From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 01:35:50 2012
From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 10:35:50 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] unix guru test
Message-ID: <CAFCBnZt3Q3yb51VyOvsDPDm5XonDsgQOHxeRTkhHRmPF82D_-w@mail.gmail.com>

too easy for everyone on this list :-)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.unix.questions/Dfbry3j1x6w/nF4IcFDD--0J
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From d235j.1 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 01:47:43 2012
From: d235j.1 at gmail.com (David Ryskalczyk)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 11:47:43 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Interesting comment about /usr/share/calendar.computer
Message-ID: <CAB3bDi7pxciAJdi+AtJfOuy8JDF0iyqe7eP6TFCoQ_fqUjw2TA@mail.gmail.com>

So I was digging around some time back, and noticed these lines in the
*BSD "Computer" calendar file:


06/30   First advanced degree on computer related topic: to H. Karamanian,
        Temple Univ., Phila, 1948, for symbolic differentiation on the ENIAC

Since I'm attending Temple, this caught my attention. However, a
search for "H. Karamanian" didn't turn up anything, so I gave up.

Recently, I tried again and found this:
http://diamond.temple.edu/record=b1850797
In short, the name in calendar.computer is misspelled, and the date is
wrong too! The correct year is 1953, at least according to that
record. (I haven't looked at the actual thesis yet.)
Whether this is indeed the "First advanced degree on computer related
topic" is something I'm not sure about — a cursory search didn't turn
up any others that predate this one, but I didn't search very far.

--David R


From pechter at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 02:57:40 2012
From: pechter at gmail.com (Bill Pechter)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 12:57:40 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] unix guru test
In-Reply-To: <CAFCBnZt3Q3yb51VyOvsDPDm5XonDsgQOHxeRTkhHRmPF82D_-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFCBnZt3Q3yb51VyOvsDPDm5XonDsgQOHxeRTkhHRmPF82D_-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALwkMd1nRA+25EZAK9sDc70eUU+mwi=_fUhWdDOmQwz2FLU0ZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:35 AM, A. P. Garcia
<a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> too easy for everyone on this list :-)
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.unix.questions/Dfbry3j1x6w/nF4IcFDD--0J
>
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>

Anyone find a link to the answer key.  I'd love to check mine.
There's stuff on the test I haven't thought of for years.

(How many users were there on the internet winter of 1994?)

a.  Too many
b.  A lot less than in 2012 but still too many
c.  About the right amount and with a better to S/N ratio than we have now.
d.  The internet, what's that.

--
  d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
 pechter-at-gmail.com


From dfevans at sekrit.eu  Thu Oct 11 03:02:31 2012
From: dfevans at sekrit.eu (David Evans)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 18:02:31 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] Interesting comment about /usr/share/calendar.computer
In-Reply-To: <CAB3bDi7pxciAJdi+AtJfOuy8JDF0iyqe7eP6TFCoQ_fqUjw2TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3bDi7pxciAJdi+AtJfOuy8JDF0iyqe7eP6TFCoQ_fqUjw2TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1F11DA0-1843-463E-887A-8C7E210BFC0F@sekrit.eu>

On 10 Oct 2012, at 16:47, David Ryskalczyk <d235j.1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> So I was digging around some time back, and noticed these lines in the
> *BSD "Computer" calendar file:
> 
> 
> 06/30   First advanced degree on computer related topic: to H. Karamanian,
>        Temple Univ., Phila, 1948, for symbolic differentiation on the ENIAC
> 

...

> Recently, I tried again and found this:
> http://diamond.temple.edu/record=b1850797
> In short, the name in calendar.computer is misspelled, and the date is
> wrong too! The correct year is 1953, at least according to that
> record. (I haven't looked at the actual thesis yet.)
> Whether this is indeed the "First advanced degree on computer related
> topic" is something I'm not sure about — a cursory search didn't turn
> up any others that predate this one, but I didn't search very far.
> 

If 1953 is correct then Dave Wheeler's PhD predates it by about two years:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/misc/obituaries/wheeler





From reed at reedmedia.net  Thu Oct 11 04:52:05 2012
From: reed at reedmedia.net (Jeremy C. Reed)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 13:52:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [TUHS] Interesting comment about /usr/share/calendar.computer
In-Reply-To: <CAB3bDi7pxciAJdi+AtJfOuy8JDF0iyqe7eP6TFCoQ_fqUjw2TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAB3bDi7pxciAJdi+AtJfOuy8JDF0iyqe7eP6TFCoQ_fqUjw2TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <alpine.NEB.2.01.1210101349530.13490@t1.m.reedmedia.net>

I emailed rlw who provided the calendar entry in at least 1984 and 
authored the History of Programming Languages book ... He said: ``Grace 
Hopper mentioned it in her keynote address at the first History of 
Programming Languages Conference.  And they got the name wrong (as have 
I at times).  HOPL book, p. 13: "It was finally given to Harry 
Kahrimanian, and in May of 1953, Harry put out hid thesis at Temple 
University,..."''


From artistenator at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 13:35:02 2012
From: artistenator at gmail.com (Brian Zick)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 23:35:02 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] unix guru test
In-Reply-To: <CALwkMd1nRA+25EZAK9sDc70eUU+mwi=_fUhWdDOmQwz2FLU0ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFCBnZt3Q3yb51VyOvsDPDm5XonDsgQOHxeRTkhHRmPF82D_-w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALwkMd1nRA+25EZAK9sDc70eUU+mwi=_fUhWdDOmQwz2FLU0ZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEvOwxXdivaCeAuRdwO2wQv3AA=9HHcj_xN0_jHziKawUdmG0A@mail.gmail.com>

Answers on here: http://mike.makuch.org/?p=40

See also: How To Look Like A UNIX Guru
http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~parrt/course/601/lectures/unix.util.html


Brian M. Zick
zickzickzick.com


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Bill Pechter <pechter at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 11:35 AM, A. P. Garcia
> <a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> too easy for everyone on this list :-)
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.unix.questions/Dfbry3j1x6w/nF4IcFDD--0J
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>>
>
> Anyone find a link to the answer key.  I'd love to check mine.
> There's stuff on the test I haven't thought of for years.
>
> (How many users were there on the internet winter of 1994?)
>
> a.  Too many
> b.  A lot less than in 2012 but still too many
> c.  About the right amount and with a better to S/N ratio than we have now.
> d.  The internet, what's that.
>
> --
>   d|i|g|i|t|a|l had it THEN.  Don't you wish you could still buy it now!
>  pechter-at-gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From wkt at tuhs.org  Fri Oct 12 14:25:49 2012
From: wkt at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 14:25:49 +1000
Subject: [TUHS] Old DEC books for sale
Message-ID: <20121012042549.GA30357@minnie.tuhs.org>

All, as I have to move office at the end of the year, I have a few old
DEC books which I'd like to re-home to good families. I am happy to give
them away, but I would like to be reimbursed for postage and packing.

I've put up the details of the books at this link:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/DECBooks/

Feel free to pass this on to anybody else who might be interested.

Cheers,
	Warren


From lyndon at orthanc.ca  Sat Oct 13 05:34:20 2012
From: lyndon at orthanc.ca (Lyndon Nerenberg)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:34:20 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] APL\360 Source Code Released
Message-ID: <FC3FB61A-3986-4198-A65E-1040B462EF1D@orthanc.ca>

After a 10-year quest, the Computer History Museum has convinced IBM to make the source code for APL\360 available to the public.  The license terms are for personal use only, no copying allowed.

The code itself is quite entertaining to read in some areas :-)  About 37K lines of 360 macro assembler, which includes most of an interactive time-shared terminal OS environment upon which to run the APL interpreter.

http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/the-apl-programming-language-source-code/ has lots of background material, and the link to the download page.  Note that the links in the bibliography section on that page are broken – the all contain a spurious '.' at the end of the URL anchors.

--lyndon



From BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu  Sat Oct 13 07:27:31 2012
From: BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu (Benjamin Huntsman)
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2012 21:27:31 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] APL\360 Source Code Released
In-Reply-To: <FC3FB61A-3986-4198-A65E-1040B462EF1D@orthanc.ca>
References: <FC3FB61A-3986-4198-A65E-1040B462EF1D@orthanc.ca>
Message-ID: <5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B122A6@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>

Gold star to the first person who gets the whole mess running under Hercules!

________________________________________
From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] on behalf of Lyndon Nerenberg [lyndon at orthanc.ca]
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 12:34 PM
To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: [TUHS] APL\360 Source Code Released

After a 10-year quest, the Computer History Museum has convinced IBM to make the source code for APL\360 available to the public.  The license terms are for personal use only, no copying allowed.

The code itself is quite entertaining to read in some areas :-)  About 37K lines of 360 macro assembler, which includes most of an interactive time-shared terminal OS environment upon which to run the APL interpreter.

http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/the-apl-programming-language-source-code/ has lots of background material, and the link to the download page.  Note that the links in the bibliography section on that page are broken – the all contain a spurious '.' at the end of the URL anchors.

--lyndon

_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com  Thu Oct 11 01:31:43 2012
From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 10:31:43 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] unix horror stories
Message-ID: <CAFCBnZsUBBit82AaE+Pcf_J=D95YVPBc9iXYZk5CjbkLeUdg3Q@mail.gmail.com>

i happened across this cute document in my archives...

----

*na    Bblisa-Announce-Owner at cs.umb.edu    Tue Dec 28 14:10:50 1993
*to    bblisa-announce at cs.umb.edu
*su    Some notes from December 1, 1993 meeting
*fr    "John P. Rouillard" <rouilj at terminus.cs.umb.edu>
*se    Bblisa-Announce-Owner at cs.umb.edu
*da    Tue, 28 Dec 1993 12:42:01 -0500
*mi    <199312281742.AA17997 at cs.umb.edu>
*re    from cs.umb.edu (daemon at cs.umb.edu [158.121.104.2])
    by argali.opal.com (8.6.4/jr2.9) with SMTP
    id OAA27752; Tue, 28 Dec 1993 14:10:43 -0500
*re    by cs.umb.edu id AA18007
    (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for bblisa-announce-outgoing); Tue, 28 Dec 1993
12:42:08 -0500
*re    from terminus.cs.umb.edu by cs.umb.edu with SMTP id AA17997
    (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for <bblisa-announce at cs.umb.edu>); Tue, 28 Dec 1993
12:42:01 -0500
*ex    Precedence: bulk
*tx

Here are the notes from the December 1, 1993 meeting. Names have been
deleted to protect the innocent. The topic was:

      UNIX Horror Stories (Actually Computer Horror Stories)

and away we go.

Story 1:
A new user I knew was trying to clean out some old accounts on a system
he was given.  As root, he changed directories to one of the old user
directories, and then did 'rm -r *' but noticed it left a directory
called .X11 behind.  To get rid of it, and to be sure it wouldn't fail,
he did 'rm -rf .*'.  Sad to say he didn't realize that '.*' could and
would expand into '..', and it would continue to do so recursively.
I thought this was better than the 'garden variety' 'rm -rf' scenario.
The guy though, worst case, he'd blow away the old user accounts,
but got the entire disk instead!

Needless to say, it was time for the install disketts (yes, diskettes,
about 30 of them...).

Story 2:
SunOS 4.0 NFS server configured with IP address 192.9.200.0
by suninstall (default - a suninstall bug) and rebooted after
OS installation... (nice DECnet meltdown)

Story 3:
/etc/reboot - then noticing you were in the wrong window...

Story 4:
Coming in at 7:00AM Saturday to upgrade to Ultrix 2.2, then
5 hours later having the other guy type in rm -rf - then
realising he forgot to cd out of /etc...

Story 5:
Having a user request some files to be restored - but forgetting
when they existed except that it was "sometime around a
year or so ago"...

Story 6:
Would you all be interested in the time a workman disassembled the cubicle
containing my NIS master and dropped a 1.3 gig disk several feet to the
floor ...? (Prior to telling me he was taking it apart of course ...)

Story 7:
talking to an end-user who just called in over the phone

 my root filesystem filled up, so I looked around; I found & removed vmunix
 and boot, and that seems to have fixed things, so I typed fastboot.

Story 8:
Back in the days when UNIX V6 was new, we installed it on a PDP 11/44
in the CS lab.  It ran fine.  We allowed students on it.  It ran fine.
People started using it for real work, albeit tentatively.  It ran fine.
It was a bit slow if several people were on -- what do you expect for
a PDP11/44 -- but, it ran fine.

Then occasioanlly, we started noticing that troff would go wrong and
it would mis-format some portions of a document.  Funnily enough,
when you re-ran the job, it ran fine.  We opened up the CAT.  Have
you ever been inside a CAT?  These were serious phototypesetters.
And, we could find nothing wrong with ours.  After a few days of
frustratedly looking for problems with the CAT, and the wiring, and
the troff config, it seemed to start working OK again, so we closed
it all up, and forgot about the problem.

About 12 weeks later, students working on simulation class assignments
started complaining that if they came in and ran their programs during
the day, the programs would give the wrong results.  But, if they ran
the SAME programs in the evening, they'd be fine.  Thinking to ourselves
that students are a real pain in the ass, we took a look.  Thing is,
they were right.  The programs DID indeed give different results
depending on when you ran them.  Mostly, they were OK, but occasional
daytime runs were flaky.  Problem with the core (yes, we had core
storage on that system)?  We swapped core boards.  No change.  We
swapped CPU boards.  No change.  We practically swapped every board
and the bus and built a new machine.  No change.  Of course, the
number of failures were few -- the programs ran OK MOST of the time,
so pinning this down was a slow process.  Eventually, the students
all got their assignments done, and they went on to other exercises,
and we didn't have any more problems, so we got on with our lives,
and forgot about it.

Another 12 weeks go by.  We were all happy.  Life was good.  The 11/44
is still running fine.  Until... Aaargh!  Someone using the dc calculator
reported errors in the results... sometimes!  And, at the same time,
someone using troff reported mis-set pages.  We took the machine down
to single user.  We ran all the programs.  We turned on all sorts of
debugging and tracing.  Everything was fine.  Nothing went wrong.
We pulled our hair out!  We went back multi-user.  Everything was
fine.  We'd run dc.  It was fine.  We'd troff the document.  It was
fine.  We'd go to the bar.  The users would come and find us and
show us printouts of their dc and troffs that had gone wrong!!

Aaaargh!

Well, this was one of those problems.  Eventually, we made an observation.
Dc works fine.  Troff works fine.  The simulation assignment program
works fine.  But... run any of them at the same time...!!!!  That
was it!  It turned out, that these three programs used the floating
point hardware.  They were the ONLY programs that used the floating
point hardware.  Our machine had floating point hardware; the one
at Bell Labs did not have.  UNIX V6 was not saving the floating
point registers on context switching.  If you were the only floating
point program on the system, this did not matter -- you context
switched out, and when you switched back in, your registers were
all there as you left them.  But, if there was another floating
point program around, your registers were corrupted!

Over 8 months to diagnose the problem.  Just 2 minutes to fix it!

Story 9:

I received umpty-three million requests at LISA, from people
that wanted me to e-mail them the text of NET's infamous
"Eng_Adm Get List" T-shirt.   So here it is, even if you
didn't want it. :-)

(Eng_Adm is our systems administration mail alias)

FRONT

* I didn't touch a thing. * Why can`t you give me the root password? * I
want
more disk space, now! * It was working fine a minute ago. * I typed rm -rf,
but I didn't really mean to. *  How come SPARC binaries won't work on my
3/50?
* I just turned it off and on a couple of times. * What's an alias? * It
must
be a hardware problem. * This will only take you a minute. * Can you restore
/tmp/junk from February of 87? * X Windows isn't working on my VT100! * I
didn't realize the type of coax made any difference. * How do I post an
article to alt.sex.bondage? * I just plugged my RS-232 port into my phone
jack. * Is the unix broken? * My bin directory is missing! * Someone
spilled
coffee on my keyboard. * I need to be the owner of all of the files in
/usr/kvm. * How can I send mail to my friend on BITNET? * What makes you
think
it is my software? * My Mac is much easier to use. * Why is her disk quota
bigger than mine? * What jumpers? * I can't login to my ethernet. * Don't
you
know where I put my source code? * I need to borrow your CD-ROM for 2
months. *
Where can I find all of those GIF files? * Honest, it just stopped working.
*
But I like the old OS a lot better. * Can you read this TK50 VMS tape onto
my
Sun? * I can do it... I used to be a Systems Administrator. * Can`t this be
done after I go home? * It says, "Run fsck manually". * I need you to
reboot
my floppy drive. * What does RTFM mean? * How hard can it be to do a simple
upgrade? * My system just crashed. * Now how did that file get in there? *
But
the vendor says this should be, "Plug and play". * This is going to cost us
how much!? * A System Administrator doesn't do hardware. * My machine needs
more memory. * Is my monitor suppose to smoke? * Just stay late. * It was
fine,
until I moved the disk drive over to there. * I can guarantee you that my
program is flawless. * Oops... *

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

BACK


            Eng_Adm "Get List"

            [X] A Clue

            [X] A Life

            [X] Lost


            Remember... just send mail.


Copyright ) 1992 Network Equipment Technologies, Inc. All rights reserved.

Story 10:
A Dec F/S rep in to service a line printer managed to trip on the power
cord to a DEC 11/750.    An operator trying to be helpful immediately (no
intermediate steps) plugged the power back in, faulting the system.
Upon the F/S rep's request to hit the reset, a second operator
hit the reset on the wrong 11/750.  All mail, printing and a
substantial number of other services at a small but busy academic
site to came to an abrupt mid-day halt.

Story 11:
A system administrator logged in to a fileserver from home after two
days of vacation to find her environment not working as expected.
Some poking around revealed that the filesystem supporting /usr/local
had been unmounted after disk problems.     A call to the night
operator to see if more info was available yielded the message "the
system was down" waiting for F/S.    The systems administrator's
manager was shocked to find her in early next morning using the "dead"
system's console to distribute alternate /usr/local mount
configurations to the 15 desktops that received it from the server.

Back tracking of the problem revealed that the system was probably
pronounced dead after help desk/operations staff could not login using
a non-standard shell found in /usr/local.    No evidence could be found
that a software support person had been consulted or that anyone other than
users had actually looked at the physical system.    A user was
determined as being the person responsible for removing /usr/local from
mount configurations and bringing the system up multiuser.

Story 12
After testing a new nfs patch on a few test cases, an administrator
began batch kernel installation and system reboots on 5 Sun Servers,
~50 clients, ~15 diskful desktops.    One server on which the others
had the several dependencies failed to reboot.   This server was also the
only one with a spare client slot.  It had the only  tape drive that
could support the SunOS install tapes for it's architecture that was
immediately accessible to the administrator.  The system administrator
determined the server could not be fixed in single user.  It was not
going to be possible to borrow a tape drive off hours.  The
administrator proceded to juggle filespace on another server to setup a
client slot for booting over the net.

About this time,  numerous nfs woes surfaced.   The administrator
proceded to address references  to the down server.   After these
had been addressed (including a few reboots),  the administrator
realized that the test cases hadn't determined the nfs patch would
cause more problems than it solved.  Life was going to be miserable
until it was removed.  The distribution mechanisms then in use were
partially dependent on nfs, so the patch had to be backed out manually
on systems that had come up.     [Fortunately, the practice was to halt
diskless clients and distribute nfs/lockd patches to /export/root on
the servers after the servers  came up using the new patch.     None of
the diskless clients had yet been rebooted.]

Once the patches were backed out and the dead server was finally
booted over the net, examination of the root filesystems revealed that
a *well intentioned* person had, without informing the administrator,
very recently resolved a root overflow problem by making the
contents of /sbin links to /usr.

                -- John
John Rouillard

Special Projects Volunteer    University of Massachusetts at Boston
rouilj at cs.umb.edu (preferred)    Boston, MA, (617) 287-6480
===============================================================================
My employers don't acknowledge my existence much less my opinions.
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From wes.parish at paradise.net.nz  Sun Oct 14 19:58:11 2012
From: wes.parish at paradise.net.nz (Wesley Parish)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 22:58:11 +1300
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
Message-ID: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>

I had a look at OSNews.com and found a story about a nifty little  
terminal and its OS called Blit.

http://www.osnews.com/story/26315/ 
Blit_a_multitasking_windowed_UNIX_GUI_from_1982

I suspect getting hold of it would be like getting blood from a  
stone, much like getting the Research Unix source trees ... but still  
it would be interesting to look at if at all possible.

Wesley Parish


From wkb at xs4all.nl  Sun Oct 14 20:32:04 2012
From: wkb at xs4all.nl (Wilko Bulte)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 12:32:04 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>

We had a couple of those at work (Philips Information Systems) in the late 80s. They have long been scrapped I'd imagine.. 😳

Wilko

On 14 okt. 2012, at 11:58, Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> I had a look at OSNews.com and found a story about a nifty little terminal and its OS called Blit.
> 
> http://www.osnews.com/story/26315/Blit_a_multitasking_windowed_UNIX_GUI_from_1982
> 
> I suspect getting hold of it would be like getting blood from a stone, much like getting the Research Unix source trees ... but still it would be interesting to look at if at all possible.
> 
> Wesley Parish
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From arnold at skeeve.com  Sun Oct 14 20:48:43 2012
From: arnold at skeeve.com (arnold at skeeve.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:48:43 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>

The code for the 630 (a followon to the blit) was GPL2'ed at some point
and I have it, although I don't remember where I got it.  I will try to
send it to Warren for addition to the archives.

I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was overloaded
so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The keyboard
was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button round
Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)

I wonder if you couldn't find some of these still on eBay or something.

Arnold
---------------
Wilko Bulte <wkb at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> We had a couple of those at work (Philips Information Systems) in the late 80s. They have long been scrapped I'd imagine.. ␦
>
> Wilko
>
> On 14 okt. 2012, at 11:58, Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> > I had a look at OSNews.com and found a story about a nifty little terminal and its OS called Blit.
> > 
> > http://www.osnews.com/story/26315/Blit_a_multitasking_windowed_UNIX_GUI_from_1982
> > 
> > I suspect getting hold of it would be like getting blood from a stone, much like getting the Research Unix source trees ... but still it would be interesting to look at if at all possible.
> > 
> > Wesley Parish
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From arnold at skeeve.com  Sun Oct 14 20:54:50 2012
From: arnold at skeeve.com (arnold at skeeve.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:54:50 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
Message-ID: <201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>

OK: Here is where I got stuff from:

	http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/att/5620/

Enjoy,

Arnold
-------------------------------
arnold at skeeve.com wrote:

> The code for the 630 (a followon to the blit) was GPL2'ed at some point
> and I have it, although I don't remember where I got it.  I will try to
> send it to Warren for addition to the archives.
>
> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was overloaded
> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The keyboard
> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button round
> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)
>
> I wonder if you couldn't find some of these still on eBay or something.
>
> Arnold
> ---------------
> Wilko Bulte <wkb at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > We had a couple of those at work (Philips Information Systems) in the late 80s. They have long been scrapped I'd imagine.. ␦
> >
> > Wilko
> >
> > On 14 okt. 2012, at 11:58, Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> >
> > > I had a look at OSNews.com and found a story about a nifty little terminal and its OS called Blit.
> > > 
> > > http://www.osnews.com/story/26315/Blit_a_multitasking_windowed_UNIX_GUI_from_1982
> > > 
> > > I suspect getting hold of it would be like getting blood from a stone, much like getting the Research Unix source trees ... but still it would be interesting to look at if at all possible.
> > > 
> > > Wesley Parish
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TUHS mailing list
> > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From artistenator at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 04:16:38 2012
From: artistenator at gmail.com (Brian Zick)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:16:38 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
Message-ID: <CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>

> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was overloaded
> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The keyboard
> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button round
> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)

What does a Blit 3-button round Depraz mouse look like? I've searched,
but alas I have not found.

Brian Zick
zickzickzick.com


From brantley at coraid.com  Mon Oct 15 04:47:57 2012
From: brantley at coraid.com (Brantley Coile)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 13:47:57 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>

Like a lady bug with no spots.  I have a 730 in my office. 

iPhone email

On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brian Zick" <artistenator at gmail.com> wrote:

>> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was overloaded
>> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The keyboard
>> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button round
>> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)
> 
> What does a Blit 3-button round Depraz mouse look like? I've searched,
> but alas I have not found.
> 
> Brian Zick
> zickzickzick.com
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu  Mon Oct 15 06:21:36 2012
From: BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu (Benjamin Huntsman)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:21:36 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
Message-ID: <5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>

Like this:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/87479714 at N05/8087576305/

That one has the Bell Labs USB modification, and works like a charm under Windows 7! :)

-Ben

________________________________________
From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] on behalf of Brantley Coile [brantley at coraid.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:47 AM
To: Brian Zick
Cc: tuhs at tuhs.org; arnold at skeeve.com
Subject: Re: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS

Like a lady bug with no spots.  I have a 730 in my office.

iPhone email

On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brian Zick" <artistenator at gmail.com> wrote:

>> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was overloaded
>> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The keyboard
>> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button round
>> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)
>
> What does a Blit 3-button round Depraz mouse look like? I've searched,
> but alas I have not found.
>
> Brian Zick
> zickzickzick.com
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

From scj at yaccman.com  Mon Oct 15 09:00:53 2012
From: scj at yaccman.com (scj at yaccman.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 16:00:53 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
	<5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
Message-ID: <71ce898ee9415e781ed51d35044e6b05.squirrel@webmail.yaccman.com>

This brings back fond memories.  Applications running on the main computer
downloaded custom code to run on the Blit--this was the biggest
challenge--writing an application to run on two machines at once, with two
different OS's, different hardware and different endian-ness.  When it was
working, it was great, but debugging new code could be a real challenge.

Steve


> Like this:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/87479714 at N05/8087576305/
>
> That one has the Bell Labs USB modification, and works like a charm under
> Windows 7! :)
>
> -Ben
>
> ________________________________________
> From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] on
> behalf of Brantley Coile [brantley at coraid.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:47 AM
> To: Brian Zick
> Cc: tuhs at tuhs.org; arnold at skeeve.com
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
>
> Like a lady bug with no spots.  I have a 730 in my office.
>
> iPhone email
>
> On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brian Zick" <artistenator at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was
>>> overloaded
>>> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The
>>> keyboard
>>> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button
>>> round
>>> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)
>>
>> What does a Blit 3-button round Depraz mouse look like? I've searched,
>> but alas I have not found.
>>
>> Brian Zick
>> zickzickzick.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>




From artistenator at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 09:14:12 2012
From: artistenator at gmail.com (Brian Zick)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:14:12 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
	<5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
Message-ID: <CAEvOwxUXveco8VGgitPWd6xb3tUU6xjBsMuRESc=8DGXZZnFHw@mail.gmail.com>

That DOES look like a ladybug without any spots. I've been using one
of those "magic" mouses from Apple. I've been fine with it but others
can hardly seem to use it without swearing. Of course I had to set it
up for three buttons, but they are "invisible". I do wish it came in a
corded version.

Brian Zick
zickzickzick.com


On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 4:21 PM, Benjamin Huntsman
<BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu> wrote:
> Like this:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/87479714 at N05/8087576305/
>
> That one has the Bell Labs USB modification, and works like a charm under Windows 7! :)
>
> -Ben
>
> ________________________________________
> From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] on behalf of Brantley Coile [brantley at coraid.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:47 AM
> To: Brian Zick
> Cc: tuhs at tuhs.org; arnold at skeeve.com
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
>
> Like a lady bug with no spots.  I have a 730 in my office.
>
> iPhone email
>
> On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brian Zick" <artistenator at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was overloaded
>>> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The keyboard
>>> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button round
>>> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)
>>
>> What does a Blit 3-button round Depraz mouse look like? I've searched,
>> but alas I have not found.
>>
>> Brian Zick
>> zickzickzick.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From lm at bitmover.com  Mon Oct 15 10:24:44 2012
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 17:24:44 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <71ce898ee9415e781ed51d35044e6b05.squirrel@webmail.yaccman.com>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
	<5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
	<71ce898ee9415e781ed51d35044e6b05.squirrel@webmail.yaccman.com>
Message-ID: <20121015002444.GC20292@bitmover.com>

My fond memories, if my old brain doesn't fail me, is being a TA at
the University of Wisconsin.  I shared an office with another TA,
we had one BLIT but I managed to scrounge another one.  We had a
serial line that ran from our building to the building that had 
all the vaxen, just one.

So I bread boarded some 8051's (I think that's them, they were 8 bit
computers that you could flash).  What I noticed was that all the stuff
we did was 8 bit clean, only used the lower 7.  So, 8th bit was the mux.
On was me, off was my office mate.  I programmed the 8051's and convinced
the lab (run by Paul Beebe, he still around?  Wouldn't be surprised if
he's on the list) to let me stick one in there, the other in our office,
presto!  Two BLITs and two extremely happy TA's.

I *loved* the BLIT, it was pretty much everything I wanted from a terminal,
it was like the NCD Xterminal only a decade or two sooner.  And kind of 
more cool because it worked over a serial line.

--lm

P.S. Pretty cool that I'm responding to the guy who wrote yacc.  Thanks
for that, I've gotten a lot done with lex/yacc over the years.  As have
countless other people.  Might be interesting to hear your storie about
what people have done with yacc - has anyone ever added up how many
yacc grammers there are out there?

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 04:00:53PM -0700, scj at yaccman.com wrote:
> This brings back fond memories.  Applications running on the main computer
> downloaded custom code to run on the Blit--this was the biggest
> challenge--writing an application to run on two machines at once, with two
> different OS's, different hardware and different endian-ness.  When it was
> working, it was great, but debugging new code could be a real challenge.
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> > Like this:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/87479714 at N05/8087576305/
> >
> > That one has the Bell Labs USB modification, and works like a charm under
> > Windows 7! :)
> >
> > -Ben
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] on
> > behalf of Brantley Coile [brantley at coraid.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:47 AM
> > To: Brian Zick
> > Cc: tuhs at tuhs.org; arnold at skeeve.com
> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
> >
> > Like a lady bug with no spots.  I have a 730 in my office.
> >
> > iPhone email
> >
> > On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brian Zick" <artistenator at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was
> >>> overloaded
> >>> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The
> >>> keyboard
> >>> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button
> >>> round
> >>> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)
> >>
> >> What does a Blit 3-button round Depraz mouse look like? I've searched,
> >> but alas I have not found.
> >>
> >> Brian Zick
> >> zickzickzick.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> TUHS mailing list
> >> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com


From gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 11:08:28 2012
From: gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com (Gregg Levine)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 21:08:28 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <20121015002444.GC20292@bitmover.com>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
	<5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
	<71ce898ee9415e781ed51d35044e6b05.squirrel@webmail.yaccman.com>
	<20121015002444.GC20292@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <CAC5iaNEjeqC47tphX+XrGWrobVfdi8oQmhCf2UQvtmmeuG9BUQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 8:24 PM, Larry McVoy <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
> My fond memories, if my old brain doesn't fail me, is being a TA at
> the University of Wisconsin.  I shared an office with another TA,
> we had one BLIT but I managed to scrounge another one.  We had a
> serial line that ran from our building to the building that had
> all the vaxen, just one.
>
> So I bread boarded some 8051's (I think that's them, they were 8 bit
> computers that you could flash).  What I noticed was that all the stuff
> we did was 8 bit clean, only used the lower 7.  So, 8th bit was the mux.
> On was me, off was my office mate.  I programmed the 8051's and convinced
> the lab (run by Paul Beebe, he still around?  Wouldn't be surprised if
> he's on the list) to let me stick one in there, the other in our office,
> presto!  Two BLITs and two extremely happy TA's.
>
> I *loved* the BLIT, it was pretty much everything I wanted from a terminal,
> it was like the NCD Xterminal only a decade or two sooner.  And kind of
> more cool because it worked over a serial line.
>
> --lm
>
> P.S. Pretty cool that I'm responding to the guy who wrote yacc.  Thanks
> for that, I've gotten a lot done with lex/yacc over the years.  As have
> countless other people.  Might be interesting to hear your storie about
> what people have done with yacc - has anyone ever added up how many
> yacc grammers there are out there?
>
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 04:00:53PM -0700, scj at yaccman.com wrote:
>> This brings back fond memories.  Applications running on the main computer
>> downloaded custom code to run on the Blit--this was the biggest
>> challenge--writing an application to run on two machines at once, with two
>> different OS's, different hardware and different endian-ness.  When it was
>> working, it was great, but debugging new code could be a real challenge.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> > Like this:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/87479714 at N05/8087576305/
>> >
>> > That one has the Bell Labs USB modification, and works like a charm under
>> > Windows 7! :)
>> >
>> > -Ben
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From: tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org [tuhs-bounces at minnie.tuhs.org] on
>> > behalf of Brantley Coile [brantley at coraid.com]
>> > Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2012 11:47 AM
>> > To: Brian Zick
>> > Cc: tuhs at tuhs.org; arnold at skeeve.com
>> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
>> >
>> > Like a lady bug with no spots.  I have a 730 in my office.
>> >
>> > iPhone email
>> >
>> > On Oct 14, 2012, at 11:18 AM, "Brian Zick" <artistenator at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> I used a 5620 for a while, hooked up to a BSD 4.1 Vax. The vax was
>> >>> overloaded
>> >>> so things were slow, but it was a relatively pleasant environment. The
>> >>> keyboard
>> >>> was really nice, and there are still people who pine for the 3-button
>> >>> round
>> >>> Depraz (sp?) mouse... :-)
>> >>
>> >> What does a Blit 3-button round Depraz mouse look like? I've searched,
>> >> but alas I have not found.
>> >>
>> >> Brian Zick
>> >> zickzickzick.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> TUHS mailing list
>> >> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> >> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TUHS mailing list
>> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > TUHS mailing list
>> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TUHS mailing list
>> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
>> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


Hello!
Great government! I saw one of those and a 3B at the Vintage Computer
Festival last May. The terminal worked fine, the computer kept telling
the two people to go ******** themselves.

-----
Gregg C Levine gregg.drwho8 at gmail.com
"This signature fought the Time Wars, time and again."


From pdagog at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 16:46:44 2012
From: pdagog at gmail.com (Pierre DAVID)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 08:46:44 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T video : the UNIX system (1982)
In-Reply-To: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
Message-ID: <20121015064644.GA46306@vagabond.u-strasbg.fr>

On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 10:58:11PM +1300, Wesley Parish wrote:
> I had a look at OSNews.com and found a story about a nifty little  
> terminal and its OS called Blit.
> 
> http://www.osnews.com/story/26315/ 
> Blit_a_multitasking_windowed_UNIX_GUI_from_1982
> 
> I suspect getting hold of it would be like getting blood from a  
> stone, much like getting the Research Unix source trees ... but still  
> it would be interesting to look at if at all possible.
> 

On the same AT&T archive site, nobody mentionned:
    http://techchannel.att.com/play-video.cfm/2012/2/22/AT&T-Archives-The-UNIX-System

Extract from the presentation:
    This film "The UNIX System: Making Computers More Productive",
    is one of two that Bell Labs made in 1982 about UNIX's significance,
    impact and usability. Even 10 years after its first installation,
    it's still an introduction to the system. The other film, "The
    UNIX System: Making Computers Easier to Use", is roughly the
    same, only a little shorter. The former film was geared towards
    software developers and computer science students, the latter
    towards programmers specifically.

    The film contains interviews with primary developers Ritchie,
    Thompson, Brian Kernighan, and many others.

This film is a "must see" for all tuhs-icians,

Pierre


From dfevans at sekrit.eu  Mon Oct 15 16:53:49 2012
From: dfevans at sekrit.eu (David Evans)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:53:49 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
	<5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
Message-ID: <CAA2FD31-B6F9-4AA8-923B-AC06FB5D945C@sekrit.eu>

On 14 Oct 2012, at 21:21, Benjamin Huntsman <BHuntsman at mail2.cu-portland.edu> wrote:

> Like this:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/87479714 at N05/8087576305/
> 

Alas those of us who came along 8 or so years later had only the DEC VSXXX to enjoy.




From peter at rulingia.com  Mon Oct 15 19:10:31 2012
From: peter at rulingia.com (Peter Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 20:10:31 +1100
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Blit terminal plus terminal OS
In-Reply-To: <20121015002444.GC20292@bitmover.com>
References: <E45FDE4C-E70C-40D2-BD1B-B440C4C0954F@paradise.net.nz>
	<D0C49AC2-522D-4896-8C60-1485C3E9ABFB@xs4all.nl>
	<201210141048.q9EAmh8k025730@freefriends.org>
	<201210141054.q9EAsora026032@freefriends.org>
	<CAEvOwxUUKdBrqXMwaBt-DCU0tHbjFKF+h+ttOQF_epsc6GmBVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0744F80-5E54-4A06-B1F3-201106CFC412@coraid.com>
	<5782C16A7C920E469B74E11B5608B8E723B14598@Kriegler.ntdom.cupdx>
	<71ce898ee9415e781ed51d35044e6b05.squirrel@webmail.yaccman.com>
	<20121015002444.GC20292@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <20121015091031.GB33428@server.rulingia.com>

On 2012-Oct-14 17:24:44 -0700, Larry McVoy <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
>So I bread boarded some 8051's (I think that's them, they were 8 bit
>computers that you could flash).

Intel made 2 8-bit microcontroller families - MCS-48 (introduced 1976)
and MCS-51 (introduced 1980).  Both had EEPROM variants (8748 and
8751).  I used variants of both during the 1980's.

Both families are still around - in particular, the 8042 still present
in spirit in your IBM-compatible PC is a MCS-48 variant.

-- 
Peter Jeremy
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From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 09:18:12 2012
From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:18:12 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] gatekeeper mirror?
Message-ID: <CAFCBnZvz8k_762GoqNMtOxFs07yGcDZme6N5ojg-UtKaRoUEUw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Does anyone have a mirror of the old ftp site gatekeeper.dec.com? I have
only a small fragment of it, but I'd very much like a full copy. I believe
I have a full copy of ftp.uu.net from October 2003, if anyone's interested.

Also, I apologize if this question is considered inappropriate here, but
did anyone manage to snag a full copy of the titor-special torrent?



Thanks,
Phil Garcia
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From arnold at skeeve.com  Thu Oct 18 05:57:46 2012
From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 21:57:46 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] off-topic: retrocomputing: HP Laserjet 6MP question
Message-ID: <201210171957.q9HJvkxx004008@skeeve.com>

Hello All.

This is a bit off topic, but I figure people on this list may have the
experience and also the knowledge I need...

I have an HP Laserjet 6MP printer; it is 16 years old but still going
strong. It has a level 2 Adobe Postscript interpreter and a whopping 3
Megs of memory.

It is attached to an ethernet-to-parallel port thingy that lets me spool
to it over the network; I am printing from Linux systems running CUPS. Here's
the problem:

No matter how I have the printer settings set for the paper source, when I
use tiff2ps to convert a TIFF file into PostScript:

1. If I use the 'make level 2 postcript' option to tiff2ps, I get a much
   smaller file, but the printer decides it wants paper to come from the
   manual feed paper tray.  The problem is that this paper tray usually
   doesn't have paper in it, so I have to go to the basement and put paper in.

2. OTOH, if I use the default which makes level 1 postscript, I get a file
   that is 10 times bigger, but the printer then decides it will take paper
   from the tray, like it's supposed to.

I keep the postscript file around for easy reprinting. I don't care for
big files, and they take longer to send, too.

Googling has not helped.

If anyone knows what kind of magic string to add to the generated level 2
postscript to make it choose a paper source, or has any other ideas, I
would love to hear from you.

Thanks!

Arnold Robbins


From venture37 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 19 08:51:20 2012
From: venture37 at gmail.com (Sevan / Venture37)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 23:51:20 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
Message-ID: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s

"SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"

My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both 
supported 32bit addressing.

Sevan


From grog at lemis.com  Fri Oct 19 09:40:41 2012
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:40:41 +1100
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121018234041.GB96785@eureka.lemis.com>

On Thursday, 18 October 2012 at 23:51:20 +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
>
> "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
>
> My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both
> supported 32bit addressing.

They're also 32 bit internally.  I'd never think of either as a 16 bit
machine.

Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft MUA reports
problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
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From clemc at ccc.com  Sat Oct 20 06:44:27 2012
From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:44:27 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <20121018234041.GB96785@eureka.lemis.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>
	<20121018234041.GB96785@eureka.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <F4B07803-8CC0-4EF8-9668-878B4CAE0B0E@ccc.com>

Greg

the 68000 and 68010 were 16 bit internals. ie a 16 bit barrel shifter and it took 2 ticks to perform 32 bit ops.    a natural int was indeed 16 bits in the base registers although they also could be used as 32 bit registers (2 ticks ) so some 68k compilers defined int as 16 others as 32 (more in a minute). it technically was LP32 not ILP32

the external logic (ie pins) supported 24 bits of address.   moto fortunately passed all 32 bits along on the first chip and onto storage (thank you Les & Nick) so when later versions had a full  32 bit shifter everything just worked.  this meant that both chips supported 32bit addressing.  So while the machine operated 16 bits at a time the programmer had a full 32 bit view (and eventually a 32 bit virtual address space) even though the chip only supported 24 bits of address and operated 16 bits of data at a time. 


They're so even thought they were 16 bit internally.  I'd never think of either chop as a 16 bit machine

as for 16/32 bit argument - the hacked C compiler that Glasser and I cobbled together in 1979 at Tektronix used 16 bit.   IIRC the rts guys (jack test et al) used 32 bits at day one even though the natural int was 16 bits. 



there were advantages to both solutions and Jeff Mogul and i used argue about.  looking back on the 68000 in hind sight MIT got it right and while it worked mildly faster a 16 bit int was a bad idea

Clem

PS but I agree.  SunOS never ran on a pure 16 not machine.  on fact they started with compiler derived from Test et al.  



PPS. we relived this whole argument with 64 bits and it was interesting that we generally came to think LP64 made more sense for chips like Alpha

On Oct 18, 2012, at 6:40 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, 18 October 2012 at 23:51:20 +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
>> 
>> "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
>> 
>> My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both
>> supported 32bit addressing.
> 
> They're also 32 bit internally.  I'd never think of either as a 16 bit
> machine.
> 
> Greg
> --
> Sent from my desktop computer.
> Finger grog at FreeBSD.org for PGP public key.
> See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
> This message is digitally signed.  If your Microsoft MUA reports
> problems, please read http://tinyurl.com/broken-mua
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From cowan at mercury.ccil.org  Sat Oct 20 06:54:28 2012
From: cowan at mercury.ccil.org (John Cowan)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 16:54:28 -0400
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <F4B07803-8CC0-4EF8-9668-878B4CAE0B0E@ccc.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>
	<20121018234041.GB96785@eureka.lemis.com>
	<F4B07803-8CC0-4EF8-9668-878B4CAE0B0E@ccc.com>
Message-ID: <20121019205428.GD6410@mercury.ccil.org>

Clem Cole scripsit:

> the 68000 and 68010 were 16 bit internals. ie a 16 bit barrel shifter
> and it took 2 ticks to perform 32 bit ops.    a natural int was indeed
> 16 bits in the base registers although they also could be used as
> 32 bit registers (2 ticks ) so some 68k compilers defined int as 16
> others as 32 (more in a minute). it technically was LP32 not ILP32

Sounds like the 8088, which used an 8-bit bus but 16-bit registers
and operations.

-- 
John Cowan <cowan at ccil.org>             http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
Sir, I quite agree with you, but what are we two against so many?
    --George Bernard Shaw,
         to a man booing at the opening of _Arms and the Man_


From peter at rulingia.com  Sat Oct 20 08:13:14 2012
From: peter at rulingia.com (Peter Jeremy)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:13:14 +1100
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <20121019205428.GD6410@mercury.ccil.org>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>
	<20121018234041.GB96785@eureka.lemis.com>
	<F4B07803-8CC0-4EF8-9668-878B4CAE0B0E@ccc.com>
	<20121019205428.GD6410@mercury.ccil.org>
Message-ID: <20121019221314.GR33428@server.rulingia.com>

On 2012-Oct-19 15:44:27 -0500, Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com> wrote:
>the 68000 and 68010 were 16 bit internals.

It depends whether you are talking implementation or architecture.
The M68000 architecture was basically 32 bits (Motorola initially
skimped on the multiply & divide instructions and referred to it as a
"16-/32-bit architecture"), though the initial implementation used a
16-bit ALU.

To go back further, the IBM System/360 was a 32-bit architecture but
the low-end implementation (360/20) only had 8-bit wide memory and an
8-bit wide ALU and there was also a 16-bit wide implementation.

>the external logic (ie pins) supported 24 bits of address.  moto
>fortunately passed all 32 bits along on the first chip and onto
>storage (thank you Les & Nick) so when later versions had a full 32
>bit shifter everything just worked.

They clearly defined that the programmer's view was a 32-bit address
but some implementations didn't map all the address bits onto pins.
Note that this approach of only physically implementing a subset of
the address bus has continued into the 64-bit chips - most chips only
have 36-40 physical address bits and 40-48 logical address bits.
(Though one big difference is that the unimplemented address bits are
validated instead of ignored).

>PPS. we relived this whole argument with 64 bits and it was
>interesting that we generally came to think LP64 made more sense for
>chips like Alpha

I think a lot of this was also driven by the large amount of software
that was ILP32.  Converting int from 32- to 64-bits would add a lot
of pain for very little benefit.  Just making code work with LP64 was
painful enough.

On 2012-Oct-19 16:54:28 -0400, John Cowan <cowan at mercury.ccil.org> wrote:
>Sounds like the 8088, which used an 8-bit bus but 16-bit registers
>and operations.

The 8088 and 68008 were basically 8086/68000 chips with reworked bus
interface logic so that the external data bus was only 8-bit (and the
68008 also cut the address bus from 24- to 20-bits).  Other than being
slower, they appeared the same as their 16-bit cousins.  They were
aimed at applications where price was more important than performance:
Using the 8088 meant that IBM only needed 8 64Kx1 DRAM chips and the
68008 used a much smaller and cheaper 40-pin DIP instead of the 64-pin
DIP needed for the 68000.

-- 
Peter Jeremy
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From lm at bitmover.com  Mon Oct 22 10:33:25 2012
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2012 17:33:25 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121022003325.GA7250@bitmover.com>

Did anyone watch his talk?  I just tried and couldn't make out what he was
talking about.

Bryan's a smart guy but a little subjective.  I spent a day wandering
around San Franciso with him (we used to live within a few blocks of
each other) talking tech stuff, hardware, os, etc.  He was completely
rational, smart, insightful, until we got to either sparc or solaris.
Then he was subjective as hell, he just couldn't back away from them
enough to make an objective comparison to other solutions. 

Funny thing was that so long as sparc/solaris weren't the subject matter
he was very objective, could see the pros/cons of anything.

I guess he drank the Sun koolaid.


On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:51:20PM +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
> 
> "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
> 
> My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both
> supported 32bit addressing.
> 
> Sevan
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com


From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com  Mon Oct 22 23:01:44 2012
From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:01:44 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <20121022003325.GA7250@bitmover.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com> <20121022003325.GA7250@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <CAFCBnZuWD10oDW_fMnz1kZyZaashDN+0-Za3tb3zdokSQhfcsA@mail.gmail.com>

I watched one he gave at a usenix conference where he sort of recapped some
of the history of solaris and how oracle ruined everything and drove away
all the talent. Whether he had a valid point or not, it wasn't very
becoming. I don't know..it just never looks good when you air that stuff
out in public.

That said, it's hard to exaggerate the brilliance of dtrace. Like a
uw-madison professor said about some of the work that inspired it, it's
like watching in fine detail the inner parts of an engine move while going
down the highway at 60 mph.
On Oct 21, 2012 7:56 PM, "Larry McVoy" <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:

> Did anyone watch his talk?  I just tried and couldn't make out what he was
> talking about.
>
> Bryan's a smart guy but a little subjective.  I spent a day wandering
> around San Franciso with him (we used to live within a few blocks of
> each other) talking tech stuff, hardware, os, etc.  He was completely
> rational, smart, insightful, until we got to either sparc or solaris.
> Then he was subjective as hell, he just couldn't back away from them
> enough to make an objective comparison to other solutions.
>
> Funny thing was that so long as sparc/solaris weren't the subject matter
> he was very objective, could see the pros/cons of anything.
>
> I guess he drank the Sun koolaid.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:51:20PM +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
> >
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
> >
> > "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
> >
> > My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both
> > supported 32bit addressing.
> >
> > Sevan
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> http://www.bitkeeper.com
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
>
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From lm at bitmover.com  Mon Oct 22 23:34:37 2012
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 06:34:37 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <CAFCBnZuWD10oDW_fMnz1kZyZaashDN+0-Za3tb3zdokSQhfcsA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com> <20121022003325.GA7250@bitmover.com>
	<CAFCBnZuWD10oDW_fMnz1kZyZaashDN+0-Za3tb3zdokSQhfcsA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121022133437.GB7250@bitmover.com>

Which professor and which work?   I'm guessing Bart.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:01:44AM -0500, A. P. Garcia wrote:
> I watched one he gave at a usenix conference where he sort of recapped some
> of the history of solaris and how oracle ruined everything and drove away
> all the talent. Whether he had a valid point or not, it wasn't very
> becoming. I don't know..it just never looks good when you air that stuff
> out in public.
> 
> That said, it's hard to exaggerate the brilliance of dtrace. Like a
> uw-madison professor said about some of the work that inspired it, it's
> like watching in fine detail the inner parts of an engine move while going
> down the highway at 60 mph.
> On Oct 21, 2012 7:56 PM, "Larry McVoy" <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
> 
> > Did anyone watch his talk?  I just tried and couldn't make out what he was
> > talking about.
> >
> > Bryan's a smart guy but a little subjective.  I spent a day wandering
> > around San Franciso with him (we used to live within a few blocks of
> > each other) talking tech stuff, hardware, os, etc.  He was completely
> > rational, smart, insightful, until we got to either sparc or solaris.
> > Then he was subjective as hell, he just couldn't back away from them
> > enough to make an objective comparison to other solutions.
> >
> > Funny thing was that so long as sparc/solaris weren't the subject matter
> > he was very objective, could see the pros/cons of anything.
> >
> > I guess he drank the Sun koolaid.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:51:20PM +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
> > >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
> > >
> > > "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
> > >
> > > My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both
> > > supported 32bit addressing.
> > >
> > > Sevan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TUHS mailing list
> > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >
> > --
> > ---
> > Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> > http://www.bitkeeper.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > TUHS mailing list
> > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> >

-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com


From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 00:05:46 2012
From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:05:46 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <20121022133437.GB7250@bitmover.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com> <20121022003325.GA7250@bitmover.com>
	<CAFCBnZuWD10oDW_fMnz1kZyZaashDN+0-Za3tb3zdokSQhfcsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121022133437.GB7250@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <CAFCBnZvkOAaCvUcih3Q--qm-4wA9qUYwTLCVuaZ23xnbK0N8tg@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, Bart Miller regarding "Fine-grained dynamic instrumentation of
commodity operating sytem kernels":
ftp://ftp.cs.wisc.edu/paradyn/papers/Tamches99FineGrained.pdf


On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Larry McVoy <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:

> Which professor and which work?   I'm guessing Bart.
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:01:44AM -0500, A. P. Garcia wrote:
> > I watched one he gave at a usenix conference where he sort of recapped
> some
> > of the history of solaris and how oracle ruined everything and drove away
> > all the talent. Whether he had a valid point or not, it wasn't very
> > becoming. I don't know..it just never looks good when you air that stuff
> > out in public.
> >
> > That said, it's hard to exaggerate the brilliance of dtrace. Like a
> > uw-madison professor said about some of the work that inspired it, it's
> > like watching in fine detail the inner parts of an engine move while
> going
> > down the highway at 60 mph.
> > On Oct 21, 2012 7:56 PM, "Larry McVoy" <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Did anyone watch his talk?  I just tried and couldn't make out what he
> was
> > > talking about.
> > >
> > > Bryan's a smart guy but a little subjective.  I spent a day wandering
> > > around San Franciso with him (we used to live within a few blocks of
> > > each other) talking tech stuff, hardware, os, etc.  He was completely
> > > rational, smart, insightful, until we got to either sparc or solaris.
> > > Then he was subjective as hell, he just couldn't back away from them
> > > enough to make an objective comparison to other solutions.
> > >
> > > Funny thing was that so long as sparc/solaris weren't the subject
> matter
> > > he was very objective, could see the pros/cons of anything.
> > >
> > > I guess he drank the Sun koolaid.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:51:20PM +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
> > > >
> > > > "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
> > > >
> > > > My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both
> > > > supported 32bit addressing.
> > > >
> > > > Sevan
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TUHS mailing list
> > > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > >
> > > --
> > > ---
> > > Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> > > http://www.bitkeeper.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > TUHS mailing list
> > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > >
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> http://www.bitkeeper.com
>
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From lm at bitmover.com  Tue Oct 23 00:13:09 2012
From: lm at bitmover.com (Larry McVoy)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:13:09 -0700
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <CAFCBnZvkOAaCvUcih3Q--qm-4wA9qUYwTLCVuaZ23xnbK0N8tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com> <20121022003325.GA7250@bitmover.com>
	<CAFCBnZuWD10oDW_fMnz1kZyZaashDN+0-Za3tb3zdokSQhfcsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121022133437.GB7250@bitmover.com>
	<CAFCBnZvkOAaCvUcih3Q--qm-4wA9qUYwTLCVuaZ23xnbK0N8tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20121022141309.GC7250@bitmover.com>

Go Bart.  I took some classes from him in grad school (I think, did
undergrad there as well), liked his style.  Smart guy.

Do the dtrace guys credit Bart at all?

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:05:46AM -0500, A. P. Garcia wrote:
> Yes, Bart Miller regarding "Fine-grained dynamic instrumentation of
> commodity operating sytem kernels":
> ftp://ftp.cs.wisc.edu/paradyn/papers/Tamches99FineGrained.pdf
> 
> 
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Larry McVoy <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
> 
> > Which professor and which work?   I'm guessing Bart.
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:01:44AM -0500, A. P. Garcia wrote:
> > > I watched one he gave at a usenix conference where he sort of recapped
> > some
> > > of the history of solaris and how oracle ruined everything and drove away
> > > all the talent. Whether he had a valid point or not, it wasn't very
> > > becoming. I don't know..it just never looks good when you air that stuff
> > > out in public.
> > >
> > > That said, it's hard to exaggerate the brilliance of dtrace. Like a
> > > uw-madison professor said about some of the work that inspired it, it's
> > > like watching in fine detail the inner parts of an engine move while
> > going
> > > down the highway at 60 mph.
> > > On Oct 21, 2012 7:56 PM, "Larry McVoy" <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Did anyone watch his talk?  I just tried and couldn't make out what he
> > was
> > > > talking about.
> > > >
> > > > Bryan's a smart guy but a little subjective.  I spent a day wandering
> > > > around San Franciso with him (we used to live within a few blocks of
> > > > each other) talking tech stuff, hardware, os, etc.  He was completely
> > > > rational, smart, insightful, until we got to either sparc or solaris.
> > > > Then he was subjective as hell, he just couldn't back away from them
> > > > enough to make an objective comparison to other solutions.
> > > >
> > > > Funny thing was that so long as sparc/solaris weren't the subject
> > matter
> > > > he was very objective, could see the pros/cons of anything.
> > > >
> > > > I guess he drank the Sun koolaid.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:51:20PM +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
> > > > >
> > > > > "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
> > > > >
> > > > > My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they both
> > > > > supported 32bit addressing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sevan
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > TUHS mailing list
> > > > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ---
> > > > Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> > > > http://www.bitkeeper.com
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > TUHS mailing list
> > > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > ---
> > Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> > http://www.bitkeeper.com
> >

-- 
---
Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com           http://www.bitkeeper.com


From a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com  Tue Oct 23 00:17:38 2012
From: a.phillip.garcia at gmail.com (A. P. Garcia)
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:17:38 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Bryan Cantrill on bfs & ta
In-Reply-To: <20121022141309.GC7250@bitmover.com>
References: <508087E8.7030309@gmail.com> <20121022003325.GA7250@bitmover.com>
	<CAFCBnZuWD10oDW_fMnz1kZyZaashDN+0-Za3tb3zdokSQhfcsA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121022133437.GB7250@bitmover.com>
	<CAFCBnZvkOAaCvUcih3Q--qm-4wA9qUYwTLCVuaZ23xnbK0N8tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20121022141309.GC7250@bitmover.com>
Message-ID: <CAFCBnZvZh8ug-xqGhyay=pqAPUVUcOm5t63U70RBkFZk-fh8fQ@mail.gmail.com>

yes, it's in the references here:
http://static.usenix.org/event/usenix04/tech/general/full_papers/cantrill/cantrill_html/

i'm pretty sure i saw it in the solaris documentation that cantrill wrote
as well..


On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Larry McVoy <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:

> Go Bart.  I took some classes from him in grad school (I think, did
> undergrad there as well), liked his style.  Smart guy.
>
> Do the dtrace guys credit Bart at all?
>
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 09:05:46AM -0500, A. P. Garcia wrote:
> > Yes, Bart Miller regarding "Fine-grained dynamic instrumentation of
> > commodity operating sytem kernels":
> > ftp://ftp.cs.wisc.edu/paradyn/papers/Tamches99FineGrained.pdf
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 8:34 AM, Larry McVoy <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Which professor and which work?   I'm guessing Bart.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 08:01:44AM -0500, A. P. Garcia wrote:
> > > > I watched one he gave at a usenix conference where he sort of
> recapped
> > > some
> > > > of the history of solaris and how oracle ruined everything and drove
> away
> > > > all the talent. Whether he had a valid point or not, it wasn't very
> > > > becoming. I don't know..it just never looks good when you air that
> stuff
> > > > out in public.
> > > >
> > > > That said, it's hard to exaggerate the brilliance of dtrace. Like a
> > > > uw-madison professor said about some of the work that inspired it,
> it's
> > > > like watching in fine detail the inner parts of an engine move while
> > > going
> > > > down the highway at 60 mph.
> > > > On Oct 21, 2012 7:56 PM, "Larry McVoy" <lm at bitmover.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Did anyone watch his talk?  I just tried and couldn't make out
> what he
> > > was
> > > > > talking about.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bryan's a smart guy but a little subjective.  I spent a day
> wandering
> > > > > around San Franciso with him (we used to live within a few blocks
> of
> > > > > each other) talking tech stuff, hardware, os, etc.  He was
> completely
> > > > > rational, smart, insightful, until we got to either sparc or
> solaris.
> > > > > Then he was subjective as hell, he just couldn't back away from
> them
> > > > > enough to make an objective comparison to other solutions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Funny thing was that so long as sparc/solaris weren't the subject
> > > matter
> > > > > he was very objective, could see the pros/cons of anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess he drank the Sun koolaid.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:51:20PM +0100, Sevan / Venture37 wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk8aZv0JJuk&feature=player_detailpage#t=3493s
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "SunOS has never run on a 16bit machine"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My response was M68000 & 386 but his counter response was they
> both
> > > > > > supported 32bit addressing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sevan
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > TUHS mailing list
> > > > > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > > > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> > > > > http://www.bitkeeper.com
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > TUHS mailing list
> > > > > TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > > > https://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs
> > > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ---
> > > Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> > > http://www.bitkeeper.com
> > >
>
> --
> ---
> Larry McVoy                lm at bitmover.com
> http://www.bitkeeper.com
>
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From clemc at ccc.com  Tue Oct 23 23:03:01 2012
From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole)
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:03:01 -0400
Subject: [TUHS]  gatekeeper mirror?
Message-ID: <CAC20D2PHASUn=nWKi4ARR5Trm43oACK5-f2yDZ4Hbk73q1PBpg@mail.gmail.com>

As I told Phil off-line, I wold ask around the DEC Unix alumni and see what
I could find out.

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:02 PM, Richard Schedler wrote:

> Before leaving HP Labs, I moved the Gatekeeper Archives over to
> apotheca.hpl.hp.com .  I just checked and was pleasantly surprised to see
> that they're still around.
>
>     --Richard
>


 HP Labs FTP Server



This is the FTP server for Hewlett-Packard Laboratories. It replaces the
following servers:

   - ftp.hpl.hp.com
   - gatekeeper.hpl.hp.com
   - gatekeeper.research.compaq.com
   - gatekeeper.dec.com

This system is not for file storage nor any other use without express
authorization from the Hewlett-Packard Company.

All logins and file transfers on this system are logged and monitored.

Please use the feedback link below to report problems or ask questions.
*Repository Services*

   - *Access the repository via FTP* <ftp://apotheca.hpl.hp.com/>
   - *Access the repository via HTTP* <http://apotheca.hpl.hp.com/ftp/>

*Other Information*

   - *What happened to
gatekeeper.dec.com?*<http://apotheca.hpl.hp.com/what-happened-to-gatekeeper.html>
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From arnold at skeeve.com  Mon Oct 29 00:03:21 2012
From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins)
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 16:03:21 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] USENIX 4.x BSD manuals free for the shipping
Message-ID: <201210281403.q9SE3LjB012716@skeeve.com>

Hello All.

I'm trying to clean up my basement.  I have the following:

USENIX 4.2 BSD manuals - 4 volumes
USENIX 4.3 BSD manuals - 6 volumes
USENIX / O'Reilly 4.4 BSD manuals - 5 volumes + CD-ROM companion

They are all in excellent shape - close to new actually.

First come first serve, if you're willing to pay postage from Israel.

I also have a copy of "Concurrent Euclid, Tunis, and the Unix system" which
I suspect is a fairly historic book that I'd like to send to a good home.

Please reply directly to me without bothering the list.

Thanks!

Arnold


From arnold at skeeve.com  Tue Oct 30 05:53:59 2012
From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 21:53:59 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] 4 BSD manuals committed
Message-ID: <201210291953.q9TJrxHZ003249@skeeve.com>

Hi All.

Thanks for the responses!  I have someone who replied first, so he gets
the manuals.  It's nice to know there are people who can give these things
good homes. :-)

Arnold


