From iking at killthewabbit.org  Fri Feb  7 18:18:37 2003
From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 00:18:37 -0800
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
Message-ID: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>

I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.  I also have a DECstation
5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a tape.
Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error
or "Error 21 - drive error".  The two ways I tried to put the boot files on
were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).  Depending on how I hacked
around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive
error" from the boot ROM monitor.

With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a
boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the
floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".

The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some
proprietary software for managing a parking lot.  :-)  I can boot to an RSX
prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most of
the machine appears to be working.

While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable
media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50;
I have blank tapes....  Either way, I hope someone can point me in the right
direction.  Thanks in advance -- Ian



From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Fri Feb  7 21:20:35 2003
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:20:35 +0000
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
In-Reply-To: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>
Message-ID: <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build 
this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the 
standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.

Cheers

Robin


In message <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac at dawabbit>, Ian King 
<iking at killthewabbit.org> writes
>I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
>list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
>2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.  I also have a DECstation
>5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a tape.
>Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error
>or "Error 21 - drive error".  The two ways I tried to put the boot files on
>were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
>instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).  Depending on how I hacked
>around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive
>error" from the boot ROM monitor.
>
>With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a
>boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
>mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the
>floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".
>
>The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some
>proprietary software for managing a parking lot.  :-)  I can boot to an RSX
>prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most of
>the machine appears to be working.
>
>While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable
>media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50;
>I have blank tapes....  Either way, I hope someone can point me in the right
>direction.  Thanks in advance -- Ian
>
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

-- 
Robin Birch



From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Feb  7 23:53:56 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 08:53:56 -0500
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
In-Reply-To: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>; from iking@killthewabbit.org on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 12:18:37AM -0800
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>
Message-ID: <20030207085356.A5249@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 12:18:37AM -0800, Ian King wrote:
> I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
> list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
> 2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.

  Sounds like a fun box.

> The two ways I tried to put the boot files on
> were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
> instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).

  Since I just went through this a few weeks ago, I'll mention that this won't
work because you won't ende up with the boot programmes aligned on block
boundaries.  The "maketape" command supposedly works well, and I made a tape
with it, but never did get around to trying to actually boot that tape.

> With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least a
> boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
> mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on the
> floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".
> 

  I don't know whether that would do anything useful, since AFAIK the boot
blocks assume tape.

> While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build bootable
> media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable TK50;
> I have blank tapes....

  Whereabouts are you?  Someone can likely help.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From chd_1 at nktelco.net  Sat Feb  8 00:11:50 2003
From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:11:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
In-Reply-To: <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>
        <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>

> Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
> this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
> standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
>
> Cheers
>
> Robin Birch

Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
that a TK50 is TMSCP.

-chuck





From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Feb  8 00:32:38 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:32:38 -0500
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
In-Reply-To: <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>; from chd_1@nktelco.net on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk> <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
> that a TK50 is TMSCP.
> 

  The TK50 is definately TMSCP.  You sure that the standalone system
can't handle it (my machine is at home and turned off right now, so I
can't check anything)?  If so then that's a major PITA and I guess
some hacking is in order.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From chd_1 at nktelco.net  Sat Feb  8 00:57:45 2003
From: chd_1 at nktelco.net (Chuck Dickman)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:57:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
In-Reply-To: <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>
        <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
        <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>
        <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <15367.209.143.24.164.1044629865.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>

> On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
>> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
>> that a TK50 is TMSCP.
>>

I am wrong. :-( It _is_ supported. :-)

>   The TK50 is definately TMSCP.  You sure that the standalone system
> can't handle it (my machine is at home and turned off right now, so I
> can't check anything)?  If so then that's a major PITA and I guess some
> hacking is in order.

Thats what I get for not looking at the sources. From mtboot.s:

 * Primary tape boot program to load and execute secondary boot.

 * This is a universal tape boot which can handle HT, TM, TS and TMSCP
 * tapes.  This boot is FULL.  Some of the more extended error
 * checking had to be left out to get all the drivers to fit.

> David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)

-chuck





From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Sat Feb  8 01:01:22 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:01:22 -0500
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
In-Reply-To: <15367.209.143.24.164.1044629865.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>; from chd_1@nktelco.net on Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:57:45AM -0500
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk> <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org> <20030207093238.A5356@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> <15367.209.143.24.164.1044629865.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20030207100122.A5406@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:57:45AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 09:11:50AM -0500, Chuck Dickman wrote:
> >> Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
> >> that a TK50 is TMSCP.
> >>
> 
> I am wrong. :-( It _is_ supported. :-)
> 

  Phew!

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Sat Feb  8 03:00:07 2003
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:00:07 +0000
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
In-Reply-To: <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit>
 <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
 <13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel@www.chd.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <rbARUnAXY+Q+Ewk5@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

In message 
<13943.209.143.24.164.1044627110.squirrel at www.chd.dyndns.org>, Chuck 
Dickman <chd_1 at nktelco.net> writes
>> Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
>> this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
>> standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Robin Birch
>
>Except I don't think the standalone system supports TMSCP and I think
>that a TK50 is TMSCP.
>
>-chuck
>
>
As you will have been told, it is supported, quite well in fact.  I have 
run 11/73s and 83s from TK50 and TMSCP exabyte drives for years and they 
work a treat.

You really need the maketape program.  You can then dd and tar the rest 
on to the tape but the initial step needs to be done the "official" way. 
To repeat a question already asked, where are you.  If you really can't 
get over this then someone nearby can hopefully cut you a tape.

Cheers

Robin
>
>_______________________________________________
>PUPS mailing list
>PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
>http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

-- 
Robin Birch



From iking at killthewabbit.org  Sat Feb  8 03:23:21 2003
From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King)
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 09:23:21 -0800
Subject: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <000401c2cecd$9d4186d0$7f0010ac@pepelepew>

Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever.  :-)  I built and ran
maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots).  So I'm remaking
the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions).

I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on this
same subject - doh!

Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the
caveats we've learned?  -- Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
To: "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM
Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD


> Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
> this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
> standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
>
> Cheers
>
> Robin
>
>
> In message <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac at dawabbit>, Ian King
> <iking at killthewabbit.org> writes
> >I think I've done enough homework and legwork to feel like I can ask the
> >list a question now.  :-)  I've acquired an 11/73 and want to install
> >2.11BSD on it; it includes a TK50 and RX33.  I also have a DECstation
> >5000/200 with a TK50, so my first efforts were to dd the files onto a
tape.
> >Depending on how I hacked around, I either got a "non-bootable media"
error
> >or "Error 21 - drive error".  The two ways I tried to put the boot files
on
> >were per the instructions (cat mtboot mtboot boot | dd), and not per the
> >instructions (dd mtboot, dd mtboot, dd boot).  Depending on how I hacked
> >around, I either got a "non-bootable media" error or "Error 21 - drive
> >error" from the boot ROM monitor.
> >
> >With no way to troubleshoot the TK50 drive, I then tried to put at least
a
> >boot sector on a 1.2MB floppy, using rawrite on a PC; I copied mtboot +
> >mtboot + boot to an intermediate file, then used rawrite to put that on
the
> >floppy.  I got the same "Error 21".
> >
> >The machine also has a working RD54 containing Micro/RSX and some
> >proprietary software for managing a parking lot.  :-)  I can boot to an
RSX
> >prompt (although I can't log in, having none of the passwords), so most
of
> >the machine appears to be working.
> >
> >While there's a stubborn side that wants to figure out how to build
bootable
> >media :-) I'd also be happy at this point to get a copy of a bootable
TK50;
> >I have blank tapes....  Either way, I hope someone can point me in the
right
> >direction.  Thanks in advance -- Ian
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >PUPS mailing list
> >PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> >http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> --
> Robin Birch
>



From iking at killthewabbit.org  Sun Feb  9 04:48:36 2003
From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 10:48:36 -0800
Subject: Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD)
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk> <000401c2cecd$9d4186d0$7f0010ac@pepelepew>
Message-ID: <000401c2cfa2$b05e3210$450010ac@dawabbit>

It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your
help, folks.  I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the
disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src.
(The docs mention that TK50s are slower than snot - believe it!)  The system
has two RD54s <woohoo!>, but I'm following the 'default' installation for
now until I have everything running and have successfully rebuilt the
kernel; then I'll probably move /usr and /tmp over to the second RD.  I also
need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an
11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point.

For the record, I live in Seattle, and I can now produce bootable TK50s with
2.11BSD.  :-)

-- Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>
To: "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD


> Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever.  :-)  I built and ran
> maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots).  So I'm remaking
> the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions).
>
> I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on
this
> same subject - doh!
>
> Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the
> caveats we've learned?  -- Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
> To: "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>
> Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
>
>
> > Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
> > this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
> > standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Robin
> >
> >
[snip]
> >
> > --
> > Robin Birch
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Sun Feb  9 07:47:57 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 16:47:57 -0500
Subject: Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD)
In-Reply-To: <000401c2cfa2$b05e3210$450010ac@dawabbit>; from iking@killthewabbit.org on Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:48:36AM -0800
References: <000501c2ce81$84244df0$450010ac@dawabbit> <kc1iFSADa5Q+EwUh@falstaf.demon.co.uk> <000401c2cecd$9d4186d0$7f0010ac@pepelepew> <000401c2cfa2$b05e3210$450010ac@dawabbit>
Message-ID: <20030208164757.C18303@bcr4.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 10:48:36AM -0800, Ian King wrote:
> It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your
> help, folks.  I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the
> disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src.

  Good job!

> I also
> need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an
> 11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point.
> 

  A KDJ-11B CPU board (quad height) with Qbus memory is an 11/73, while a
KDJ-11B CPU with PMI memory is an 11/83.  The boot loaded likely just
identifies the CPU board type and assumes a /83.  It would only claim a
/73 if it were running on a KDB-11 (dual height) card.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From robin.birch at royalmail.com  Mon Feb 10 20:06:06 2003
From: robin.birch at royalmail.com (robin.birch at royalmail.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 10:06:06 +0000
Subject: Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2
	.11BSD)
Message-ID: <00256CC9.00379378.00@postoffice.co.uk>


Well done,
My 83 has 2 RD54s it is a nice configuration.

As to your other query about the boot loader saying that it is an 83 as opposed to
a 73.  The response that you have had is correct AFAIK. My 83 was a 73 before I
changed the processor and I had a similar conversation with Steve Schultz.  If it
is a quad board then the boot loader is doing as well as it can :-)

Have fun

Robin





To:         "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
cc:         <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Hard Copy To:
Hard Copy cc:

Date:       08/02/2003 18:48
                                                                             
 From:         "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>@minnie.tuhs.org          
                                                                             
 Sent by:      pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org                                    
                                                                             
                                                                             
 Subject:      Another happy customer (was Re: [pups] Bootable media for     
               2.11BSD)                                                      
                                                                             



It's amazing what happens when you follow the directions - thanks for your
help, folks.  I have 2.11BSD up and running on my 11/73 (booted off the
disk, even), and it's currently untarring the last big chunk of /usr/src.
(The docs mention that TK50s are slower than snot - believe it!)  The system
has two RD54s <woohoo!>, but I'm following the 'default' installation for
now until I have everything running and have successfully rebuilt the
kernel; then I'll probably move /usr and /tmp over to the second RD.  I also
need to dig into the machine a bit more - the bootloader tells me I have an
11/83, so I'm suspecting the CPU was changed at some point.

For the record, I live in Seattle, and I can now produce bootable TK50s with
2.11BSD.  :-)

-- Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>
To: "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD


> Yup, that's what I get for trying to be clever.  :-)  I built and ran
> maketape, and the 11/73 likes the resulting tape (boots).  So I'm remaking
> the tape with the tar's on it (per the instructions).
>
> I also happened to look at my work email, and saw the recent thread on
this
> same subject - doh!
>
> Maybe we should add something to the /2.11BSD distribution README with the
> caveats we've learned?  -- Ian
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Birch" <robinb at ruffnready.co.uk>
> To: "Ian King" <iking at killthewabbit.org>
> Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Bootable media for 2.11BSD
>
>
> > Use the maketape program in the sys/pdpstand directory.  You can build
> > this on most things and use it to create a bootable tape with the
> > standalone system which contains all of the tools to set the system up.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Robin
> >
> >
[snip]
> >
> > --
> > Robin Birch
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups







From iking at killthewabbit.org  Wed Feb 12 05:56:05 2003
From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King)
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:56:05 -0800
Subject: [pups] Anyone got a bulkhead connector?
Message-ID: <000501c2d207$9ca46a20$450010ac@dawabbit>

I've checked commercial vendors and eBay to no avail, so now I'll appeal to
the community: I would really like to find a bulkhead connector for a DEQNA
card (the part number is CK-DEQNA-KB).  If anyone has one they're willing to
part with, please send me email with your terms.

Otherwise, I'll just have to kludge something - but I'd sure like to do it
right, as my 11/73 is in pretty nice shape.  :-)

TIA -- Ian



From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Tue Feb 18 06:35:07 2003
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:35:07 -0500
Subject: [pups] Test
Message-ID: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net>

Test!
Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that
the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"This signature wants to be playing in the snow!"


From greg at censoft.com  Tue Feb 18 06:58:57 2003
From: greg at censoft.com (Greg Haerr)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:58:57 -0800
Subject: [pups] Test
References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport>

> Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that
> the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past.

Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here!

Regards,

Greg


From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Tue Feb 18 07:26:03 2003
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:26:03 -0500
Subject: [pups] Test
References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport>
Message-ID: <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Oh I know everyone is awake. Except those of us who sleep for work <G> I
just haven't heard a squawk from the list since sometime last year. To
quote a phrase, "Watch this space!". I'll be posting some questions,
RSN.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net 
"This signature voted for the party from Naboo!"
Greg Haerr wrote:
> 
> > Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that
> > the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past.
> 
> Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Greg


From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Tue Feb 18 09:36:28 2003
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:36:28 -0500
Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <001501c2d6dd$6587a4a0$09b9580c@who5>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Here are those questions:
1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot images?
2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained within the
Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk?
3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source code?
Either native, and on a Simh setup will do.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8 at worldnet.att.net>
To: "Greg Haerr" <greg at wasatchmarine.com>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Test


> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> Oh I know everyone is awake. Except those of us who sleep for work <G> I
> just haven't heard a squawk from the list since sometime last year. To
> quote a phrase, "Watch this space!". I'll be posting some questions,
> RSN.
> Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
> "This signature voted for the party from Naboo!"
> Greg Haerr wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that
> > > the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the
past.
> >
> > Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Greg
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>



From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb 18 09:53:09 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:53:09 -0500
Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
In-Reply-To: <001501c2d6dd$6587a4a0$09b9580c@who5>; from drwho8@worldnet.att.net on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:36:28PM -0500
References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net> <001501c2d6dd$6587a4a0$09b9580c@who5>
Message-ID: <20030217185309.A28868@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:36:28PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> 1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot images?

  The distribution doesn't include any networking IIRC.

> 2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained within the
> Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk?

  Yep--that's how I got my system bootstrapped.  dd'd the image to a SCSI disk
and stuck it in my /73.

> 3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source code?

  "That" being the stuff in the standard distribution?  Yes.

> "Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase.

  What, with "oh dear" and "oh, Jamie!" competing for the status of favourite?

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Tue Feb 18 10:41:12 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:41:12 -0500
Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
In-Reply-To: <20030217185309.A28868@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <000001c2d6e6$70a3cb80$21b4580c@who5>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Okay, that covers my questions for your department. Thank you, David.
 No networking? Why not? Can that be added? And how did you add the
source code disks?

And as for the comment, David, I just remember them, and write them
down. He did say those, and probably has them filed the way I
suggested. Mine second, your selection first, and third.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of David Evans
> Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 6:53 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine
> Cc: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
> 
> On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:36:28PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > 1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot
images?
> 
>   The distribution doesn't include any networking IIRC.
> 
> > 2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained
within the
> > Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk?
> 
>   Yep--that's how I got my system bootstrapped.  dd'd the image to a
SCSI disk
> and stuck it in my /73.
> 
> > 3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source
code?
> 
>   "That" being the stuff in the standard distribution?  Yes.
> 
> > "Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase.
> 
>   What, with "oh dear" and "oh, Jamie!" competing for the status of
favourite?
> 
> --
> David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)
dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
> Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie
http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
> University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the
composer
> Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland
TR-707 Manual
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Tue Feb 18 10:48:17 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:48:17 -0500
Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
In-Reply-To: <000001c2d6e6$70a3cb80$21b4580c@who5>; from hansolofalcon@worldnet.att.net on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 07:41:12PM -0500
References: <20030217185309.A28868@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca> <000001c2d6e6$70a3cb80$21b4580c@who5>
Message-ID: <20030217194817.B29064@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 07:41:12PM -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
>  No networking? Why not?

  Don't know.  To save on space in the GENERIC kernel, likely.

> Can that be added?

  Yes.

> And how did you add the
> source code disks?
> 

  Hmmm...I'm trying to remember.  I *think* that there was actually networking
in the SIMH archive, while there is not in the generic install archive.

> And as for the comment, David, I just remember them, and write them
> down. He did say those, and probably has them filed the way I
> suggested. Mine second, your selection first, and third.

  Heh.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From iking at killthewabbit.org  Tue Feb 18 16:00:03 2003
From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:00:03 -0800
Subject: [pups] Test
References: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net> <035101c2d6c7$644562a0$220110ac@WasatchNewport> <3E51536B.F7904A71@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <001901c2d712$fa849010$450010ac@dawabbit>

Well, I recently posted an inquiry that was answered by complete silence.
:-)  (Not complete, actually - someone where I work showed up at my office
to discuss it!)  No worries, I found a DEQNA cable on eBay; of course, I had
to buy the DEQNA, too, but it never hurts to have spares.  That should be
here by the time I return from my next business trip (I leave tomorrow), and
I can begin the process of building a network-enabled 2.11BSD kernel for my
11/73.

I'm enjoying this: "my PDP-11 - oh, I mean the 11/73, not the 11/34"....  I
rearranged stuff and things so I have a VT-52 sitting on top of the 11/73's
cabinet, and the ADM-3a on the desk, connected to the 11/34.  I'm really
having second thoughts about the DECscope, though - clunky old piece of
s***, truth be told.  Maybe some artifacts of techology are better off
forgotten!

I'm also revisiting some old threads in which I'd participated, about Unix
v6 on the 11/34 - I'm having problems getting cc to work again, with the
error "can't find c0.lib".  Last time, someone suggested it was a memory
problem, and indeed the XXDP diagnostic found a memory defect.  This time,
XXDP doesn't show a memory problem.  I rebuilt my system disk from the
'sacred copy', but I'm seeing the same problem.  My next step is to boot
single-user and try it - but that's after I get back from The Road, too.

OK, did I contribute my quota of noise?  Cheers -- Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8 at worldnet.att.net>
To: "Greg Haerr" <greg at wasatchmarine.com>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Test


> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> Oh I know everyone is awake. Except those of us who sleep for work <G> I
> just haven't heard a squawk from the list since sometime last year. To
> quote a phrase, "Watch this space!". I'll be posting some questions,
> RSN.
> Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
> "This signature voted for the party from Naboo!"
> Greg Haerr wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that
> > > the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the
past.
> >
> > Are you trying to wake us all up? - yes, I'm here!
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Greg
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From Bill.Mayhew at oracle.com  Wed Feb 19 01:35:48 2003
From: Bill.Mayhew at oracle.com (Bill Mayhew)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:35:48 -0500
Subject: [pups] Test
In-Reply-To: <3E51477B.901B2336@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <001101c2d763$69678000$62dd018a@APRSTBMAYHEW>

Oh, good... the silence is not my imagination!

        -Bill (resisting the temptation to send a simulated auto-reply ;-) )
__________________________________________
Bill Mayhew
The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily
represent those of Oracle Corporation.


-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]On
Behalf Of Gregg C Levine
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:35 PM
To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: [pups] Test


Test!
Sorry for the disturbance. Just a routine test message to confirm that
the list is awake. I haven't gotten anything since sometime in the past.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"This signature wants to be playing in the snow!"



From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Wed Feb 19 02:50:41 2003
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:50:41 -0500
Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0302180805360.843-100000@gladen>
Message-ID: <000801c2d76d$e1513d40$eeae580c@who5>

Hello fron Gregg C Levine
Um no. I was thinking of V7, of the original UNIX. As it happens, I am still
not comfortable with the earlier versions of BSD. So, I am interested in
getting V7, or V6 to work via a networked environment. And yes, I have seen
your file, and the read me for it.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"Oh my!" The Second Doctor's nearly favorite phrase.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andru Luvisi" <luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu>
To: "Gregg C Levine" <drwho8 at worldnet.att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test


> On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> > Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> > Here are those questions:
> > 1) What is the status of networking, with regards to the boot images?
> > 2) Has anyone actually managed to dump the image that's contained within
the
> > Soupnik collected UNIX versions to an actual disk?
> > 3) Has anyone actually managed to build a kernel from that source code?
> > Either native, and on a Simh setup will do.
>
> If you are asking about 2.11BSD, I have managed to build a kernel with
> networking support which works on simh.  It is at:
> http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Boot_Images/2.11_on_Simh/
>
> It's probably not suitable for a real PDP since it only supports RA/MSCP
> and ram disks, and TS tape drives.
>
> Andru
> --
> Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst
>
>
> Quote Of The Moment:
>   I'm not normal.  I know it.  I don't care!
>        - Ace Of Base
>



From luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu  Wed Feb 19 03:57:36 2003
From: luvisi at andru.sonoma.edu (Andru Luvisi)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:57:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
In-Reply-To: <000801c2d76d$e1513d40$eeae580c@who5>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0302180956450.843-100000@gladen>

On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello fron Gregg C Levine
> Um no. I was thinking of V7, of the original UNIX. As it happens, I am still
> not comfortable with the earlier versions of BSD. So, I am interested in
> getting V7, or V6 to work via a networked environment. And yes, I have seen
> your file, and the read me for it.

I recall V7 had UUCP and that some non-tcp/ip networking implementations
existed for it, but I have never heard of a tcp/ip stack for V7.  Does
such a thing exist?

Andru
-- 
Andru Luvisi, Programmer/Analyst

Quote Of The Moment:
  Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
  mediocre minds.
                  -- Albert Einstein
  
  They laughed at Einstein.  They laughed at the Wright Brothers.
  But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
                  -- Carl Sagan



From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Wed Feb 19 03:59:14 2003
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:59:14 +0100
Subject: Some questions, was Re: [pups] Test
Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAA2@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>

> I recall V7 had UUCP and that some non-tcp/ip networking 
> implementations existed for it,
Yes, various serial-networking based ones (early DECnet, X.25
and PacketNet stuff) and perhaps the multiplexer device stuff.

> but I have never heard of a tcp/ip stack for V7.  Does
> such a thing exist?
Nope, didnt fit in the address space.  As far as I know, the
earliest TCP/IP UNIX for PDP-11 was 2.10/2.11bsd.

--f


From chpap at ics.forth.gr  Wed Feb 19 22:18:44 2003
From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:18:44 +0200
Subject: [pups] (no subject)
Message-ID: <00e001c2d811$0c4ad670$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>

I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1 (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version of zrqb or something similar?
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From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net  Sun Feb 23 10:59:54 2003
From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:59:54 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>
Message-ID: <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura>

I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header
on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I
think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.

There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve
my method, let me know.

http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP


"Teach a man to fish..."

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?


> I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a RQDX1
> controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing
> BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of
> zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded
> directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version
> of zrqb or something similar?



From cmcnabb at vt.edu  Sun Feb 23 13:04:45 2003
From: cmcnabb at vt.edu (Christopher McNabb)
Date: 22 Feb 2003 22:04:45 -0500
Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05
Message-ID: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>

I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller.  The TS11 driver for
211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly.  I can
forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any
attempt to read or write data results in a hard error:
----
# ansitape -t 
ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310<MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310<MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=10310<RLL,MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
unknown record mode (n) - file 7 skipped
t - 7:  0 lines (0 chars) in 0 tape blocks
----
This continues ad-nauseum until Ctrl-C is pressed.
So, it looks like the TS11 driver is "almost, but not quite" good
enough.  Before I start attempting to re-invent the wheel, has anyone
had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD?

-- 
Christopher L McNabb              Tel:   540 231 7554
Operating Systems Analyst         Email: cmcnabb at vt.edu
Virginia Tech                     ICBM:  37.205622N 80.414595W
GMRS: WPSR255                     ARS:   N2UX  Grid Sq: EM97SD


From shoppa at trailing-edge.com  Sun Feb 23 13:42:53 2003
From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 22:42:53 -0500
Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05
In-Reply-To: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>
References: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>
Message-ID: <3E58433D.nail38311SDVN@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>

>has anyone had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD?

The TSV05 is a TS11-emulating interface, like the TU80 and Emulex
TC03 and Emulex TC13 (in TS11 mode) and the Dilog DQ132 etc.
While I've used 2.11BSD with TU80's and TC03's and TC13's and DQ132's
and they all worked, I've never actually used a real TSV05 under
2.11BSD.

I'd be inclined to say you've got a hardware problem before
blaming the 2.11BSD driver.  Can you test your TSV05&TS05 with a
different OS?  (RT-11, RSX, VMS?)

Tim.



From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Sun Feb 23 16:22:44 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:22:44 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
In-Reply-To: <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura>
Message-ID: <000001c2db03$fb0b45c0$b5c3580c@who5>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create
that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio,
is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the
one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available
at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message.
That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate.
It hasn't returned. 

However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site
here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
> on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has
been a
> long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program
that I
> think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> 
> There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
> my method, let me know.
> 
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> 
> 
> "Teach a man to fish..."
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> 
> 
> > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
RQDX1
> > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
installing
> > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
version of
> > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
downloaded
> > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a
version
> > of zrqb or something similar?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Sun Feb 23 20:13:46 2003
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:13:46 +0000
Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05
In-Reply-To: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>
References: <1045969485.30181.9.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>
Message-ID: <H8FqNaAa7JW+EwDE@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Er yes, it's one of the most reliable tape drivers and controller mixes 
that the OS supports.  I occasionally have had problems when the drive 
itself has had a nervous breakdown but apart from that it is very good.

Robin

In message <1045969485.30181.9.camel at www.4mcnabb.net>, Christopher 
McNabb <cmcnabb at vt.edu> writes
>I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller.  The TS11 driver for
>211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly.  I can
>forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any
>attempt to read or write data results in a hard error:
>----
># ansitape -t
>ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310<MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
>xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
>ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310<MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
>xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
>ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=10310<RLL,MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
>xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
>unknown record mode (n) - file 7 skipped
>t - 7:  0 lines (0 chars) in 0 tape blocks
>----
>This continues ad-nauseum until Ctrl-C is pressed.
>So, it looks like the TS11 driver is "almost, but not quite" good
>enough.  Before I start attempting to re-invent the wheel, has anyone
>had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD?
>

-- 
Robin Birch



From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 24 03:15:34 2003
From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:15:34 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
References: <000001c2db03$fb0b45c0$b5c3580c@who5>
Message-ID: <000001c2db74$36932f20$8a00a8c0@arctura>

I fixed the link.

E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run it on a
machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP now, and
E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to see if
there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create
> that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
> However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio,
> is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the
> one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available
> at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message.
> That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate.
> It hasn't returned.
>
> However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site
> here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> XXDP
> >
> > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
> header
> > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has
> been a
> > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program
> that I
> > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
> improve
> > my method, let me know.
> >
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> >
> > "Teach a man to fish..."
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Engdahl
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> >
> > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> >
> >
> > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> RQDX1
> > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> installing
> > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> version of
> > > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> downloaded
> > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a
> version
> > > of zrqb or something similar?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Mon Feb 24 06:31:25 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:31:25 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
In-Reply-To: <000001c2db74$36932f20$8a00a8c0@arctura>
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJX/cR7931hGLXAABAjrE9eKAAAAQAAAAxgGbU0JH1xGLYgABAjrE9QEAAAAA@worldnet.att.net>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Regarding Dbit, and E-11. The site is back. But you're right. I don't
think there's a fix. If there is one, he'll probably deny it.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> I fixed the link.
> 
> E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run
it on a
> machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP
now, and
> E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to
see if
> there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>;
<pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
> Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> > Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to
create
> > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
> > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at
Ibiblio,
> > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But
the
> > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are
available
> > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error
message.
> > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is
unfortunate.
> > It hasn't returned.
> >
> > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the
site
> > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've
proven.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> > XXDP
> > >
> > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put a
> > header
> > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has
> > been a
> > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program
> > that I
> > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> > improve
> > > my method, let me know.
> > >
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > >
> > > "Teach a man to fish..."
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Engdahl
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> > >
> > > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> > >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> > > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> > RQDX1
> > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> > installing
> > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> > version of
> > > > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> > downloaded
> > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 ,
i.e. a
> > version
> > > > of zrqb or something similar?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PUPS mailing list
> > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Mon Feb 24 06:31:25 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:31:25 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
In-Reply-To: <000001c2db74$36932f20$8a00a8c0@arctura>
Message-ID: <000201c2db7a$8bfcf8a0$58a7580c@who5>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I can't understand it. When I posted the original reply, that site
regarding XXDP wasn't up. Now it is. I think this is all because the
Winter of 2003, is causing chaos to over work itself. And Jonathan, I
know we'll figure something out. This business is fun, so I'm looking
at it, as a hobby if nothing else.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> I fixed the link.
> 
> E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run
it on a
> machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP
now, and
> E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to
see if
> there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>;
<pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
> Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> > Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to
create
> > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
> > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at
Ibiblio,
> > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But
the
> > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are
available
> > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error
message.
> > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is
unfortunate.
> > It hasn't returned.
> >
> > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the
site
> > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've
proven.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> > XXDP
> > >
> > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put a
> > header
> > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has
> > been a
> > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program
> > that I
> > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> > improve
> > > my method, let me know.
> > >
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > >
> > > "Teach a man to fish..."
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Engdahl
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> > >
> > > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> > >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> > > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> > RQDX1
> > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> > installing
> > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> > version of
> > > > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> > downloaded
> > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 ,
i.e. a
> > version
> > > > of zrqb or something similar?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PUPS mailing list
> > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From michael_davidson at pacbell.net  Mon Feb 24 07:40:40 2003
From: michael_davidson at pacbell.net (Michael Davidson)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:40:40 -0800
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura>
Message-ID: <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net>

Jonathan Engdahl wrote:

>I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header
>on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
>long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I
>think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
>
>There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve
>my method, let me know.
>
>http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
>
There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.

While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)

This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
you to the restart address.

In your example you have:

000020/ 000167
000022/ 145702

If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
(of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
2 words of the restart code).

If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
it isn't) you would want either:

000137
145702

or:

000167
145676







From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Mon Feb 24 08:26:58 2003
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:26:58 +0100
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DAF5@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>

Erzatz-11 V3.1 runs fine on Win2K and XP, please get that from
the site.  If you cant reach it, contact me offlist and I will
send it to you.

--f

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Engdahl [mailto:j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net]
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 6:16 PM
> To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> XXDP
> 
> 
> I fixed the link.
> 
> E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have 
> to run it on a
> machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run 
> XP now, and
> E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to 
> www.dbit.com to see if
> there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>; 
> <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
> Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format 
> utility? --> XXDP
> 
> 
> > Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> > I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create
> > that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
> > However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> > find it. Currently the link which points to the repository 
> at Ibiblio,
> > is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the
> > one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available
> > at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found 
> error message.
> > That guy has always had problems with his site, which is 
> unfortunate.
> > It hasn't returned.
> >
> > However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> > current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> > environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site
> > here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as 
> I've proven.
> > -------------------
> > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> > (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org 
> [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> > XXDP
> > >
> > > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP 
> and put a
> > header
> > > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has
> > been a
> > > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on 
> the program
> > that I
> > > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if 
> someone can
> > improve
> > > my method, let me know.
> > >
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > >
> > > "Teach a man to fish..."
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jonathan Engdahl
> > > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> > >
> > > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> > >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> > > To: <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> > RQDX1
> > > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> > installing
> > > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> > version of
> > > > zrqc from the  xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> > downloaded
> > > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the 
> RQDX1 , i.e. a
> > version
> > > > of zrqb or something similar?
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PUPS mailing list
> > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 


From cmcnabb at vt.edu  Mon Feb 24 10:41:26 2003
From: cmcnabb at vt.edu (Christopher McNabb)
Date: 23 Feb 2003 19:41:26 -0500
Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 - Boy, Do I feel stupid
Message-ID: <1046047286.30181.43.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>

On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 22:04, Christopher McNabb wrote:
> I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller.  The TS11 driver for
> 211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly.  I can
> forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any
> attempt to read or write data results in a hard error:
> ----


Well, this problem was fixed by cleaning the heads.  In the words of the
immortal Homer Simpson, "Doh!"
 
-- 
Christopher L McNabb              Tel:   540 231 7554
Operating Systems Analyst         Email: cmcnabb at vt.edu
Virginia Tech                     ICBM:  37.205622N 80.414595W
GMRS: WPSR255                     ARS:   N2UX  Grid Sq: EM97SD


From robinb at ruffnready.co.uk  Mon Feb 24 11:11:41 2003
From: robinb at ruffnready.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:11:41 +0000
Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05 - Boy, Do I feel stupid
In-Reply-To: <1046047286.30181.43.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>
References: <1046047286.30181.43.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>
Message-ID: <8SwEWPANFXW+EwnH@falstaf.demon.co.uk>

Oh well, glad it now works.  It's always the simple ones that bite :-)

Robin
In message <1046047286.30181.43.camel at www.4mcnabb.net>, Christopher 
McNabb <cmcnabb at vt.edu> writes
>On Sat, 2003-02-22 at 22:04, Christopher McNabb wrote:
>> I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller.  The TS11 driver for
>> 211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly.  I can
>> forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any
>> attempt to read or write data results in a hard error:
>> ----
>
>
>Well, this problem was fixed by cleaning the heads.  In the words of the
>immortal Homer Simpson, "Doh!"
>

-- 
Robin Birch



From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 24 12:41:39 2003
From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:41:39 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <008501c2dbae$42286050$8a00a8c0@arctura>

You are right: 000137. The funny thing is, I had it right the first time.
I'll go update the web page.

On the other header fields, I agree with your idea, but for some reason, I
have this vague recollection that there was a reason for what I did with
them. It's always a bad idea to second guess something you did a year ago
and "fix" it (see the 000137 thing). It's working, so I'd best leave it
alone until it's proven to be broken. I think I remember setting it up that
way after reading through the source for some boot loader.

Hmm, yes, it was the "boot" program. VTserver squirts down a small loader
via ODT, which then loads boot.dd. Same as the boot program that the 512
byte rauboot program loads. This one:

73Boot from ra(0,0,0) at 0172150
: ra(0,0,0)unix

 Boot.dd knows enough to chat with the console so you can tell it what file
you want off the virtual tape or hard drive, and it does some decoding of
the header, but it's limited. Maybe I should go read that code again.

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


> Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>
> >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
> >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
> >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that
I
> >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
> >my method, let me know.
> >
> >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
>
> While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
>
> This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> you to the restart address.
>
> In your example you have:
>
> 000020/ 000167
> 000022/ 145702
>
> If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> 2 words of the restart code).
>
> If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> it isn't) you would want either:
>
> 000137
> 145702
>
> or:
>
> 000167
> 145676
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 24 14:32:57 2003
From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl)
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:32:57 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
References: <001201c2d98f$b4ff34d0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> <020901c2dad6$e0afcf70$8a00a8c0@arctura> <3E593FD8.2090207@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura>

Now that I think of it,

> 000137
> 145702

is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in this case
it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into memory, it
would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to 145722.

I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.

Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an
RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


> Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>
> >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
> >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
> >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that
I
> >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
> >my method, let me know.
> >
> >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
>
> While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
>
> This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> you to the restart address.
>
> In your example you have:
>
> 000020/ 000167
> 000022/ 145702
>
> If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> 2 words of the restart code).
>
> If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> it isn't) you would want either:
>
> 000137
> 145702
>
> or:
>
> 000167
> 145676
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Mon Feb 24 15:10:25 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:10:25 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura> from Jonathan Engdahl at
 "Feb 23, 2003 11:32:57 pm"
Message-ID: <200302240510.h1O5AQP56370@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Jonathan Engdahl:
> Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
> twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an
> RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.

I'm glad I wrote VTserver, it seems it has more uses than I thought of.
I'm out of the development loop for the new VTserver, but hopefully
it's progressing along.

	Warren


From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Mon Feb 24 15:40:18 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:40:18 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
In-Reply-To: <00cb01c2dbbd$ce8d64f0$8a00a8c0@arctura>
Message-ID: <000001c2dbc7$389a3400$0ec6580c@who5>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite
remember hearing about.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> Now that I think of it,
> 
> > 000137
> > 145702
> 
> is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in
this case
> it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into
memory, it
> would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to
145722.
> 
> I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
> 
> Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
> twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
for an
> RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
> To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
> Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> > Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
> >
> > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put
a
> header
> > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has been a
> > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program that
> I
> > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> improve
> > >my method, let me know.
> > >
> > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
> >
> > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
> >
> > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> > you to the restart address.
> >
> > In your example you have:
> >
> > 000020/ 000167
> > 000022/ 145702
> >
> > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> > 2 words of the restart code).
> >
> > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> > it isn't) you would want either:
> >
> > 000137
> > 145702
> >
> > or:
> >
> > 000167
> > 145676
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net  Mon Feb 24 16:34:20 2003
From: j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net (Jonathan Engdahl)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 01:34:20 -0500
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
References: <000001c2dbc7$389a3400$0ec6580c@who5>
Message-ID: <00e501c2dbce$c3f20800$8a00a8c0@arctura>

The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy controller.
I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find them on the web here and
there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg files. I had one that
was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it. I found a bad bus
buffer and fixed it.

I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53. Wait,
though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for it. It puts the DMA
buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the final destination is
higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this issue. I've never had to
worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140 also.

DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on it.

Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is
804140-1.

Second picture down on this page:
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm

Here's how it boots:
http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html

--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl

"The things which are seen are temporary,
 but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP


Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite
remember hearing about.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
> To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
>
> Now that I think of it,
>
> > 000137
> > 145702
>
> is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in
this case
> it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into
memory, it
> would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to
145722.
>
> I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
>
> Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
> twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
for an
> RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
>
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
>
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
> To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
> Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
>
>
> > Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
> >
> > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put
a
> header
> > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has been a
> > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program that
> I
> > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> improve
> > >my method, let me know.
> > >
> > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > >
> > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
> >
> > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
> >
> > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> > you to the restart address.
> >
> > In your example you have:
> >
> > 000020/ 000167
> > 000022/ 145702
> >
> > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> > 2 words of the restart code).
> >
> > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> > it isn't) you would want either:
> >
> > 000137
> > 145702
> >
> > or:
> >
> > 000167
> > 145676
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Mon Feb 24 17:24:45 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:24:45 -0500
Subject: DEC Compatible boards was RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
In-Reply-To: <00e501c2dbce$c3f20800$8a00a8c0@arctura>
Message-ID: <000101c2dbd5$cf5eaac0$e6c2580c@who5>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Going to the website you suggested www.arcind.net brought up an
interesting collection of boards, the ones made by Data Translation:

Data Translation:
1 - DT2762-DI
1 - DT2762-SE
1 - DT2762-SE-PG

At first glance I believe them to be the usual items that DT was
making for DEC systems until whenever they decided to EOL the whole
product line. DT, not DEC. Can any of you, ID them? Oh, and Jonathan,
I've sent an e-mail off to the company requesting a quote.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:34 AM
> To: Gregg C Levine; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy
controller.
> I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find them on the web here
and
> there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg files. I had
one that
> was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it. I found a bad
bus
> buffer and fixed it.
> 
> I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53.
Wait,
> though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for it. It puts
the DMA
> buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the final
destination is
> higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this issue. I've never had
to
> worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140 also.
> 
> DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on
it.
> 
> Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is
> 804140-1.
> 
> Second picture down on this page:
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm
> 
> Here's how it boots:
> http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html
> 
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> 
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
>  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>;
<pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM
> Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> 
> 
> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
> And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
> what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't
quite
> remember hearing about.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
> > To: cctech at classiccmp.org; pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
-->
> XXDP
> >
> > Now that I think of it,
> >
> > > 000137
> > > 145702
> >
> > is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in
> this case
> > it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into
> memory, it
> > would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump
to
> 145722.
> >
> > I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
> >
> > Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a
barely
> > twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
> for an
> > RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Engdahl
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> >
> > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> >  but the things which are not seen are eternal."  II Cor. 4:18
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson at pacbell.net>
> > To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl at adelphia.net>
> > Cc: <cctech at classiccmp.org>; <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
-->
> XXDP
> >
> >
> > > Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
> > >
> > > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put
> a
> > header
> > > >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
> has been a
> > > >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
> program that
> > I
> > > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > > >
> > > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if
someone
> can
> > improve
> > > >my method, let me know.
> > > >
> > > >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> > > >
> > > There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> > > and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> > > have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
> > >
> > > While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> > > vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> > > it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> > > not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> > > loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> > > only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
> > >
> > > This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> > > into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> > > you to the restart address.
> > >
> > > In your example you have:
> > >
> > > 000020/ 000167
> > > 000022/ 145702
> > >
> > > If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> > > jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> > > (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> > > an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> > > 2 words of the restart code).
> > >
> > > If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> > > it isn't) you would want either:
> > >
> > > 000137
> > > 145702
> > >
> > > or:
> > >
> > > 000167
> > > 145676
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > PUPS mailing list
> > > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net  Sun Feb 23 12:58:57 2003
From: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net (Christopher McNabb)
Date: 22 Feb 2003 21:58:57 -0500
Subject: [pups] 211BSD and TSV05
Message-ID: <1045969136.30181.7.camel@www.4mcnabb.net>

I have a TS05 tape drive and TSV05 controller.  The TS11 driver for
211BSD seems to be close to what I need, but not exactly.  I can
forward, reverse, offline, and run status commands using 'mt', but any
attempt to read or write data results in a hard error:
----
# ansitape -t 
ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310<MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=310<MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
ts0: hard error bn0 xs0=10310<RLL,MOT,ONL,PED> xs1=20402<COR,-,UNC>
xs2=100000<OPM> xs3=40<REV>
unknown record mode (n) - file 7 skipped
t - 7:  0 lines (0 chars) in 0 tape blocks
----
This continues ad-nauseum until Ctrl-C is pressed.
So, it looks like the TS11 driver is "almost, but not quite" good
enough.  Before I start attempting to re-invent the wheel, has anyone
had success getting a TSV05/TS05 working under 2.11BSD?


-- 
Christopher L McNabb
Operating Systems Analyst         Email: cmcnabb at 4mcnabb.net
Virginia Tech                     ICBM:  37.1356N 80.4272N
GMRS: WPSR255                     ARS:   N2UX  Grid Sq: EM97SD


From cmcnabb at vt.edu  Wed Feb 26 03:05:14 2003
From: cmcnabb at vt.edu (Christopher McNabb)
Date: 25 Feb 2003 12:05:14 -0500
Subject: [pups] Success!
Message-ID: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Well, here are the results of my weekends "hacking":
---------------------------
$ uname -a
2.11BSD pdp11.4mcnabb.net 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #3: Fri Feb 21 21:00:58
PST 2003     root@:/usr/src/sys/PDP1183  pdp11

$ df
Filesystem  1K-blocks     Used    Avail Capacity  Mounted on
/dev/ra0a       10078     3009     7069    30%    /
/dev/ra0c       10078        2    10076     0%    /tmp
/dev/ra0d       90718    40963    49755    45%    /usr
/dev/ra0e       38206    29414     8792    77%    /users

$ sysctl hw
hw.machine = pdp11
hw.model = 83
hw.ncpu = 1
hw.byteorder = 3412
hw.physmem = 2097152
hw.usermem = 0
hw.pagesize = 1024

$ dmesg

Feb 25 12:02
...
<5>ra0: Ver 2 mod 3
ra0: RD54  size=311200
attaching qe0 csr 174440
qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:b7:53
attaching lo0

phys mem  = 2097152
avail mem = 1727488
user mem  = 307200
-----------------------------------------------
The machine is an 11/83 with 2 megs of ram, DEQNA, single RD54, TSV05,
TK50, and 3 DHV11s.

Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches.

-- 
Christopher L McNabb              Tel:   540 231 7554
Operating Systems Analyst         Email: cmcnabb at vt.edu
Virginia Tech                     ICBM:  37.205622N 80.414595W
GMRS: WPSR255                     ARS:   N2UX  Grid Sq: EM97SD


From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Wed Feb 26 03:35:15 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:35:15 -0500
Subject: [pups] Success!
In-Reply-To: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>; from cmcnabb@vt.edu on Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 12:05:14PM -0500
References: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20030225123515.A15813@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Feb 25, 2003 at 12:05:14PM -0500, Christopher McNabb wrote:
> Well, here are the results of my weekends "hacking":

  Looks nice!

> /dev/ra0d       90718    40963    49755    45%    /usr
> /dev/ra0e       38206    29414     8792    77%    /users
> 

  I kind of wish I had done something like this; instead I ended up taking
the SGI route of /usr/people.  Oh well.

> Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches.
> 

  If somebody goes through this pain, any chance of making a new source kit?
Though I guess some of the patches are not necessarily desirable in all
circumstances...

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Wed Feb 26 06:01:02 2003
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:01:02 +0100
Subject: [pups] Success!
Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DB22@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>

Chris writes:

> Well, here are the results of my weekends "hacking":
Yay!  It lives! Good work, dude!

--fred


From chpap at ics.forth.gr  Wed Feb 26 06:09:48 2003
From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:09:48 +0200
Subject: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9
References: <1046192714.2921.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20030225123515.A15813@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <006101c2dd09$d9a26d20$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>

I have read in a message by Steve Schultz that there are 2.9BSD drivers for
the DHV11-A around. Can I still find them?



From sms at 2BSD.COM  Wed Feb 26 04:07:55 2003
From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:07:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] Success!
Message-ID: <200302251807.h1PI7tS29457@moe.2bsd.com>

> From: David Evans <dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca>
> > Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches.

> 
>   If somebody goes through this pain, any chance of making a new source kit?

	Most of the kits I've seen out there are around #430 or so - that
	only leaves a dozen or so patches that need to be applied.

> Though I guess some of the patches are not necessarily desirable in all
> circumstances...

	By and large they are not only desirable but necessary/mandatory.  There
	are very few 'frivolous' ("gee, this looks like fun") patches in the
	batch.   Trying to "pick and choose" which parts of which patches to
	apply might be doable in the short term but there _will_ come the
	day when a bug is encountered or a feature desired that was fixed or
	added as one of the parts/patches that was left out.   Best to get
	the pain over _once_ and be done with it ;)

	Cheers,
	Steven Schultz


From sms at 2BSD.COM  Wed Feb 26 04:02:24 2003
From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:02:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] Success!
Message-ID: <200302251802.h1PI2O929448@moe.2bsd.com>

> From: Christopher McNabb <cmcnabb at vt.edu>
> $ dmesg
> 
> Feb 25 12:02
> ...
> <5>ra0: Ver 2 mod 3
> ra0: RD54  size=311200
> attaching qe0 csr 174440
> qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:b7:53
> attaching lo0
> 
> phys mem  = 2097152
> avail mem = 1727488
> user mem  = 307200

	Congratulations!

> Now it looks like all I have left to do is install 400 odd patches.

	Actually you only need to install the ones _after_ the one listed
	in /VERSION.    Look at the first line of /VERSION, it should look
	something like this:

		Current Patch Level: 444

	then all you need are the ones between your current version and 444
	(which is the latest).

	Be sure you have the complete system (all the sources, and include
	files, etc) installed and read/follow the directions (which are
	quite extensive) included with each patch.   SOME patches can be
	"batched" (if a couple patches in sequence are updating the kernel
	then you don't need to rebuild the kernel after each patch, etc).

	Good Luck!

	Steven Schultz


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Wed Feb 26 13:45:09 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:45:09 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9
In-Reply-To: <006101c2dd09$d9a26d20$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr> from Christos Papachristou
 at "Feb 25, 2003 10:09:48 pm"
Message-ID: <200302260345.h1Q3j9G86503@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Christos Papachristou:
> I have read in a message by Steve Schultz that there are 2.9BSD drivers for
> the DHV11-A around. Can I still find them?

How about:

./net/sys/dev/dvhp.c    in PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD/usr.tar.gz

P.S zgrepping lists/full_filelist.gz in the Archive is very useful!

	Warren


From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Wed Feb 26 14:42:05 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:42:05 -0500
Subject: [pups] E-11 and 2.9BSD
Message-ID: <000401c2dd51$81b4e280$dbc2580c@who5>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Okay, here goes:
I have the current version of E-11 booting correctly on my Windows
based, (Currently!), backup box. I have booted the 2.9BSD image found
in the boot images directory from the FTP server. Does any one have
any suggestions as to how to restore an entire system to an E-11 based
setup? I have a bunch of empties that were created by John Wilson for
his emulator.

By the way, Warren your instructions for using the version that's on
the FTP server worked with this one.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )






From chpap at ics.forth.gr  Wed Feb 26 22:25:38 2003
From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:25:38 +0200
Subject: [pups] (no subject)
Message-ID: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>

A few questions from a newbie:
I have installed 2.9BSD on a microPDP11/73 with an RD52, using the MSCP
version of Jonathan Engdahl. After startup the kernel
indicates 160kb of memory .I am not familiar with such an old unix to
find out the details but  I understand it as 256k minus the kernel. The memory
is M8067-LF i.e. 512k Qbus. Does this mean that the system can't see the
rest of it and that I have configure/recompile the kernel?
The system seems anyway to run fine.
I haven't seen an operational PDP with UNIX before this,
so I can't judge its speed. When in single user mode it seems to
me that it runs "fast". However upon entering multi user mode the speed
drops dramaticaly. I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer
(DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are
loaded. So ,why is there such a change in speed? Does the multiuser mode
just rise the nice value of the console tasks?

Some information on the system. It is a KDJ11-B (M8190 -no suffix) i.e. an
11/84. So, the label on the system says microPDP11/73 (in an BA23 enclosure)
the cpu is an 11/84 (if the FPU socket is the DIP-40 slot then it is
unused), and the  2.11BSD second stage boot (version from vtserver) I
have tried indicates 11/83. The memory is after the CPU and is Qbus (M867-LF).
If I have understood what I have read in the list, this must be a mixed
system that could use PMI memory, but just uses Qbus?? What exactly is my
system? . Moreover the MSCP controller (M8639 YP i.e. RQDX1)
the serial port multiplexer(M3104 i.e. DHV11-A) and the memory are Qbus while
the cpu board is indicated as Unibus in the field guide. Can these two bus type
s be mixed? (If yes , i would be tempted to abuse the dead VAX11/780 in the
basement. Can this be done?). Anyway, I thought that the best choice of
a UNIX for it since it only has an RD52 woulbe 2.9 BSD with MSCP support.
Was this a good guess?
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From bqt at update.uu.se  Wed Feb 26 23:04:39 2003
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:04:39 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0302261358240.23561-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Christos Papachristou wrote:

> A few questions from a newbie:
> I have installed 2.9BSD on a microPDP11/73 with an RD52, using the MSCP
> version of Jonathan Engdahl. After startup the kernel
> indicates 160kb of memory .I am not familiar with such an old unix to
> find out the details but  I understand it as 256k minus the kernel. The memory
> is M8067-LF i.e. 512k Qbus. Does this mean that the system can't see the
> rest of it and that I have configure/recompile the kernel?
> The system seems anyway to run fine.

Are you sure it's reporting bytes, and not words?

> I haven't seen an operational PDP with UNIX before this,
> so I can't judge its speed. When in single user mode it seems to
> me that it runs "fast". However upon entering multi user mode the speed
> drops dramaticaly. I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer
> (DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are
> loaded. So ,why is there such a change in speed? Does the multiuser mode
> just rise the nice value of the console tasks?

There shouldn't be a big difference in speed. Are you starting some heavy
demons?

> Some information on the system. It is a KDJ11-B (M8190 -no suffix) i.e. an
> 11/84. So, the label on the system says microPDP11/73 (in an BA23 enclosure)
> the cpu is an 11/84 (if the FPU socket is the DIP-40 slot then it is
> unused), and the  2.11BSD second stage boot (version from vtserver) I
> have tried indicates 11/83. The memory is after the CPU and is Qbus (M867-LF).
> If I have understood what I have read in the list, this must be a mixed
> system that could use PMI memory, but just uses Qbus?? What exactly is my
> system?

There exists a specific 11/73 CPU card, but we'll ignore that for now.
The 11/73, 11/83 and 11/84 all use the same CPU card.
The differences are in other areas, and cannot always easily be detected
by software.
The difference between an 11/73 and 11/83 is if the system have Qbus
memory or PMI memory. The difference between an 11/83 and 11/84 is if the
system have the KT84 (or whatever the card is called, my memory fails me
at the moment) Unibus map, which is a Q-bus to Unibus converter along with
the Unibus map required. The CPU is always on a Qbus, but in the 11/84,
nothing but CPU and PMI memory is on this bus.

> Moreover the MSCP controller (M8639 YP i.e. RQDX1)
> the serial port multiplexer(M3104 i.e. DHV11-A) and the memory are Qbus while
> the cpu board is indicated as Unibus in the field guide. Can these two bus type
> s be mixed? (If yes , i would be tempted to abuse the dead VAX11/780 in the
> basement. Can this be done?).

No.
As stated above, the CPU card is actually always Qbus. In the 11/84 you
have a bus adapter to connect the Unibus.

> Anyway, I thought that the best choice of
> a UNIX for it since it only has an RD52 woulbe 2.9 BSD with MSCP support.
> Was this a good guess?

Yes, since you probably don't want to pay a lot of money to Mentec for one
of their OSes. 2.11 is much nicer, but you'll want more memory and disk
space for that.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Thu Feb 27 01:17:07 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:17:07 -0500
Subject: [pups] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>; from chpap@ics.forth.gr on Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 02:25:38PM +0200
References: <001c01c2dd92$2c23e9b0$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>
Message-ID: <20030226101707.A6899@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 02:25:38PM +0200, Christos Papachristou wrote:
> I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer
> (DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are
> loaded.

  Are you *sure* that there are no gettys?  The default install might fire
them up anyway, and they will repeatedly die and be restarted.  It's been over
ten years since I looked at a 2.9BSD system, and that was on a Pro350, so I
can't really help much more than that.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From chpap at ics.forth.gr  Thu Feb 27 02:57:55 2003
From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:57:55 +0200
Subject: [pups] (no subject)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0302261358240.23561-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <006901c2ddb8$3599d470$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Johnny Billquist" <bqt at update.uu.se>
To: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] (no subject)


> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Christos Papachristou wrote:
>
> > A few questions from a newbie:
> > I have installed 2.9BSD on a microPDP11/73 with an RD52, using the MSCP
> > version of Jonathan Engdahl. After startup the kernel
> > indicates 160kb of memory .I am not familiar with such an old unix to
> > find out the details but  I understand it as 256k minus the kernel. The
memory
> > is M8067-LF i.e. 512k Qbus. Does this mean that the system can't see the
> > rest of it and that I have configure/recompile the kernel?
> > The system seems anyway to run fine.
>
> Are you sure it's reporting bytes, and not words?

I don't know ,it just says mem=158720


>
> > I haven't seen an operational PDP with UNIX before this,
> > so I can't judge its speed. When in single user mode it seems to
> > me that it runs "fast". However upon entering multi user mode the speed
> > drops dramaticaly. I have not yet compiled in the 8 port multiplexer
> > (DHV11-A), so only the console is functional and thus no gettys are
> > loaded. So ,why is there such a change in speed? Does the multiuser mode
> > just rise the nice value of the console tasks?
>
> There shouldn't be a big difference in speed. Are you starting some heavy
> demons?
No. It wasn't a problem in speed, the default configuration for getty was
wrong (it was
configured for LA36 printer output). This is the first time I use a UNIX
that was meant for dialups with 110-9600 modems or terminals so please
excuse me. But I am learning... By the way
the console runs at 38.4kbps , but the gettys are internaly configured at
other speeds ,
the highest being 9.6kbps. Can't I use the full speed of the port?


> > Some information on the system. It is a KDJ11-B (M8190 -no suffix) i.e.
an
> > 11/84. So, the label on the system says microPDP11/73 (in an BA23
enclosure)
> > the cpu is an 11/84 (if the FPU socket is the DIP-40 slot then it is
> > unused), and the  2.11BSD second stage boot (version from vtserver) I
> > have tried indicates 11/83. The memory is after the CPU and is Qbus
(M867-LF).
> > If I have understood what I have read in the list, this must be a mixed
> > system that could use PMI memory, but just uses Qbus?? What exactly is
my
> > system?
>
> There exists a specific 11/73 CPU card, but we'll ignore that for now.
> The 11/73, 11/83 and 11/84 all use the same CPU card.
> The differences are in other areas, and cannot always easily be detected
> by software.
> The difference between an 11/73 and 11/83 is if the system have Qbus
> memory or PMI memory. The difference between an 11/83 and 11/84 is if the
> system have the KT84 (or whatever the card is called, my memory fails me
> at the moment) Unibus map, which is a Q-bus to Unibus converter along with
> the Unibus map required. The CPU is always on a Qbus, but in the 11/84,
> nothing but CPU and PMI memory is on this bus.
>
> > Moreover the MSCP controller (M8639 YP i.e. RQDX1)
> > the serial port multiplexer(M3104 i.e. DHV11-A) and the memory are Qbus
while
> > the cpu board is indicated as Unibus in the field guide. Can these two
bus type
> > s be mixed? (If yes , i would be tempted to abuse the dead VAX11/780 in
the
> > basement. Can this be done?).
>
> No.
> As stated above, the CPU card is actually always Qbus. In the 11/84 you
> have a bus adapter to connect the Unibus.
>
> > Anyway, I thought that the best choice of
> > a UNIX for it since it only has an RD52 woulbe 2.9 BSD with MSCP
support.
> > Was this a good guess?
>
> Yes, since you probably don't want to pay a lot of money to Mentec for one
> of their OSes. 2.11 is much nicer, but you'll want more memory and disk
> space for that.
>
> Johnny
>
> Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
>                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
> email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
> pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
>



From chpap at ics.forth.gr  Thu Feb 27 02:58:59 2003
From: chpap at ics.forth.gr (Christos Papachristou)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:58:59 +0200
Subject: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9
Message-ID: <007201c2ddb8$5b593890$77b95b8b@ics.forth.gr>

 The driver is for a DIVA COMP V controller.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Warren Toomey" <wkt at minnie.tuhs.org>
> To: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap at ics.forth.gr>
> Cc: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:45 AM
> Subject: Re: [pups] DHV11 on BSD2.9
>
>
> > In article by Christos Papachristou:
> > > I have read in a message by Steve Schultz that there are 2.9BSD
drivers
> for
> > > the DHV11-A around. Can I still find them?
> >
> > How about:
> >
> > ./net/sys/dev/dvhp.c    in PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD/usr.tar.gz
> >
> > P.S zgrepping lists/full_filelist.gz in the Archive is very useful!
> >
> > Warren
> > _______________________________________________
> > PUPS mailing list
> > PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
>



From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Thu Feb 27 17:46:34 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:46:34 -0500
Subject: [pups] CDROM drives and PDP-11s
Message-ID: <000301c2de34$5aa19600$1cc5580c@who5>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Here's the problem. I have several CDs containing programs, and such
like from Tim Shoppa. Two of them say they contain portions which are
readable only by a CDROM Drive attached to a PDP-11. One of them is
split in half. Half is readable on either of the two computers here,
the other half, is in a format that's native to the PDP-11. The other
is all in that proprietary format. So, has anyone managed to get them
read to their machines? Or failing that to the appropriate simulators,
or even emulators? Any suggestions?
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )






From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Fri Feb 28 01:08:26 2003
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:08:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
Message-ID: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>

I am trying to put 2.11 on one of my 11/44's.  I picked up the RL02/RK
images from the archive.  I put the RL02 images on real RL02's (Yes,
some of us still have and use them!! :-)  My intent was to boot this
and then use it to build a system on a bigger disk and then go on from
there.

Here's my configuration:

  11/44 CPU
  CIS
  EIS
  FP11
  4M memory (actually 3840KB)
  MMU

  3 RL02 disks
  A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape

Now the problem.
The system boots fine.  And it will mount /dev/rl1a.  But it won't mount
/dev/rl2a.  I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address".
I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel.  What's more, I also
get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices.  I am
using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it.

Anybody have any suggestions??

Of course, if I find that the SCSI Controller isn't going to work
I have another controller and a FUJI Eagle I could use too. But I
am certain I will need to get all three RL's working in order to
have enough of a system to do this.

Thanks in advance,

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>



From dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca  Fri Feb 28 01:55:12 2003
From: dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca (David Evans)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:55:12 -0500
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
In-Reply-To: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>; from bill@cs.scranton.edu on Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 10:08:26AM -0500
References: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>
Message-ID: <20030227105512.D28746@bcr10.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 10:08:26AM -0500, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> 
>   A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape
> 

  You could also stick a bigger disk image (I think I used one for an RA80)
on a SCSI disk and go that way.

-- 
David Evans          (NeXTMail/MIME OK)             dfevans at bbcr.uwaterloo.ca
Ph.D. Candidate, Computer/Synth Junkie     http://bbcr.uwaterloo.ca/~dfevans/
University of Waterloo         "Default is the value selected by the composer
Ontario, Canada           overridden by your command." - Roland TR-707 Manual


From Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl  Fri Feb 28 01:57:21 2003
From: Fred.van.Kempen at microwalt.nl (Fred N. van Kempen)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:57:21 +0100
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
Message-ID: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DB2E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>

Bill,

kernel probably only supports one unit, _OR_ the filesystem doesnt
have all device nodes (/dev/rlXXX).

--f

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Gunshannon [mailto:bill at cs.scranton.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:08 PM
> To: pups at minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying to put 2.11 on one of my 11/44's.  I picked up the RL02/RK
> images from the archive.  I put the RL02 images on real RL02's (Yes,
> some of us still have and use them!! :-)  My intent was to boot this
> and then use it to build a system on a bigger disk and then go on from
> there.
> 
> Here's my configuration:
> 
>   11/44 CPU
>   CIS
>   EIS
>   FP11
>   4M memory (actually 3840KB)
>   MMU
> 
>   3 RL02 disks
>   A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape
> 
> Now the problem.
> The system boots fine.  And it will mount /dev/rl1a.  But it 
> won't mount
> /dev/rl2a.  I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address".
> I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel.  What's 
> more, I also
> get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices.  I am
> using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions??
> 
> Of course, if I find that the SCSI Controller isn't going to work
> I have another controller and a FUJI Eagle I could use too. But I
> am certain I will need to get all three RL's working in order to
> have enough of a system to do this.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> bill
> 
> -- 
> Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  
> Three wolves
> bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
> University of Scranton   |
> Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
> 


From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Fri Feb 28 02:02:05 2003
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:02:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
In-Reply-To: <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F7721409DB2E@mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>
Message-ID: <20030227105917.S43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Fred N. van Kempen wrote:

> Bill,
>
> kernel probably only supports one unit, _OR_ the filesystem doesnt
> have all device nodes (/dev/rlXXX).

Same set of images (and kernel) works fine under SIMH.  Mounts 4 RL's
without a problem.  It is not till I put it on the real PDP that I have
the problem.

I should also mention it is not hardware as I can shift the Unit Plugs
around and the behavior is the same.  RL0 and RL1 mount, nothing else
is visible.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>



From bqt at update.uu.se  Fri Feb 28 02:28:01 2003
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:28:01 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
In-Reply-To: <20030227093041.Y43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0302271727050.8407-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

[...]

> Now the problem.
> The system boots fine.  And it will mount /dev/rl1a.  But it won't mount
> /dev/rl2a.  I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address".
> I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel.  What's more, I also
> get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices.  I am
> using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions??

What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the
mscp-controller along with disks?

Second, do you have the entries in /dev?

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Fri Feb 28 02:42:29 2003
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:42:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0302271727050.8407-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <20030227112931.C43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > Now the problem.
> > The system boots fine.  And it will mount /dev/rl1a.  But it won't mount
> > /dev/rl2a.  I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address".
> > I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel.  What's more, I also
> > get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices.  I am
> > using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it.
> >
> > Anybody have any suggestions??
>
> What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the
> mscp-controller along with disks?

Actually, I am surprised by the lack of information provided.  I guess
the newer BSD's have spoiled me.  :-)

------------------
>>>boot dl0

(Program)
44Boot from rl(0,0,0) at 0174400
:
: rl(0,0,0)unix
Boot: bootdev=03400 bootcsr=0174400
2.11 BSD UNIX #5: Thu Jan 11 21:32:08 PST 1996
    sms1 at sms.sms.iipo.gtegsc.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC


phys mem  = 3932160
avail mem = 3719616
user mem  = 307200

February 29 23:09:36 init: configure system

rk ? csr 177400 vector 220 skipped:  No autoconfig routines.
rl 0 csr 174400 vector 160 attached
erase, kill ^U, intr ^C
#

------------------------

And that's it!!
I have commented out the RK entries in /etc/fstab as I certainly don't
have any real RK disks.  :-)

Next, I usually do:
---------------
# mount -a
/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address
#
-------------------

And so it goes.

I should probably mention again, these are the 2.11_on_rl02 images from
the archive.  It consists of 4 RL02's and 6 RK's and it boots and runs
fine under SIMH.

>
> Second, do you have the entries in /dev?
>

Maybe I'll try running MAKEDEV just to be sure there isn't something
corrupted, but being as the boot disk and vol1 both transfered and
copyed to real packs OK I have no reason to suspect there is anything
wrong with the data on the pack.  Hmmmmm... Maybe I'm just paranoid,
but I don;t think I will make this assumption.  I think I will make
a new vol2 pack anyway.

But that still leaves why I see no RA's either.

Any more suggestions?

Is there anyone running a webserver on a PDP-11??  Or will I be the
first when I get this going??  I was going to do it with Ultrix-11
but I think it may be easier to get up and definitely more stable on
2.11BSD.  Ultrix-11 still needs more work getting it back up to real
production quality. (But I plan on doing it!!)

All the best.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>



From bqt at update.uu.se  Fri Feb 28 02:59:29 2003
From: bqt at update.uu.se (Johnny Billquist)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:59:29 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
In-Reply-To: <20030227112931.C43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0302271756420.8407-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> 
> > What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the
> > mscp-controller along with disks?
> 
> Actually, I am surprised by the lack of information provided.  I guess
> the newer BSD's have spoiled me.  :-)

[stuff deleted...]

Hmmm. It's been a while since I ran 2.11, but I'm pretty sure you should
see something about the controller at boot. That it attaches, it's csr and
what vector it will use. The same way you observe the RL11 controller.

Seems like you don't have the controller available from the OS.
Have you used the controller anywhere else, so that you know it's
functioning, and that the CSR is set right?

About the RL drives, I guess we'll just have to assume that you don't have
more than two units generated in the system, unless you have some very
funny hardware problem.


Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt at update.uu.se           ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol



From sms at 2BSD.COM  Fri Feb 28 03:06:13 2003
From: sms at 2BSD.COM (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:06:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
Message-ID: <200302271706.h1RH6Du03730@moe.2bsd.com>

Hi -

> From: Bill Gunshannon <bill at cs.scranton.edu>
> 
> I am trying to put 2.11 on one of my 11/44's.  I picked up the RL02/RK
> images from the archive.  I put the RL02 images on real RL02's (Yes,
> some of us still have and use them!! :-)  My intent was to boot this

	RL drives were reliable (compared to RA81 and RK06/7 drives) if not 
	exactly spacious ;)

>   3 RL02 disks
>   A CDU/720-TM SCSI Controller with 4 MAXTOR 340M disks and a QIC tape
> 
> Now the problem.
> The system boots fine.  And it will mount /dev/rl1a.  But it won't mount
> /dev/rl2a.  I get "/dev/rl2a on /vol2: No such device or address".

	What rev of the kernel do you have?   First line in /VERSION should
	have the magic number.

> I get the same error when I try to do a disklabel.  What's more, I also
> get this same error when I try to access any of the RA devices.  I am
> using the GENERIC Kernel which I assume has all the devices in it.
> 
> Anybody have any suggestions??
	
	What I think is happening is that the system is only configured for
	2 RL drives - the change from 2 to 4 happened quite late (patch #439
	I think).

	The RA problem sounds like the MSCP driver either isn't in the
	kernel or wasn't probed/attached at boot time.     You can see if
	MSCP support's present with something like 'nm -g /unix | grep _raintr"
	and seeing if you "040364 T _raintr" for the interrupt handler.   If
	you do get that then check /etc/dtab for a line like:

ra      ? 172150 0      5       raintr          # uda50, rqdx1/2/3

	The '0' for the vector says for the probe/attach logic to assign
	a vector and tell the controller what value was used.  You could put
	anything in there (154 or 150 I think is the assigned value for the
	first MSCP controller).

	If none of that works then I'm stumped as to why the RA drives can't
	be accessed.

	Good Luck.

	Steven Schultz


From iking at killthewabbit.org  Fri Feb 28 02:52:54 2003
From: iking at killthewabbit.org (Ian King)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:52:54 -0800
Subject: [pups] CDROM drives and PDP-11s
References: <000301c2de34$5aa19600$1cc5580c@who5>
Message-ID: <001301c2de80$abf1b5c0$450010ac@dawabbit>

John Wilson's PUTR program might be jut the tool - http://www.dbit.com.  I'm
guessing it might be ODS-2; worst case, I have an InfoServer that can read
that, and a TK-50 I could dump it to...  :-)  -- Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net>
To: <pups at minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:46 PM
Subject: [pups] CDROM drives and PDP-11s


Hello from Gregg C Levine
Here's the problem. I have several CDs containing programs, and such
like from Tim Shoppa. Two of them say they contain portions which are
readable only by a CDROM Drive attached to a PDP-11. One of them is
split in half. Half is readable on either of the two computers here,
the other half, is in a format that's native to the PDP-11. The other
is all in that proprietary format. So, has anyone managed to get them
read to their machines? Or failing that to the appropriate simulators,
or even emulators? Any suggestions?
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )




_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS at minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups



From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Fri Feb 28 03:33:25 2003
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:33:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0302271756420.8407-100000@Tempo.Update.UU.SE>
Message-ID: <20030227122420.S43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Johnny Billquist wrote:
> >
> > > What do you see at boot time? Does it show all three RL02s and the
> > > mscp-controller along with disks?
> >
> > Actually, I am surprised by the lack of information provided.  I guess
> > the newer BSD's have spoiled me.  :-)
>
> [stuff deleted...]
>
> Hmmm. It's been a while since I ran 2.11, but I'm pretty sure you should
> see something about the controller at boot. That it attaches, it's csr and
> what vector it will use. The same way you observe the RL11 controller.

Hmmmm.  Curious.  I looked at the conf for GENERIC and it had all the
disks.  Maybe I need to build a kernel under SIMH and then move it over
to the real box.  Should be a trip, I've never built a kernel under 2.x.
Wonder how close it is to todays BSD's where I do it al the time.

>
> Seems like you don't have the controller available from the OS.
> Have you used the controller anywhere else, so that you know it's
> functioning, and that the CSR is set right?

Yup.  Had RSTS on it when I got it and I tried RT-11 from an
RL and was able to init Packs, copy files and even boot as a DU.
HA LI from the RSTS Startup reports iit's offspring as RA8x disks.


>
> About the RL drives, I guess we'll just have to assume that you don't have
> more than two units generated in the system,

The same kernel mounts all 4 RL02's under SIMH.  :-(

>                                             unless you have some very
> funny hardware problem.

Maybe I need to crawl in back and check out everything.  Could the
terminator getting knocked loose cause this??  It's interesting that
it isn't a particular drive that doesn't whow up, it is the highest
numbered unit.  Unless I am looking at this wrong.  Do the numbers
assigned by the Unit Plug coincide with the dev number or does it
just assign devices sequentially for each drive it sees?  In other
words, if I had a unit with a 0 plug and a 3 plug would that show
up as /dev/rl0 and /dev/rl3 or as /dev/rl0 and /dev/rl1?
Hope that's understandable....


bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>



From bill at cs.scranton.edu  Fri Feb 28 06:25:35 2003
From: bill at cs.scranton.edu (Bill Gunshannon)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:25:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pups] 2.11 on an 11/44
In-Reply-To: <20030227122420.S43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>
Message-ID: <20030227152034.N43050-100000@server1.cs.uofs.edu>

Well, the fun continues. I guess it's not going to be as simple as
it is with newer BSD's.

When I try to build a custom kernel I get this:

---------------

# make|more
make -f Make.sys I=/usr/include H=../h M=../machine AS="/bin/as -V" CPP="/lib/cpp -P -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h"  CFLAGS="-O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h" ED="/bin/ed"
cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/init_main.c
/bin/ed - < SPLFIX init_main.s
/bin/as -V - -o init_main.o init_main.s
rm -f init_main.s
cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/init_sysent.c
/bin/ed - < SPLFIX init_sysent.s
/bin/as -V - -o init_sysent.o init_sysent.s
rm -f init_sysent.s
cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/kern_acct.c
/bin/ed - < SPLFIX kern_acct.s
/bin/as -V - -o kern_acct.o kern_acct.s
rm -f kern_acct.s
cc -O -DKERNEL -DUOFS -I. -I../h -S ../sys/kern_clock.c
/bin/ed - < SPLFIX kern_clock.s
?
?
?
?
?
----------------------

And the "?" go on forever. Can't even break out of it.  Have to
kill the simulation and start all over.  Anybody run into this??
Seems to be in the clock code.  Is there something I might have
missed in the CONFIG file that could cause this??  All I basicly
did was comment out any hardware I was pretty sure wasn't going
to show up on my machine.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
bill at cs.scranton.edu     |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>



From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Tue Feb 18 06:27:40 2003
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:27:40 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Test
Message-ID: <3E5145BC.A981DD04@worldnet.att.net>

Test!
Sorry for the disturbance, I have not seen any mail on the list, since
sometime in the past.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"This signature would rather be out in the snow!"


From jss at subatomix.com  Tue Feb 18 10:38:17 2003
From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:38:17 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] Test
In-Reply-To: <3E5145BC.A981DD04@worldnet.att.net>
References: <3E5145BC.A981DD04@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <91375728.20030217183817@subatomix.com>

On Monday, February 17, 2003, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Sorry for the disturbance, I have not seen any mail on the list, since
> sometime in the past.

This list is most definitely low-volume.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp



From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Tue Feb 18 10:52:45 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:52:45 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Waking the List Up
Message-ID: <200302180052.h1I0qkC65023@minnie.tuhs.org>

I guess it's time to wake the list up.

So far the Unix Archive has done well at collecting mostly PDP-11 stuff,
but now that were in the next century, we should start working on the
1980s and 1990s.

I'd like to call for volunteer curators. Each would look after a subset
of the Unix Archive: add files, write README.TXT, rearrange things to
be more useful.

The Archive has been pretty static for quite some time now, and there are
a list of things TODO, and I know some of you have things waiting which I
haven't done yet. So perhaps some new blood, will kick things along.

Any volunteers?


From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca  Tue Feb 18 11:26:43 2003
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:26:43 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Test
Message-ID: <vHt946rNmMKs.6Wbj3HrG@192.168.0.10>

  This list is most definitely low-volume.

Speak up, please.  We can't hear you up here under the snow.

Norman Wilson
In a naughtly rosewood igloo somewhere near Toronto, ON




From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Tue Feb 18 13:42:23 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:42:23 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Waking the List Up
In-Reply-To: <200302180052.h1I0qkC65023@minnie.tuhs.org> from Warren Toomey at
 "Feb 18, 2003 10:52:45 am"
Message-ID: <200302180342.h1I3gOO66783@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Warren Toomey:
> I'd like to call for volunteer curators. Each would look after a subset
> of the Unix Archive: add files, write README.TXT, rearrange things to
> be more useful.

So far two respondents. I should be a little bit more explicit. I'm
after volunteers who will act as points of contact, so that other people
can submit new stuff to the archive. The volunteers could also
re-organise their subsection, and write some glue documentation so that
someone browsing the archive can make sense of it all.

So, if you have low bandwidth and/or no new files to contribute, that's
fine! Just a desire to help tidy up the existing archive and help integrate
any new material.

	Warren


From wgm at telus.net  Wed Feb 19 15:31:05 2003
From: wgm at telus.net (Wm. G. McGrath)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:31:05 -0800
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
Message-ID: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net>

Howdy all,

	Is it possible that the Unix Archive might be able to get a little
funding or assistance from the Library of Congress? This recent
story in the Washington Post suggests that there is now a lot of
money available in theory at least. I wonder if we would qualify for
funding?

	bill

 Plan Approved to Save U.S. Digital History - 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10278-2003Feb14.html?referrer=email
The Library of Congress announced the next step in the effort to 
preserve that history: congressional approval of its plan for the 
National Digital Information Infrastructure and Preservation
Program.


From Robertdkeys at aol.com  Wed Feb 19 17:08:09 2003
From: Robertdkeys at aol.com (Robertdkeys at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:08:09 EST
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
Message-ID: <d0.3501fb10.2b848759@aol.com>

Wild long shot.... I used to write grants for this kind of thing.   Find out 
more
info and point me to where the granting info is and lets make a collective
grunt to see if something is possible.  Heck, all kinds of funds are available
if you submit the right kinds of proposals.  Yeah, I know, it is a pipedream,
but.....(:+}}...

Bob Keys
(stirring the history pot, gently.....)



From Robertdkeys at aol.com  Wed Feb 19 17:41:33 2003
From: Robertdkeys at aol.com (Robertdkeys at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 02:41:33 EST
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
Message-ID: <1dd.31bc35f.2b848f2d@aol.com>

As I am reading the details of this, it seems that they are at a planning 
stage,
and wanting to coordinate the Library of Congress centrally with other federal
and non-federal agencies and organizations to develop the "network" of
libraries and repositories for these materials.  It was not clear what funding
was available to non-federal agencies.  My expectation is that the PUPS
and TUHS efforts ought to be somewhere in the overall thicket of the Library
of Congress effort.  We need to find out more about this legislation and
potential work and funding.  It sounds very interesting...

Spinning the ol' propeller-headed beanie at full speed, and thinking out 
loud....

Bob Keys


From grog at lemis.com  Wed Feb 19 19:17:21 2003
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:47:21 +1030
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
In-Reply-To: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net>
References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net>
Message-ID: <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Tuesday, 18 February 2003 at 21:31:05 -0800, Wm. G. McGrath wrote:
>
> Howdy all,
>
> 	Is it possible that the Unix Archive might be able to get a
> little funding or assistance from the Library of Congress? This
> recent story in the Washington Post suggests that there is now a lot
> of money available in theory at least. I wonder if we would qualify
> for funding?

You know that TUHS is based in Australia, right?  "Federal" has a
different meaning here.  Of course, there's a possibility that the
Australian government would be interested.  I'll investigate.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com.
See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details.
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From iking at windows.microsoft.com  Thu Feb 20 01:26:19 2003
From: iking at windows.microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:26:19 -0800
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
Message-ID: <F7B97826912BC4419D5DDF53B2169453019671D9@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>

This sounds similar to some work with which I'm involved at the
University of Washington.  I'll see what I can learn....  -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robertdkeys at aol.com [mailto:Robertdkeys at aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:42 PM
To: wgm at telus.net; tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history

As I am reading the details of this, it seems that they are at a
planning 
stage,
and wanting to coordinate the Library of Congress centrally with other
federal
and non-federal agencies and organizations to develop the "network" of
libraries and repositories for these materials.  It was not clear what
funding
was available to non-federal agencies.  My expectation is that the PUPS
and TUHS efforts ought to be somewhere in the overall thicket of the
Library
of Congress effort.  We need to find out more about this legislation and
potential work and funding.  It sounds very interesting...

Spinning the ol' propeller-headed beanie at full speed, and thinking out

loud....

Bob Keys
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From iking at windows.microsoft.com  Thu Feb 20 01:29:13 2003
From: iking at windows.microsoft.com (Ian King)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 07:29:13 -0800
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
Message-ID: <F7B97826912BC4419D5DDF53B2169453019671DA@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>

Oops, did that go out in HTML?  Sorry, new install of Outlook....  

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian King 
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 7:26 AM
To: 'Robertdkeys at aol.com'; wgm at telus.net; tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: RE: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history


This sounds similar to some work with which I'm involved at the
University of Washington.  I'll see what I can learn....  -- Ian 

-----Original Message-----
From: Robertdkeys at aol.com [mailto:Robertdkeys at aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:42 PM
To: wgm at telus.net; tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history

As I am reading the details of this, it seems that they are at a
planning 
stage,
and wanting to coordinate the Library of Congress centrally with other
federal and non-federal agencies and organizations to develop the
"network" of libraries and repositories for these materials.  It was not
clear what funding was available to non-federal agencies.  My
expectation is that the PUPS and TUHS efforts ought to be somewhere in
the overall thicket of the Library of Congress effort.  We need to find
out more about this legislation and potential work and funding.  It
sounds very interesting...

Spinning the ol' propeller-headed beanie at full speed, and thinking out

loud....

Bob Keys
_______________________________________________
TUHS mailing list
TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs


From drwho8 at worldnet.att.net  Thu Feb 20 02:56:41 2003
From: drwho8 at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:56:41 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Tim Shoppa's V6 distribution
Message-ID: <3E53B749.D906A2B6@worldnet.att.net>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Has anyone ever gotten Tim Shoppa's V6 distribution to work, under any
version of Simh? Theoretically it should be possible, but  I haven't a
clew, as to how to do so. Any suggestions? I'll leave the networking
issues alone for the moment.
Gregg C Levine drwho8 at worldnet.att.net
"This signature owns a house on Belsavis."


From jss at subatomix.com  Thu Feb 20 03:22:13 2003
From: jss at subatomix.com (Jeffrey Sharp)
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:22:13 -0600
Subject: [TUHS] HTML Posts (was: LoC now involved...)
In-Reply-To: <F7B97826912BC4419D5DDF53B2169453019671DA@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>
References:  <F7B97826912BC4419D5DDF53B2169453019671DA@WIN-MSG-10.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <13262421467.20030219112213@subatomix.com>

On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, Ian King wrote:
> Oops, did that go out in HTML?  Sorry, new install of Outlook....

The list manager (Warren?) can easily protect this and the PUPS list against
HTML, attachments, and other email badness by using demime. I use it on the
ClassicCmp lists. It basically drops into the aliases file:

    public-alias: "|/usr/local/bin/demime -8 'private-alias'"

Anything goes in, plain text comes out. It's as simple as that.

-- 
Jeffrey Sharp



From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au  Thu Feb 20 06:36:09 2003
From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 07:36:09 +1100
Subject: [TUHS] random(3) definition
Message-ID: <20030219203609.GA85462@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>

Does anyone here know why the BSD random(3) is defined to return a
positive int (31 bits) rather than a full 32 bits of pseudo-entropy?
(This came up is a discussion comparing random(3) with arc4random(3)
in another list).

Peter



From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Thu Feb 20 07:09:19 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 07:09:19 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] random(3) definition
In-Reply-To: <20030219203609.GA85462@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au> from Peter Jeremy
 at "Feb 20, 2003 07:36:09 am"
Message-ID: <200302192109.h1JL9JU91269@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Peter Jeremy:
> Does anyone here know why the BSD random(3) is defined to return a
> positive int (31 bits) rather than a full 32 bits of pseudo-entropy?
> (This came up is a discussion comparing random(3) with arc4random(3)
> in another list).
> Peter

<wild guess>
Maybe it's a C-ism. With a 31-bit shift register, the overflow is going
to stay in a 32-bit variable where it can be dealt with in C. If they
had used a 32-bit shift register, then grabbing the overflow becomes
more difficult.
</wild guess>

	Warren


From peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au  Thu Feb 20 08:02:28 2003
From: peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au (Peter Jeremy)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:02:28 +1100
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
In-Reply-To: <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com>
References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>

On 2003-Feb-19 19:47:21 +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
>You know that TUHS is based in Australia, right?  "Federal" has a
>different meaning here.  Of course, there's a possibility that the
>Australian government would be interested.  I'll investigate.

Not that great a difference.  Both Oz and the US have a very similar
Federal/state structure.  Getting US Federal funding for an Oz site
is unlikely (but the LoC is going to need to work out how to handle
the fact that the Internet doesn't acknowledge national boundaries
and some of the information it needs to archive won't be in the US).

Peter


From wgm at telus.net  Thu Feb 20 22:25:44 2003
From: wgm at telus.net (Wm. G. McGrath)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 04:25:44 -0800
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
In-Reply-To: <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>
References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net>
	<20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com>
	<20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030220042544.34ba2783.wgm@telus.net>

On Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:02:28 +1100
Peter Jeremy <peter.jeremy at alcatel.com.au> wrote:

>Not that great a difference.  Both Oz and the US have a very
>similar Federal/state structure.  Getting US Federal funding for an
>Oz site is unlikely (but the LoC is going to need to work out how
>to handle the fact that the Internet doesn't acknowledge national
>boundaries and some of the information it needs to archive won't be
>in the US).


Yup. There are lots of issues here. The story made it to /. 
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/16/2322243&mode=thread&tid=99
and things like media longevity, data formats, and future
availability came up in the comments section. I believe we need to
somehow provide the future with the benefit of our intelligence and
experience as well as with information. And TUHS can be of help
there. Besides, a great deal of Unix history (not all of it be any
means) was created in the US: Bell Labs, Digital, Sun, IBM, SCO,
Xenix, etc. So there is clearly a US 'interest'. I guess the
question may be whether the Library is going to archive systems or
restrict itself to content, ie web pages.

	bill


From Robertdkeys at aol.com  Fri Feb 21 03:24:09 2003
From: Robertdkeys at aol.com (Robertdkeys at aol.com)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:24:09 EST
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
Message-ID: <67.a912c89.2b866939@aol.com>

Maybe it might be played from the angle that a US mirror could
be granted funds in some manner, to complement the down
under repository.   Just a wild thought...

Bob Keys


From grog at lemis.com  Tue Feb 25 10:03:38 2003
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:33:38 +1030
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
In-Reply-To: <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>
References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net> <20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>
Message-ID: <20030225000338.GA2042@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Thursday, 20 February 2003 at  9:02:28 +1100, Peter Jeremy wrote:
> On 2003-Feb-19 19:47:21 +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
>> You know that TUHS is based in Australia, right?  "Federal" has a
>> different meaning here.  Of course, there's a possibility that the
>> Australian government would be interested.  I'll investigate.
>
> Not that great a difference.  Both Oz and the US have a very similar
> Federal/state structure.  Getting US Federal funding for an Oz site
> is unlikely (but the LoC is going to need to work out how to handle
> the fact that the Internet doesn't acknowledge national boundaries
> and some of the information it needs to archive won't be in the US).

Sorry, I wasn't clear.  In America, "Federal" refers to the American
federal government.  Here it refers to the Australian federal
government.  Thus, the funds that the original poster mentioned
would probably not be available.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com.
See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details.
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From tfb at tfeb.org  Wed Feb 26 02:13:25 2003
From: tfb at tfeb.org (Tim Bradshaw)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 16:13:25 +0000
Subject: [TUHS] Festoon
Message-ID: <15963.38437.680360.557601@tfeb.org>

Does anyone remember this program (probably /usr/games/festoon) and in
which Unixes it was distributed?  I think it must have existed in at
least some BSDs, but I'm fairly sure it wasn't in the ordinary 4.3
distribution.

--tim



From wgm at telus.net  Wed Feb 26 02:05:13 2003
From: wgm at telus.net (Wm. G. McGrath)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:05:13 -0800
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
In-Reply-To: <20030225000338.GA2042@wantadilla.lemis.com>
References: <20030218213105.04c7ab94.wgm@telus.net>
	<20030219091721.GW17256@wantadilla.lemis.com>
	<20030219220228.GT1877@gsmx07.alcatel.com.au>
	<20030225000338.GA2042@wantadilla.lemis.com>
Message-ID: <20030225080513.5b176bfe.wgm@telus.net>

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:33:38 +1030
"Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> wrote:

>Sorry, I wasn't clear.  In America, "Federal" refers to the
>American federal government.  Here it refers to the Australian
>federal government.  Thus, the funds that the original poster
>mentioned would probably not be available.

Clear enough. As a Canadian I'm certainly aware of the difference
between federal and regional goverments. AFAIK though Digital was a
Massachusetts company and thus the LoC has an interest in it's
activities - along with the rest of the American computer industry.
It's only logical that they'd have an interest in TUHS archives. It
would be a shame to see TUHS loose out because of a silly turf war.
Regardless of where the archive site hardware is located, the
information in TUHS archives is clearly American. If you are
interested in the preservation of Unix heritage I really can't see
the point of nationalistic hostility, refusing to cooperate, or at
least of trying. The LoC is certainly one of the best data
repositories on the planet, and a great way of ensuring that
knowledge about Unix is available to future generations. In my view
results will probably depend more upon how things are approached
rather then what country the server is located in. One thing is
perfectly clear. Digital heritage has become very important.

	bill

http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/ndiipp/repor/repor_plan.html
http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2003/03-022.html
http://www.loc.gov/


From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Wed Feb 26 03:51:31 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:51:31 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
In-Reply-To: <20030225080513.5b176bfe.wgm@telus.net>
Message-ID: <000001c2dcf6$8f957f00$7ec7580c@who5>

Hello from Gregg C Levine
Same here. But as an American I am fully aware of the differences on
all three levels. State, Federal, and City. And why they do, or don't
work. I did succeed in figuring out what our friend in Oz was talking
about. And I am pleased that the LoC is getting involved.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )



> -----Original Message-----
> From: tuhs-admin at minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-admin at minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Wm. G. McGrath
> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 11:05 AM
> To: tuhs
> Subject: Re: [TUHS] LoC now involved with saving digital history
> 
> On Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:33:38 +1030
> "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
> 
> >Sorry, I wasn't clear.  In America, "Federal" refers to the
> >American federal government.  Here it refers to the Australian
> >federal government.  Thus, the funds that the original poster
> >mentioned would probably not be available.
> 
> Clear enough. As a Canadian I'm certainly aware of the difference
> between federal and regional goverments. AFAIK though Digital was a
> Massachusetts company and thus the LoC has an interest in it's
> activities - along with the rest of the American computer industry.
> It's only logical that they'd have an interest in TUHS archives. It
> would be a shame to see TUHS loose out because of a silly turf war.
> Regardless of where the archive site hardware is located, the
> information in TUHS archives is clearly American. If you are
> interested in the preservation of Unix heritage I really can't see
> the point of nationalistic hostility, refusing to cooperate, or at
> least of trying. The LoC is certainly one of the best data
> repositories on the planet, and a great way of ensuring that
> knowledge about Unix is available to future generations. In my view
> results will probably depend more upon how things are approached
> rather then what country the server is located in. One thing is
> perfectly clear. Digital heritage has become very important.
> 
> 	bill
> 
> http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/ndiipp/repor/repor_plan.html
> http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2003/03-022.html
> http://www.loc.gov/
> _______________________________________________
> TUHS mailing list
> TUHS at minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs



From shoppa at trailing-edge.com  Wed Feb 26 08:52:35 2003
From: shoppa at trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:52:35 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Festoon
In-Reply-To: <15963.38437.680360.557601@tfeb.org>
References: <15963.38437.680360.557601@tfeb.org>
Message-ID: <3E5BF3B3.nailO3X1PA3FG@mini-me.trailing-edge.com>

>Does anyone remember this program (probably /usr/games/festoon)

It's come up at least twice on alt.folklore.computers in the last decade,
but I've never seen a pointer to the actual source yet.  e.g.

  http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&threadm=391cb661%40news.adfa.oz.au&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dfestoon%2Balt.folklore.computers%26ie%3DUTF-8%26oe%3DUTF-8%26hl%3Den%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch

Tim.


From norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca  Wed Feb 26 11:00:51 2003
From: norman at nose.cs.utoronto.ca (Norman Wilson)
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:00:51 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Festoon
Message-ID: <200302260101.h1Q11Qn84655@minnie.tuhs.org>

Ron Hardin, who worked at Western Electric in Columbus (I think)
at the time, confirms that he is the author:

  Festoon was mine, chiefly written one Saturday with a tragically flawed
  copy of Lester's _Introductory Transformational Grammar of English_
  bought that morning on a $1 table at Woolworth on my knee.

  The tragic flaw was that there are severe lexical constraints on language,
  which is why there are so many made-up words in festoon, to avoid them.

  The introduction of awful phrases came in reaction to writer's workbench
  from Lorinda Cherry, which had a real mine of them; and phrases from my
  boss, S D Hester, who was a wretched writer.  People contributed on noticing
  that.

  It was greatly helped by troff (``The _pay_ people to write this crap?'' is
  a typical reaction.  Apparently it was not out of the question for Western
  Electric.)

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
On the internet, nobody can tell you're whether you're on the internet.


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Wed Feb 26 13:40:15 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:40:15 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Festoon
In-Reply-To: <3E5BF3B3.nailO3X1PA3FG@mini-me.trailing-edge.com> from Tim Shoppa
 at "Feb 25, 2003 05:52:35 pm"
Message-ID: <200302260340.h1Q3eFY86417@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Tim Shoppa:
> >Does anyone remember this program (probably /usr/games/festoon)
> 
> It's come up at least twice on alt.folklore.computers in the last decade,
> but I've never seen a pointer to the actual source yet.

% tar vtzf PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.9BSD/usr.tar.gz | grep -i fest
-rwxrwxr-x 3/3           37484 Nov 17 13:00 1982 ./games/festoon
-rw-rw-rw- 1/1            3536 Aug  2 23:08 1983 ./man/cat6/festoon.6
-rw-r--r-- 3/3            3012 Aug  2 21:26 1983 ./man/man6/festoon.6

% tar vtzf Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix878889.tar.gz | grep -i festoon
drwxr-xr-x 100/10            0 Mar 29 06:53 1989 usenix89/:Bugs/Festoon/
drwxr-xr-x 100/10            0 Mar 29 06:53 1989 usenix89/:Bugs/Festoon/:BUGS/
-r--r--r-- 100/10         2975 Jul  2 02:48 1987 usenix89/:Bugs/Festoon/:BUGS/1

That's all I can find in the Unix Archive at present.

	Warren

P.S ./games/festoon is an 0407 binary. No source.



From dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com  Wed Feb 26 15:46:31 2003
From: dmr at plan9.bell-labs.com (Dennis Ritchie)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:46:31 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Festoon
Message-ID: <73468058224c3fd7d82f1bb84521dbb9@plan9.bell-labs.com>

I have the version of festoon, as enhanced by
Nils-Peter Nelson, and as Norman Wilson said, mainly
and originally done by Ron Hardin.  When the
Usenet interchange referred to happened, I asked
Ron whether he wanted to release it, and the
response was

 > fine with me

 > npn's version is at /home/rhh/coma/festoon/fest.c
 > with pics and tbls

 > i've lost the original

Incidentally, Hardin worked for Bell Labs, though
at the Columbus location also occupied by
Western Electric, and until fairly recently was
a consultant for our own and nearby groups.
The first Google pages for "hardin sloane"
yields a bunch of references to his joint
work with the well-known mathematician
N. J. A. Sloane.

Binary, but not source, was with research
8th edition, and may have escaped otherwise.

I'll make the source available to scholars if there's interest.
It even compiles on Plan 9 (with ape).

	Dennis



From hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net  Thu Feb 27 06:50:06 2003
From: hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net (Gregg C Levine)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:50:06 -0500
Subject: [TUHS] Status of, and licensing of the so called "Ancient UNIX" products
Message-ID: <002401c2ddd8$af4e1680$38c5580c@who5>

Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I know I asked this question early on, and I remember, and have the
original answer filed someplace.... But that was about a year ago.
Since then I had heard a rumor that the current Copyright Owner of the
"Ancient UNIX" products had in fact re-released the products under the
exact same license that both Minix, and BSD use.

 In fact they could called a freely releasable product. Can someone on
this list confirm this? On a different list, for a different emulator,
to which that I belong, we there, are having a discussion regarding
the status of these products. I agreed with a correspondent that the
BSD ones, such as 2.11, and 2.9 were in fact freely available, pending
a response that is. 

I am suggesting there, that someone should investigate porting either
V5, or V6, or even V7 to that platform. And someone naturally is
making that complaint. Someone else is also claiming that Amdahl did
just that, and sold it under the name UTS. But as you might guess, it
is not freely available.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon at worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke."  Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )






From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Thu Feb 27 07:49:58 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:49:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] AT&T Package Design (fwd)
Message-ID: <200302262149.h1QLnwb98263@minnie.tuhs.org>

----- Forwarded message from Lange, David -----

From: "Lange, David" <Extern.David.Lange at gedas.com>
Subject: AT&T Package Design
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:25:18 -0500

Just wondering who actually designed the AT&T UNIX package utility. I have
to admit the documentation of this utility is rather sparse in term of
examples of scripting problems and handling the I/O. Did internal AT&T
documentation have any more information or did it merely consist of the
source? I'm interested in creating patches and dependencies between
packages. Any information or insight would be welcome.

Regards.
	D. Lange
----- End of forwarded message from Lange, David -----


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Thu Feb 27 07:58:17 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:58:17 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Festoon
In-Reply-To: <73468058224c3fd7d82f1bb84521dbb9@plan9.bell-labs.com> from Dennis
 Ritchie at "Feb 26, 2003 00:46:31 am"
Message-ID: <200302262158.h1QLwHu98408@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Dennis Ritchie:
> I'll make the Festoon source available to scholars if there's interest.
> It even compiles on Plan 9 (with ape).
> 	Dennis

Dennis has passed the source to me with permission to include it in the
Unix Archive. It's now there at Applications/Festoon, e.g
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Applications/Festoon/
until the other mirrors pick it up.

	Warren


From grog at lemis.com  Thu Feb 27 08:44:58 2003
From: grog at lemis.com (Greg 'groggy' Lehey)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:14:58 +1030
Subject: [TUHS] Status of, and licensing of the so called "Ancient UNIX" products
In-Reply-To: <002401c2ddd8$af4e1680$38c5580c@who5>
References: <002401c2ddd8$af4e1680$38c5580c@who5>
Message-ID: <20030226224458.GN66520@wantadilla.lemis.com>

On Wednesday, 26 February 2003 at 15:50:06 -0500, Gregg C Levine wrote:
> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> I know I asked this question early on, and I remember, and have the
> original answer filed someplace.... But that was about a year ago.
> Since then I had heard a rumor that the current Copyright Owner of the
> "Ancient UNIX" products had in fact re-released the products under the
> exact same license that both Minix, and BSD use.

That's not possible.  The licenses aren't the same.

> In fact they could called a freely releasable product. Can someone
> on this list confirm this?

Yes.  It went around on this list at the time.  I'll attach the
message again below.

Greg
--
Finger grog at lemis.com for PGP public key
See complete headers for address and phone numbers
Please note: we block mail from major spammers, notably yahoo.com.
See http://www.lemis.com/yahoospam.html for further details.
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From arnold at skeeve.com  Thu Feb 27 22:06:17 2003
From: arnold at skeeve.com (Aharon Robbins)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:06:17 +0200
Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon
Message-ID: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain>

Hi All.

The following diff is necessary to use GCC on a linux system.
(Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is? Beats me.)

Warren, you might want to fix that last line in the archive version
of the file.

Arnold
----------------
*** fest.c.dist	Wed Feb 26 23:51:49 2003
--- fest.c	Thu Feb 27 14:02:55 2003
***************
*** 1223,1229 ****
  static char    *conjlist[] = {"and", "but", "yet", "and", "and"};
  
  X 
! conj(env)
  	E               env;
  {
  	X               v = getxx();
--- 1223,1229 ----
  static char    *conjlist[] = {"and", "but", "yet", "and", "and"};
  
  X 
! conjugate(env)
  	E               env;
  {
  	X               v = getxx();
***************
*** 1306,1312 ****
  	} else if (prob(2 * T)) {
  		v->list.x[i++] = turgid(env);
  		v->list.x[i++] = comma(env);
! 		v->list.x[i++] = conj(env);
  		v->list.x[i++] = sent(env);
  	} else if (prob(1.5 * T)) {
  		v->list.x[i++] = lconjsub(env);
--- 1306,1312 ----
  	} else if (prob(2 * T)) {
  		v->list.x[i++] = turgid(env);
  		v->list.x[i++] = comma(env);
! 		v->list.x[i++] = conjugate(env);
  		v->list.x[i++] = sent(env);
  	} else if (prob(1.5 * T)) {
  		v->list.x[i++] = lconjsub(env);
***************
*** 1327,1333 ****
  		if (eqn && prob(.5)) {
  			v->list.x[i++] = equation(env);
  			v->list.x[i++] = comma(env);
! 			v->list.x[i++] = conj(env);
  		}
  		v->list.x[i++] = sent(env);
  	} else
--- 1327,1333 ----
  		if (eqn && prob(.5)) {
  			v->list.x[i++] = equation(env);
  			v->list.x[i++] = comma(env);
! 			v->list.x[i++] = conjugate(env);
  		}
  		v->list.x[i++] = sent(env);
  	} else
***************
*** 1644,1647 ****
  	label[j++] = '"'; label[j] = '\0';
  	return(label);
  }
- /GO.SYSIN DD fest.c
\ No newline at end of file
--- 1644,1646 ----


From lars at nocrew.org  Thu Feb 27 22:39:05 2003
From: lars at nocrew.org (Lars Brinkhoff)
Date: 27 Feb 2003 13:39:05 +0100
Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon
In-Reply-To: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <8565r5dhjq.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>

Aharon Robbins <arnold at skeeve.com> writes:
> Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is?

C99 complex conjugation.

-- 
Lars Brinkhoff,         Services for Unix, Linux, GCC, PDP-10, HTTP
Brinkhoff Consulting    http://www.brinkhoff.se/


From wtoomey at staff.bond.edu.au  Fri Feb 28 13:58:38 2003
From: wtoomey at staff.bond.edu.au (wtoomey at staff.bond.edu.au)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:58:38 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] Re: Fw: A milestone from Australian computing history
In-Reply-To: <01ea01c2ded9$bc807580$bdc38490@nsw.bigpond.net.au>
Message-ID: <0HB0004OH31TMZ@staff.bond.edu.au>

In article by Max Burnet:
> From: Bob Supnik <bsupnik at earthlink.net>
> To: Max Burnet <mburnet at bigpond.net.au>
> > I've just finished resurrecting Richard Miller's Wollongong port of UNIX
> V6
> > to the Interdata 7/32 (1976-77) - the first UNIX port in history.  I hope
> > to release a kit over the weekend.
> >
> > If you have Warren Toomey's mail address, over at PUPS, will you please
> > forward this on to him as well?
> >
> > All the best to you and yours,
> >
> > /Bob

Congratulations Bob!!

	Warren


From peterjeremy at optushome.com.au  Fri Feb 28 20:46:57 2003
From: peterjeremy at optushome.com.au (Peter Jeremy)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:46:57 +1100
Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon
In-Reply-To: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain>
References: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20030228104657.GK53497@cirb503493.alcatel.com.au>

On Thu, Feb 27, 2003 at 02:06:17PM +0200, Aharon Robbins wrote:
>The following diff is necessary to use GCC on a linux system.
>(Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is? Beats me.)

Probably complex conjugate:  conj(a+ib) == a-ib

Peter


From wkt at minnie.tuhs.org  Fri Feb 28 09:22:49 2003
From: wkt at minnie.tuhs.org (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:22:49 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [TUHS] compiling festoon
In-Reply-To: <200302271206.h1RC6HSQ001634@localhost.localdomain> from Aharon
 Robbins at "Feb 27, 2003 02:06:17 pm"
Message-ID: <200302272322.h1RNMop13970@minnie.tuhs.org>

In article by Aharon Robbins:
> Hi All.
> 
> The following diff is necessary to use GCC on a linux system.
> (Anyone know what gcc's builtin `conj' function is? Beats me.)
> 
> Warren, you might want to fix that last line in the archive version
> of the file.

Um, it compiles fine for me on FreeBSD using gcc version 2.95.3,
so I'd say that it's a Linux library. I'll put your suggestion
into the README.

	Warren


