov 1995, Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030 wrote:

> All of this is very installation specific. The major/minor numbers in the
> device inodes need to correspond exactly to the entries in the devtab
> structure in the kernel.

True enough.  The example I gave was correct for the V6 distribution
that Ken Wellsch donated to the PUPS archive, and in which the file
/usr/sys/conf/c.c (generated by 'mkconf' in the same directory) ends
up with the following for the default "rkunix" with rk, tm and tc
drivers enabled, as per the script /usr/sys/run:

int     (*bdevsw[])()
{
        &nulldev,       &nulldev,       &rkstrategy,    &rktab, /* rk */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* rp */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* rf */
        &tmopen,        &tmclose,       &tmstrategy,    &tmtab, /* tm */
        &nulldev,       &tcclose,       &tcstrategy,    &tctab, /* tc */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* hs */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* hp */
        &nodev,         &nodev,         &nodev,         0,      /* ht */
        0
};

int     (*cdevsw[])()
{
        &klopen,   &klclose,  &klread,   &klwrite,  &klsgtty,   /* console */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* pc */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* lp */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dc */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dh */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dp */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dj */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* dn */
        &nulldev,  &nulldev,  &mmread,   &mmwrite,  &nodev,     /* mem */
        &nulldev,  &nulldev,  &rkread,   &rkwrite,  &nodev,     /* rk */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* rf */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* rp */
        &tmopen,   &tmclose,  &tmread,   &tmwrite,  &nodev,     /* tm */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* hs */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* hp */
        &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,    &nodev,     /* ht */
        0
};

The major device numbers are the offsets (counting from 0) in these
arrays, so rk has major 0 for the block device, 9 for the character
device.  I would assume that this holds for V6 in general -- if one
were to add device drivers, one would surely extend these arrays at
their ends, not insert anything into them...  :-)

-tih
-- 
Tom Ivar Helbekkmo
tih at Hamartun.Priv.NO


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Fri Nov 17 20:32:24 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 10:32:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: 11/34 with RK05 emulation ??
Message-ID: <m0tGO5p-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


My 11/34 is currently down awaiting replacement of an RK05 head which
crashed rather painfully on Monday (the 13th !).

In the meantime, I'm trying to sort out a new UNIX image for it, using
an emulator on the PC. I have an 11/73 emulator for UNIX (Linux) with
RK05s, and an 11/34 emulator (E11) for DOS, which looks great, but
doesn't support RK05 yet. 

The 11/73 emulator runs the v5 and v6 images nicely. The question is,
will these images run on a *real* 11/34 without a floating point
board? The /73 and /34 MMUs are significantly different I believe.

Looking at the v6 docs, the system is claimed to run on the 11/40, /45
and /70, but the /34 was yet to be created at that time, so there is
no information about that!

I'd be very grateful of someone could either tell me of a /34 emulator
with RK05 image support, or confirm if v5/v6/v7 UNIX will run on:

	11/34a
	128Kw
	1xRK05

	no floating point
	no sep I+D (I guess)

Cheers,

Bob.



--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

      "There's more to life than books you know, but not much more"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Tue Nov 21 08:19:41 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 09:19:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511151722.AA02396@fingers.acs.uwlax.edu> from "Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030" at Nov 15, 95 11:22:22 am
Message-ID: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin>

In atricle by Milo Velimirovic 31 Wing 785-8030:
> 
> BTW, is there anywhere one can get a "legal license" to run V6, V7, 2.XBSD on  
> my pdp11/34's and 11/44?

Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these.
Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP,
we can ask them for an answer.

P.S Back from holidays, the machine minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au died (out of swap)
on Saturday, and I've just rebooted her, so the mailing list is back up.
I've also moved 2.11BSD into the ftp archive on henry.cs.adfa.oz.au. Thanks
to Steven Schultz for the copy.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Tue Nov 21 13:55:34 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 14:55:34 +1100 (EST)
Subject: a.out simulator: PDP test progs?
Message-ID: <9511210355.AA16445@dolphin>

All,
	I am still bashing away at my v7 a.out simulator, available at
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout_2.1.tar.gz. I'm having a *$(&(#(@ of a time
getting it to work 100% correctly.

At the moment, I can compile 30 to 40% of the programs in /usr/src/cmd. It
seems that the assember isn't being simulated correctly. Nearly all the
other programs work fine.

Does anybody have any PDP-11 asm programs (preferably v7 Unix .s files)
that give the user mode a damn good flogging, and catch instructions and
addressing modes that are not working correctly :-)

Thanks all,

	Warren


From dave at esi.COM.AU  Tue Nov 21 21:49:00 1995
From: dave at esi.COM.AU (Dave Horsfall)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:49:00 +1100 (EST)
Subject: mknod device numbers
In-Reply-To: <9511202219.AA13088@dolphin>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951121224148.10757A-100000@eram.esi.com.au>

On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Warren Toomey wrote:

> Nobody, not even Dennis Ritchie, knows how to get a license for any of these.
> Hopefully, when the Unix source finishes its current migration to SCO and HP,
> we can ask them for an answer.

Ah yes, the classic Catch-22...

"How do I do this?"
"You need a licence."
"How do I get a licence?"
"Nobody knows."

With apologies to Milo Minderbinder...

And in the meantime. those of us who can't quite lay our hands upon
that piece of paper will just have to wait until Something Can Be Done.

-- 
Dave Horsfall (VK2KFU) | dave at esi.com.au | VK2KFU @ VK2DAA.NSW.AUS.OC | PGP 2.6
Opinions expressed are mine. | D8 15 71 F9 26 C8 63 40  5E 63 5C 65 FC A0 22 99



From sysyphus at crl.com  Wed Nov 22 16:06:51 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 22:06:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951121214923.2266B-100000@crl12.crl.com>

Greetings:
Woe is me.
I have been trying to resurrect Unix (BSD) on my venerable PDP-11/73.
It had an RL02, which has gone west.
It is running RT-11/TSX off an RD-54, and I would much like to run
BSD2.11 instead, for several reasons.
Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has
no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed
syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that"
-type errors, so I have given up.
This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could
build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I
need is either:
1. Someone who knows the secret to doing an addressable variable-
block-length transfer to a TMSCP device with RT-11; or
2. A bootable RL02 image of 2.11, wwhich would be a feat; or
3.A bootable RD5X image of same; or
4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape.
(Yes, I put eggs in my beer).

All leads appreciated. I *do* have surplus Q-bus hardware (except
for RL02 drives).
Cheers!
BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list?
*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************


From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Wed Nov 22 17:04:20 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 23:04:20 -0800
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Danny -

> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> 
> Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
> bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot

	Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
	records "bits as is" to tape?  No labeling, no nothing.

> seem to assemble the tape files onto the tape using RT-11. It has
> no 'dd' facility. At least, I thought it did, but every left-handed
> syntax variation I have tried has resulted in "You can't do that"

	Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:

		cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
		dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512

	Basically what you want to do is have two copies of the tapeboot
	block followed immediately by the boot program written to tape
	using 512 byte records.  Perhaps catenating the data together into
	1 temp file first would help and then write that file out all at
	one time.

	Once you have that data on tape you have a bootable TK50.  The
	other images (mkfs, restor, etc) can be put on separate tapes if
	need be and loaded one at a time.

	That will require some interpolation of the setup/installation
	documents but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

> This is really a simple problem. I would steal another RL02 if I could
> build the tape from BSD2.9, but it doesn't support MSCP. So what I

	Or TMSCP ;-(

> 4.A TK50, preferably the distribution tape.
> (Yes, I put eggs in my beer).

	Bletch (to eggs in beer) ;-)

	TK50 tapes are excrutiatingly (sp) time consuming to write - I'm not
	sure where the problem is (other than the TK50 being about as smart
	and fast as a rock).  Reading them isn't too bad, but to write a full
	2.11 kit on TK50 took around 7 hours the last time I did it on a 11/73.

> BTW- how do I subscribe to this mailing list?

	Drop a line to Warren Toomey (wkt at csadfa.cs.adfa.oz.au).

	Cheers and good luck.

	Steven


From sysyphus at crl.com  Thu Nov 23 11:17:39 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: <199511220704.XAA12504@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951122170747.28165A-100000@crl11.crl.com>

On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote:

> Danny -
> 
> > From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> > 
> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
> 
> 	Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
> 	records "bits as is" to tape?  No labeling, no nothing.
                      ------- snip ------ 
> 	Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:
> 
> 		cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
> 		dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512
> 
  First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.
  
  Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
  TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
  which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
  TK-50 (under RT-11).
  I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel-
  to -reel magtape.
  Anybody know where I can find one ? :=)
*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************


From robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk  Thu Nov 23 17:55:16 1995
From: robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 1995 07:55:16 GMT
Subject: your mail
Message-ID: <143@falstaf.demon.co.uk>


>   First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.

Agreed, they are excellent, Steven did a wonderful job of continuing and
enhancing the docs that were completed for 2.10.  They originally enabled
me to do a complete install, never having done one for anything other than
RSX and with zero UNIX experience.  SO again, well done Steven.

>   
>   Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
>   TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
>   which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
>   TK-50 (under RT-11).

Can you not write to the TK50 using system calls?.  What you need to do is to
write a utility that does "raw" byte by byte writes to the tape.  I can't 
believe that this can't be done.  If this can be done then images could be
written to the tape exactly as they appear on a standard 2.11 distribution
which could help you out.

Failing that, where are you?.  Could one of the people close by who have 2.11
cut you a TK50?.

Cheers

Robin
-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Robin Birch    EMail robin at falstaf.demon.co.uk                          |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------



From bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE  Thu Nov 23 18:25:13 1995
From: bqt at Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 95 9:25:13 +0100 (MET)
Subject: your mail
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 22 Nov 1995 17:17:39 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.0.817115113.bqt@Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE>

>On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>
>> Danny -
>> 
>> > From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
>> > 
>> > Now, I have several components of 2.11, and I'm trying to build a
>> > bootable TK50 tape to install from. The problem is that I cannot
>> 
>> 	Hmmm - does RT-11 have the ability/utilities to write 512 byte
>> 	records "bits as is" to tape?  No labeling, no nothing.
>                      ------- snip ------ 
>> 	Can you, using RT-11 do the equivalent of:
>> 
>> 		cat mtboot mtboot boot > file
>> 		dd if=file of=tapedrive bs=512
>> 
>  First, I want to complement you on the excellent docs for 2.11BSD.
>  
>  Second, I want to flame the people at DEC who decided that the
>  TK-50 MUST have a directory of some sort, and that various commands
>  which will work with other mag-tape devices will NOT work on the
>  TK-50 (under RT-11).
>  I am now going to plan B. I am going to scrounge up a proper reel-
>  to -reel magtape.
>  Anybody know where I can find one ? :=)

I have a TU77 here in Sweden... :-)

And maybe Megan can answer for that "stupidity"...? :-)

	Johnny


From sysyphus at crl.com  Mon Nov 27 15:45:23 1995
From: sysyphus at crl.com (Danny R. Brown)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 21:45:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: BSD211 Tape building
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951126212950.17682A-100000@crl14.crl.com>

Greetings:
I'm getting there. Now that I have a working(??) drive, more trouble.
The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching.

                                     bytes,              512 -byte
Tape file    Docs- #records, size      PC        RT11disk blocks 
0 mtboot              1      512       512              1
  boot               14      512      32462            64
1 disklabel    * 23@ 512 or 1024      36191            71
2 mkfs               28     1024      31727            62
3 restor             27     1024      34066            67
4 icheck             26     1024      31356            62
  
* disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places.

I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC
prior to ethernet-ing it to the PDP with no errors, and in fact
I unzipped one file on my unix host and beamed it down. It was the
same.
Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas
whatis going on here?

Merry Christmas!
*************************************************************************
*      A Personal Message from   *                BASILISK              *
*          Danny R. Brown        *     "Try our other fine flavors!"    *
*       ( sysyphus at crl.com )     *            (404) 392-1691            *
*        Pager:(404)397-0516     *            LYNC host mode            *
*************************************************************************


From sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com  Mon Nov 27 17:09:29 1995
From: sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Sun, 26 Nov 1995 23:09:29 -0800
Subject: BSD211 Tape building
Message-ID: <199511270709.XAA21408@wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com>

Hi -

> From: "Danny R. Brown" <sysyphus at crl.com>
> 
> Greetings:
> The file size/# of records/block sizea aren't matching.

	I'm not sure what you mean by "not matching" - the sizes you list
	below are correct.  'boot' is 32462 bytes, 'disklabel' is 36191 bytes,
	'mkfs' is indeed 31727, and so on.

> Tape file    Docs- #records, size      PC        RT11disk blocks 
> 0 mtboot              1      512       512              1
>   boot               14      512      32462            64
> 1 disklabel    * 23@ 512 or 1024      36191            71
> 2 mkfs               28     1024      31727            62
> 3 restor             27     1024      34066            67
> 4 icheck             26     1024      31356            62
>   
> * disklabel was quoted as two different bs in two different places.

	ARRGH!  That's a typo in the setup documents.  Sorry 'bout that.  I'll
	updated the master copies and post a patch in comp.bugs.2bsd soon.

	ALL of the executable programs (disklabel, icheck, mkfs, restor)
	must be blocked at 1024 bytes per record on the tape.

> I really think that my gunzipping is kosher- I do it in the PC

	Yep - it looks like the gunzip went ok - the byte sizes look correct.

> Anyway boot is too big or restor is to small, or something. Any ideas
> whatis going on here?

	You lost me there - what is too big or too small about them?  The
	record counts mentioned in the setup documents are examples - the
	counts were accurate at one time, but then if a bug was fixed or a
	feature added to boot or restor the number of records would change
	slightly.

	The various programs change size over time and the documents are not
	updated if the record sizes change a little bit.

	Oh - you need to have 2 copies of the 'mtboot' file at the front of
	the tape.  Why (I hear you ask)?  Some boot roms actually read the
	2nd copy!

	The format of a boot tape is:

		mtboot
		mtboot
		boot
		<TM>
		disklabel
		<TM>
		mkfs
		<TM>
		restor
		<TM>
		icheck
		<TM>

	<TM> = Tape Mark.

	the first file (with mtboot,mtboot,boot) is blocked at 512 bytes, all
	the other executables are blocked at 1024 (ignore the typo in the 
	setup docs).

	Good Luck!

	Steven Schultz
	sms at wlv.iipo.gtegsc.com


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Mon Nov 27 21:05:09 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 1995 11:05:09 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: mknod device nnumbers (again)
Message-ID: <m0tK1Mz-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and
rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty
devices.

On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8
(c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or
similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? My system
has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as tty8. I'd like
to get the second interface up and running. I also have a DZ11, if
that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and works with
RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't remember
the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11).

Question is:
------------

What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and
what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for
support of a second DL11?

Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC
should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers?

Cheers once again,

Bob.

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 246561 x 162
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

        "The comfort you've demanded is now mandatory" - Jello Biafra
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Tue Nov 28 12:04:32 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 1995 13:04:32 +1100 (EST)
Subject: New version of Apout simulator
Message-ID: <9511280204.AA24810@dolphin>

All,
	It looks like this old PDP unix mailing list is going well, from all
the questions & answers going past. Does anybody know of software to archive,
catalogue, search and retrieve mail archives via the Web?

	My v7 a.out simulator is now working pretty well. I still can't run
/usr/games/chess, but I can compile a kernel from scratch using v7 cc,
and I can also compile the /usr/bin programs using v7 cc. The latest version
is available at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/apout2.1beta.tar.gz

P.S If you know of anybody else who would like to join the mailing list,
please let them know about it. The more people we have helping each other
out, the better.

Cheers,
	Warren


From wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au  Wed Nov 29 07:58:01 1995
From: wkt at dolphin.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 08:58:01 +1100 (EST)
Subject: PDP Unix - Job Control
Message-ID: <9511282158.AA27619@dolphin>

While I was hacking away at a tcsh-like shell for Minix (a 7th Edition clone
for IBM ATs), I came up with this truly bizarre method of job control. It
even works!

	Warren


			Seventh Edition Job Control

Job control can be achieved under early versions of Unix, such as
Seventh Edition, by using the ptrace(2) system call in a manner not
intended by its designers.

Ptrace() was designed to allow a parent process to trace the excution
of a child process, stopping the child under certain conditions,
examining or modifying the contents of the child's memory, and
restarting the child.  The stopping/restarting abilities of ptrace()
can be used to provide job control.

To permit a child process to be stopped, it must inform the parent
that it wants its execution to be traced, which it does by
ptrace(0,0,0,0).  Fortunately, this can be done after the fork()
and before the exec() in the shell.

When a traced process is executing, it is stopped under the following
conditions:

	+ the process receives a signal, or
	+ the process exec()s

If the shell is wait()ing on the child, it will be informed that
the child has stopped, and can determine the signal that caused
the process to stop (SIGTRAP in the case that the process exec()d).
It is then able, using ptrace() with various arguments, to terminate
or restart the process. At the same time, the shell can also deliver
the signal to the restarted process, or not deliver the signal (see
the manual for ptrace(2)).

Seventh Edition job control, thus, is not so much a matter of stopping
a process when requested to by the user, as ensuring that the
process is always restarted, except when the user wants it to stop.

Restarting stopped processes is straightforward. Stopping a running
foreground process, however, is difficult, as there is no terminal
key that, when pressed, will inform the shell to stop the process;
indeed, the shell is most likely blocked wait()ing for the process
to terminate.

Two keys that do affect the execution of a foreground process are
`int' (usually ^C or DEL), which sends a SIGINT to the process,
and `quit' (usually ^\), which sends a SIGQUIT to the process. The
latter cannot be caught or ignored by the process, and the delivery
of SIGQUIT causes the process to terminate, usually with a core
dump. However, when a process is being traced, pending signals are
not delivered; instead, the process is stopped, and the parent
informed about the pending signal. The parent can choose to terminate
or restart the process, delivering or ignoring the signal as
described above.

Therefore, with ^C being frequently used, and ^\ rarely used, it
is possible to reinterpret the meaning of ^\ and SIGQUIT to mean
``stop the process''.  The SIGQUIT from ^\ is never delivered by
the shell, but all other signals (including the SIGINT from ^C)
are delivered. Users can then re-bind the `quit' key with stty(1)
to be the more traditional `stop' key, ^Z.


From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 20:44:32 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:44:32 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: mknod device numbers
Message-ID: <m0tKk08-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


First off, thanks to all the people who gave me info for the rk? and
rrk? devices. That now works. I now come to the question of tty
devices.

On v5 and v6, the single terminal device which is set up is /dev/tty8
(c 0 0). This suggests to me that the system is build with a DZ11 (or
similar) as tty0 to tty7. Am I correct in this assumption? 

My system has a pair of DL11s, and one of them works happily as
tty8. I'd like to get the second interface up and running. I also have
a DZ11, if that is any help. (The second DL11 is set up at present and
works with RT11 using the CONSOL.MAC mechanism to switch ttys. I can't
remember the CSR/VEC, but it is the RT11 default for a second DL11).

Question is:
------------

o  What is the device numbering (major/minor) for a second DL11? (and
   what CSR/VEC should it have?)? Or need I rebuild the system for
   support of a second DL11?

o  Second, is the DZ11 supported by default, and, if so, what CSR/VEC
   should I set, and what are the device major and minor numbers?

Cheers once again,

Bob.

-- 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

    This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. 
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From rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk  Wed Nov 29 20:55:58 1995
From: rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk (Bob Manners)
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 1995 10:55:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: v5, v6 on /34
Message-ID: <m0tKkBC-00000DC@swift.eng.ox.ac.uk>


Having got past the emulator stage now (and having had my RK05 fitted
with new heads after a _spectacular_ crash), I've been setting to the
task of resurecting UNIX on the system.

Thanks to John Wilson's excellent KSERVE Kermit server for RT11 I've
been able to transfer v5 and v6 disk images to RK05. 

v6 boots just fine, and runs without any real drama. v5, much to my
suprise, does not ...

First off, my hardware is:

	11/34a (no fpp, no cache)
	124K word (248Kb) MOS
	2 x DL11-W 
	RX11
	RK11D

	1 x RK05
	1 x RX01

v5 boots to the '@' prompt. Entering the kernel name at this prompt
(this is the kernel for the RK05, obviously), causes a great deal of
disk activity - far more than for v6, in fact. The disk activity
stops, but no login prompt is presented. The processor is not halted,
but is executing a relatively tight loop.

Under emulation (using Bob Supnic's pdp11 emulator), v6 ran fine, but
v5 caused TRAPS every so often. It occurs to me that the behaviour
I've seen on the real 11/34 corresponds to a trap observed using the
emulator. The emulator can be 'continued' after a trap and all is
well. Since the 11/34 doesn't actually halt, but merely sits in a
tight loop, I can't see how to proceed.

Question is, is what I'm seeing a kernel panic? Since nothing is
output to the tty, after the '@' prompt, it may be that the kernel
doesn't like the look of my DL11 configuration? Alternatively,
everything may be AOK, and running, except that no login prompt is
produced on the tty.

Interestingly UNIX causes a UNIBUS reset as it finishes booting. This
is evidenced by the clattering of the RX01.

Naturally it's not necessary for me to get v5 going, since v6 is fine,
but it would be extremely interesting to find out what is going on. v7
seems to give a great deal of TRAPs on the emualtor, so maybe that
would not like the real hardware either judging from current
observations.

What do people think about this?

Cheers,

Bob.


--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Manners                                  Osney Laboratory
rjm at swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                          Dept of Engineering Science
                                                University of Oxford
                                                01865 288762
Try: http://swift.eng.ox.ac.uk                  Linux - the only choice

    This message brought to you from an entirely Microsoft free system. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------




