Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 1551
From: Digest <deadmail>
To: "OS/2GenAu Digest"<deadmail>
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:01:32 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600

**************************************************
Friday 14 September 2007
 Number  1551
**************************************************

Subjects for today
 
1  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
2  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
3  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
4  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
5  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
6  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
7  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
8  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
9  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
10  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
11  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
12  Re:  Clock problems : Alan Duval <amoht at westnet dot com dot au>
13  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Chris Graham [WarpSpeed]" <chrisg at warpspeed dot com dot au>
14  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems) : Chris Graham [WarpSpeed]" <chrisg at warpspeed dot com dot au>

**= Email   1 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:20:22 +1000
From:  Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

Peter L Allen wrote:
>> HOBART(all TAS) {SET TZ=AEST-10AEDT}
>>
>> Peter Allen - maybe you could update the Tasmanian
>> Start/Finish dates for DST - I know if starts earlier, but
>> unsure about the extension on finish date - compared
>> to the mainland!
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> Server: time.nist.gov                 ; NCAR, Boulder, Colorado
>> Add-to-GMT:600
>> DST:1
>> DST-Start:10 -1
>> DST-End:3 -1
>> Period: 0
>> Verbose: 1
>>     
> Ugh - err?  that's me!  Yew tawkin to me? 
>
> Mike,
> 	TAS starts first Sun Oct, Vic, NSW and ACT have got with the program re 
> ending last Sun Mar.
> 	So the TAS settings would be ????
>
> DST-Start:10 1
> DST-End:3 -1
>   
Yes, that would be correct! Thanks
> I'll play with it tomorrow - actually time868 which I've used for some years seemed to 
> break quite a while back. Naturally I'd done nothing about this!
>
>   
Actually the problem with Time868(F) is that it won't allow use of 
mnemonics longer than 3-characters so you can't have in your config.sys, 
"SET TZ=AEST-10AEDT" etc. I got in contact with an Oregon resident who 
lives within a couple of hours drive of Norbert Dey, the author, but he 
didn't have any success in contacting Norbert, to request an update to 
1) allow the more definitive 4-character locations, and 2) to update the 
program's inbuilt defaults for zones that now have changed their periods 
of DST.
> A little OT, but the best clock around here is in a Sharp microwave - was set at end of 
> DST, checked it tonight against the GPS - after 6 months, 3 secs out.
> Why are PC's such lousey time keepers? More like 3 sec/day!
>   
"Cheap as chips"(non-computer flavour!) components [built down to a price!]

BTW - I still have a 1983 Japanese PC (Panafacom DUET II - real 8086 - 
not 8088) which has a Dallas clock chip and that had maintained time 
correct to a second after being powered off for over 5 years! It was 
also very advanced with 640 * 400 16 (good!) colour display - 3 graphic 
planes, plus one could scroll text output over the graphics planes 
transparently - when switching modes it cleared the video memory first - 
so never saw any of the "Garbage characters" that were always evident on 
IBM-or-compatible-PCs when doing that operation! It also had an 
extension box that allowed for 4 hard-disks (5-10MB), and also running 
under a Motorola 68000, which one could toggle on/off with a DIP-switch 
on the rear of the unit, whilst powered-off. Similarly another 
dip-switch allowed to BOOT the computer in Debug-mode (it had a hardware 
debugger built into ROM) pre-initialize registers, memory locations in 
HEX, then continue to an otherwise normal boot! In normal mode running 
something like Lotus 123 for example, or one's own assembler programs, 
using a 3-key-combo one could drop into the hardware debugger, and 
examine and modify registers and memory locations [e.g. 
buffers,variables, constants], set breakpoints, execute blocks of code 
etc., then resume the paused running program! And, because it had a 
metal case, with a completely shielded internal metal case, unlike an 
IBM-PC (which would be completely screwed), one could operate an 
electric cattle-prod two feet away from it without any effects on the 
computer!
> 		Regards & thanks to all for the input re routers etal,
>
>   
BTW from some recent reading GPS units are NOT that accurate always!

Regards,
Mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   2 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:28:40 +1000
From:  Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

Mike O'Connor wrote:

<SNIPPED>
> {Initial (default) values in settime.ini are as follows:}
>
> ___________(basically for built-in US defaults!)_______________
>
> Server: time.nist.gov                 ; NCAR, Boulder, Colorado
> Add-to-GMT:
> DST:
> DST-Start:
> DST-End:
> Period: 1
> Verbose: 1
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Following are correctly configured values for all States/Territories in
> Australia.
>
> All set to synch just once per day (Period:0) and display: program
> signature,
> one line for each update event + fatal errors + protocol details 
> (Verbose:1)
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> BRISBANE (all QLD) {SET TZ = AEST}
> ________________________________________________
>
> Server: time.nist.gov                 ; NCAR, Boulder, Colorado
> Add-to-GMT:600
> DST:0
> DST-Start:10 -1
> DST-End:3 -1
> Period: 0
> Verbose: 1
<SNIPPED>

Addendum,

As the gateway servers at NIST can be very busy - ( had an e-mail 
conversation with the division chief there) a better choice of default 
server is time-a.nist.gov, which I have successfully used here for years.

Mike
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**= Email   3 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:30:51 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

<quote who="Mike O'Connor">

> As the gateway servers at NIST can be very busy - ( had an e-mail
> conversation with the division chief there) a better choice of default
> server is time-a.nist.gov, which I have successfully used here for years.

ahmmm, isn't it better to use down under servers...?
I do

-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   4 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:40:37 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

<quote who="Mike O'Connor">

> BTW from some recent reading GPS units are NOT that accurate always!

I ocassionally use cotoGPS to sync my Palm, never seen problems
and, never really got lost....

Palm T3 is rather acurate, with or without sync;
Palm TX most certainly is **not**, needs time correction all the time,
daily if not more often

but, fwiw, my Motorola phone seems to get time from the network,
also, my Telstra cordless does get time from the network;

and, about time that was done that way...

coming back to PC time sync:

my former OS/2 web server was time syncing from adelaide uni server, then,
serving time on the LAN,

some years ago, one day something really starnage happened, it seemed
adelaide server went off time, and, all my LAN was about 4 hours out

-- 
Voytek

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**= Email   5 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:06:51 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

ok, out of curiosity, I've looked at my home PC clock records:

since May 2005 till now, it referenced it's clock 352 times;

on 102 ocassions, PC clock was identical;
22 times it was -1
133 it was +1

so most of time it's reasonably accurate, EXCEPT, wow, look at the error
here, nearly 1 hour out:

0[roman][E:\]grep (-35 clock.log
time set from augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au: (-3579) Sun Mar 25 06:08:11
2007

0[roman][E:\]grep (+36 clock.log
time set from augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au: (+3615) Tue Nov  8 23:38:42
2005
time set from augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au: (+3607) Tue Oct 31 09:53:43
2006

0[roman][E:\]wc clock.log
    352    3233   25681 clock.log
0[roman][E:\]grep (+0) clock.log | wc
    102     918    7901
0[roman][E:\]grep (+1) clock.log | wc
    133    1197    9310
0[roman][E:\]grep (+2) clock.log | wc
     36     360    2736
0[roman][E:\]grep (+3) clock.log | wc
      4      40     304

-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   6 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:10:25 +1000
From:  Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

Voytek Eymont wrote:
> <quote who="Mike O'Connor">
>
>   
>> As the gateway servers at NIST can be very busy - ( had an e-mail
>> conversation with the division chief there) a better choice of default
>> server is time-a.nist.gov, which I have successfully used here for years.
>>     
>
> ahmmm, isn't it better to use down under servers...?
> I do
>
>   
Hi Voytek,

I used to try and get synched with either U. of Newcastle or U. of 
Adelaide - gave up in disgust because of the number of time-outs!
My latency with the NIST servers is about 0.125 seconds - perfectly 
adequate - and considering they are the people who power the continuous 
WWV and WWV-H radio time broadcasts on short-wave!

Regards,
Mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   7 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:18:10 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

<quote who="Mike O'Connor">

> I used to try and get synched with either U. of Newcastle or U. of
> Adelaide - gave up in disgust because of the number of time-outs!
> My latency with the NIST servers is about 0.125 seconds - perfectly
> adequate - and considering they are the people who power the continuous WWV
> and WWV-H radio time broadcasts on short-wave!

I had 10 timeouts since 2005, I can live with that

more often than not, on windoze XP built in time sync, I see lot of
problem attempting to time sync with nist

but, it's most likely windoze, and not nist

0[roman][E:\]grep timeou clock.log | wc
     10      70     440

-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   8 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:19:29 +1000
From:  Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

Voytek Eymont wrote:
> <quote who="Mike O'Connor">
>
>   
>> BTW from some recent reading GPS units are NOT that accurate always!
>>     
>
> I ocassionally use cotoGPS to sync my Palm, never seen problems
> and, never really got lost....
>
> Palm T3 is rather acurate, with or without sync;
> Palm TX most certainly is **not**, needs time correction all the time,
> daily if not more often
>
>
> but, fwiw, my Motorola phone seems to get time from the network,
> also, my Telstra cordless does get time from the network;
>
> and, about time that was done that way...
>
> coming back to PC time sync:
>
> my former OS/2 web server was time syncing from adelaide uni server, then,
> serving time on the LAN,
>
> some years ago, one day something really starnage happened, it seemed
> adelaide server went off time, and, all my LAN was about 4 hours out
>
>
>
>   
Hi Voytek,

Last year I finally upgraded my [alkaline battery (under!) powered] Palm 
III (monochrome) to a Palm Tungsten E2 (nice colour screen!), which has 
a long-lasting Lithium-Ion battery. :-)
It seems to keep _very_ accurate time - I don't bother connecting via 
Bluetooth to my Motorola RAZR V3x - I occasionally sync it to the PC 
(data-wise) under W2K Pro.

The very high-end GPS units are good, but as in most commercial things - 
lots of the cheaper ones [non-lab-quality] use cheap components and are 
nothing like as accurate - I read a series of responses linked to an 
article on one of the tech sites about their accuracy - probably off 
TechWeb or ExtremeTech.

Regards,
Mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   9 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:24:33 +1000
From:  Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

Voytek Eymont wrote:
> ok, out of curiosity, I've looked at my home PC clock records:
>
> since May 2005 till now, it referenced it's clock 352 times;
>
> on 102 ocassions, PC clock was identical;
> 22 times it was -1
> 133 it was +1
>
> so most of time it's reasonably accurate, EXCEPT, wow, look at the error
> here, nearly 1 hour out:
>
> 0[roman][E:\]grep (-35 clock.log
> time set from augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au: (-3579) Sun Mar 25 06:08:11
> 2007
>
> 0[roman][E:\]grep (+36 clock.log
> time set from augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au: (+3615) Tue Nov  8 23:38:42
> 2005
> time set from augean.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au: (+3607) Tue Oct 31 09:53:43
> 2006
>
>
> 0[roman][E:\]wc clock.log
>     352    3233   25681 clock.log
> 0[roman][E:\]grep (+0) clock.log | wc
>     102     918    7901
> 0[roman][E:\]grep (+1) clock.log | wc
>     133    1197    9310
> 0[roman][E:\]grep (+2) clock.log | wc
>      36     360    2736
> 0[roman][E:\]grep (+3) clock.log | wc
>       4      40     304
Hi Voytek,

Wasn't that March 25th item possibly coincident with the end of Daylight 
Saving time?

Regards,
Mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   10 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:34:42 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

<quote who="Mike O'Connor">

> Last year I finally upgraded my [alkaline battery (under!) powered] Palm
> III (monochrome) to a Palm Tungsten E2 (nice colour screen!), which has
> a long-lasting Lithium-Ion battery. :-) It seems to keep _very_ accurate
> time - I don't bother connecting via Bluetooth to my Motorola RAZR V3x - I
> occasionally sync it to the PC (data-wise) under W2K Pro.

Mike,

after I got hit $$$$outreagous$$$ for emailing 220k (it took about 2
minutes and cost $15!!) I've decided to buy a 'data pack' from Telstra;

it still is rather outreagous $5 for 1M, but, I'm quite happy with it;

no, you can not do much WWW with 1MB, BUT, small Palm screen (let alone
GPS screen) isn't that good for WWW

BUT, the 1MB/month means *if* I need it, I can get and send email, so I
figured it's worth $5/month for that.

cple month my buddy told me he bought a Moto L2 phone WITH BT headset for
$99, as I needed a hands free, I figured that sounds OK, so, bought same
phone, very happy with it, Palm plays nice with it:

SMS send/receive from Palm;
email s/r from Palm;
Palm address book, select entry on palm, select dial, pick up phone and
say 'hello'

-- 
Voytek

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   11 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:09:28 +1000
From:  Mike O'Connor <mikeoc at internode.on dot net>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

Voytek Eymont wrote:
> <quote who="Mike O'Connor">
>
>   
>> Last year I finally upgraded my [alkaline battery (under!) powered] Palm
>> III (monochrome) to a Palm Tungsten E2 (nice colour screen!), which has
>> a long-lasting Lithium-Ion battery. :-) It seems to keep _very_ accurate
>> time - I don't bother connecting via Bluetooth to my Motorola RAZR V3x - I
>> occasionally sync it to the PC (data-wise) under W2K Pro.
>>     
>
> Mike,
>
> after I got hit $$$$outreagous$$$ for emailing 220k (it took about 2
> minutes and cost $15!!) I've decided to buy a 'data pack' from Telstra;
>
> it still is rather outreagous $5 for 1M, but, I'm quite happy with it;
>
> no, you can not do much WWW with 1MB, BUT, small Palm screen (let alone
> GPS screen) isn't that good for WWW
>
> BUT, the 1MB/month means *if* I need it, I can get and send email, so I
> figured it's worth $5/month for that.
>
> cple month my buddy told me he bought a Moto L2 phone WITH BT headset for
> $99, as I needed a hands free, I figured that sounds OK, so, bought same
> phone, very happy with it, Palm plays nice with it:
>
> SMS send/receive from Palm;
> email s/r from Palm;
> Palm address book, select entry on palm, select dial, pick up phone and
> say 'hello'
>   
Hi Voytek,

Yep - pretty neat - I am currently paying Telstra for my landline and 
mobile[$20/month post-paid] on a single bill, in addition to 10GB/month 
ADSL access (all outbound data free) from Internode (capped to 1536/256 
Kbps due to Telstra DSLAM via RIM), an average total of ~$110/month. 
Optusnet infrastructure at this time doesn't extend to here in Tweed 
Heads South, otherwise I'd switch and get the same service that a friend 
of mine in Brisbane has now signed up for - he gets ADSL2+ [8-20Mbps 
depending on distance], plus all local and National calls capped to a 
total of $69/month (free mobile calls to other Optusnet customers), 
along with preferential international call rates, and has just been 
advised that as he's also on an Age pension that they've now given him a 
$10/month rebate - so just $59 per month inclusive - no additional 
charges for anything in excess of his 2GB quota - just traffic shaping 
at 64Kbps!

Have a good day!

Regards,
Mike
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   12 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:06:35 +1100
From:  Alan Duval <amoht at westnet dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Clock problems

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your help. I have followed Mike O'Connor's advice 
and installed SetTime2 and it is working well.
I have a suspicion that Ubuntu may have had something to do with my 
problem. I have it installed on a removable tray and I have only had 
problems since using it.

Regards,

Alan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   13 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:17:35 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Chris Graham [WarpSpeed]" <chrisg at warpspeed dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:40:10 +1000, Mike O'Connor wrote:

>Server: time.nist.gov                 ; NCAR, Boulder, Colorado
>Add-to-GMT:600
>DST:1

Er, DST is the number of minutes to add, so wouldn't that be 60?

-Chris

WarpSpeed Computers - The Graham Utilities for OS/2.
Voice:  +61-3-9395-1504   Internet:   chrisg at warpspeed dot com dot au
FAX:    +61-3-9395-7633   Web Page:   http://www.warpspeed dot com dot au
Postal: WarpSpeed Computers, PO Box 4293, Hoppers Crossing DC, VIC 3029, AUSTRALIA

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   14 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:18:52 +1000 (EST)
From:  "Chris Graham [WarpSpeed]" <chrisg at warpspeed dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  Configured SETTINGS for all of Australia for Settime2 (was Clock problems)

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:30:51 +1000 (EST), Voytek Eymont wrote:

>
><quote who="Mike O'Connor">
>
>> As the gateway servers at NIST can be very busy - ( had an e-mail
>> conversation with the division chief there) a better choice of default
>> server is time-a.nist.gov, which I have successfully used here for years.
>
>ahmmm, isn't it better to use down under servers...?
>I do

And they would be...???

-Chris

WarpSpeed Computers - The Graham Utilities for OS/2.
Voice:  +61-3-9395-1504   Internet:   chrisg at warpspeed dot com dot au
FAX:    +61-3-9395-7633   Web Page:   http://www.warpspeed dot com dot au
Postal: WarpSpeed Computers, PO Box 4293, Hoppers Crossing DC, VIC 3029, AUSTRALIA

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------