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From: "Digest" <deadmail>
To: "OS/2GenAu Digest" <deadmail>
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 01:00:00 +1000 (EDT)
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Subject:   No. 99
Message-ID: <200106250100.000029G6atmail.>

Date:- 25 June 2001

1================================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 05:21:21 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Ians early xmas

Hi Ed

>A minor (here comes the Pedantic Ed) change I'd suggest the Intel
>processors
>were 1.2 GHz, not Gb (or have they a rather *L A R G E*  cache size
>now?).

Umm, yes, 1.2 GHz :-)

>I'd be interested in an OS/2 vs Linux shoot-off on performance - the
>earlier
>versions of Linux were slimline and quick but it seems that some
>versions 
>of Linux now set higher requirements for minimum hrdware .....

Both the Linux and OS/2 command line versions are very evenly
matched re preformance, the Linux with GUI though is no match
for OS/2 with GUI.....

The base OS/2 still runs ok (just), after its booted, on a PS/2 386DX25,
with Maths co-processor. Just dont even think about apps like star office
though !
And make sure IBM Works is not loaded, all that extra rubbish
in the ini files makes it very sluggish, and the secret to making
it run ok, is to now what to remove from the config.sys file,
and which files to transfer over to a 120Mb ESDI Harddisk, ie,
no CDROM.

I think OS/2 v3 is best for 386's, keep OS/2 v4 FP12 for 486's,
and OS/2 v4+FP15 for P100's and up.

>Perhaps Greg could incorporate comparison reports like this into the
>os2 dot org dot au

I'd better do some benchmarking !

Cheers
Ian B Manners

2=============================================

From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" <gnatsmart-road dot com dot au>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:16:25 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM

A question that I may have asked before....

My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM and the WS have 65MG RAM.  the server is 
a file and print server with network applications and data residing on the server, 
and each WS loads

1	Word Processing  (Describe!1 Remember that great software!)
2	A DOS accounting/billing programme
3	Faxing (network)
4	Netscape  (runs from each WS)
5	An email programme

 would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM  (128) or is the Server 
RAM 'more important'??

Graham Norton FRACP
Neurologist

Smart Road Specialist Centre
Modbury SA 5092

61 8 8265 4022  (Voice)
61 8 8386 1795 (Fax)
gnatsmart-road dot com dot au

3=============================================

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:57:19 
From: Voytek Eymont <voytekatsbt dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Ians early xmas

** Reply to note from "Ian Manners" <deadmail> Sun, 24 Jun 2001 05:21:21 +1000 (EST)


> Both the Linux and OS/2 command line versions are very evenly 
> matched re preformance, the Linux with GUI though is no match 
> for OS/2 with GUI..... 

that's precisely my expereience

  
> I think OS/2 v3 is best for 386's, keep OS/2 v4 FP12 for 486's, 
> and OS/2 v4+FP15 for P100's and up. 


not that I have any 386s in use, though, I'd say, amount of RAM would have a
bit to say, as well.

my general recomendattions used to be: min. 16 MB for WarpC, min. 20MB 
Warp4

I'd think.... 386 with lotsa RAM might be OK for Warp4..?

as for 486 (and, that was the reason for my earlier Q that Ed attempted to
answer by quoting a readme specs): I've just installed W451 CP1 on a 486
16MB RAM, it installed with no hickups, and, so far, appears perfectly
happy, and, of acceptable performance.

(strangeley, a French Warp4 failed to install on same h/w with 'not enough
memory', perhaps French edition needs more RAM..?)

so, subject to some additional testing, I'd say W451 CP1 might be OK on 486

Voytek Eymont
SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd
http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/
phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 

4=============================================

From: "Paul Smedley" <psmedle1atbigpond dot net dot au>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:23:02 +1100
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM

Graham,
I certainly found on my workstations that performance increased greatly in going from 
64mb to 128mb.  Even if you applications are resident on the server, the WS still needs 
enough available RAM to load the applications, and things such as Netscape are 
quite RAM hungry.

An indication that more RAM will help can be had from checking out the size of your 
swapper.dat and seeing if it ever grows from it's default size.  Of course, depending on 
the age of your WS's, adding more ram may prove expensive, unless they all use 
SDRAM which is incredibly cheap now at ~$55 per 128mb, hence both my machines 
now have 256mb :)

Regards,

Paul.

On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 11:16:25 +1100, Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist wrote:

>A question that I may have asked before....
>
>My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM and the WS have 65MG RAM.  the server is 
>a file and print server with network applications and data residing on the server, 
>and each WS loads
>
>1	Word Processing  (Describe!1 Remember that great software!)
>2	A DOS accounting/billing programme
>3	Faxing (network)
>4	Netscape  (runs from each WS)
>5	An email programme
>
> would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM  (128) or is the Server 
>RAM 'more important'??
>
>Graham Norton FRACP
>Neurologist
>
>Smart Road Specialist Centre
>Modbury SA 5092
>
>61 8 8265 4022  (Voice)
>61 8 8386 1795 (Fax)
>gnatsmart-road dot com dot au

5=============================================

From: mfarnhamatdingoblue dot net dot au
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:02:22 +1100
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Ians early xmas

In <200106240521.00002CBHatmail.>, on 06/24/01 
   at 05:21 AM, "Ian Manners" <deadmail> said:

CUT

>The base OS/2 still runs ok (just), after its booted, on a PS/2 386DX25,
>with Maths co-processor. Just dont even think about apps like star office
>though !
>And make sure IBM Works is not loaded, all that extra rubbish in the ini
>files makes it very sluggish, and the secret to making it run ok, is to
>now what to remove from the config.sys file, and which files to transfer
>over to a 120Mb ESDI Harddisk, ie, no CDROM.

Ahh the memories!

My first computer was a 386dx33 with 4mb and a 120md Conner HD on which I
ran 2.11. This was sufficient for most things, even running Borland
Paradox DB in win-os2 (though you had time to fetch water and boil a cuppa
waiting for it to load). When I was able to afford another 4mb (I was a
poor starving student at the time) the price was near to $100 Paradox
would load in around 10secs.

Mark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
mfarnhamatdingoblue dot net dot au
Sunday, June 24, 2001 - 01:02 PM
-----------
"Lord, Grant me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to hide the bodies
of the people I had to kill because they pissed me off." -----------
Mark Farnham
Mackay, Queensland, Australia.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

6=============================================

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 01 12:46:24 +1000
From: "Simon Coulter" <shcatflybynight dot com dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM

=8C
Hello Graham,

You wrote:
>My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM ...

It's not like a terminal server so the applications run on the WS which =

implies that WS RAM would help.  However, 128MB is probably fine for all =

you're running.  You could check the size of the swapper while all the =

applications are active which will give you an idea of whether more RAM i=
s =

needed.  I have 128MB in my desktop and 192MB in my Thinkpad and that's =

enough for Netscape, SmartSuite, QuickBooks, Peer, e-mail, DB/2, VAJ, and=
 =

sundry other stuff all active at the same time -- although I do have quit=
e =

a large swap file :)

I have just purchased an X220 (864542X) with 256MB RAM and both WSeB and =

Merlin CP trap during installation (2nd diskette part of CD) while trying=
 =

to load the ibmint13.i13 driver.  Since you have your server installed ca=
n =

you tell me what BIOS level and revision you are running?  (The TUExxxxAU=
S =

value and the revision.)  If you don't know the values you can get them =

from the BIOS setup, which means a reboot so don't bother if it's not =

convenient.

I'll be 'phoning IBM support on Monday about this but that information ma=
y =

help diagnose the problem.  I might as well make use of the 90 day OS =

installation support :)

The xSeries web site has all the information one could want about =

installing Windoze, Linux, and even Netware, but sod all about OS/2 other=
 =

than it is certified for the hardware.  Why am I not surprised ...

Regards,
Simon Coulter.

=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=
=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=
=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB
=AB=BB FlyByNight Software         AS/400 Technical Specialists       =AB=
=BB
=AB=BB Eclipse the competition - run your business on an IBM AS/400.  =AB=
=BB
=AB=BB                                                                =AB=
=BB
=AB=BB Phone: +61 3 9419 0175   Mobile: +61 0411 091 400        /"\   =AB=
=BB
=AB=BB Fax:   +61 3 9419 0175   mailto: shcatflybynight dot com dot au   \ /   =AB=
=BB
=AB=BB                                                           X    =AB=
=BB
=AB=BB               ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail  / \   =AB=
=BB
=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=
=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=
=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=AB=BB=

7=============================================

From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" <gnatsmart-road dot com dot au>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:54:19 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM

Simon

You will find IBM in Australia very 'unsupportive'!!  At least I did but=
 there are one of 
two people that can help and are on side and if you go to the X220  IBM =
support 
page and download the Adeptec SCSI drivers for WSEB   you will find the =
file 
contains explicit  directions on creating the install disks!!  YOu cant =
use the CD 
Installation discs!!

I have however imported the ServerGuide V5.0.5  CD ROM which does suppor=
t the 
CD install... failing that I can post or email you the  installation flo=
ppies!!


On Sun, 24 Jun 01 12:46:24 +1000, Simon Coulter wrote:

> 
>Hello Graham,
>
>You wrote:
>>My server IBM X220 has 128MG RAM ...
>
>It's not like a terminal server so the applications run on the WS which=
 
>implies that WS RAM would help.  However, 128MB is probably fine for al=
l 
>you're running.  You could check the size of the swapper while all the =

>applications are active which will give you an idea of whether more RAM=
 is 
>needed.  I have 128MB in my desktop and 192MB in my Thinkpad and that's=
 
>enough for Netscape, SmartSuite, QuickBooks, Peer, e-mail, DB/2, VAJ, a=
nd 
>sundry other stuff all active at the same time -- although I do have qu=
ite 
>a large swap file :)
>
>I have just purchased an X220 (864542X) with 256MB RAM and both WSeB an=
d 
>Merlin CP trap during installation (2nd diskette part of CD) while tryi=
ng 
>to load the ibmint13.i13 driver.  Since you have your server installed =
can 
>you tell me what BIOS level and revision you are running?  (The TUExxxx=
AUS 
>value and the revision.)  If you don't know the values you can get them=
 
>from the BIOS setup, which means a reboot so don't bother if it's not 
>convenient.
>
>I'll be 'phoning IBM support on Monday about this but that information =
may 
>help diagnose the problem.  I might as well make use of the 90 day OS 
>installation support :)
>
>The xSeries web site has all the information one could want about 
>installing Windoze, Linux, and even Netware, but sod all about OS/2 oth=
er 
>than it is certified for the hardware.  Why am I not surprised ...
>
>Regards,
>Simon Coulter.
>
>=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=
=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=
=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF
>=AE=AF FlyByNight Software         AS/400 Technical Specialists       =AE=
=AF
>=AE=AF Eclipse the competition - run your business on an IBM AS/400.  =AE=
=AF
>=AE=AF                                                                =AE=
=AF
>=AE=AF Phone: +61 3 9419 0175   Mobile: +61 0411 091 400        /"\   =AE=
=AF
>=AE=AF Fax:   +61 3 9419 0175   mailto: shcatflybynight dot com dot au   \ /   =AE=
=AF
>=AE=AF                                                           X    =AE=
=AF
>=AE=AF               ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail  / \   =AE=
=AF
>=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=
=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=
=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF=AE=AF
>*----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------*
>                  Archive Access.     U To Subscribe/Unsubscribe please=
 go to 
http://www.os2site.com/list/
>

Graham Norton
President
OS2 Users Group SA

8=============================================

From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" <gnatsmart-road dot com dot au>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:57:34 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical

Hi All


Well

using  two different NIC card...  (ADSL Firewall PC )

1	Accton  10/100 Cheetah
2	Surecom  10/100 PCI card

has cured the problem and now I am able to see both cards and as well  TCPIP 
runs on the machine although the next hurdle is to configure the setup as well as 
Injoy Firewall!!

will keep you all posted!!  

Graham Norton FRACP
Neurologist

Smart Road Specialist Centre
Modbury SA 5092

61 8 8265 4022  (Voice)
61 8 8386 1795 (Fax)
gnatsmart-road dot com dot au

9=============================================

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:49:57 +1000
From: Ed Durrant <edurrantatbigpond dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM

The most key factor here is whether the PCs are swapping
to disk when they run their applications. There are various
freeware monitoring programs that can show you this or 
simply set the swapper settings in config.sys back to the
default 2048 2048, run the WS for a ay and then look and 
see how big the swapper.dat is. If it hasn't increased in
size the PC is not swapping and adding memory is only going
to give a very limited improvement. If the swapper.dat is
30MB or more, then add extra memory to the WS. Extra 
memory can never harm. If your looking for a way to 
improve PC performance though, I'd suggest you look 
at changing the HDs out. They're probably 5400 RPM 
models and you WILL notice an improvement going to
7200RPM models. If you are running 66 or 100 MHz ATA
EIDE interface you could also consider going to 10,000 RPM
(but these drives are still pretty expensive). If you have 
money to burn, there's also 15,000 RPM models now !

Cheers/2

Ed.
 

Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist wrote:
> 
>  would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM  (128) or is the Server
> RAM 'more important'??

10=============================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 17:43:32 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical

Hi Graham

>using  two different NIC card...  (ADSL Firewall PC )

Installing two identical cards requires some manual editing
of the protocol.ini file, and its always easier to just use
two different cards (two different chipsets) that require
two different drivers.

>has cured the problem and now I am able to see both cards and as well  TCPIP 
>runs on the machine although the next hurdle is to configure the setup as well as 
>Injoy Firewall!!

I can send you basic firerule and filter files if you would like some, the
main thing I need to know, is if you are using any servers internally
for external use, which I assume your not.

I need to catch up on previous emails sent to the list so if your've
already given an outline, I'll get it from here. 

Re the RAM issue, yes, put more RAM in your client PC rather
than your server, what your server has should be more than
enough.

With the InJoy Firewall, running the text interface uses up a lot
less CPU.

Cheers
Ian B Manners

11=============================================

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 18:30:28 +1000
From: Ed Durrant <edurrantatbigpond dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical

Just to agree with Ian, don't run the Firewall GUI, not only
does it use CPU, its simply to complicated to look at - the
commandline version sits there and simply runs.

To you Ian - I didn't think Graham could run an Internet
server (web or mail) from behind the firewall as he is using
NAT. I thought he'd have to run it on the firewall PC, have
 I got this wrong ?

Cheers/2

Ed.

Ian Manners wrote:
> 
> Hi Graham
> 
> 
> I can send you basic firerule and filter files if you would like some, the
> main thing I need to know, is if you are using any servers internally
> for external use, which I assume your not.

12=============================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 19:03:08 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical

Hi Ed

>To you Ian - I didn't think Graham could run an Internet
>server (web or mail) from behind the firewall as he is using
>NAT. I thought he'd have to run it on the firewall PC, have
> I got this wrong ?

Graham can :-)

I use Injoy Firewall for all my servers, NATed, ie just place
portmapping rules so that specific IP's are mapped to internal
IP's, and only allowing select ports through to these IP's.

All other traffic from inside the firewall looks like it comes from
210.8.201.190,

All servers inside (including os2 dot org dot au), are mapped from there
respective internal IP's to there respective internal IP's, the
firewall itself only has InJoy Firewall, a time server,
and the RC5DES proxy on it.

This means that I can access all servers inside using the
local LAN, with netbuei and netbios cut off from the
outside world completely. Makes backing up, and working
on the servers a lot more secure, as well as easier, its
bloody freezing down in the bomb shelter !

Cheers
Ian B Manners

13=============================================

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 19:52:15 +1000
From: Ed Durrant <edurrantatbigpond dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical

Should this have said their respective internal to external .....

Apart from that - thanks for the Tip. Hmm, looks like a major
network re-design going to happen in the Durrant LAN....

Cheers/2

Ed.

> All servers inside (including os2 dot org dot au), are mapped from there
> respective internal IP's to there respective internal IP's, the
> firewall itself only has InJoy Firewall, a time server,
> and the RC5DES proxy on it.

14=============================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:03:03 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical

Hi Ed

>Should this have said their respective internal to external .....

Oops, saying that a lot today :-)

>Apart from that - thanks for the Tip. Hmm, looks like a major
>network re-design going to happen in the Durrant LAN....

I you or anyone else is interested, I'll post my portmapping
rules, also note that any internal servers that are NATed require
Alias external IP's on the external firewall LAN interface, otherwise
people in the outside world cant find the external IP's :-)

I can put all this in a text file on one of the sites.

Cheers
Ian B Manners

15=============================================

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 20:13:09 +1000
From: Ed Durrant <edurrantatbigpond dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] 2 NIC cards Identical

This is what I was wondering - how could someone extrnal know
the correct address/port to get to the internal server. To the external
(internet) systems they will only use a name or an IP address. 

Perhaps if you could put something up on one of the sites it may make 
it clearer. Also what happens if your connection is DHCP - does DYNDNS
still work through a firewall ??

Cheers/2

Ed.

Ian Manners wrote:
> 
> Hi Ed
> 
> >Should this have said their respective internal to external .....
> 
> Oops, saying that a lot today :-)
> 
> >Apart from that - thanks for the Tip. Hmm, looks like a major
> >network re-design going to happen in the Durrant LAN....
> 
> I you or anyone else is interested, I'll post my portmapping
> rules, also note that any internal servers that are NATed require
> Alias external IP's on the external firewall LAN interface, otherwise
> people in the outside world cant find the external IP's :-)
> 
> I can put all this in a text file on one of the sites.
> 
> Cheers
> Ian B Manners

16=============================================

From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" <gnatsmart-road dot com dot au>
Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2001 21:11:54 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM

Ed

as I have almost all the applications on the server and  *all* the data files,  the only 
software on each WS in Netscape and the WS /client of PMFax  for OS2.... I am not 
sure how spending money on faster HD would help? As it is they are certainly old ( 
6 years or so and 1.2G)  yet there is enough space for me to have each WS with
C Drive  - OS2 
D Drive - maintenance partition
E Drive -  Data 

and the data partition is still about 700 MG and only about  30% used!!

I routinely set the swapper dat to 6159  61590

I think that the cost is such that I can buy RAM. We did upgrade the mother boards 
and CPU just before the year 2000.



On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 15:49:57 +1000, Ed Durrant wrote:

>The most key factor here is whether the PCs are swapping
>to disk when they run their applications. There are various
>freeware monitoring programs that can show you this or 
>simply set the swapper settings in config.sys back to the
>default 2048 2048, run the WS for a ay and then look and 
>see how big the swapper.dat is. If it hasn't increased in
>size the PC is not swapping and adding memory is only going
>to give a very limited improvement. If the swapper.dat is
>30MB or more, then add extra memory to the WS. Extra 
>memory can never harm. If your looking for a way to 
>improve PC performance though, I'd suggest you look 
>at changing the HDs out. They're probably 5400 RPM 
>models and you WILL notice an improvement going to
>7200RPM models. If you are running 66 or 100 MHz ATA
>EIDE interface you could also consider going to 10,000 RPM
>(but these drives are still pretty expensive). If you have 
>money to burn, there's also 15,000 RPM models now !
>
>Cheers/2
>
>Ed.
> 
>
>Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist wrote:
>> 
>>  would the performance improve if I increased the WS RAM  (128) or is the 
Server
>> RAM 'more important'??

Graham Norton FRACP
Neurologist

Smart Road Specialist Centre
Modbury SA 5092

61 8 8265 4022  (Voice)
61 8 8386 1795 (Fax)
gnatsmart-road dot com dot au
