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Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 124
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Date:- 21 July 2001

1================================================

From: "Ian Manners" <ianatos2site dot com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 01:41:40 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] PPPoE default route uses Peer-IP

Hi Daryl

>I am unable to get ftp to start a binary transfer on the gateway.
>Intranet hosts work just fine.

If you are using IBM's FTP, it will not work, it cannot do passive
mode, and FTP through the firewall requires passive mode, on
the internal side, FTP will work fine in both modes.

>Even using my original setup.cmd & gateway.cf which used to work with
>the Local-IP, it still doesn't work.

>This suggests iPrimus dot com dot au have changed their network environment in
>the last 2 days.

Possibly, but I cant see them making changes that would affect the
MTU, otherwise people everywere would start having problems,
ok, maybe.

>I strongly suspect a MTU problem.
>Notice I have got mtudiscover=0 to reduce CPU load on the gateway.
>I'm assuming IJF will sort this out for the gateway, since:
>fragment=yes

IJF doesnt modify the MTU at all, unless you specify it in
gateway.cf, then it will fragment the packets leaving the firewall
according to the MTU setting in gateway.cf

>Perhaps this is not the case, & I need mtudiscover=1?

you can try mtudiscover=1 , see what happens :-)

TCP/IP v4.3, the mtudiscover= is broken, stays on anyway :-(

>Perhaps this is a bug with WR08621 & ic27255 which is TCP/IP v4.21?
>Do you think I need to upgrade to TCP/IP v4.3?

Should work with v4.0x - v4.3 ok.

>Based on your advice, Ian, I have modified:
>\ijf\gateway.cf
>\mptn\bin\setup.cmd
>
>MTU is set across the board to 1492 rather than 1454.
>1454 was chosen as the iPrimus supplied, EnterNet v1.8 software forces
>MTU 1454.

if EnterNet (connect dot com dot au :-) sets the MTU to 1454, then
I would set MTU at 1454.

ie, in x:\mptn\bin\setup.cmd

ifconfig lan0 192.168.1.x netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1454
ifconfig lan1 210.8.xxx.xxx netmask 255.255.255.0 metric 1 mtu 1454
inetcfg -s mtudiscover 0

Make sure you set the same value on EVERY PC on the
internal side as well.

It NEEDS to be the same throughout your network, this is
important.

>So I assumed iPrimus would do all their testing at this MTU.

Depending on what iPrimus use at there end, MTU could be
a non event, as long as every single MTU reference you have
is the same value.

>This decision was made many months ago, & iPrimus' network may have
>changed since.

>Intranet hosts work much faster at 1492 & not forcing the loopback
>interface MTU seems to speed things up too.

Loopback is normaly worked with a different MTU value, as it
is only local, and a different MTU value helps ensures that
external sources find it harder to break in to the local machine
using the local interface.

netstat -n | more

will probably tell you the local interface is using 1536,
this is fine, dont put any MTU setting on "ifconfig lo".

>Ian, you suggested all lan interfaces should use the same MTU.
>Why is this?

MTU is the "Mean Transmission Unit".

Think of a pipe (MTU), and a glass rod (Data), try to push the glass
rod up the pipe, it just fits, now, put a clamp on the pipe so that the
pipe is squeezed in by say, 3 mm, try and get the glass rod up the
pipe, wont fit will it :)

So you must always ensure the pipe diameter is such that the glass
rod will always fit through. If the pipe is bigger, that can also cause
problems but normally not lose of data. if the pipe is to small, then
the data simply cannot get through, some data can get through but
you normally find that parts of it are "shaved" off, so the data is
corrupt.

You can also use a smaller glass rod, ie, a smaller MTU data size,
as there will be wastage in volume through the pipe due to the air
around the rod, but you will still get the rod through.

Their is however an upper limit to pipe diameter, dictated by what
you are using, ie, cable, ISDN, ADSL, Ethernet.

I use 1500 through out my network as its ethernet based, with ISDN
routers on both ends.

>If PPPoE supports a maximum MTU=1492, wouldn't it be advantageous to
>force this MTU on the intranet?

I would have though that this is what it was, or should be for cable.
Possibly also for ADSL, I've not had any experience with DSL
yet......

Be aware that if you have even one machine with a smaller MTU set
that the others (or the firewall), the MTU value on the internal firewall
interface will drop DOWN in value, meaning your pipe just got smaller,
and the larger packets on the external interface will nolonger be able
to get through without corruptions, as the MTU value on the external
interface will remain as it was set.

With TCP/IP v4.3, or v4.31, setting the MTU to no discovery doesnt
work, the interface MTU drops in value anyway, so its very important
that you have nothing that will lower the MTU value, if you do, set
all MTU values to this lower figure.

>This would mean no packet reconstruction would be required on the
>gateway, improving performance.

Leave fragment=yes  in your gateway.cf
and comment out ALL MTU values in your gateway.cf.
Makes no perceived difference re performance when
running the Text based interface.

>I am only running a P100 IBM 320 Server as the gateway.
>Is packet reconstruction a CPU issue?

Minimal, I'd be surprised if you even noticed it.

>Would this be less of a performance hit if I put the gateway on a faster
>box?

The GUI sucks up cycles, the textmode interface runs very
nicely on an old 486DX66 with 24Mb RAM.

The GUI does still run with no problems on a P166, I wouldnt
run it on a 486DX66 though (The GUI interface)

>Correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine 1500 bit packets go up to the
>ADSL bridge, even though the data payload can only be 1492, meaning I
>shouldn't force the ADSL ethernet interface to MTU=1492.

If all your MTU values are lower than the ADSL bridge, that should
be ok, MTU is your hose, the MTU settings you are using are effectively
the packet size, (transmission unit) allowed through the hose, or the hose
diameter.

Your settings below wont work :-)

>route -fh
>arp -f
>ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1
>ifconfig lo mtu 1454
>ifconfig lan0 10.0.0.10 netmask 255.255.255.0
>ifconfig lan0 mtu 1500        <== To big, lan0 =< lan1
>ifconfig lan1 192.168.1.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
>ifconfig lan1 mtu 1454
>route add default 192.168.1.200
>route change default -mtu 1454  < not needed.
>inetcfg -s synattack 1
>inetcfg -s keepalive 120
>inetcfg -s multidefrt 0
>inetcfg -s mtudiscover 0
>ipgate on


Notice I put your inetcfg statements down below.



>\ijf\gateway.20010626 (original)
>*********************************************************
>...
>fragment=yes
>MTU=1454

make it 

fragment=yes
;MTU=1454

>*********************************************************
>
>\mptn\bin\setup.cmd (current)
>*********************************************************

Try leaving MTU settings out of setup.cmd, and see if
it self sets itself, use "netstat -n" to check.

>\ijf\gateway.cf (current)
>*********************************************************
>...
>fragment=yes
>MTU=1492

as above.


Cheers
Ian B Manners
http://www.os2site dot com/

Am I ignorant or apathetic?  I don't know and don't care!

2==============================================

Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:35:26 +1000
From: Daryl Pilkington <u3232athome.dialix dot com>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] PPPoE default route uses Peer-IP

Hi Ian,
Thanks for the detailed response.

********************************************************************
> If you are using IBM's FTP, it will not work, it cannot do passive
> mode, and FTP through the firewall requires passive mode, on
> the internal side, FTP will work fine in both modes.

I use Netscape and/or wget on the gateway.
Text is OK with Netscape, but binary transfers try to start but don't do
anything.
This is the same with wget, so since the problem is consistent, I don't
suspect wget or Netscape.

Are you saying:
1)
That on the gateway you must use passive mode?
2)
Intranet hosts pulling from the Internet don't need to use passive mode?

********************************************************************
> IJF doesn't modify the MTU at all, unless you specify it in
> gateway.cf, then it will fragment the packets leaving the firewall
> according to the MTU setting in gateway.cf
> 

OK, so are you saying since I have fragment=yes in gateway.cf, IJF will
modify the MTU?

********************************************************************
> >MTU is set across the board to 1492 rather than 1454.
> >1454 was chosen as the iPrimus supplied, EnterNet v1.8 software forces
> >MTU 1454.
> 
> if EnterNet (connect dot com dot au :-) sets the MTU to 1454, then
> I would set MTU at 1454.

EnterNet is the software vendor of the iPrimus-supplied PPPoE client,
not an ISP, (connect dot com dot au).
I currently have intranet hosts set to 1492 with great results.

********************************************************************
> ie, in x:\mptn\bin\setup.cmd
> 
> ifconfig lan0 192.168.1.x netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1454
> ifconfig lan1 210.8.xxx.xxx netmask 255.255.255.0 metric 1 mtu 1454
> inetcfg -s mtudiscover 0

I have mtu settings on a separate line as a bug in TCP/IP v4.21 doesn't
allow it to happen in 1 line like you have suggested :(

********************************************************************
> It NEEDS to be the same throughout your network, this is
> important.

Every PC has its MTU=1492, well almost, see later.

********************************************************************
> MTU is the "Mean Transmission Unit".

Amazing explaination of MTU:- you'd make a good teacher Ian.

********************************************************************
> Be aware that if you have even one machine with a smaller MTU set
> that the others (or the firewall), the MTU value on the internal firewall
> interface will drop DOWN in value, meaning your pipe just got smaller,
> and the larger packets on the external interface will nolonger be able
> to get through without corruptions, as the MTU value on the external
> interface will remain as it was set.

I thought this was the function of fragment=yes in gateway.cf?

So if fragment=yes, differing intranet/Internet MTU should still work,
albeit not as well as having it tuned correctly for Internet > internet
MTU.
Is this correct?

********************************************************************
> With TCP/IP v4.3, or v4.31, setting the MTU to no discovery doesnt
> work, the interface MTU drops in value anyway, so its very important
> that you have nothing that will lower the MTU value, if you do, set
> all MTU values to this lower figure.

OK, this sounds like a bug with TCP/IP v4.3, but I'm using v4.21.
I still have some intranet hosts set to 1454, rather than 1492.
How could I check the gateway intranet interface hasn't dropped MTU:-
netstat -n     ?

********************************************************************
> >This would mean no packet reconstruction would be required on the
> >gateway, improving performance.
> 
> Leave fragment=yes  in your gateway.cf
> and comment out ALL MTU values in your gateway.cf.
> Makes no perceived difference re performance when
> running the Text based interface.

I run the text interface:- GUIs are for girls & people who want to waste
time, :)

******************************************************************** 
> The GUI sucks up cycles, the textmode interface runs very
> nicely on an old 486DX66 with 24Mb RAM.

Great to know what actually works, Tnx.

********************************************************************
> >Correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine 1500 bit packets go up to the
> >ADSL bridge, even though the data payload can only be 1492, meaning I
> >shouldn't force the ADSL ethernet interface to MTU=1492.
> 
> If all your MTU values are lower than the ADSL bridge, that should
> be ok, MTU is your hose, the MTU settings you are using are effectively
> the packet size, (transmission unit) allowed through the hose, or the hose
> diameter.

Ian, (respectfully), I don't think you know how PPPoE works.
You mentioned, you don't have any DSL equipment yet, I do, so I've got
1st hand experience.
Please correct me if you see flaws in my thinking below!

IJF with the PPPoE plugin creates a virtual ppp0 interface to the ADSL
bridge with a maximum MTU of 1492.
There is a real, physical, ethernet interface to the ADSL modem/bridge,
sending MTU=1500 packets with an 8 byte PPPoE overhead/packet.

********************************************************************
> Your settings below wont work :-)
> 
> >route -fh
> >arp -f
> >ifconfig lo 127.0.0.1
> >ifconfig lo mtu 1454
> >ifconfig lan0 10.0.0.10 netmask 255.255.255.0
> >ifconfig lan0 mtu 1500        <== To big, lan0 =< lan1
> >ifconfig lan1 192.168.1.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
> >ifconfig lan1 mtu 1454
> >route add default 192.168.1.200
> >route change default -mtu 1454  < not needed.
> >inetcfg -s synattack 1
> >inetcfg -s keepalive 120
> >inetcfg -s multidefrt 0
> >inetcfg -s mtudiscover 0
> >ipgate on
> 
> Notice I put your inetcfg statements down below.

Thanks Ian, putting the inetcfg stuff last, do you think it makes a
difference?
What is your thinking here, is this the way it would be done on a *nix
box?

I checked my gateway with:
inetcfg -g all

Looking at \mptn\etc\inetcfg.ini, looks like that set from setup.cmd.

********************************************************************

>\ijf\gateway.20010626 (original)
>...
>fragment=yes
>MTU=1454

make it 

fragment=yes
;MTU=1454 

OK, will try, even though the InJoy PPPoE docs say otherwise, :)

-- 
Regards, 

Daryl  Pilkington 

//// The PC-Therapist, Business Computing Integration
O<O  AUSTRALIA
\_/
<O>  OS/2 Warp, Redhat Linux, DB2
     IBM Certified Systems Expert

        email: darylpatpc-therapist dot com dot au
          ICQ: 91914134
          Tel: +61-2-8902-1300
          Mob: +61-425-251-300
          Fax: +61-2-9411-3720
      Mob SMS: 0425251300.0000atorangenet dot com dot au
               (120 characters max, send no carriage returns)

3==============================================

From: "Ian Manners" <ianatos2site dot com>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:14:03 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] PPPoE default route uses Peer-IP

Hi Daryl

>Thanks for the detailed response.

Took me a while to get my head around MTU originally, as the
descriptions I originally read were, well, not understandable...

>I use Netscape and/or wget on the gateway.
>Text is OK with Netscape, but binary transfers try to start but don't do
>anything.
>This is the same with wget, so since the problem is consistent, I don't
>suspect wget or Netscape.

ok, sounds like a MTU mismatch problem, a bit of the data gets
though ok (text), a lot (binary) doesnt.

>Are you saying:
>1) That on the gateway you must use passive mode?

I assume here that gateway = firewall ?

The gateway to the internet is passive mode if 
firewall_transparent=no

The gateway to the internet is active mode if 
firewall_transparent=yes

>2)
>Intranet hosts pulling from the Internet don't need to use passive mode?

they need to all use passive mode, Netscape will do it automatically, if
one mode doesnt work, it tries the next mode/means.

>********************************************************************
>> IJF doesn't modify the MTU at all, unless you specify it in
>> gateway.cf, then it will fragment the packets leaving the firewall
>> according to the MTU setting in gateway.cf

>OK, so are you saying since I have fragment=yes in gateway.cf, IJF will
>modify the MTU?

IJF will not modify the MTU, it will use the MTU according to what it
recieves, IJF will fragment the packets to the MTU size if it is set in gateway.cf

>********************************************************************
>> >MTU is set across the board to 1492 rather than 1454.
>> >1454 was chosen as the iPrimus supplied, EnterNet v1.8 software forces
>> >MTU 1454.
>> 
>> if EnterNet (connect dot com dot au :-) sets the MTU to 1454, then
>> I would set MTU at 1454.

>EnterNet is the software vendor of the iPrimus-supplied PPPoE client,
>not an ISP, (connect dot com dot au).

EnterNet uses software originally from Connect dot com dot au, and I
believe also provides Internet access using Connect dot com dot au's
Impact plan for ISP's, I could be wrong here as the ISP world
changes so quick these days.

>I currently have intranet hosts set to 1492 with great results.

Great.

>> ie, in x:\mptn\bin\setup.cmd
>> ifconfig lan0 192.168.1.x netmask 255.255.255.0 mtu 1454
>> ifconfig lan1 210.8.xxx.xxx netmask 255.255.255.0 metric 1 mtu 1454
>> inetcfg -s mtudiscover 0
>
>I have mtu settings on a separate line as a bug in TCP/IP v4.21 doesn't
>allow it to happen in 1 line like you have suggested :(

I suspected that would only work in TCP/IP v4.3 but wasnt sure.

>Every PC has its MTU=1492, well almost, see later.

>> MTU is the "Mean Transmission Unit".
>Amazing explaination of MTU:- you'd make a good teacher Ian.

Only when I've got the time :)

>> Be aware that if you have even one machine with a smaller MTU set
>> that the others (or the firewall), the MTU value on the internal firewall
>> interface will drop DOWN in value, meaning your pipe just got smaller,
>> and the larger packets on the external interface will nolonger be able
>> to get through without corruptions, as the MTU value on the external
>> interface will remain as it was set.
>
>I thought this was the function of fragment=yes in gateway.cf?

IJFW gets its values from the interfaces, otherwise it would
be chaos, I believe that setting it in gateway.cf is primarily to
drop the MTU value lower, incase of a different MTU value
between internal and external networks, I've found it easier
to just comment it out, and run everything as standard in the
various PC's setup.cmd files.

>So if fragment=yes, differing intranet/Internet MTU should still work,
>albeit not as well as having it tuned correctly for Internet > internet
>MTU.
>Is this correct?

No, it will one way, but not the other way, it, large pipe in, to small pipe
out, cant fit the rod down the pipe :-(

>********************************************************************
>> With TCP/IP v4.3, or v4.31, setting the MTU to no discovery doesnt
>> work, the interface MTU drops in value anyway, so its very important
>> that you have nothing that will lower the MTU value, if you do, set
>> all MTU values to this lower figure.
>
>OK, this sounds like a bug with TCP/IP v4.3, but I'm using v4.21.
>I still have some intranet hosts set to 1454, rather than 1492.

change the hosts with 1454 to 1492, or change everything else to
1454, I'd stick with 1492 everywere.

>How could I check the gateway intranet interface hasn't dropped MTU:-
>netstat -n     ?

Yes

>I run the text interface:- GUIs are for girls & people who want to waste
>time, :)

You should be fine then, you will find all bottlenecks will be elsewere
in the ADSL network a lot more that with your firewall.

>********************************************************************
>> >Correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine 1500 bit packets go up to the
>> >ADSL bridge, even though the data payload can only be 1492, meaning I
>> >shouldn't force the ADSL ethernet interface to MTU=1492.
>> 
>> If all your MTU values are lower than the ADSL bridge, that should
>> be ok, MTU is your hose, the MTU settings you are using are effectively
>> the packet size, (transmission unit) allowed through the hose, or the hose
>> diameter.

>Ian, (respectfully), I don't think you know how PPPoE works.
>You mentioned, you don't have any DSL equipment yet, I do, so I've got
>1st hand experience.
>Please correct me if you see flaws in my thinking below!

Hey, ADSL is all new to me but once it hits your firewall,
there should be common ground, I hope, if not, hopefully I
will learn for when I do it myself :)

>IJF with the PPPoE plugin creates a virtual ppp0 interface to the ADSL
>bridge with a maximum MTU of 1492.
>There is a real, physical, ethernet interface to the ADSL modem/bridge,
>sending MTU=1500 packets with an 8 byte PPPoE overhead/packet.

I would ignore the physical side, and stick with 1492, though in reading
what you have put above, you have me wondering if indeed your
external interface should me 1500, and your internal interface should
be 1492, ummm, Bjarn, anyone ? :)

>********************************************************************
>Thanks Ian, putting the inetcfg stuff last, do you think it makes a
>difference?
>What is your thinking here, is this the way it would be done on a *nix
>box?

Sometimes the settings are changed in TCP/IP v4.0 & 4.1, not sure about
TCP/IP v4.2x, it seems to be fine putting them up the top in
TCP/IP v4.3 though, I've had a good mess around with this.

ie, you can set  inetcfg -s mtudiscover 0 at the
top, then once setup.cmd has finished running, and
you go to a prompt and type

inetcfg -g mtudiscover

its back on 1 !!!  and there are no other MTU settings to change it back in any
of the TCP/IP startup files.


Put the statement at the bottom of the file, OR in tcpexit.cmd, and it works fine.


>I checked my gateway with:
>inetcfg -g all
>
>Looking at \mptn\etc\inetcfg.ini, looks like that set from setup.cmd.

Great.

>fragment=yes
>;MTU=1454 
>
>OK, will try, even though the InJoy PPPoE docs say otherwise, :)

If you leave it at 1454, make all your other internal PC's use
the same MTU, not larger values. The manual could be correct
here, as the ADSL-PRO I've applied for doesnt use PPPoE.

Cheers
Ian B Manners
http://www.os2site dot com/

By the time this message gets back on topic, WE'LL ALL BE DEAD!

4==============================================

From: <djnatpeninsula.hotkey dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Won't install: Latest NS and PMView was: June, 2001 refresh of Netscape 4.61
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:17:21 -1000

On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:40:16 +1000 (EST), Robert Traynor  (BobT) wrote:

>Hi,
>I hope you have better luck with "Wps Backup" than I have.
>It bombs out on my system and is useless.
>
>Wps Backup is very old and has not been updated at all and will probably
>never be updated.
>I have deleted it long ago from my hard disk.
>
>On hobbes as:-
>----------------------------------------------------------
>wpsbk401.zip 
>                 
>WPS Backup v4.01, save/restore Workplace Shell desktop
>1995/06/26     Compressed archive, 317.46Kb 
>----------------------------------------------------------
>I use Object Desktop v2.0 for Rexx file creation purposes.
>It works ok so long as NO folder or object name has "&" in its title.
>
>Regards,
>BobT.
>
>
>On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:16:53 +1000, Ed Durrant wrote:
>
>> Hi John,
>>   If you search Hobbes I think you'll find a package called wpsbkup (or
>> something like that). You can run this and it creates a text file of all objects
>> on your system. If you look through this text file, you should be able to
>> find the offending object and get some idea where it it. Have you checked
>> the maintenance desktop and if you've installed over the top, there will
>> be an object called previous desktop, either of these could contain the
>> object.
>> 
>> Cheers/2
>> Ed.
>> 
>> John Angelico wrote:
>> 
>> > On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:43:37 +1000, Ed Durrant wrote:
>> >
>> > ><NS_FOLDER> is almost certainly the Folder object for Netscape.
>> > >
>> > >Somewhere in your system this object exists and is probably
>> > >somehow marked as non-deletable.
>> > >
>> > >If the install procedure uses Rexx, you could simply go in and change
>> > >the object name to something different but this could cause problems
>> > >later when either this or a later install was looking to put other
>> > >objects
>> > >in it. It's a couple (probably closer to 6 or 7) years since I played
>> > >around in this area of REXX and Desktop but I'm pretty sure RXUTILS.DLL
>> > >will have a call in it, to let you track down the "rougue" <NS_FOLDER>
>> > >if you're not afraid of coding a few lines in REXX.
>> > >
>> > >Cheers/2
>> > >Ed.
>> > >
>> > and Bob Traynor wrote:
>> >
>> > >Have a look in your folders on the desktop for any other, originally
>> > >installed, netscape folders that may have been dragged off the
>> > >desktop and into a sub folder.
>> > >
>> > >From the command line zip up the folder (if you found it)
>> > >and move the file elsewhere as a backup.
>> > >
>> > >Also, backup the whole desktop etc. I assume you still use Deskbak.
>> > >
>> > >Then delete the Netscape folder. [Do NOT un-install.!]
>> >
>> > I've finally got back to check out this problem.
>> >
>> > Here's the exact error message (found the Install Log, finally)
>> > 2001/07/10 15:10:47.12  EPFIE234: Cannot create the 'Netscape
>> > Communicator 4.61' object on the Workplace Shell.  The setup string
>> > parameter was 'OBJECTID=<NS46_FOLDER>;'.
>> >
>> > Never mind the slight difference in the name: I still haven't found
>> > any such folder to delete. :( The only one I found was an old
>> > Netscape 2 folder.
>> >
>> > So now I am still lost.
>> >
>> > Where would one find a useful explanation ofthe error code EPFIE234?
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> > John Angelico
>> > OS/2 SIG
>> > talldadatmelbpc dot org dot au or talldadatkepl dot com dot au
>> > --------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
>> > ... Do not disturb. Already disturbed enough.
>> >
>> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ,-._|\       Robert Traynor        (BobT)
> /  Oz  \      email            rtraynoratnetstra dot com dot au
> \_,--.x/ 
>
>
>
>
Have you tried cleaning up the ini files with inimaint or some other 
maintenance program.

The object could be a figment of the ini files imagination.

It's worth a try anyway

Regards 
Dennis.



5==============================================

From: "John Angelico" <talldadatkepl dot com dot au>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 19:40:53 +0900 (EST)
Subject: [os2genau] Melbourne PC OS/2 SIG Meeting 24th July

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	Do You feel as if other OS/2ers are passing you by?
	Are you worried about how you'll cope when eCS arrives?

In other words - are you a novice, looking for some help and
reassurance with OS/2 but can't seem to get the hang of those "techie
conversations"? Well, we have a program just for you!

Come to this month's OS/2 SIG meeting to pick up those ever-so-useful
facts and simple bits of knowledge that make all the difference.

Leave the image of a 90 lb weakling "newbie" behind you, and turn
yourself into a "power user" brimming with confidence and rippling
muscles!

	Dominate the technology!

	Take charge of your computer! 

	Exercise your full authority! 

Don't let an inanimate object defeat you - remember what the Geeks
told us: Knowledge is Power!! 

The first two of a series of workshop sessions on the Basics of OS/2
will be held on Tuesday the 24th at the MelbPC rooms commencing at
6:30pm and closing at 8:30pm.

Existing power users are also welcome to meet with Bob T and other
SIG members for specialist discussions in other parts of the
building.
 
Best regards
John Angelico
OS/2 SIG
talldadatmelbpc dot org dot au or 
talldadatkepl dot com dot au
---------------------


PMTagline v1.50 - Copyright, 1996-1997, Stephen Berg and John Angelico
.... OS/2: When only the best will do...

6==============================================

From: "Robert Traynor  (BobT)" <rtraynoratoptushome dot com dot au>
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 20:59:41 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Won't install: Latest NS and PMView was: June, 2001 refresh of Netscape 4.61

Way ahead of you Dennis.
Been there, done that.

BobT.


On Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:17:21 -1000, djnatpeninsula.hotkey dot net dot au wrote:

> Have you tried cleaning up the ini files with inimaint or some other 
> maintenance program.
> 
> The object could be a figment of the ini files imagination.
> 
> It's worth a try anyway
> 
> Regards 
> Dennis.

   ,-._|\       Robert Traynor        (BobT)
 /  Oz  \      email            rtraynoratnetstra dot com dot au
 \_,--.x/ 


