From: Digest <deadmail>
To: "OS/2GenAu Digest"<deadmail>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:01:06 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600
Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 429
Reply-To: <deadmail>
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**************************************************
Wednesday 21 August 2002
 Number  429
**************************************************

Subjects for today
 
1  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au
2  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : nickl at arach dot net dot au
3  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : John Angelico" <talldad at kepl dot com dot au>
4  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : Graham Norton" <gn at smart-road dot com dot au>
5  [os2genau] SW: More Fixes from Microsoft : Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
6  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : Ian Manners" <deadmail>
7  Re: [os2genau] ot: IDE setup; co-exist OS/2 and W2k; W2K boot disk ? : Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
8  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : Ian Manners" <deadmail>
9  [os2genau] CD copying : Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
10  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : Paul Smedley" <paul at smedley.info>
11  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : Ian Manners" <deadmail>
12  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems : Alan Duval" <amoht at ozemail dot com dot au>

**= Email   1 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:51:52 +1030
From:  brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems


Hi all.
I can't agree more with Ed's suggestion to report these "liars" to the ACC.
For starters Windows 9x is not even an operating system, its a DOS shell.
Bye

-----------------------------------------
Brian Butler
System Administrator
brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au


                                                                                                                                 
                      Ed Durrant                                                                                                 
                      <edurrant at bigpond        To:       os2genau at os2 dot org dot au                                                     
                       dot net dot au>                 cc:                                                                               
                                               Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems                                   
                      20/08/2002 06:47                                                                                           
                      PM                                                                                                         
                      Please respond to                                                                                          
                      os2genau                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                 




Why not give the people at the ACCC a call or e-mail. If this company
actualy
advertises "software available for most operating systems" and given that
Microsoft
themselves portray the various versions of Windoze as different generations
of, at the
most, two operating systems, then I would say they ARE contravening the
trade
descriptions act and the office of fair trading (who from what one person
at the ACCC
told me, is the main area that the ACCC is concerned with) should take
action against
the company. At the least they should be required to correct their
mis-leading and
inaccurate advertising and possibly add an apology to the revised version.
They may
also be up for a fine.

Irrespective of our feelings for any particular product, the law is very
clear about
mis-representation in advertising.

Cheers/2

Ed.

Ian Manners wrote:

> Hi
>
> Rang up a share trading company today, and asked about
> the access software they provide which they state is "For most
> operating systems"......
>
> Hi, Will this software run under OS/2 ?
>
> >No
>
> Will it run under Mac OS9 or OSX ?
>
> >No
>
> How about Unix or Linux
>
> >Well, um, if you can get a Windows emulator then ...
>
> So it doesnt actually run under most operating systems ?
>
> >Well, it does, it runs under Windows98, Windows 2000 and
> >WindowsXP.
>
> ok, so the answer is no, do you provide any other, older versions
> of your software, or a web interface ?
>
> >Yes, we do provide a members service via the web, and that
> >should work with most operating systems.
>
> ok, so its just a secure HTTP interface ?
>
> >Yes, its a password protected area but you need to download
> >some software to access the features.
>
> What is the software, a JAVA module ?
>
> >No, its a Microsoft Visual .NET plugin for Internet Explorer.
>
> ok, so what your telling me is that I still require a flavour of
> Windows ?
>
> >Umm, I guess so.
>
> Does it support Netscape ?
>
> >No, as we adhere to a standard, so you do need Internet Explorer.
>
> ok, bye.
>
> clunk.
> Sigh......
>
> Cheers
> Ian B Manners
>
> "Worry.  This will hurt." -- Unfriendly Dentist
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>  


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 






----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   2 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:29:48 +0900
From:  nickl at arach dot net dot au
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

Hi All.

Can't be sure, down the track, if I did the right thing, but....

About  2 years ago, got a brochure in the mail from a certain BIG and
starry bank offering their Internet Service, with the clause: "you can
connect onto ***** internet banking with any computer connected to the
internet..."

Well, I tried, their Java software came down a treat (but in the usual
Windows fashion, didn't say what it was doing..) then connected to the
main interface, wherapon a peremptory note told me to "contact the bank"
<play theme from "DragNet">

Well, I did, and the operator said my accounts were in  order, and passed
me through to Internet Banking. They kindly cleared my cache, then asked
me to look for the "start" button. They insisted I must have one. When I
gave them a tour of my desktop, they finally asked "What OS are you
using?" When I replied Warp 4 FP 15, they said they don't support that and
hung up in my ear.

I put my complaint in writing to the bank. The "Head Of Internet"
responded by saying that "OS/2 is not the way fo the future".  I then
scanned the brochure and sent it to the Banking Ombudsman.

After 6 months of indecision, the Banking Ombudsman handballed it to the
ACCC, who after careful explanation on my part, informed me that
"......they had written to the bank explaining their obligations to the
Trade Practices Act....." At that point, I noticed that the bank removed
the offending brochure from their stands and replaced it with "Windows 9x
etc... only".

I only hopde that, in so doing, I haven't made life more difficult for
you/us. If so, then I apologise, but I believe it's something that had to
be done.

Regards

NICK

In <OF39C384AA.EDF4E47E-ON69256C1C.000CCEDB at kdfisher dot com dot au>, on 08/21/02 
   at 12:51 PM, brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au said:


>Hi all.
>I can't agree more with Ed's suggestion to report these "liars" to the
>ACC. For starters Windows 9x is not even an operating system, its a DOS
>shell. Bye

>-----------------------------------------
>Brian Butler
>System Administrator
>brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au


>                                                                                                                                 
>                      Ed Durrant                                                                                                

>                      <edurrant at bigpond        To:      
>os2genau at os2 dot org dot au                                                     
>                       dot net dot au>                 cc:                                                                              

>                                               Subject:  Re: [os2genau]
>Most operating systems                                   
>                      20/08/2002 06:47                                                                                          

>                      PM                                                                                                        

>                      Please respond to                                                                                         

>                      os2genau                                                                                                  

>                                                                                                                                 
>                                                                                                                                 




>Why not give the people at the ACCC a call or e-mail. If this company
>actualy
>advertises "software available for most operating systems" and given that
>Microsoft
>themselves portray the various versions of Windoze as different
>generations of, at the
>most, two operating systems, then I would say they ARE contravening the
>trade
>descriptions act and the office of fair trading (who from what one person
>at the ACCC
>told me, is the main area that the ACCC is concerned with) should take
>action against
>the company. At the least they should be required to correct their
>mis-leading and
>inaccurate advertising and possibly add an apology to the revised
>version. They may
>also be up for a fine.

>Irrespective of our feelings for any particular product, the law is very
>clear about
>mis-representation in advertising.

>Cheers/2

>Ed.

>Ian Manners wrote:

>> Hi
>>
>> Rang up a share trading company today, and asked about
>> the access software they provide which they state is "For most
>> operating systems"......
>>
>> Hi, Will this software run under OS/2 ?
>>
>> >No
>>
>> Will it run under Mac OS9 or OSX ?
>>
>> >No
>>
>> How about Unix or Linux
>>
>> >Well, um, if you can get a Windows emulator then ...
>>
>> So it doesnt actually run under most operating systems ?
>>
>> >Well, it does, it runs under Windows98, Windows 2000 and
>> >WindowsXP.
>>
>> ok, so the answer is no, do you provide any other, older versions
>> of your software, or a web interface ?
>>
>> >Yes, we do provide a members service via the web, and that
>> >should work with most operating systems.
>>
>> ok, so its just a secure HTTP interface ?
>>
>> >Yes, its a password protected area but you need to download
>> >some software to access the features.
>>
>> What is the software, a JAVA module ?
>>
>> >No, its a Microsoft Visual .NET plugin for Internet Explorer.
>>
>> ok, so what your telling me is that I still require a flavour of
>> Windows ?
>>
>> >Umm, I guess so.
>>
>> Does it support Netscape ?
>>
>> >No, as we adhere to a standard, so you do need Internet Explorer.
>>
>> ok, bye.
>>
>> clunk.
>> Sigh......
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ian B Manners
>>
>> "Worry.  This will hurt." -- Unfriendly Dentist
>>


>>  
>



> 







> 



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------
nickl at arach dot net dot au
-----------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   3 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:01:27 +1000 (EST)
From:  "John Angelico" <talldad at kepl dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:29:48 +0900, nickl at arach dot net dot au wrote:

>Hi All.
>
>Can't be sure, down the track, if I did the right thing, but....

[US accent] You done RAGHT, man!!
[Oz accent] Onya, mate!!

That's the way to do it.

I believe Ian Manners was testing their revised Internet Banking which no
longer uses MS-Java, but only Javascript and secure sockets.

He and I (and presumably others) are basically happy customers of their
"new" Internet Banking system, and I have been hammering away at their BNZ
affiliate in Kiwi-land to do the same.

Now I have a BNZ I'net link but I can't get in - practical problem with
passwords, rather than Wintendo-specific software...

Last of the crumbling edifices is the infamous ATO aka "Carmody's Cowboys"
which insists on Wintendo-Java for GST lodgements.

We will win - eventually.

 

Best regards
John Angelico
OS/2 SIG
talldad at melbpc dot org dot au or talldad at kepl dot com dot au
--------------------------------------------

PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
.... Triumphalist! Of course - victory is certain...<g>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   4 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:33:24 +1100 (EDT)
From:  "Graham Norton" <gn at smart-road dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

Hello John

I suspect that you are on the same bank as I ?   I cant seem to get the Java plug in  to scroll up or down on a selected account in Warpzilla   but  I can with Netscape 4.6   
using latest IBM Software Choice Javava runtime... can you comment about this ?



On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:01:27 +1000 (EST), John Angelico wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:29:48 +0900, nickl at arach dot net dot au wrote:
>
>>Hi All.
>>
>>Can't be sure, down the track, if I did the right thing, but....
>
>[US accent] You done RAGHT, man!!
>[Oz accent] Onya, mate!!
>
>That's the way to do it.
>
>I believe Ian Manners was testing their revised Internet Banking which no
>longer uses MS-Java, but only Javascript and secure sockets.
>
>He and I (and presumably others) are basically happy customers of their
>"new" Internet Banking system, and I have been hammering away at their BNZ
>affiliate in Kiwi-land to do the same.
>
>Now I have a BNZ I'net link but I can't get in - practical problem with
>passwords, rather than Wintendo-specific software...
>
>Last of the crumbling edifices is the infamous ATO aka "Carmody's Cowboys"
>which insists on Wintendo-Java for GST lodgements.
>
>We will win - eventually.
>
> 
>
>Best regards
>John Angelico
>OS/2 SIG
>talldad at melbpc dot org dot au or talldad at kepl dot com dot au
>--------------------------------------------
>
>PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
>... Triumphalist! Of course - victory is certain...<g>
>

> 

>

Graham Norton
Neurologist

"when I need a hole in the head, I use Windows
when I need a window on the brain, I use OS2!"


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   5 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:39:43 +1000
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
Subject:  [os2genau] SW: More Fixes from Microsoft

For an Operating System that Microsoft find it hard to admit exists,
they're releasing several fixes to their software to work with it lately
........    Here's another:

OS/2 related fixes in Windows 2000 SP3

The previously released Service Pack 3 (SP3) for Windows 2000 contains
fixes
related to OS/2 clients and servers.

First fix is "Windows 2000 Clients Use Multiple Connections When Mapping

Drives to a Single Server", see
http://support.microsoft dot com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q302099

This will hopefully clear up the issue of Win2K clients eating up
all workstation connections to a WSeB server. We will investigate this
further.

Second fix is "Stop 0x00000050 Error Message During Copy from OS/2
Clients",
http://support.microsoft dot com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;q281546

This issue occurs because a request from the client (SMB Move) is not
handled
correctly.

SP3 is available for download at
http://www.microsoft dot com/windows2000/downloads/servicepacks/sp3/default.asp



Cheers/2

Ed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   6 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:37:31 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

Hi Brian

>I can't agree more with Ed's suggestion to report these "liars" to the ACC.
>For starters Windows 9x is not even an operating system, its a DOS shell.

I will but I'll wait until after 3rd September, for a couple of personal
reasons, I will then try again, if nothings changed then I'll let both
the ASX and ACCC know.

Cheers
Ian B Manners


Windows2000 movie: Dead Man Walking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   7 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:49:29 +1000
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] ot: IDE setup; co-exist OS/2 and W2k; W2K boot disk ?

The W2k install (original) may have had SP1 integrated but not SP2. The damage is done
on the first reboot after the base W2k install. Installing SP2 (or now, better SP3 -
see my other post) and then going back and re-installing BM, "ought" to fix everything
......

Ed.

voytek wrote:

> On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 19:43:36 +1000, Ed Durrant wrote:
>
> >Regarding your install problems:
> >   There is a patch to fix this bug in Windows 2000 SP2.
> >
> >  Checkout the "admission" at the following Microsoft page:
> >
> >http://support.microsoft dot com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q265003
>
> thanks, Ian, Ed.
>
> The MS page actually talks about another issue as well, the BM being overwritten;
> though I was protected against that, the dfs tool has a 'make BM w2k proof' tool
>
> hmm, I thought I already did install SP2... perhaps not...
>
> I guess I'll try again...
>

>  


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   8 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 17:45:16 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

Hi all

>I believe Ian Manners was testing their revised Internet Banking which no
>longer uses MS-Java, but only Javascript and secure sockets.

National Australia Bank online, they got caught out with MicroSofts
JAVA, and I dont think they were to happy when they discovered
they had just been locked into Windows only. I was on the pilot test
program for their new Online version, Java free, SSL, it works 100%
now, no errors, and no "you are using an unsupported browser"
messages at login.

I'm still a happy customer of theres.
Westpac Online seems to be ok at present but there customer
service leaves something to be desired. Companies should have
people staffing phones that know what they are talking about, and
who are not want to talk through there backsides.

NAB have been the most accomadating bank I've worked for
so far, even when I was doing all the ATM's and bank equipment
in Kalgoorlie, NAB were the most professional bank, with the
friendliest staff, and best security features during out of hours
work. Even if I did turn up sometimes in shorts and no shoes :)

>Last of the crumbling edifices is the infamous ATO aka "Carmody's Cowboys"
>which insists on Wintendo-Java for GST lodgements.

But John, everyone uses Windows, thats all there is :-|

Cheers
Ian B Manners


Windows: The CP/M of the future!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   9 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:23:16 +1000
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
Subject:  [os2genau] CD copying

Further to our earlier discussions, I have just copied a CD using the CD
1:1  copying program in Audio-CD Creator, using the two stage approach
and it worked. The first stage "Grab Image" creates a binary file and a
table of contents TOC file that it asks you to indicate on the second
part - burn CD.  Obviously you need sufficient temporary space to store
the image but apart from that, it's a pretty painless process.

Cheers/2

Ed.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   10 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:09:19 -0400 (EDT)
From:  "Paul Smedley" <paul at smedley.info>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

FWIW - I can successfully use Commonwealth Bank Netbank and Westpac Online 
Banking in Mozilla, and Commonwealth Bank, Westpac and BankSA in Netscape 4.61 
- no complaints really!

Regards,

Paul.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:01:27 +1000 (EST), John Angelico wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:29:48 +0900, nickl at arach dot net dot au wrote:
>
>>Hi All.
>>
>>Can't be sure, down the track, if I did the right thing, but....
>
>[US accent] You done RAGHT, man!!
>[Oz accent] Onya, mate!!
>
>That's the way to do it.
>
>I believe Ian Manners was testing their revised Internet Banking which no
>longer uses MS-Java, but only Javascript and secure sockets.
>
>He and I (and presumably others) are basically happy customers of their
>"new" Internet Banking system, and I have been hammering away at their BNZ
>affiliate in Kiwi-land to do the same.
>
>Now I have a BNZ I'net link but I can't get in - practical problem with
>passwords, rather than Wintendo-specific software...
>
>Last of the crumbling edifices is the infamous ATO aka "Carmody's Cowboys"
>which insists on Wintendo-Java for GST lodgements.
>
>We will win - eventually.
>
> 
>
>Best regards
>John Angelico
>OS/2 SIG
>talldad at melbpc dot org dot au or talldad at kepl dot com dot au
>--------------------------------------------
>
>PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
>... Triumphalist! Of course - victory is certain...<g>
>

> 

>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   11 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 21:34:01 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

Hi Paul

>FWIW - I can successfully use Commonwealth Bank Netbank and Westpac Online 
>Banking in Mozilla, and Commonwealth Bank, Westpac and BankSA in Netscape 4.61 
>- no complaints really!

My wifes told me all her problems with Wespac broking were finally
fixed about a month ago, she uses a MAC. I think after all the complaints
from the Linux and other communities, most banks have researched
to ensure their software is usable by the maximum numbers of people.

Glad to hear CBA works ok, I'll go see if I can register later, last time
I tried sometime last year was a nightmare.

Cheers
Ian B Manners


At Microsoft, "API" means "Another Proprietary Interface."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   12 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 21 Aug 2002 22:07:04 -0400 (EDT)
From:  "Alan Duval" <amoht at ozemail dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re: [os2genau] Most operating systems

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 20:09:19 -0400 (EDT), Paul Smedley wrote:

>FWIW - I can successfully use Commonwealth Bank Netbank and Westpac Online 
>Banking in Mozilla, and Commonwealth Bank, Westpac and BankSA in Netscape 4.61 
>- no complaints really!
>
>Regards,
>
>Paul.

I am also using Commonwealth Bank Netbank in Mosilla without any problems


Alan

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