Archiving Software

[Allison]

>
>Subject: Archiving Software
>   From: M H Stein <dm561 at torfree.net>
>   Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:48:46 -0500
>     To: "'cctalk at classiccmp.org'" <cctalk at classiccmp.org>
>
>Well, that kind of misses the point of my original question. For a system-specific
>bootable disk, imaging is probably the only answer since if you can't boot your
>system you can't load the image into it (although Dave Dunfield has even done
>this for several systems by loading the bootstrap & system file via the monitor
>and console port). In the case of systems that can have both 5" and/or 8" FDDs,
>it probably makes sense to image the 5" version since it's probably easier to
>temporarily add a 5" drive to an 8" system than adding an 8" drive to the PC.

Each case is an individual when the following are true:

  *Hardsector or non PC producable media.

  * No monitor or front pannel to interact with.

An example is the NS* Horizon system.  The only rom is small and JUST 
enough to boot the OS.  The disk is hard sector.  Without one of the 
following as bootable, UCSD Psystem Pascal, NS*dos, CP/M for Horizon 
your dead.

The fix, one of several really.  You need about 1k  of eprom in the system
with a very basic monitor that allows setting memory moving blocks
of memory and the like.  the CPUB (STD NS* Z80 board) can be populated with
the bits needed to use a 2708.  Or if available a SBC880 (has ram and rom 
on it), Compupro CPUZ (with eprom installed). or use a Eprom/Rom card with
a monitor program installed to get software console.  The basic theme here
is being able communicate with the base hardware.  Having an IMSAI or 
ALTAIR front pannel machine works too.

>
>What I was looking for were answers to the following problems:
>
>1 - I have some hard-sectored disks for my Vector MZ; how do I archive those?

Serial port to the serial port of a emulator. 
Serial por tot PROCOMM on PC.
Once again if the machine is like the NS* you will have to use the native 
OS to write a program to upload sectors for assembly as an archive.
If the native OS is LIKE CP/M or similar with and editor, assembler and 
debugger your golden.

>2 - Assuming I do, how do I or you recreate them?

The reverse is harder and very system dependent. First you must have
enough rom with a program (See NS* case) to communicate at some level.
If you can do that it's possible to hand enter code to do whatever
is needed to assemble media.  Painful, you bet but I've done it.

>3 - I have a SSSD 8" CP/M Visicalc distribution disk; how do I send it to you in a 
>	way that you can re-create a 5" disk for your SystemX (especially if you only 
>	have one serial port)?

Procom or other terminal emulator and a CPM program called unload to 
make into an ASCII hexfile for upload and transport.   This assumes
you have a system that can actually read it.  If not it's just some
media and might as well be blank.

>4 - I have a version of Cromix+ for Cromemco on DSDD 8" disks, consisting
>	of one bootable disk and a tar file spanning three more disks; again,
>	what do I put on my site or email you so that you can install it on your
>	System 1 with only a 5" FDD?

See above cases.

>5 - And just to round out the list, I have a copy of Unix for the Cromemco, which
>	is on one bootable 5" disk and a tar file on a DC600 tape. What do I do
>	with that (serious replies only pls :)?

IF you do not have the system and drive that wrote that tape the usefulness
is seriously in doubt.  It really is close to finding a reel of magtape
on the side of the road maybe worse.  You MUST have the drive or one of 
the same type with similar interface or reading it may be just an exercise.

The bootable 5" disk  you boot it and  then write a utility to read it 
serially to another box (PC whatever).  The only one that can help is 
someone thats in the same space and with similar or same hardware.
IF the media matches hardware you have running another OS then sending
sectors via serial line is doable ad my even be easy depending on OS.

Systems like that you have to know it inside out and side ways.  Unless
some one can using a similar one write you disks all the code on the 
internet is mostly meaningless if you can not enter it somehow and 
execute it.

Generally speaking if I can talk to the hardware, and there is at
least one serial port the problem can be beaten but usualy as a 
one off case.

Best example I can give is years ago.  NEC PDA-80, one of 12 in the 
country and I had 4 of them, two were operable.  NO OS.  Front 
pannel machine with a disk controller for 5,25" floppy that with 
a few commands could read or write a sector of data to/from it's
buffer.  Task, put CP/M 2.2 up for the first time.  The only 
system available was intel MDS 8". Note this was before the PC 
had IBM on the front.  The transfer media was paper tape and 
ASR33 TTY!  A program was written and assembled on the MDS to
implement a simple bin loader, the loadeer was for hand entry
via the front pannel.  That loader read the first tape that 
had a hex loader to load the hex tape with CPM (6.5k of code!).
It took six tries to get the CP/M prompt for the first time and
two more  to get a floppy written with boot tracks.  Then I 
had to get, PIP, STAT, ED, DDT, ASM, LOAD and an improved BIOS
source transfered all as hex format paper tape. Pip was first
as it is a file transfer program.  It can be done, and it's 
not always easy.


Allison