Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 1732
From: Digest <deadmail>
To: "OS/2GenAu Digest"<deadmail>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2008 00:00:56 AET-10EDT,10,1,0,7200,4,1,0,7200,3600

**************************************************
Thursday 23 October 2008
 Number  1732
**************************************************

Subjects for today
 
1  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected : Nicholas Lysaght" <nicholasrf at gmail dot com>
2  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected : Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana dot org dot au>
3  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected : Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
4  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected : Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
5  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected : Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
6  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected : Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
7  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected : Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>

**= Email   1 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:26:53 +0800
From:  "Nicholas Lysaght" <nicholasrf at gmail dot com>
Subject:  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected

Hi Ed

On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>wrote:

> Ed Durrant wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>  I just thought I'd try something different and it appears to have worked
>> first time !
>>
>>  I bought an IDE to CF socket adapter:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=290265650782
>>
>> and a cheap 2GB Compact Flash card:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220291877270
>>
>>  Put the card in the reader, shut down and took the PC apart and plugged
>> the card and adapter directly into the EIDE cable socket on the motherboard,
>> put the side back on the PC and powered up. The BIOS spotted and accepted
>> the new 2GB harddisk without issues except I had to correct the boot
>> sequence as by default it wanted to boot from this (no OS installed) drive
>> rather than my normal SATA one.
>>
>> From eComStation 2.0 RC3 ran LVMGUI which accepted the drive also as valid
>> created a bootable volume which was automatically added to the boot manager
>> menu and after exiting LVM formatted the drive as JFS - all without issues.
>>
>> Next step in to install eComStation to the drive.
>
>
How did you go with this? Were there problems? Shouldn't be.

>
>>
>> Why do this ? Well using what is effectively a VERY cheap Solid State Disk
>> (the Compact flash cards are parallel interfaced not serial like other
>> memory cards) that can run the system (and possibly a future system for the
>> lounge) quietly and with less power consumption that a normal harddisk. The
>> cheap card I bought is supposed to have a 15MB/s data transfer rate (DFSee
>> reports only 3.8 MB/s) which is not as fast as SATA data transfer however
>> there is no wait for spin up or for the data to come around, so if I were to
>> buy a better quality, faster CF card, (The adapter I bought can take two
>> cards) it could operate almost as fast as a mechanical hard disk.
>>
>> This will never be a solution for high volumes of data storage, but it
>> seems like an interesting option for very small form factor lounge PCs.
>
>
Sticking my nose in as always, but.....Imagine if you had a box which may be
eCs compatible, but had only Windows on it. If the BIOS was able to pick up
the CF Flash Card, would it be possible to install eCs on this card keeping
the previous Windows install on the other drive as untouched and intact as
possible? Only problem I can see (and I'm thinking while typing) is that
both OS's would have to use BM to install, but other than that?

Just a thought. :-)

Regards

NICK

>
>>
>> Cheers/2
>>
>> Ed.
>>
>
>>
>> 
>
>>
>>
>

> 

>

[attachments have been removed]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   2 ==========================**

Date:  Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:35:01 +1100
From:  Andrew MacIntyre <andymac at bullseye.apana dot org dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected

Ed Durrant wrote:
>>  I bought an IDE to CF socket adapter:
>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=290265650782 
>>
>>
>> and a cheap 2GB Compact Flash card:
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220291877270
>>
>>  Put the card in the reader, shut down and took the PC apart and 
>> plugged the card and adapter directly into the EIDE cable socket on 
>> the motherboard, put the side back on the PC and powered up. The BIOS 
>> spotted and accepted the new 2GB harddisk without issues except I had 
>> to correct the boot sequence as by default it wanted to boot from this 
>> (no OS installed) drive rather than my normal SATA one.
>>
>> From eComStation 2.0 RC3 ran LVMGUI which accepted the drive also as 
>> valid created a bootable volume which was automatically added to the 
>> boot manager menu and after exiting LVM formatted the drive as JFS - 
>> all without issues.
>>
>> Next step in to install eComStation to the drive.
>>
>> Why do this ? Well using what is effectively a VERY cheap Solid State 
>> Disk (the Compact flash cards are parallel interfaced not serial like 
>> other memory cards) that can run the system (and possibly a future 
>> system for the lounge) quietly and with less power consumption that a 
>> normal harddisk. The cheap card I bought is supposed to have a 15MB/s 
>> data transfer rate (DFSee reports only 3.8 MB/s) which is not as fast 
>> as SATA data transfer however there is no wait for spin up or for the 
>> data to come around, so if I were to buy a better quality, faster CF 
>> card, (The adapter I bought can take two cards) it could operate 
>> almost as fast as a mechanical hard disk.
>>
>> This will never be a solution for high volumes of data storage, but it 
>> seems like an interesting option for very small form factor lounge PCs.

I have read, particularly with regards to the flash drives in the various
eee-pc type machines, that FAT file systems work much better than
advanced filesystems like NTFS, HPFS and JFS (though this is more of an
unknown) from a performance point of view.  The reduction in latency,
compared to standard hard drives, can be a particular win even with flash
that's slower overall than a HD.

I have recently acquired a SDHC to IDE adapter with the intent of trying 
to use it to get eCS onto my eee-pc 701, but haven't had time thus far to
start playing with it.

Cheers,
Andrew.

-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew I MacIntyre                     "These thoughts are mine alone..."
E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana dot org dot au  (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370
        andymac at pcug dot org dot au             (alt) |        Belconnen ACT 2616
Web:    http://www.andymac dot org/               |        Australia
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   3 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:38:07 +1100
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
Subject:  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected

Andrew MacIntyre wrote:
> Ed Durrant wrote:
>>>  I bought an IDE to CF socket adapter:
>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=290265650782 
>>>
>>>
>>> and a cheap 2GB Compact Flash card:
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220291877270
>>>
>>>  Put the card in the reader, shut down and took the PC apart and 
>>> plugged the card and adapter directly into the EIDE cable socket on 
>>> the motherboard, put the side back on the PC and powered up. The 
>>> BIOS spotted and accepted the new 2GB harddisk without issues except 
>>> I had to correct the boot sequence as by default it wanted to boot 
>>> from this (no OS installed) drive rather than my normal SATA one.
>>>
>>> From eComStation 2.0 RC3 ran LVMGUI which accepted the drive also as 
>>> valid created a bootable volume which was automatically added to the 
>>> boot manager menu and after exiting LVM formatted the drive as JFS - 
>>> all without issues.
>>>
>>> Next step in to install eComStation to the drive.
>>>
>>> Why do this ? Well using what is effectively a VERY cheap Solid 
>>> State Disk (the Compact flash cards are parallel interfaced not 
>>> serial like other memory cards) that can run the system (and 
>>> possibly a future system for the lounge) quietly and with less power 
>>> consumption that a normal harddisk. The cheap card I bought is 
>>> supposed to have a 15MB/s data transfer rate (DFSee reports only 3.8 
>>> MB/s) which is not as fast as SATA data transfer however there is no 
>>> wait for spin up or for the data to come around, so if I were to buy 
>>> a better quality, faster CF card, (The adapter I bought can take two 
>>> cards) it could operate almost as fast as a mechanical hard disk.
>>>
>>> This will never be a solution for high volumes of data storage, but 
>>> it seems like an interesting option for very small form factor 
>>> lounge PCs.
>
> I have read, particularly with regards to the flash drives in the various
> eee-pc type machines, that FAT file systems work much better than
> advanced filesystems like NTFS, HPFS and JFS (though this is more of an
> unknown) from a performance point of view.  The reduction in latency,
> compared to standard hard drives, can be a particular win even with flash
> that's slower overall than a HD.
>
> I have recently acquired a SDHC to IDE adapter with the intent of 
> trying to use it to get eCS onto my eee-pc 701, but haven't had time 
> thus far to
> start playing with it.
>
> Cheers,
> Andrew.
>
Hi Andrew,

   I'm interested why you have gone with the SDHC to IDE rather than 
simply using a USB card reader ? As you may know several of us have 
installed eCS to our EeePCs - if you look on Hobbes you'll find my 
write-up of how to create a bootable eCS 2.0 RC SD (or SDHC) card and 
use it to bppt the EeePC non destrucyvely. Others have also installed 
eCS to the internal SSD, I'm presently working on having a dual boot Wxp 
/ eCS image on my EeePC 701.

What would be good would be to get a mini-PCIe to Compact Flash adapter, 
to use the available in early models such as mine socket to add extra 
disk space.

Cheers/2

Ed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   4 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:43:09 +1100
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
Subject:  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected

Nicholas Lysaght wrote:
> Hi Ed
>
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 6:52 PM, Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>wrote:
>
>   
>> Ed Durrant wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  I just thought I'd try something different and it appears to have worked
>>> first time !
>>>
>>>  I bought an IDE to CF socket adapter:
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=290265650782
>>>
>>> and a cheap 2GB Compact Flash card:
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220291877270
>>>
>>>  Put the card in the reader, shut down and took the PC apart and plugged
>>> the card and adapter directly into the EIDE cable socket on the motherboard,
>>> put the side back on the PC and powered up. The BIOS spotted and accepted
>>> the new 2GB harddisk without issues except I had to correct the boot
>>> sequence as by default it wanted to boot from this (no OS installed) drive
>>> rather than my normal SATA one.
>>>
>>> From eComStation 2.0 RC3 ran LVMGUI which accepted the drive also as valid
>>> created a bootable volume which was automatically added to the boot manager
>>> menu and after exiting LVM formatted the drive as JFS - all without issues.
>>>
>>> Next step in to install eComStation to the drive.
>>>       
>>     
> How did you go with this? Were there problems? Shouldn't be.
>   
Fot got to this yet - perhaps at the weekend - but I don't expect any 
problems.
>   
>>> Why do this ? Well using what is effectively a VERY cheap Solid State Disk
>>> (the Compact flash cards are parallel interfaced not serial like other
>>> memory cards) that can run the system (and possibly a future system for the
>>> lounge) quietly and with less power consumption that a normal harddisk. The
>>> cheap card I bought is supposed to have a 15MB/s data transfer rate (DFSee
>>> reports only 3.8 MB/s) which is not as fast as SATA data transfer however
>>> there is no wait for spin up or for the data to come around, so if I were to
>>> buy a better quality, faster CF card, (The adapter I bought can take two
>>> cards) it could operate almost as fast as a mechanical hard disk.
>>>
>>> This will never be a solution for high volumes of data storage, but it
>>> seems like an interesting option for very small form factor lounge PCs.
>>>       
>>     
> Sticking my nose in as always, but.....Imagine if you had a box which may be
> eCs compatible, but had only Windows on it. If the BIOS was able to pick up
> the CF Flash Card, would it be possible to install eCs on this card keeping
> the previous Windows install on the other drive as untouched and intact as
> possible? Only problem I can see (and I'm thinking while typing) is that
> both OS's would have to use BM to install, but other than that?
>
>
> Just a thought. :-)
>
>   
As Boot manager works across drives - yes that would work - it really 
just a dual boot system with two drives. But unless there a reason that 
you absolutely cant change the windows config, the more normal approach 
would be to shrink the windows image (turn off the hibernate function 
first if its enabled) and install eCS to the newly freed space along 
with boot manager. This capability is included in the eCS 2.0 RC5 and 
some earlier install code.
> Regards
>
> NICK
>
>   
>>> Cheers/2
>>>
>>> Ed.
>>>
>>>       
Cheers/2
Ed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   5 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:47:27 +1100
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
Subject:  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected

Mike O'Connor wrote:
> Ed Durrant wrote:
>> Ed Durrant wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>  I just thought I'd try something different and it appears to have 
>>> worked first time !
>>>
>>>  I bought an IDE to CF socket adapter:
>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=290265650782 
>>>
>>>
>>> and a cheap 2GB Compact Flash card:
>>>
>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220291877270
>>>
>>>  Put the card in the reader, shut down and took the PC apart and 
>>> plugged the card and adapter directly into the EIDE cable socket on 
>>> the motherboard, put the side back on the PC and powered up. The 
>>> BIOS spotted and accepted the new 2GB harddisk without issues except 
>>> I had to correct the boot sequence as by default it wanted to boot 
>>> from this (no OS installed) drive rather than my normal SATA one.
>>>
>>> From eComStation 2.0 RC3 ran LVMGUI which accepted the drive also as 
>>> valid created a bootable volume which was automatically added to the 
>>> boot manager menu and after exiting LVM formatted the drive as JFS - 
>>> all without issues.
>>>
>>> Next step in to install eComStation to the drive.
>>>
>>> Why do this ? Well using what is effectively a VERY cheap Solid 
>>> State Disk (the Compact flash cards are parallel interfaced not 
>>> serial like other memory cards) that can run the system (and 
>>> possibly a future system for the lounge) quietly and with less power 
>>> consumption that a normal harddisk. The cheap card I bought is 
>>> supposed to have a 15MB/s data transfer rate (DFSee reports only 3.8 
>>> MB/s) which is not as fast as SATA data transfer however there is no 
>>> wait for spin up or for the data to come around, so if I were to buy 
>>> a better quality, faster CF card, (The adapter I bought can take two 
>>> cards) it could operate almost as fast as a mechanical hard disk.
>>>
>>> This will never be a solution for high volumes of data storage, but 
>>> it seems like an interesting option for very small form factor 
>>> lounge PCs.
>>>
>>> Cheers/2
>>>
>>> Ed.
> Hi Ed,
>
> Wasn't that the initial method that some of the guys used (but in a 
> laptop) to check out feasibility of booting eCS off flash-memory, on 
> the Booting-USB-wiki? ;-)
>
> Glad you got it working straight off! :-)
> What did it cost you with freight from HK?
>
> Regards,
> Mike
 
>
> 

>
I don't think Laptops have standard internal EIDE sockets and as this 
adapter stands vertically it wouldn't fit inside a laptop case but you 
could be right that something like this may have been used - perhaps 
hung on a cable or a PCMCIA model ?

Postage is shown in the eBay links I listed - no more expensive than 
ordering from within Oz.

Cheers/2

Ed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   6 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 23 Oct 2008 06:05:03 +1000
From:  Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected

Ed Durrant wrote:
> Mike O'Connor wrote:
>> Ed Durrant wrote:
>>> Ed Durrant wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  I just thought I'd try something different and it appears to have 
>>>> worked first time !
>>>>
>>>>  I bought an IDE to CF socket adapter:
>>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=290265650782 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> and a cheap 2GB Compact Flash card:
>>>>
>>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220291877270
>>>>
>>>>  Put the card in the reader, shut down and took the PC apart and 
>>>> plugged the card and adapter directly into the EIDE cable socket on 
>>>> the motherboard, put the side back on the PC and powered up. The 
>>>> BIOS spotted and accepted the new 2GB harddisk without issues 
>>>> except I had to correct the boot sequence as by default it wanted 
>>>> to boot from this (no OS installed) drive rather than my normal 
>>>> SATA one.
>>>>
>>>> From eComStation 2.0 RC3 ran LVMGUI which accepted the drive also 
>>>> as valid created a bootable volume which was automatically added to 
>>>> the boot manager menu and after exiting LVM formatted the drive as 
>>>> JFS - all without issues.
>>>>
>>>> Next step in to install eComStation to the drive.
>>>>
>>>> Why do this ? Well using what is effectively a VERY cheap Solid 
>>>> State Disk (the Compact flash cards are parallel interfaced not 
>>>> serial like other memory cards) that can run the system (and 
>>>> possibly a future system for the lounge) quietly and with less 
>>>> power consumption that a normal harddisk. The cheap card I bought 
>>>> is supposed to have a 15MB/s data transfer rate (DFSee reports only 
>>>> 3.8 MB/s) which is not as fast as SATA data transfer however there 
>>>> is no wait for spin up or for the data to come around, so if I were 
>>>> to buy a better quality, faster CF card, (The adapter I bought can 
>>>> take two cards) it could operate almost as fast as a mechanical 
>>>> hard disk.
>>>>
>>>> This will never be a solution for high volumes of data storage, but 
>>>> it seems like an interesting option for very small form factor 
>>>> lounge PCs.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers/2
>>>>
>>>> Ed.
>> Hi Ed,
>>
>> Wasn't that the initial method that some of the guys used (but in a 
>> laptop) to check out feasibility of booting eCS off flash-memory, on 
>> the Booting-USB-wiki? ;-)
>>
>> Glad you got it working straight off! :-)
>> What did it cost you with freight from HK?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mike
> I don't think Laptops have standard internal EIDE sockets and as this 
> adapter stands vertically it wouldn't fit inside a laptop case but you 
> could be right that something like this may have been used - perhaps 
> hung on a cable or a PCMCIA model ?
>
> Postage is shown in the eBay links I listed - no more expensive than 
> ordering from within Oz.
>
> Cheers/2 
Hi Ed,

I have considered getting stuff directly from the Orient in the past - 
but never got around to it. Good to know postage is that reasonable! :-)

I remember seeing an image of a CF disk fitted - looked as though it was 
horizontal (parallel to base) - laptops have 44-pin connectors as that 
includes the 4 power pins in the bay, yours is a standard 40-pin adapter.

Regards,
Mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   7 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:51:22 +1100
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at durrant dot mine dot nu>
Subject:  Re:  Compact Flash as internal disk - corrected

Mike O'Connor wrote:
> Ed Durrant wrote:
>> Mike O'Connor wrote:
>>> Ed Durrant wrote:
>>>> Ed Durrant wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I just thought I'd try something different and it appears to have 
>>>>> worked first time !
>>>>>
>>>>>  I bought an IDE to CF socket adapter:
>>>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=290265650782 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> and a cheap 2GB Compact Flash card:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://cgi.ebay dot com dot au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220291877270
>>>>>
>>>>>  Put the card in the reader, shut down and took the PC apart and 
>>>>> plugged the card and adapter directly into the EIDE cable socket 
>>>>> on the motherboard, put the side back on the PC and powered up. 
>>>>> The BIOS spotted and accepted the new 2GB harddisk without issues 
>>>>> except I had to correct the boot sequence as by default it wanted 
>>>>> to boot from this (no OS installed) drive rather than my normal 
>>>>> SATA one.
>>>>>
>>>>> From eComStation 2.0 RC3 ran LVMGUI which accepted the drive also 
>>>>> as valid created a bootable volume which was automatically added 
>>>>> to the boot manager menu and after exiting LVM formatted the drive 
>>>>> as JFS - all without issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next step in to install eComStation to the drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do this ? Well using what is effectively a VERY cheap Solid 
>>>>> State Disk (the Compact flash cards are parallel interfaced not 
>>>>> serial like other memory cards) that can run the system (and 
>>>>> possibly a future system for the lounge) quietly and with less 
>>>>> power consumption that a normal harddisk. The cheap card I bought 
>>>>> is supposed to have a 15MB/s data transfer rate (DFSee reports 
>>>>> only 3.8 MB/s) which is not as fast as SATA data transfer however 
>>>>> there is no wait for spin up or for the data to come around, so if 
>>>>> I were to buy a better quality, faster CF card, (The adapter I 
>>>>> bought can take two cards) it could operate almost as fast as a 
>>>>> mechanical hard disk.
>>>>>
>>>>> This will never be a solution for high volumes of data storage, 
>>>>> but it seems like an interesting option for very small form factor 
>>>>> lounge PCs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers/2
>>>>>
>>>>> Ed.
>>> Hi Ed,
>>>
>>> Wasn't that the initial method that some of the guys used (but in a 
>>> laptop) to check out feasibility of booting eCS off flash-memory, on 
>>> the Booting-USB-wiki? ;-)
>>>
>>> Glad you got it working straight off! :-)
>>> What did it cost you with freight from HK?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mike
>> I don't think Laptops have standard internal EIDE sockets and as this 
>> adapter stands vertically it wouldn't fit inside a laptop case but 
>> you could be right that something like this may have been used - 
>> perhaps hung on a cable or a PCMCIA model ?
>>
>> Postage is shown in the eBay links I listed - no more expensive than 
>> ordering from within Oz.
>>
>> Cheers/2 
> Hi Ed,
>
> I have considered getting stuff directly from the Orient in the past - 
> but never got around to it. Good to know postage is that reasonable! :-)
>
> I remember seeing an image of a CF disk fitted - looked as though it 
> was horizontal (parallel to base) - laptops have 44-pin connectors as 
> that includes the 4 power pins in the bay, yours is a standard 40-pin 
> adapter.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
 
>
> 

>
OK, yes I've seen those as well - you take out the 2.5" harddisk and 
this replaces it.

Cheers/2

Ed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------