Subject: [os2genau_digest] No. 283
From: "Digest" <newsatos2site dot com>
To: "OS/2GenAu Digest" <deadmail>
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 01:00:00 +1100 (EDT)

Date:- 27 February 2002

1================================================

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 08:37:03 -0500
From: Chris_neeson <Chris_Neesonatcompuserve dot com>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] REMINDER - Melbourne OS/2 SIG Meeting

Hi John.

Don't forget I've got a 30min demo ready about
IBMverken databases.

Regards
Chris

2==============================================

From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" <gnatsmart-road dot com dot au>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:46:57 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

Hello all

We have several aging workstations, indeed I remember vividly that we purchased them at the same time as the release of Win 95 In 
anticipation of something!  Anyway within months we realised the mistake and migrated to OS2 and eventually Warp Server.. thats the 
preamble...

within the past month, literally 3 machines have died and the power unit has emitted blue flames, smoke and the smell of roasting mouse... 
so its new boxes and power units and same old floppy, HD and CD player but new mother boards  CPU and 256 RAM....

the supplier was horrified to learn (after the first of the new PC boxes power units blew up within 24 hours  -and which he replaced obviously) 
that we leave all our units powered on and have done really ever since 1995!  We turn things off over the xmas long break but other than 
logging off , the units chugg away and the server and internet/ apache web server etc  also  chugg along permanently...  He was adamant 
that the WS should be powered down each night!

I recall many years ago at an OS2 meeting that the guru s thought that leaving them on rather than switching a machine on and off every day 
seemed to keep the  CPU, RAM and all those little silicon pathways more happy!???

my fridge has run continuously for 15 years other than blackouts... I can see  my suppliers  problem really!  Anyone have any thoughts on 
this matter?

Graham Norton
Neurologist

"when I need a hole in the head, I use Windows
when I need a window on the brain, I use OS2!"

3==============================================

From: "Daryl Pilkington" <u3232athome.dialix dot com>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:23:23 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

Hi Gra, Gra,

There is 2 opposing thoughts on this:
1)
My experience has shown equipment left on continously lasts longer.
This is also borne-out by your own experiences, Graham, with the
Smart-Road equipment.
You have a fairly large range of equipment, so your sample space is
broad enough to make this conclusion too.
There is a fair bit of scientific evidence to support this observation.

2)
Continuous operation has an electricity cost component, risk of
electrical fire, (as you have experienced), heat, in the case of
monitors, which requires air-conditioning.

So, I would suggest a compromise:-
Servers should be left running permanently, *not* monitors, however.

Workstations & printers should be switched-on in the morning & then
switched-off at the end of the day, no more, no less.

This will reduce your electricity bill & risk of fire during hours the
office is unattended, whilst providing a reasonably continuous
operational cycle.

Regards,

Daryl  Pilkington 

//// The PC-Therapist, Business Computing Integration
O<O  AUSTRALIA
\_/
<O>  OS/2 Warp, Redhat Linux, DB2
     IBM Certified Systems Expert

        email: darylpatpc-therapist dot com dot au
          ICQ: 91914134
          Mob: 0425-251-300

4==============================================

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:58:03 +1030
From: Gregory Hicks <ghicksatihug dot com dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

Hi Graham and Daryl :)

I concur with the material supplied by Daz on the ON/OFF machines.  The main issue will most likely be the ability of the power supplies to handle
non-stop running and of course, the incoming power to your system.

The most likely cause of power supply destruction is mains "sag", which occurs when the voltage drops by more than 10% of nominal.  This lower
voltage can cause long term damage to the electronics.  The more spectacular short term destruction occurs whenever you have a "spike" appear on
the lines.  If the spike has sufficient amplitude, it can punch through insulation or through components, leaving a carbonised trail that actually
shorts the supply out.

Considering you have a shopping centre (and quite large) and a hospital near you, I would suggest your recent problems are from spikes generated by
the centres air conditioning and other electrical devices feeding back to the grid and your office.  The older supplies were made from "discrete"
components which can be more robust than their integrated cousins of today.  I suggest that your old supplies died from natural causes, that being
aging breakdown of a capacitor eventually leading to the spectacular demise.  Looking at your most recent experience, I suggest that the newer
supply was hit by a "spike" that quickly dispatched the modern components back to the sand on our beaches.

In my experiences in the aviation industry, specifically in the electrical aspect, I would suggest Graham seek to hire a device known as a
"Dranitz" Power Line Monitor to seek out information about the state of the mains being supplied.  This device is not cheap, but can give you
monitored/printed information about the mains voltages for almost every little glitch that can be thrown at your equipment.

I have a question for you Graham, hiring the Dranitz Monitor woulod be a last resort to find out what is happening, but do you have adequate
filtering/suppression for your office fitted to the electrical supplies?

Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist wrote:

> Hello all
>
> We have several aging workstations, indeed I remember vividly that we purchased them at the same time as the release of Win 95 In
> anticipation of something!  Anyway within months we realised the mistake and migrated to OS2 and eventually Warp Server.. thats the
> preamble...
>
> within the past month, literally 3 machines have died and the power unit has emitted blue flames, smoke and the smell of roasting mouse...
> so its new boxes and power units and same old floppy, HD and CD player but new mother boards  CPU and 256 RAM....
>
> the supplier was horrified to learn (after the first of the new PC boxes power units blew up within 24 hours  -and which he replaced obviously)
> that we leave all our units powered on and have done really ever since 1995!  We turn things off over the xmas long break but other than
> logging off , the units chugg away and the server and internet/ apache web server etc  also  chugg along permanently...  He was adamant
> that the WS should be powered down each night!
>
> I recall many years ago at an OS2 meeting that the guru s thought that leaving them on rather than switching a machine on and off every day
> seemed to keep the  CPU, RAM and all those little silicon pathways more happy!???
>
> my fridge has run continuously for 15 years other than blackouts... I can see  my suppliers  problem really!  Anyone have any thoughts on
> this matter?
>
> Graham Norton
> Neurologist
>
> "when I need a hole in the head, I use Windows
> when I need a window on the brain, I use OS2!"
>

5==============================================

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:45:24 
From: Voytek Eymont <voytekatsbt dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

** Reply to note from "Daryl Pilkington" <u3232athome.dialix dot com> Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:23:23 +1100 (EDT)

> So, I would suggest a compromise:- 
> Servers should be left running permanently, *not* monitors, however. 
>  
> Workstations & printers should be switched-on in the morning & then 
> switched-off at the end of the day, no more, no less.

I'd agree with above, that's what we do

Voytek Eymont
SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd
http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/
phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 

6==============================================

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 10:49:03 
From: Voytek Eymont <voytekatsbt dot net dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

** Reply to note from "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" <gnatsmart-road dot com dot au> Tue, 26 Feb 2002 07:46:57 +1000 (EST)

> the supplier was horrified to learn (after the first of the new PC boxes power 
> units blew up within 24 hours  -and which he replaced obviously)  
> that we leave all our units powered on and have done really ever since 1995!  
> We turn things off over the xmas long break but other than  
> logging off , the units chugg away and the server and internet/ apache web 
> server etc  also  chugg along permanently...  He was adamant  
> that the WS should be powered down each night!

subject to what I concurred with earlier, there is nothing wrong with
leaving w/s on 24 hours, THOUGH, I'd switch the monitors off.

tell your supplier most breakdown occurs when switching stuff on, and, if
his equipenet can not cope with being ON 24 hours, look for better
equipment

Voytek Eymont
SBT Information Systems Pty Ltd
http://www.sbt dot net dot au/links/
phone +61-2 9310-1144 fax +61-2 9310-1118 

7==============================================

From: "Ian Manners" <newsatos2site dot com>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:49:37 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

Hi Graham

>I recall many years ago at an OS2 meeting that the guru s thought that leaving them on 
rather than switching a machine on and off every day 
>seemed to keep the  CPU, RAM and all those little silicon pathways more happy!???

I agree with Daryl, though it also depends on build quality, and Operating
System ie, general clones I tell people to turn off every night for two reasons

1) Windows works better when rebooted daily (on the off chance it
    hasnt BSDed) This also includes WinNT and 2000.
2) Clone power supplies fans, and internal fans are normally the cheapest
    so dont expect them to last long (anywere from 1 month to 2 years)
3) Depending on your enviroment, consider dust and noise.
4) All moving parts wear out, its called friction.

Pick two reasons :)

Server, obviously leave on all the time if they are connected to the
net, internal office servers SHOULD be of good name brand quality,
unless you or someone that is reliable has build them with quality
parts. In Kalgoorlie we use to turn our main office server off at
the end of the day as it was only for internal use, and I like to
turn the Air Cons off at night time.

I always turn my monitors off when I'm away from my desk for more
than 15-30 minutes. My main PC gets turned on when I get up,
turned off when I hit the sack. Of cause its OS/2 so it been many
years since its frozen on me (unless I've been messing with things
I shouldnt)

Glass Monitors use a tube that is a Vacuum Valve, (like the
old valve radio sets), the cathode in these tubes have a finite time
to live depending on electron emmission, and even in low power
mode the cathode still loses part of its cathode plating, so its a toss
up between the following

1) power consumtion
2) heat
3) damage from power shock
4) convience

Most good quality modern monitors have curved tube heating,
which simply means that the heating elements recieve a gentle
initial warmup current increasing to slightly above average, then
settling to the standard running heater voltage, makes for less
stress and longer life.

I also have noticed that power shock to monitors is less of a
problem that is heat damage to components, so I would always
simply turn the monitor off when I walk away from my desk for
more than a coffee.

Some Monitors also keep a small current flowing in the tube
heater, to allow a quicker turn on time.

Modern ATX computers also leave one power rail live to the MB,
so turning these PC's "off" is only turning most of the power off
including the cooling fans, HD's etc etc. I prefer the modern P/S's
with the seperate on/off switch on the back which physically
disconnects the 240v, and I tell others to turn their PC's off
here for extended leave from the premises primarily for safety
reasons (you can still blow th e#$% out of a PS).

Triacs when left connected to 240v have a bad habit of blowing
up after a few years of being hit with surges, I've even had one
blow in a wall mounted light dimmer switch, leaving very nice
scorch marks on the wood panels.....

My house now has dual banks of surge arresters, with a
seperate filtered power circuit for the computers.

Cheers
Ian B Manners
http://www.os2site dot com/

8==============================================

From: "Daryl Pilkington" <u3232athome.dialix dot com>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:48:49 +1100 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

Hi all,
Greg has described in some detail, something I failed to mention:-
destructive electrical noise.

This could be mains power fluctuations, or lightning.

You could provide mains filters for all your equipment.
Sorry, not the $20 surge arrestors you buy at KMart:- I'm talking
professional-grade filters like the sort Telstra use on their
equipment. These things are made to do a job not a price, which is
usually 3 or 4 figures...

You have a professional on-line UPS providing filtering for your
servers, & some lightning protection for inbound phone lines, although
I don't think that protection is configured properly. You need only 1
unprotected inbound phone line to provide a path for the lightning. The
earthing of that protection equipment also needs to be done carefully.

However, all the gloom & doom aside, look at it from a risk-management
perspective.

Your servers are pretty well protected, I ordered all the protective
equipment for you, its good stuff.
However an audit is probably in order to make sure it is configured
correctly.

By merely switching-off the office equipment overnight, you reduce your
risk of electrical fluctuations destroying or causing a fire in
equipment whilst the office is unattended.

Hardware is cheap, as long as the servers are running, you can quickly
replace the printers & workstations, at a cost probably less than
protecting it with filters.

Regards,

Daryl  Pilkington 

//// The PC-Therapist, Business Computing Integration
O<O  AUSTRALIA
\_/
<O>  OS/2 Warp, Redhat Linux, DB2
     IBM Certified Systems Expert

        email: darylpatpc-therapist dot com dot au
          ICQ: 91914134
          Mob: 0425-251-300

9==============================================

Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 21:38:58 +1000
From: Jim Boyle <jimboyleatoptushome dot com dot au>
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

I would comment
1) If your hardware manufacturer/retailer suggests  that the equipment
is not suitable for continuous use in a normal home or office
environment, I'd tell him that his design standards do not meet my
requirements and tell him that I was looking for another supplier.
2) I'd do that.
3) If electronic equipment is designed for normal power fluctuations
(i.e. at least allowing for +- 15% on voltage levels for 200 msec
duration, and +-7% sustained) then the occasional blip from a high
powered motor starting surge shouldn't worry it in the least.  Induction
motors are particularly vulnerable to sustained low voltages (say -10%
for more than 5 minutes), but most fans or other small motors are pretty
resistant to voltgae fluctuations or well isolated from mains
fluctuations by the power supply circuitry.
4) Modern PC power supplies typically use  self regulating high
frequency inverter circuits that are quite insensitive to voltage
fluctuations.  The better ones tolerate anything in the range 105V to
260V without even raising a sweat - or at worst require a simple change
to tolerate a choice of ranges centered on something like 100V and 230V.

5) Most software is not as thoroughly tested for complex restart
situations as for continouous operation - so YMMV.  For example - I have
never lost data on an OS/2 restart - and most of those have been caused
by power outages - not by software failures.
6) Some software is however, so weakly designed that continuous
operation is well nigh impossible due to the frequency of software
failures. In such cases, the associated data integrity and system
restart logic is frequently extremely simplistic and all "in-flight"
work at time of failure can be discarded by the failure and restart
process- so users have been conditioned to tolerate a "Restart it - even
though your work will be lost"  situation.   I will not mention what
software I have in mind as I type - but it's frequently quoted as the
success story of the IT industry.  I personally regard it as a tragic
confidence trick.

My machines typically run 24*7 - and my monitors are "Energy Star
compliant" - the main power consuming items are turned off automatically
after 15 minutes idle time (avoiding the issue of related power costs).
Restarts are very rare indeed and usually .occur when I'm installing
poorly designed software, or have an occasional requirement to boot an
alternative (W) environment  that I refuse to misdescribe as an
"Operating System".   I have never seen an incident of
mains-power-induced damage - even though we've suffered multiple 240V
failures - allegedly from lightning, possums, car crashes, and
high-voltage transmission failures in the vicinity.

Jim  Boyle (B.E. Elec)     jimboyleatoptushome dot com dot au

10==============================================

From: "Dr Graham Norton FRACP Neurologist" <gnatsmart-road dot com dot au>
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:59:36 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Re: [os2genau] Leave on or off?

Thanks to all for the responses...

I neglected to state that we do indeed switch off the monitors at night and the server 
is certainly on a UPS box with all the surge protection etc and the monitor is actually 
hardly ever on for the server as it chuggs away in a 'server room' away from 
fiddling fingers and eyes...

so it seems that   the consensus is that  I probably should power off the 
workstations  (which I should mention all run OS2 - there is a dual boot machine 
which runs once a month Win NT for quickbooks...) and the printers and leave the 
server and internet machines running....as we do at present...

again thanks for the  thread

Graham Norton
Neurologist

"when I need a hole in the head, I use Windows
when I need a window on the brain, I use OS2!"