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Date:- 28 March 2001

1====================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 04:10:39 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.

Hi Craig

Dongggg

I've had someone bring in an IBM 6482-X6F (Desktop) 486DX4-100 PC,
about two months ago, with a similar type of problem, so tonight,
I took my spare IBM 6492-X6F (Tower) 486DX4-100 PC out of the cupboard
identical MB, same model No., and rev, still with a 540Mb HD with
OS/2 v4 FP13 loaded, a replacement dump file but still using the
clock2.sys file that comes wiht FP13, fired it up, perfect.

So I took the RAM, CPU, and HD out and put it in this problem
PC, sometimes it loads, sometimes not, ratio of 6 failures out of 10
cold boots. Never makes it to a full desktop but the mouse always
works, sometimes it stops loading before the drivers have finished
loading, never at the same driver. Use a can of freeze, and a hair
dryer on the M/B, no difference. Reflashed the BIOS in the 6482,
, replaced the clock2.sys file, replaced the raiser PCB, and swapped
the P/S over out of a known good 6482 I use as a nameserver, same
fault !

Put a Windows 95 240Mb H/D in it, go thought the normal
windows rubbish about HW etc, seems to work fine !!

Put the OS/2 HD in, nope, same problem, sometimes boots ok,
other times it boots, give me the blue desktop screen, them
wammo, mouse works, nothing else. Took two of the SIMMS
out, same thing, swapped the simms still in with the other two,
and check the SIMM sockets with a socket tester, nope,
same thing. Run my trusty old 64xx VP diags disk, passed
with flying colours, including the video test.

Put the OS/2 HD, RAM, CPU etc back in the 6492, works
perfectly.

Guess I wont be using this 6482 as a spare Name Server :-(
And yes, I did change the jumpers, and all leads, and the battery !

All I can think of with this PC, is the RAM timing must be
different just enough to push OS/2 over the edge on this
M/B.

I'll take the M/B out of the case tomorrow, and see if there
is anything physically wrong but somehow I doubt it, between
the IBM BIOS and IBM VP Diag tests, I dont think it leaves
much untested. Checkit also says there is nothing wrong, as
does my old ISA Diag board.

Unfortunetly, I have no way at present to check the crystal
on the M/B.

Just some food for thought :-)

2====================================

From: "Steve Edmonds" <steve71atattglobal dot net>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:12:39 +1200 (NZST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] server power consumption

The Dell poweredge 1400, 1x P3 866, 1x 8.7G 10k rpm scsi disk,
+ 2 pci additional cards.
Peak power was starting X, ~92 W.
Checked this against my ibm 686, 233 Mhz which is 140 W.

steve
_______________
Steve Edmonds
Steve71atattglobal dot net

3====================================

Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:43:52 +1000
From: Daryl Pilkington <u3232athome.dialix dot com>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] server power consumption

Thanks Steve,
This is exactly the sort of info I was asking.
Being a "least effort" person, I didn't really want to go around to 1/2
dozen computers with a wattmeter/voltmeter/ammeter, <grin>.

Just goes to show, the power consuption of PCs is not negligible, even
with the monitor off.
Looks like your Dell has a much more efficient PSU, lower power HDD etc.
Based on the hardware spec, one would expect the IBM 686 to use less
power than the Dell!

Now lets see:

0.14 * (24 * 365) * 0.0938 = 
(1)    (2)              (3)

(1) hourly energy use, 0.14kWh
(2) period, 24 h/day, 365 days/year
(3) Electricity cost, $0.0938 kWh

Your IBM 686 uses $115 electricity/year.
Your Dell uses $76 electricity/year.

Lets look at a sensible usage in a SOHO, for a workstation, ie it can be
turned-off when not in use.

Now most newer equipment has power-management as standard, but their are
many people who have a lot of older equipment that is still quite
servicable, but has little or no power management.

Due to turn-on surges stressing electrical equipment when it is
switched-on, it is *not* a good idea to constantly turn on & off
equipment, but once or twice a day isn't going to hurt it.

Now if you're a forgetful person, why not schedule an automatic shutdown
of your computer & put one of those $25 electronic timers on the
power-board so all your peripherals, (printer, scanner...) get
switched-off too.

 Switch on at start of work:  8:00
      Switch off at bedtime: 23:00
This represents a 15/24 duty cycle.
Your IBM now only uses 15/24 * 115 = $72

Steve Edmonds wrote:
> 
> The Dell poweredge 1400, 1x P3 866, 1x 8.7G 10k rpm scsi disk,
> + 2 pci additional cards.
> Peak power was starting X, ~92 W.
> Checked this against my ibm 686, 233 Mhz which is 140 W.
> 
> steve
> _______________
> Steve Edmonds
> Steve71atattglobal dot net

-- 
Regards, 

Daryl  Pilkington 

//// The PC Therapist, Business Computing Integration
O<O  AUSTRALIA
\_/
<O>  OS/2 Warp, Redhat Linux, DB2
     IBM Certified Systems Expert

        email: darylpatpc-therapist dot com dot au
          ICQ: 91914134
          Tel: +61-2-8902-1300
          Mob: +61-425-251-300
      Mob SMS: 0425251300.0000atorangenet dot com dot au
               (120 characters max, send no carriage returns)

4====================================

Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:43:21 +1000
From: Ed Durrant <edurrantatbigpond dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] more real

I presume your're running RP8 via Odin ?  I've been trying to get
it working, with mixed results and would be interested how you
installed it.

As for not being able to contact the server, perhaps you are using
a proxy server with your ISP ?  I'm pretty sure there's a way to
configure this in RP but best is if you can sockify the whole TCP
stack, if socks is an option - in this case RP8 see's the internet
directly.

I know this made the difference when installing Apple Quicktime5
thru ODIN as this downloads most of the code from the internet.

By the way this doesn't work through ODIN as it keeps saying the
demo copy has expired when in fact it hasn't.  However a JAVA
version is included ......

Regards,
Ed Durrant.

Michael Block wrote:

> another problem I have with Real Basic player v8 is that I
> can't add new channels as I get an error message saying
> that it can't contact the server. Is anyone else using Real
> Player 8?
> regards
>
> Michael Block
> ---------------------------> Caca et declina medicus
>
> http://members.optushome dot com dot au/mblock/perinatal.html
> The www home of perinatal psychiatry
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To Subscribe/Unsubscribe please go to http://www.os2site.com/list/
> ==============================================

5====================================

Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:57:46 +1000
From: Ed Durrant <edurrantatbigpond dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.

Ian, on your problem, I'd ask one thing - are the Memory Simms identical ? That is
not only same speed and parity/non-parity but also same manufacturer. I remember
similar problems back in the 386 and 486 days where mixing manufacturers
components can cause this problem. Don't think that since both Simms have IBM
lables on them, that they are the same. IBM, like all computer companies "rebadge"
components.

  That'd be my read on your problems though. Oh yes and if there's a setting in the
CMOS to set parity or non-parity, check this is correct.

Ian Manners wrote:

> Hi Craig
>
> Dongggg
>
> I've had someone bring in an IBM 6482-X6F (Desktop) 486DX4-100 PC,
> about two months ago, with a similar type of problem, so tonight,
> I took my spare IBM 6492-X6F (Tower) 486DX4-100 PC out of the cupboard
> identical MB, same model No., and rev, still with a 540Mb HD with
> OS/2 v4 FP13 loaded, a replacement dump file but still using the
> clock2.sys file that comes wiht FP13, fired it up, perfect.

6====================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:46:07 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.

Hi Ed

Actually, Craig, were are you exactly ?

>Ian, on your problem, I'd ask one thing - are the Memory Simms identical ? That is
>not only same speed and parity/non-parity but also same manufacturer. I remember
>similar problems back in the 386 and 486 days where mixing manufacturers
>components can cause this problem. Don't think that since both Simms have IBM
>lables on them, that they are the same. IBM, like all computer companies "rebadge"
>components.

Its all the same brand and speed RAM, I've been in the industry long
enough to develop my little "voodoo" habits :-)
Misubishi RAM, I also tried Generic IBM RAM from the same batch.

>  That'd be my read on your problems though. Oh yes and if there's a setting in the
>CMOS to set parity or non-parity, check this is correct.

The RAM is all Full Parity, as this is the only type that fits
these M/B's.

I have had similar problems with a AS/400 in Kalgoorlie
a few years ago, only it was to do with a tape changer
controller, couldnt fault it but I ended up replacing the
controller in the changer, as I came to the conclusion
it just couldnt be anything else, lo, changing the controller
worked.

So in Craigs case, as he has already mentioned that he
has swapped all the hardware over, if he can put his HD into
another Pentium PC350, or PC300, and it works ok, I think
I would call it quit's and say its the M/B, it is important
that he does this last step though, if possible, as Craigs
got an IBM email address, I would have thought it was
possible ;-)

I would (maybe wrongly) assume that Craig has already tried
booting several times with all non essential cards removed.

I do now that OS/2 is less forgiving of timing anomalys that
Windows or Linux is, which is also why Dani's having problems
with one VIA IDE chipset with her Dani drivers, and yet windows
works fine.

ie OS/2 has been built to a standard, shame about some of the
hardware, and it is normal for crystals on M/B's to drift from there
optimal speed over time, and considering this 6482 is almost
10 years old, thats to be expected.

7====================================

From: "Steve Edmonds" <steve71atattglobal dot net>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:45:26 +1000 (EST)
Subject: [os2genau] ftpd

Hi,
thanks to Daryl my lpr printing is great.
I have a problem that ftpd now doesn't work.

I've left the info at work, but from memory.
I had W4 with FP12,
applied, not necessarrily in the following order but as instructed,
8610
980
8621
17??.exe from Germany.

ftpd.exe was dated 1997 and is now dated 1999. (the 1997 one doesn't work now either)

Is there a fix for the fix?

steve


_______________
Steve Edmonds
Steve71atattglobal dot net

8====================================

From: "Michael Block" <mblockatoptushome dot com dot au>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 20:58:41 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] more real

On Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:43:21 +1000, Ed Durrant wrote:

>I presume your're running RP8 via Odin ?  I've been trying to get
>it working, with mixed results and would be interested how you
>installed it.
I installed ir directly into OS/2 as win2000
(uncharacteristiclly) won't stay up for more than 2
minutes. Just installed it, the install crashed right at
the end but it must have completed as it worked first time.
>
>As for not being able to contact the server, perhaps you are using
>a proxy server with your ISP ?


no, a direct connection thru optusathome

  I'm pretty sure there's a way to
>configure this in RP but best is if you can sockify the whole TCP
>stack, if socks is an option - in this case RP8 see's the internet
>directly.
>
>I know this made the difference when installing Apple Quicktime5
>thru ODIN as this downloads most of the code from the internet.
>
>By the way this doesn't work through ODIN as it keeps saying the
>demo copy has expired when in fact it hasn't.  However a JAVA
>version is included ......
>
>Regards,
>Ed Durrant.
>
>Michael Block wrote:
>
>> another problem I have with Real Basic player v8 is that I
>> can't add new channels as I get an error message saying
>> that it can't contact the server. Is anyone else using Real
>> Player 8?
>> regards
>>
>> Michael Block
>> ---------------------------> Caca et declina medicus
>>
>> http://members.optushome dot com dot au/mblock/perinatal.html
>> The www home of perinatal psychiatry
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To Subscribe/Unsubscribe please go to http://www.os2site.com/list/
>> ==============================================
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To Subscribe/Unsubscribe please go to http://www.os2site.com/list/
>==============================================

regards

Michael Block
---------------------------> Caca et declina medicus

http://members.optushome dot com dot au/mblock/perinatal.html
The www home of perinatal psychiatry

9====================================

Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.
From: "Craig Brookes" <brookesatau1.ibm dot com>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:59:11 +1000

> PC, sometimes it loads, sometimes not, ratio of 6 failures out of 10
> cold boots. Never makes it to a full desktop but the mouse always
> works, sometimes it stops loading before the drivers have finished

Yes, that makes my PC look good.  Once mine get's a 'good' boot it's fine
for weeks.

> Run my trusty old 64xx VP diags disk, passed
> with flying colours, including the video test.

That is pretty nasty.

> Just some food for thought :-)

It might actually be a disappointment  for me if I eventually get a new
model PC before I find a fix for this problem.  I have been working with
this problem for over a year and a half now, and a new PC would remove my
entertainment.

Craig

10====================================

Subject: [os2genau] NS46DRAG.DLL loaded early
From: "Craig Brookes" <brookesatau1.ibm dot com>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:02:25 +1000

Hello.

A strange thing I noticed today was that NS46DRAG.DLL could not be renamed
on my PC, even after I had just rebooted and netscape had not been started.
OS/2 claimed that the DLL was in use by the system.  Theseus showed it as a
loaded file?!  I could not see an obvious WPS class or something that would
cause the DLL to be loaded independently of netscape.  I had to reboot to
ALT-F1 commandline to rename it.  My other PCs were easy, I just shutdown
netscape (or perhaps didn't start netscape after a boot) and I just went
and renamed the DLL.   ?????

What was NS46DRAG.DLL doing loaded so early on?

Well it's renamed now so I'll see if that helps my system be more stable.

Bye

Craig

11====================================

Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.
From: "Craig Brookes" <brookesatau1.ibm dot com>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:29:36 +1000

>  Actually, Craig, were are you exactly ?

IBM Global Services in Perth.

> if he can put his HD into another Pentium PC350, or PC300,
> and it works ok, I think I would call it quit's
> as Craigs got an IBM email address, I would have thought
> it was possible ;-)

I can possibly talk to someone who might have an old spare drive
to suit my machine, and I can put that into my box as drive 2,
copy across all the data, toss the original drive in a drawer,
switch the new drive to drive 1 C:\ and D:\, and see what happens.

> I would (maybe wrongly) assume that Craig has already tried
> booting several times with all non essential cards removed.

Yep.  Only extra card is a token-ring LAN card, and I've swapped it
with another.  I can't really run without a LAN card, as someone
expects me to logon to some machines and do some work.

I have had three boots today (booted to change config) with no
indications of my problem... that is how it is.  As this latest
boot seems 'good' I might not shutdown until the weekend.

Also, any comments on this?

I changed MEMMAN to NOSWAP instead of SWAP to run without the
SWAPPER file.  It looked ok to start with... Theseus said that
there was 90M free RAM after boot, and that the SWAPPER had 0
frames, etc, but for some strange reason Sysbar/2 was showing only
about 9000kb free RAM.  As I loaded a few things this amount ticked
down to under 1000kb, although Theseus still showed 50-60M RAM free.
Once Sysbar/2 got down to 0kb free the OS trapped with some kind of
problem from LazyWrite complaining about no free memory.

This seems pretty strange... not really what I expected to happen.

Back to ALT-F1 commandline to change back to SWAP, and reboot back
to the full OS/2.  I have noticed that the SWAPPER is only 1M in
size instead of the 128M requested in the CONFIG.SYS.  I assume it
had been deleted by OS/2 when I booted with NOSWAP, and now when I
booted back with SWAP it may have looked at C: partition and decided
that there is not enough space to create the 128M file and given me
a 1M file????

I must admit I did dump a lot of files onto that partition last week
so there wasn't a lot of spare room, but there was 132M free so it
could have nearly made it fit... plus there should have been one large
contiguous extent of 128M free space to use from the deleted SWAPPER
file.  I have to go and rebuild the SWAPPER sometime.  It was the first
file on that partition so it was 128M in one chunk.  Lovely.  Bit of a
waste though as this 144M RAM machine didn't ever use too much of the
swapper, and the total hard drive space on this PC is only 1.2 gig.

Please note.  This partition is 300M so that 128M SWAPPER sat there with
it all to itself for months... so me dumping files into that partition
and filling it up didn't cause my intermittant 'bad' boot problem that
I have been suffering.  (just in case you asked)


Bye,
Craig

12====================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:23:23 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.

Hi Craig

>It might actually be a disappointment  for me if I eventually get a new
>model PC before I find a fix for this problem.  I have been working with
>this problem for over a year and a half now, and a new PC would remove my
>entertainment.

I know what you mean, I'm thinking of starting my consulting again,
or sending my resume's out to get a "real" job, this server hosting stuff
is a bit boring, I wonder if thats why company's do a lot of WinNT
hosting ;-)

Nothing worse than an illogical PC that will not let you fix it.

Already sent my resume to NCR in Sydney (for Melbourne)
tonight, so I'll ring Adrian or someone at IBM here in Melbourne
to find out were I send one to IBM, I miss the ATM and banking
stuff more than PC's though.

Cheers
Ian Manners

13====================================

Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:24:55 +0200
From: Kris Steenhaut <kris.steenhautatvillage.uunet.be>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.

Craig Brookes schreef:

> Also, any comments on this?
>
> I changed MEMMAN to NOSWAP instead of SWAP to run without the
> SWAPPER file.  It looked ok to start with...

Sure it is ...


> Theseus said that
> there was 90M free RAM after boot, and that the SWAPPER had 0
> frames, etc,

Quite right.


> but for some strange reason Sysbar/2 was showing only
> about 9000kb free RAM.

Not that strange at all. Sysbar and most other tools (memsize etc...) rely on the
presence of a swapper.dat to calculate the free available memory. To put it blunt,
tools like that aren't quite reliable.



> down to under 1000kb, although Theseus still showed 50-60M RAM free.

As it should do.


>
> Once Sysbar/2 got down to 0kb free the OS trapped with some kind of
> problem from LazyWrite complaining about no free memory.

Sysbar/2 trapped the os coz no swapper.dat. Known "feature" <G>


> This seems pretty strange... not really what I expected to happen.
>

Well, now you know. :=)

>
> Back to ALT-F1 commandline to change back to SWAP, and reboot back
> to the full OS/2.  I have noticed that the SWAPPER is only 1M in
> size instead of the 128M requested in the CONFIG.SYS.  I assume it
> had been deleted by OS/2 when I booted with NOSWAP,

No, no way ...


> and now when I
> booted back with SWAP it may have looked at C: partition and decided
> that there is not enough space to create the 128M file and given me
> a 1M file????
>

Sure the 1 Mb swapper.dat isn't marked read-only?


> waste though as this 144M RAM machine didn't ever use too much of the
> swapper,

Quite right. Running Noswap for almost two years here, and sure it is I'm not going to
restore the damned thing.


> Please note.  This partition is 300M so that 128M SWAPPER sat there with
> it all to itself for months... so me dumping files into that partition

My advise is: as Ram is cheap these days, just put in an additional 64 Mb and change
to Memman=NoSwap.

--
Groeten uit Gent,

   Kris

14====================================

From: "Ian Manners" <deadmail>
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:00:34 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] RAM, Thread, what ever problem.

Hi Craig

>>  Actually, Craig, were are you exactly ?
>
>IBM Global Services in Perth.

Shame I won't be back in Perth for a few months, sounds like
a real test. I lived and worked in Kalgoorlie until I became a
Family Law Court refuge.

>I can possibly talk to someone who might have an old spare drive
>to suit my machine, and I can put that into my box as drive 2,
>copy across all the data, toss the original drive in a drawer,
>switch the new drive to drive 1 C:\ and D:\, and see what happens.

I fairly quick way.

>> I would (maybe wrongly) assume that Craig has already tried
>> booting several times with all non essential cards removed.
>
>Yep.  Only extra card is a token-ring LAN card, and I've swapped it
>with another.  I can't really run without a LAN card, as someone
>expects me to logon to some machines and do some work.

Very understandable, I've never had a problem with Token-ring
cards, not the ones the ANZ were using anyway.

>I have had three boots today (booted to change config) with no
>indications of my problem... that is how it is.  As this latest
>boot seems 'good' I might not shutdown until the weekend.

Yep, good luck, I both love and hate faults like this, love on my
own stuff, hate them on customers gear.

>Also, any comments on this?
>
>I changed MEMMAN to NOSWAP instead of SWAP to run without the
>SWAPPER file.  It looked ok to start with... Theseus said that
>there was 90M free RAM after boot, and that the SWAPPER had 0
>frames, etc, but for some strange reason Sysbar/2 was showing only
>about 9000kb free RAM.  As I loaded a few things this amount ticked
>down to under 1000kb, although Theseus still showed 50-60M RAM free.

I wouldnt rely on what any other program apart from Theseus, or
SysInfo (Which uses Theseus) to be accurate unless you have a
swap file.

>This seems pretty strange... not really what I expected to happen.

Logical and correct.

>Once Sysbar/2 got down to 0kb free the OS trapped with some kind of
>problem from LazyWrite complaining about no free memory.

Sounds like its something to do with Sysbar/2, try unloading it.

>Back to ALT-F1 commandline to change back to SWAP, and reboot back
>to the full OS/2.  I have noticed that the SWAPPER is only 1M in
>size instead of the 128M requested in the CONFIG.SYS.  I assume it
>had been deleted by OS/2 when I booted with NOSWAP, and now when I

OS/2 just leaves the swap file there, it needs to be manually deleted, so
setting NOSWAP wont zap it, probably to do with disk space.

>booted back with SWAP it may have looked at C: partition and decided
>that there is not enough space to create the 128M file and given me
>a 1M file????

If there is not enough space for the requested swap file size, yes,
this is what it does, it will then grow as needed.

>I must admit I did dump a lot of files onto that partition last week
>so there wasn't a lot of spare room, but there was 132M free so it
>could have nearly made it fit... plus there should have been one large
>contiguous extent of 128M free space to use from the deleted SWAPPER
>file.  I have to go and rebuild the SWAPPER sometime.  It was the first
>file on that partition so it was 128M in one chunk.  Lovely.  Bit of a
>waste though as this 144M RAM machine didn't ever use too much of the
>swapper, and the total hard drive space on this PC is only 1.2 gig.

144Mb would be borderline, for continues use, I would still use
a swap file, I personally dont use one but then my PC's a fully
loaded IBM Netfinity, all SCSI :-)

>Please note.  This partition is 300M so that 128M SWAPPER sat there with
>it all to itself for months... so me dumping files into that partition
>and filling it up didn't cause my intermittant 'bad' boot problem that
>I have been suffering.  (just in case you asked)

No, cant see that happening unless the swap file is resizing over
bad blocks.

Cheers
Ian Manners

End====================================
List Admin Note: The format of the digest will be changing
in the next few weeks or so, to allow easier reading, the codings
just a bit more difficult but thank you for bearing with me.
