From: Digest <deadmail>
To: "OS/2GenAu Digest"<deadmail>
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:01:21 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600
Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 1632
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**************************************************
Friday 28 March 2008
 Number  1632
**************************************************

Subjects for today
 
1  Re:  Spam : madodel <madodel at ptdprolog dot net>
2  Re:  Spam : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
3  Re:  Spam : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
4  Re:  Spam : John Angelico" <talldad at kepl dot com dot au>
5  Re:  Spam : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
6  Re:  Spam : Simon Lewis <zermatt at attglobal dot net>
7  Re:  Spam : Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
8  Re:  Spam : Peter Moylan <peter at pmoylan dot org>
9  Re:  Spam : John Angelico" <talldad at kepl dot com dot au>
10  Re:  Spam : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
11  Re:  Spam : Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>

**= Email   1 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:01:53 -0500
From:  madodel <madodel at ptdprolog dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Spam

Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 27/03/08 23:08, Voytek Eymont wrote:
>> <quote who="Voytek Eymont">
>>
>>> Peter,
>>> do any OS/2 mail clients support IMAP/TLS ? POP/TLS ? SMTP/AUTH ?
>>
>> I guess Thunderbird does, but I don't think PMMail does
> 
> That's the answer I was going to give, but I must admit that it's a
> couple of years since I looked at any OS/2 mail client other than
> Thunderbird. At a certain point - after waiting almost forever for
> PMMail to get updated character set support - I decided that Thunderbird
> was the only client that had a chance of being upgraded to meet changing
> practices and standards. MR/2 ICE was still being supported at that
> stage, but it was a bit klunky even by comparison with a non-supported
> PMMail.
> 
> It's possible that PMMail might move ahead in the race, since it's
> supported again. The reason why Thunderbird updates keep coming is that
> Innotek made it easy to port Windows versions of Mozilla software to
> OS/2. What happens when Thunderbird starts using Windows features that
> Innotek doesn't support, given that (as far as I know) Innotek is no
> longer updating their stuff? This makes me nervous, given that Windows
> has always been a moving target.
> 

MR2ICE does support SMTP/Authentication as well.  And its still being 
developed, just not by Nick Knight any more.

Mark

-- 

  From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

  Warpstock 2007 - Toronto, Ontario, Canada: http://www.warpstock dot org
  Warpstock Europe - Valkenswaard close to Eindhoven, the Netherlands: 
http://www.warpstock.eu


For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - 
http://www.os2voice dot org

   "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the 
growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their 
democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of 
government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private 
power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly 
Investigation, 1938
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   2 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:35:13 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Spam


<quote who="Peter Moylan">

> That's the answer I was going to give, but I must admit that it's a
> couple of years since I looked at any OS/2 mail client other than
> Thunderbird. At a certain point - after waiting almost forever for
> PMMail to get updated character set support - I decided that Thunderbird
> was the only client that had a chance of being upgraded to meet changing
> practices and standards. MR/2 ICE was still being supported at that stage,
> but it was a bit klunky even by comparison with a non-supported PMMail.


thanks, Peter

I was looking at something that I can use with PMfax, as transport for
faxes, but with smtp/auth support, I've been using PRM for that

it might be easier for me to install a local mail server...

-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   3 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 06:36:34 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Spam


<quote who="madodel">
> Peter Moylan wrote:
>
>> On 27/03/08 23:08, Voytek Eymont wrote:

> MR2ICE does support SMTP/Authentication as well.  And its still being
> developed, just not by Nick Knight any more.

Mark,
thanks, I'll try that, I think MR2ICE is supported by PMfax


-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   4 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:09:45 +1000 (AEST)
From:  "John Angelico" <talldad at kepl dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Spam

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:08:54 +1100 (EST), Voytek Eymont wrote:

>
><quote who="Voytek Eymont">
>
>> Peter,
>> do any OS/2 mail clients support IMAP/TLS ? POP/TLS ? SMTP/AUTH ?
>
>I guess Thunderbird does, but I don't think PMMail does
>
>

That's "yet", Voytek. <g>

For PMMail, there is SMTP Auth as I posted from the help file, but IMAP is
still to come.

However, it IS on the agenda.

I don't need (:-) ) the TLS security but if you go to the VOICE site and
ask a question the gurus of the PMMail dev team will be able to tell you
more (and prob more than you want to know<g>).

Best regards
John Angelico
OS/2 Zealot
Melbourne Victoria, AUSTRALIA
Email: talldad at kepl dot com dot au
------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   5 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:26:46 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Spam


<quote who="John Angelico">
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:08:54 +1100 (EST), Voytek Eymont wrote:

>> <quote who="Voytek Eymont">

>>> do any OS/2 mail clients support IMAP/TLS ? POP/TLS ? SMTP/AUTH ?

>> I guess Thunderbird does, but I don't think PMMail does

> That's "yet", Voytek. <g>
>
>
> For PMMail, there is SMTP Auth as I posted from the help file, but IMAP
> is still to come.
>
> However, it IS on the agenda.
>
>
> I don't need (:-) ) the TLS security but if you go to the VOICE site and
> ask a question the gurus of the PMMail dev team will be able to tell you
> more (and prob more than you want to know<g>).

John, thanks

yes, I've read the file you've posted, downloaded the archive
I'm really not sure what I've seen it does what I wanted it to do (SMTP
AUTH);
secondly, the build I've installed didn't seem that ready for prime time....

and, just to explain, I'm NOT looking for a mail client to use as a mail
client, I want something to use with PMfax's email fax feature;
that will support smtp auth so I can relay via may (remote) mail server,
or, relay via my isp's mail server

I use PRM for that, problem is, no smtp auth
it might prove easier to install a local mail server



-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   6 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 27 Mar 2008 18:58:33 -0700
From:  Simon Lewis <zermatt at attglobal dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Spam

Thank you. SBC  "technical support" is a true oxymoron, and their fee 
based "Support Plus" more so. Apparently lots of customers are having 
email problems, their only solution to push people into SSL and onto SBC 
Yahoo mail.Everything else is "unsupported."

Simon

Voytek Eymont wrote:

><quote who="Peter Moylan">
>  
>
>>On 27/03/08 02:24, Simon Lewis wrote:
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>You might have the ports set incorrectly. Without SSL, the standard mail
>>ports are 110 for POP3 and 25 for SMTP. With SSL, you should use port 995
>>for POP and port 465 for SMTP. Some mail clients will change the port
>>numbers automatically as soon as you specify the use of TLS. (Or SSL, for
>>older mail clients.) Others don't, so it would be a good idea to check.
>>    
>>
>
>and IMAP on 143 and IMAP/TLS 993;
>and, SMTP can also be on 587 (which is what I use (but no longer recall
>why I chose 587 over 465))
>
>services:submission     587/tcp         msa             # mail message
>submission
>services:submission     587/udp         msa             # mail message
>submission
>services:smtps          465/tcp                         # SMTP over SSL (TLS)
>
>Peter,
>do any OS/2 mail clients support IMAP/TLS ? POP/TLS ? SMTP/AUTH ?
>
>
>  
>


[attachments have been removed]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   7 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:34:18 +1100
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
Subject:  Re:  Spam

I had lots of problems with BigPond's SPAM system holding up valid mail 
for 6 hours - so much so that I switched to Google Mail. No more 
problems (Google mail dioes require a logon using SSL however - 
Thunderbird has this capability).

Cheers/2

Ed.

Simon Lewis wrote:
> Thank you. SBC "technical support" is a true oxymoron, and their fee 
> based "Support Plus" more so. Apparently lots of customers are having 
> email problems, their only solution to push people into SSL and onto 
> SBC Yahoo mail.Everything else is "unsupported."
>
> Simon
>
> Voytek Eymont wrote:
>
>> <quote who="Peter Moylan">
>>
>>
>>> On 27/03/08 02:24, Simon Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> You might have the ports set incorrectly. Without SSL, the standard 
>>> mail
>>> ports are 110 for POP3 and 25 for SMTP. With SSL, you should use 
>>> port 995
>>> for POP and port 465 for SMTP. Some mail clients will change the port
>>> numbers automatically as soon as you specify the use of TLS. (Or 
>>> SSL, for
>>> older mail clients.) Others don't, so it would be a good idea to check.
>>>
>>
>> and IMAP on 143 and IMAP/TLS 993;
>> and, SMTP can also be on 587 (which is what I use (but no longer recall
>> why I chose 587 over 465))
>>
>> services:submission 587/tcp msa # mail message
>> submission
>> services:submission 587/udp msa # mail message
>> submission
>> services:smtps 465/tcp # SMTP over SSL (TLS)
>>
>> Peter,
>> do any OS/2 mail clients support IMAP/TLS ? POP/TLS ? SMTP/AUTH ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [attachments have been removed]
 
>
> 

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   8 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:33:15 +1100
From:  Peter Moylan <peter at pmoylan dot org>
Subject:  Re:  Spam

Ed Durrant wrote:
> I had lots of problems with BigPond's SPAM system holding up valid
> mail for 6 hours - so much so that I switched to Google Mail. No more
>  problems (Google mail dioes require a logon using SSL however - 
> Thunderbird has this capability).
> 
Just a minor correction to the terminology. There are two options you
can choose for the incoming server, and the same two options again for
the outgoing server:

1. "Secure authentication" in Thunderbird encrypts the login, i.e. the
username and password. It does this by using the AUTH command, which is
a standard command in IMAP and an optional extension - an option that is
implemented by most mail software these days - in POP3 and SMTP.

2. "Secure connection" encrypts the actual mail message during
transmission, so that anyone listening in can't read the mail. Here, you
can choose TLS (the current standard) or SSL (for older mail servers).

Sensible ISPs ask for option 1 (authentication) as an anti-spammer
measure. They shouldn't be asking for option 2 (TLS or SSL). That should
be your own personal decision, because it has nothing to do with needing
to supply a password.

-- 
Peter Moylan                                    http://www.pmoylan dot org
peter at pmoylan dot org
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   9 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:20:34 +1000 (AEST)
From:  "John Angelico" <talldad at kepl dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Spam

On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:26:46 +1100 (EST), Voytek Eymont wrote:

>and, just to explain, I'm NOT looking for a mail client to use as a mail
>client, I want something to use with PMfax's email fax feature;
>that will support smtp auth so I can relay via may (remote) mail server,
>or, relay via my isp's mail server

Fair enough. I never found that much use for the feature myself, because
here it looks like a solution looking for a problem we don't have. 

>I use PRM for that, problem is, no smtp auth
>it might prove easier to install a local mail server
>

I suggest that you keep talking to Peter M about Weasel then.


Best regards
John Angelico
OS/2 SIG
os2 at melbpc dot org dot au or 
talldad at kepl dot com dot au
___________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

**= Email   10 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:43:51 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Spam


<quote who="John Angelico">
> On Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:26:46 +1100 (EST), Voytek Eymont wrote:

> Fair enough. I never found that much use for the feature myself, because
> here it looks like a solution looking for a problem we don't have.

I sometimes get stuff, brochures, quotes in the mail or by fax, generally
several pages, that I need to distribute to a number of ppl

with PMfax/PRM, it's a cinch, if it's fax, just (re) efax to a
distribution list; if it's a letter/brochure/whatever, just whack it on
the ADF, click on CopyShop, presto, done

i find it a terrific tool for distributing bits of paper to ppl

-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   11 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:04:22 +1100
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
Subject:  Re:  Spam

Peter Moylan wrote:
> Ed Durrant wrote:
>> I had lots of problems with BigPond's SPAM system holding up valid
>> mail for 6 hours - so much so that I switched to Google Mail. No more
>>  problems (Google mail dioes require a logon using SSL however - 
>> Thunderbird has this capability).
>>
> Just a minor correction to the terminology. There are two options you
> can choose for the incoming server, and the same two options again for
> the outgoing server:
>
> 1. "Secure authentication" in Thunderbird encrypts the login, i.e. the
> username and password. It does this by using the AUTH command, which is
> a standard command in IMAP and an optional extension - an option that is
> implemented by most mail software these days - in POP3 and SMTP.
>
> 2. "Secure connection" encrypts the actual mail message during
> transmission, so that anyone listening in can't read the mail. Here, you
> can choose TLS (the current standard) or SSL (for older mail servers).
>
> Sensible ISPs ask for option 1 (authentication) as an anti-spammer
> measure. They shouldn't be asking for option 2 (TLS or SSL). That should
> be your own personal decision, because it has nothing to do with needing
> to supply a password.
>
Google mail requires SSL on port 995.
Cheers/2

Ed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

