Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 1006
From: Digest <deadmail>
To: "OS/2GenAu Digest"<deadmail>
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:01:08 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600

**************************************************
Friday 17 December 2004
 Number  1006
**************************************************

Subjects for today
 
1  Re:  ECD's => MKISOFS images? : Chris_neeson <Chris_Neeson at compuserve dot com>
2  Re:  eCS and Linux : Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
3  Re:  ECD's => MKISOFS images? : Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
4   SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-  thunderbird attachments : Dennis.Nolan at defence.gov.au
5  Re:  eCS and Linux : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
6  Re:  eCS and Linux : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
7  Re:  eCS and Linux : Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
8  Re:  eCS and Linux : Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
9  Re:  eCS and Linux : brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au
10  Re:  eCS and Linux : Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
11  Re:  eCS and Linux : Bruce Rossi" <brossi at melbpc dot org dot au>
12  Re:  eCS and Linux : Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
13  Re:  eCS and Linux : Eric Schilke <freiherr at earthlink dot net>
14  Re:  eCS and Linux : Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
15  Re:  eCS and Linux : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
16   [Fwd: You'll love this] : Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
17   Boot Manager : Alan Duval" <amoht at ozemail dot com dot au>
18  Re:  eCS and Linux : Bruce Rossi" <brossi at melbpc dot org dot au>

**= Email   1 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 16 Dec 2004 09:08:06 -0500
From:  Chris_neeson <Chris_Neeson at compuserve dot com>
Subject:  Re:  ECD's => MKISOFS images?

Fair enough, Ed .

I'm about ready to start trying the OS/2 side again.

It was just frustrating that for DOS I could put an
ASPI ATAPI driver into the CONFIG and it would set
up an ASPI data structure,
BUT for OS/2 it was so unsimple I couldn't get it done.

Sounds like my first step is to extract the Help! file
and read it.

Regards
Chris

----------- Ed replied ------------

Chris, I cannot stress enough, how useful the help file that comes with
Chris
Wohlgemuth's Audio-CD_Creator / Data-CD-Creator is !  It guides you, step
by step,
through everything you need to install, giving references where to get the
various
components from and how to set them up. It explains the SCSI on IDE
simulation etc.

If you don't already have this package (which integrates CD Burning into
WPS folders),
I'd recomend getting it, just for the documentation.

Cheers/2

Ed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   2 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:37:43 +0800
From:  Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Hi Alan

I run IBM BootManager and I boot DR-DOS 7.03, WinXP, eCS 1.2 and I just 
upgraded my Linux to Mandrake 10.1 release today.  By telling Linux to 
put Lilo in the 1st sector of the Linux boot partition, you can add that 
Linux partition to BM.  On previous Linux installs that meant that when 
I selescted Linux from BM it simply took me to Lilo where I selected 
what Linux boot I wanted.  On this latest install it seems that Lilo has 
changed a little, so that selecting Linux from BM simply goes straight 
into booting the default Linux boot.  It's a good thing, until I want to 
boot to a Linux shell.  I guess I'll use one of my Linux live CDs 
(Knoppix or Mepis).  So I don't know what this talk of having to boot 
Linux from a floppy is.  You can of course put Lilo into the MBR and use 
it to boot all of your OSs instead of BM.  A reasonable suggestion, but 
I'm just hooked on BM coz I know it better.

Linux WILL boot from any partition on any physical disk anywhere!  That 
includes primary and logical partitions.  Linux gets it's own hard drive 
info during boot, and doesn't even rely on the BIOS settings.  Hence 
there are no concerns about the 1st 1024 cylinders (or should that be 
sectors?).  However, as I said in an earlier reply, I've never even had 
that problem with OS/2.  A boot loader like Lilo, or better still 
AIRboot, has its advantages, as you can have more OSs needing primary 
partitions to boot from.  Remember, limit of 4 primaries, and BM takes 1 
of them.

I have DOS and Win each on their own primary "C" partition (1 or other 
hidden at all times) on the 1st HDD, eCS on the last logical "G" 
partition on the 1st HDD and Linux boots from the 2nd logical partition 
on the 2nd HDD.  I have only logical partitions on the 2nd HDD - no 
primaries.  As Linux doesn't need a primary I didn't bother creating one.

So, doing what you want to do (below) shouldn't be any problem at all. 
Should be all straight forward, and the Linux partitions shouldn't 
"block from view" the partitions on your 3rd HDD.  The only problems I 
have ever encountered are ...

1.  The ext2 driver for OS/2 has proven VERY unstable to the point of
     unusable for me.  Although ext3 is only ext2 with journalling bolted
     on, the ext2 driver won't recognize ext3 partitions.
2.  JFS in eCS is NOT compatible with the open JFS in Linux.  Some read
     only ability, but don't try writing or you'll lose the lot.
3.  Getting HPFS support installed in Linux has thus far eluded me.

Have fun
Kev Downes

Alan Duval wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thanks for the advice re getting eCS to boot.
> After resizing partitions and  putting eCS below the 1024 barrier, then transferring all   data to my new hard 
> drive I have everything working again.
> 
> My 2nd HD is now empty. My 3rd HD is used for imaging and has logical partitions. 
> 
> ? Could I install Linux on the 2nd (slave) drive, or would that interfere with the logical partitions on the 3rd 
> drive. If it would interfere, could I move the 3rd drive to the 2nd drive position and the 2nd to the 3rd and 
> install Linux there.
> 
> ? How does one get around the Lilo / BM problem as I use BM to boot WIN95, PCDOS and eCS1.1. I believe 
> I could put Lilo at the start of the Linux partition and use a floppy to boot it but that seems a bit cumbersome.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Alan Duval
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   3 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:34:26 +1100
From:  Ed Durrant <edurrant at bigpond dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  ECD's => MKISOFS images?

My experience is follow the instructions and it is simple ..

I'll send you the help file off-list, it's not that big.

I can honestly recommend you install the complete package - it's one of those pieces
of OS/2 only software that take adavantage of the WPS in ways that you can't on
Windoze.

Cheers/2

Ed.

Chris_neeson wrote:

> Fair enough, Ed .
>
> I'm about ready to start trying the OS/2 side again.
>
> It was just frustrating that for DOS I could put an
> ASPI ATAPI driver into the CONFIG and it would set
> up an ASPI data structure,
> BUT for OS/2 it was so unsimple I couldn't get it done.
>
> Sounds like my first step is to extract the Help! file
> and read it.
>
> Regards
> Chris
>
> ----------- Ed replied ------------
>
> Chris, I cannot stress enough, how useful the help file that comes with
> Chris
> Wohlgemuth's Audio-CD_Creator / Data-CD-Creator is !  It guides you, step
> by step,
> through everything you need to install, giving references where to get the
> various
> components from and how to set them up. It explains the SCSI on IDE
> simulation etc.
>
> If you don't already have this package (which integrates CD Burning into
> WPS folders),
> I'd recomend getting it, just for the documentation.
>
> Cheers/2
>
> Ed.

>  
> ===========================================

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   4 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:15:10 +1000
From:  Dennis.Nolan at defence.gov.au
Subject:   SEC: UNCLASSIFIED:-  thunderbird attachments

Hi all

Does anyone know how to get Firefox to send jpeg files as attachments 
instead of embedding them into the message.

I sent some images to me at work because I need the files and now find 
that they are incorporated into the document and can't be detached.

Regards

Dennis.
 
Mr. Dennis J. Nolan
Repair & Maintenance

Contact Details:

        Workshop        03 5950 7484
        Fax             03 5950 7934

        Email:          dennis.nolan at defence.gov.au

IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence 
Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the 
Crimes Act 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are 
requested to contact the sender and delete the email.
[attachments have been removed]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   5 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:56:59 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Alan Duval said:

> ? Could I install Linux on the 2nd (slave) drive, or would that interfere
> with the logical partitions on the 3rd
> drive. If it would interfere, could I move the 3rd drive to the 2nd drive
> position and the 2nd to the 3rd and
> install Linux there.
>
> ? How does one get around the Lilo / BM problem as I use BM to boot WIN95,
> PCDOS and eCS1.1. I believe
> I could put Lilo at the start of the Linux partition and use a floppy to
> boot it but that seems a bit cumbersome.

Alan,

in my limited experience, last time I've done that (on a single 20GB IDE HD)

partition HD with LVM, including partitions for Linux
when installing Linux, install grub/lilo not in MBR, but, /dev/whatever
Linux partition

that worked for me with 98, OS/2 & RH;
BM lets you boot windoze, OS/2 or Linux

I think you can let Linux's grub/lilo to that, but, I've done it with BM

-- 
Voytek
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   6 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:04:33 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Kev said:
> Hi Alan

> "  The only problems I
> have ever encountered are ...
>
> 1.  The ext2 driver for OS/2 has proven VERY unstable to the point of
>      unusable for me.  Although ext3 is only ext2 with journalling bolted
>      on, the ext2 driver won't recognize ext3 partitions.
> 2.  JFS in eCS is NOT compatible with the open JFS in Linux.  Some read
>      only ability, but don't try writing or you'll lose the lot.
> 3.  Getting HPFS support installed in Linux has thus far eluded me.

Kev,

I've just installed RedHat on a SCSI hd1, the second SCSI hd2 is 4GB from
an OS/2 machine, JFS formatted;
after loading jfs support in Linux, I can mount the /dev/scb

at this time, I haven't seen any problems (though your post made me a
little concerned...)

are you having probs mounting Linux jfs from OS/2, or, OS/2 jfs from Linux ?

-- 
Voytek
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   7 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:27:48 +0800
From:  Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Voytek Eymont wrote:

> at this time, I haven't seen any problems (though your post made me a
> little concerned...)
> 
> are you having probs mounting Linux jfs from OS/2, or, OS/2 jfs from Linux ?

The latter.  I destroyed my OS/2 JFS data.  I had been warned that the 2 
JFSs were different, so I had backed up all the data fortunately.  I 
forget where, but I think it was in an eCS support list somewhere.

Make backups and have fun.  (Is that a new twist on "Live long and 
prosper."?)

Cheers
Kev
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   8 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:43:05 +0800
From:  Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Voytek Eymont wrote:

> Alan,
> 
> in my limited experience, last time I've done that (on a single 20GB IDE HD)
> 
> partition HD with LVM, including partitions for Linux
> when installing Linux, install grub/lilo not in MBR, but, /dev/whatever
> Linux partition
> 
> that worked for me with 98, OS/2 & RH;
> BM lets you boot windoze, OS/2 or Linux
> 
> I think you can let Linux's grub/lilo to that, but, I've done it with BM

Yes, you can use GRUB, Lilo, AIRboot, BM or any other boot loader you 
see fit to use.

Yes, that's a much more succinct way of saying what I said.  Use IBM's 
LVM to create the partitions.  If you use the Linux tool to do same 
that's OK, but you'll still have to go into LVM to remake/rename them 
for BM or OS/2 to make any sense of them.  This is exactly what I did 
yesterday.  By using LVM you get to supply all the drive letters you 
want in the order you want, so no matter what, with careful planning you 
can ensure that there are no drives sheltering any others from view. 
Akaik, OS/2 doesn't have any problems there.  Some early DOSs did.  They 
would identify all partitions up to the 1st one they didn't recognize, 
and stop there.  So if you had any FAT partitions beyong your 1st HPFS 
partition, DOS wouldn't find them.

What Voytek said above about GRUB and/or Lilo is also perfectly correct, 
and is the message I was trying to get across.  If you just want to make 
sure right from the word go, put all your Linux stuff on the farthest 
out physical and logical drives.  Moving physical drives won't effect 
OS/2 as YOU supply the drive letters, not the OS as in DOS/Windoze. 
While you're experimenting, why not use your whole last physical drive 
exclusively for Linux.  From memory that'd be the master on IDE2. 
(unless ofcourse you've set the CD as master and the HDD as slave. 
Doesn't matter which way, it'll still work just the same.)

Have fun and prosper
Kev
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   9 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 14:27:35 +1030
From:  brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Alan,
I have had Linux on a partition in the past.
You install LILO on the partition you install Linux on.
You add that partition to BM.
The BM boots LILO and LILO loads Linux.

-----------------------------------------
Brian Butler
System Administrator
brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au

                                                                                                                                    
                      "Alan Duval"                                                                                                  
                      <amoht at ozemail.co        To:       "os2genau at os2 dot org dot au" <os2genau at os2 dot org dot au>                                
                      m.au>                    cc:                                                                                  
                                               Subject:   eCS and Linux                                                   
                      16/12/2004 23:03                                                                                              
                      Please respond to                                                                                             
                      os2genau                                                                                                      

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the advice re getting eCS to boot.
After resizing partitions and  putting eCS below the 1024 barrier, then
transferring all   data to my new hard
drive I have everything working again.

My 2nd HD is now empty. My 3rd HD is used for imaging and has logical
partitions.

? Could I install Linux on the 2nd (slave) drive, or would that interfere
with the logical partitions on the 3rd
drive. If it would interfere, could I move the 3rd drive to the 2nd drive
position and the 2nd to the 3rd and
install Linux there.

? How does one get around the Lilo / BM problem as I use BM to boot WIN95,
PCDOS and eCS1.1. I believe
I could put Lilo at the start of the Linux partition and use a floppy to
boot it but that seems a bit cumbersome.

Regards

Alan Duval

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   10 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:01:21 +0800
From:  Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au wrote:
> Alan,
> I have had Linux on a partition in the past.
> You install LILO on the partition you install Linux on.
> You add that partition to BM.
> The BM boots LILO and LILO loads Linux.

I knew someone would work out how to say it clearly.  That's exactly right.

Cheers
Kev
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   11 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:02:25 +1100
From:  "Bruce Rossi" <brossi at melbpc dot org dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:43:05 +0800, Kev wrote:

>Yes, you can use GRUB, Lilo, AIRboot, BM or any other boot loader you 
>see fit to use.

As an aside, another boot manager is Smart Boot Manager (SBM), from the Linux camp.

It has the unique ability (AFAIK) to boot from CDROM if the BIOS does not support this.

It can also "swap partition IDs" (?) which apparently allows you to install an OS like windows 
onto a single HD, then put other HDs before it in the system and still boot the OS even though it 
is now not on the first partition on the first HD.

Cheers,

Bruce Rossi
Data To Documents
brucerSAFE at URLmelbpc dot org dot au (please remove capitals to reply)

There are 43 Processes with 167 Threads. This machine's uptime is 0d 4h 59m 20s 753ms.
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**= Email   12 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:11:33 +0800
From:  Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Bruce Rossi wrote:

> It can also "swap partition IDs" (?) which apparently allows you to install an OS like windows 
> onto a single HD, then put other HDs before it in the system and still boot the OS even though it 
> is now not on the first partition on the first HD.

I believe AIR boot can do this too.  With BM, it hides any spare C: 
partitions.  So if you look at my 1st HDD, the 1st primary is DOS (for 
my favourite old games), the 2nd primary is Windows, and they both 
require C: to boot.  So, even tho Windoze is on the 2nd partition, it 
still boots as tho it was on the 1st partition.

I wonder what would happen if I used LVM to create a partition "anywhere 
else" but named it "C".  Would DOS or Win still boot from it?  ie do 
they look for the 1st primary partition or do they look for C:?  One for 
another day!

Cheers
Kev
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   13 ==========================**

Date:  Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:33:47 -0600
From:  Eric Schilke <freiherr at earthlink dot net>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

On Thursday 16 December 2004 21:57, brianb at kdfisher dot com dot au wrote:
> I have had Linux on a partition in the past.
> You install LILO on the partition you install Linux on.
> You add that partition to BM.
> The BM boots LILO and LILO loads Linux.

Yes, that works.  I like BM for the manager.  But LiLO, or GRUB, is equally 
useful.  If you want to use BM, first create (in OS/2) a boot partition for 
Linux, about a megabyte or so.  Then add it to BM, specifying that it is 
bootable and installable. 

Then install Linux, wherever you want, but do an "advanced" install, and 
specify that /hd?/boot is the same partition that you designated before.  
Then, BM will see it, and you may proceed.

It's a whole lot easier to just let Linux do it's thing, installing LiLO or 
GRUB as it sees fit.  Every time I've done that, using SuSE, the Linux 
installer has recognized all the other partitions and operating systems, and 
given me the option to boot as I please.  (eCS,  Plan9, IBMDOS7, and a RedHat 
Linux partition.)

I think it might come down to a matter of esthetics.  They all work.  Umm.... 
I don't know anything at all about Windows.  If you have that parasite on 
your machine, I'd recommend that you write zero's to the disk before you 
proceed, and start from scratch.

-- 
Regards,
Eric Schilke

Copyright (C) 2004.  All Rights Reserved.

[attachments have been removed]
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**= Email   14 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:56:51 +0800
From:  Kev <kdownes at tpg dot com dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Eric Schilke wrote:
> I don't know anything at all about Windows.  If you have that parasite on=20
> your machine, I'd recommend that you write zero's to the disk before you=20
> proceed, and start from scratch.

It would great, except in my case other family members need it for 
compatibility with work, school etc.  Treat Wintendo as DOS - which, 
ofcourse it is!  Except for NT and XP - treat them as highly contageous!

Cheers
Kev

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   15 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 20:41:01 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

Eric Schilke said:

>
> It's a whole lot easier to just let Linux do it's thing, installing LiLO
> or
> GRUB as it sees fit.  Every time I've done that, using SuSE, the Linux
> installer has recognized all the other partitions and operating systems,
> and
> given me the option to boot as I please.  (eCS,  Plan9, IBMDOS7, and a
> RedHat
> Linux partition.)

just be carefull, and, do NOT do what I did...:

when RH install asked 'wipe all LINUX partion and install', I said 'yes',
and, did NOT look at what RedHat installer selected as 'all Linux
partitions'

after Linux was installed, I booted OS/2... and, was very surprise not fo
find my 4GB data partition.... all gone...

the data partition was jfs, and, got picked as part of 'wipe all Linux'

I could have been really upset at that point..... luckily, that system was
largely an xcopy of my old TP770 hard drive....

-- 
Voytek
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   16 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:25:39 +1100 (EST)
From:  "Voytek Eymont" <voytek at sbt dot net dot au>
Subject:   [Fwd: You'll love this]

just thought I'd share this:

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: You'll love this
Date:    Fri, December 17, 2004 9:29 pm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://unworkable dot org/diebold/  from France

> The old systems worked.  But they were boring.  People want FLASH!
>COLOR!  ExCiTeMenT! at their ATMs.  I guess.  So, they pull out

heh. Here in Brazil we have two lines of ATM. the "national" bank (banco
do brasil) uses OS2 and every atm has a camera, video, audio for blind
people and all that spiffy things. i've never seen a dead one.
The others use WinNT4  and use bitmap graphics to emulate ascii art! I'm
not kidding! ...Of those, i've seen hundreds of blue screens...

-- 
Voytek
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
**= Email   17 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:32:53 +1100 (AEDT)
From:  "Alan Duval" <amoht at ozemail dot com dot au>
Subject:   Boot Manager

Hi everyone,

Thanks to all who replied to my eMail.  I think i'll use IBM BM as i'm familiar with it. I'm waiting for Fedora CD's 
which i've ordered. I've tried a number of bootable Linux distro's but the only ones that work on my system are 
Mandrake Move and Knoppix. I like Mandrake but for an install thought i'd go for Fedora as the Red Hat 
people are putting a lot of effort into making Linux user friendly. 

Regards,

Alan Duval

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

**= Email   18 ==========================**

Date:  Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:27:52 +1100
From:  "Bruce Rossi" <brossi at melbpc dot org dot au>
Subject:  Re:  eCS and Linux

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:11:33 +0800, Kev wrote:

>Bruce Rossi wrote:
>
>> It can also "swap partition IDs" (?) which apparently allows you to
>> install an OS like windows 
>> onto a single HD, then put other HDs before it in the system and still
>> boot the OS even though >>it  is now not on the first partition on the
>> first HD.
>
>I believe AIR boot can do this too.  With BM, it hides any spare C: 
>partitions.  So if you look at my 1st HDD, the 1st primary is DOS (for 
>my favourite old games), the 2nd primary is Windows, and they both 
>require C: to boot.  So, even tho Windoze is on the 2nd partition, it 
>still boots as tho it was on the 1st partition.

Yes, AirBoot can do this, and let a C: partition see the "other" C: as well, if 
set up with a different drive letter.

The main point I was making was that you can physically remove all HDs 
except one to install wintendo onto, then return the other HDs and SBM will 
allow you to boot to a 2nd or greater HD as if it was C: on the 1st HD, which 
wintendo requires. It can also find and boot from a CDROM.

>I wonder what would happen if I used LVM to create a partition "anywhere 
>else" but named it "C".  Would DOS or Win still boot from it?  ie do 

No. LVM is intrinsic to eCS, so the other OS's do not know of it's C:

>they look for the 1st primary partition or do they look for C:?  One for 
>another day!

>Cheers
>Kev

Regards,

Bruce Rossi
Data To Documents
brucerSAFE at URLmelbpc dot org dot au (please remove capitals to reply)

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