From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug  1 13:19:52 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:19:52 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas
Message-ID: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

Dear PDP-11 & old Unix enthusiasts,

Status report of our petition to SCO about UNIX src licenses. I received this
from Dion Johnson last week:

	Warren,

	Thanks for your latest news.  That's great about the signatures.
	Yes, I perused the earlier list and it's really amazing that
	we have such famous support for this.  I am sure it will be
	a great PR victory when we finally get this arranged.

	Our exec VP (Doug Michels) is on your side.  I am annoying our
	legal folks, bless their hearts. :-)  They have a job to do also and
	I want to be sure we are protecting SCO's interests in the code
	in the right ways.

	I expect an answer in a week or so.  I suspect there will be
	further internal iterations here as we craft a license that works
	for all parties.

	So the right answer to publish is:

	"SCO is pleased to entertain this request from so many loyal and
	famous fans of UNIX.  We are looking into how we can provide this
	source code.  No promises at this time, since there are some
	intellectual property issues that must be resolved, but we will
	do what we can."

I'll email when I hear more. It occurred to me that if SCO agree to src
licenses and people buy them, then they will of course want the software.
I already make the stuff available to several people, on the trust that they
have existing src licenses (e.g show me the first 100 lines of v7 nami.c etc.)
At the moment, it's all sitting as .tar.gz files on my desktop box.

If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to
set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access
the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive
shouldn't divulge its contents easily.

I'm after comments from you guys, the end users of the archive, as to what
sounds good, ok, bad, annoying and/or plain stupid to you.

Proposal
--------

Make the archive available via FTP:

	- To prevent capture of ftp passwords, I suggest that each license
	  owner has an ftp account, and authentication is done using S/Key.

	  To distribute the S/Key key phrase or a number of S/Key pass
	  phrases to the license owners, I suggest using PGP email.

Keep the archive files encrypted:

	- This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the
	  plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very
	  large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the
	  archive machine.

Transmission to license owner - Suggestion A:

	- Transmit the PGP encrypted files `as is' to the license owner
	  via ftp. Shortcoming: every license owner has the same private
	  key required to decrypt the files. A hacker only needs to find
	  one vulnerable license owner to get the key.

Transmission to license owner - Suggestion B:

	- On-the-fly PGP encrypt the files using a key specific to the
	  license owner. Shortcoming: end user must have a personal key
	  plus the common key, and must decrypt everything twice.

Transmission to license owner - Suggestion C:

	- On-the-fly decrypt the archive file, and on-the-fly re-encrypt
	  it using a key specific to the license owner. End user only needs
	  one personal PGP key to decrypt the file. Shortcoming: the key
	  required to decrypt the file back to plaintext must exist on the
	  archive server. Hackers who break-in can thus get plaintext.

	  I think I prefer Suggestion A. For all 3 suggestions above, PGP
	  private keys will be sent to license holders using PGP email.

Anyway, this is an off the cuff set of ideas. I certainly want to keep
my butt from being sued off by SCO :-), and so I need to authenticate users,
keep audit trails of downloads and logins, and take reasonable steps to
prevent non-legitimate users from accessing the licensed material.

I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing
access to this old UNIX software!

Thanks in advance,

	Warren	wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug  1 14:02:29 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:02:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: ideas re UNIX licensed distribution
In-Reply-To: <199708010345.UAA27393@generic.yamato.com> from "Robert J. Kelley" at "Jul 31, 97 08:45:03 pm"
Message-ID: <199708010402.OAA10623@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Robert J. Kelley:
> 
> Why not just use SSH: verified licensees could submit keys and
> the archive server would keep them on file.  scp could be used
> to retrieve the files.

I'd still have to encrypt the archive files that are resident on disk.
Also, ssh is more of a `general' login account. scp would allow someone
to retrieve /etc/password :-)

If I could restrict scp access, that'd be an ok alternative.

	Warren


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug  1 14:33:26 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:33:26 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas
In-Reply-To: <199708010412.VAA15987@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jul 31, 97 09:12:05 pm"
Message-ID: <199708010433.OAA10684@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> > Make the archive available via FTP:
> 
> 	Convenient but the management of "accounts" and S/Key or PGP keys
> 	could be a real logistic nightmare.
> 
> 	Have you considered putting the archive on CDrom and shipping that
> 	upon receipt of a copy of the license?  Naturally there would be
> 	a modest fee for the media and shipping.
> 
> 	Probably would want a "mirror" shipping office in the US.
> 
> 	The reason I asked the "what will most folks want" question earlier
> 	was that perhaps folks only want a handful or a couple pieces.  CDrom
> 	writing is extremely simple (I think FreeBSD makes it harder or more
> 	complex than other systems though) - perhaps folks could, with the
> 	request for a CD specify which parts they want and a "custom" CD
> 	could be created.
> 
> 	This approach does have its own set of problems but it does do away
> 	with network snooping, outages and breakins.  The archive could be 
> 	offline or encrypted with a key known only to you - if you needed to
> 	make something available you could decrypt a copy and make it available
> 	for a small timewindow.
> 
> 	I know I'm planning on creating a few CDs to safeguard the stuff I've
> 	obtained so far - good (and cheap) protection against disk crashes
> 	and unreadable backup tapes.
> 
> 	A variation on this scheme would be to master a CD with everything
> 	on it and let SCO send the CD out along with the license when 
> 	payment is received.  Hmmmm - I kinda like this the more I think
> 	about it.  Might even get some nice artwork (the BSD 'imp'?) on
> 	the cover.  I'm sure SCO gets a real good rate at the CD pressing
> 	plant so the media cost would be lower than an individual doing it
> 	on a CDwriter.

> 	Perhaps the online/FTP archive could be a backup or secondary
> 	means of distribution - if someone convinces you (or sends a copy
> 	of the license) they have the license but lost the media, etc you
> 	could set up a PGP encrypted account for them.

> 	Cheers.
> 	Steven

Yes, I'd thought about cutting a CD directly from the current archive,
and certainly having someone (SCO, me?) distribute files on CD would
make the administration a lot easier. I guess license holders could
buy `upgrade CDs' if the archive changes.

If SCO come to the src license party, I certainly will ask them about
pressing CDs and distributing them as part of the license sale.

Thanks for the input Steven!

	Warren


From m at mbsks.franken.de  Fri Aug  1 17:29:48 1997
From: m at mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:29:48 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas
In-Reply-To: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Aug 1, 97 01:19:52 pm"
Message-ID: <m0wuC9m-000Hq5C@mbsks.franken.de>

Mahlzeit


According to Warren Toomey:
> If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to
> set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access
> the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive
> shouldn't divulge its contents easily.
Isn't ftp for a $200-programm secure enough? I'm doing beta testing
for a programm, which costs $1100 and they distribute the passwords
for ftp by unencrypted mail. They do that allready for a few releases
and I don't think they had any problems with that.

> Keep the archive files encrypted:
> 
> 	- This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the
> 	  plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very
> 	  large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the
> 	  archive machine.
I don't think you need a very large key. Everyone, which has the
choice to crack a 512bit key or to pay $200, would choose to pay.

> I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing
> access to this old UNIX software!
I think pgp is to difficult to use for some. You could use a simple
encryption programm like: ftp://isidor.ethz.ch/pub/simpl/safer.V1.1.tar.Z
which should be very portable. The passphrase could be distributed on
the license.


Mahlzeit

endergone Zwiebeltuete

-- 
insanity inside


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Thu Aug  7 09:22:07 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:07 +1000 (EST)
Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK
Message-ID: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

Dear PDP-11 UNIXers,

	Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an
old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read:

 * In article by George Coulouris:
 * > Warren,
 * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to
 * > have a go at reading the tape.
 * > George
 *

[and later...]

 * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George??

No, I'm afraid not.

I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in
London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your
people.

George

-------

Can anybody in the UK or Europe who would be happy to read this old tape for
George & for the PUPS archive please email him! His address is

	George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk

Many thanks in advance,

	Warren	wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au


From engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de  Thu Aug  7 18:39:42 1997
From: engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (Michael Engel)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:39:42 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK
In-Reply-To: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am
Message-ID: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de>


Hi,

it seems my mail didn`t come through last time ...

> 	Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an
> old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read:
> 
>  * In article by George Coulouris:
>  * > Warren,
>  * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to
>  * > have a go at reading the tape.
>  * > George
> 
> [and later...]
> 
>  * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George??
> 
> No, I'm afraid not.
> 
> I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in
> London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your
> people.
> 
We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send
me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a
10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ...

regards,
	Michael Engel	(engel at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de)



From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Mon Aug 11 13:22:17 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:22:17 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PUPS
In-Reply-To: <19970808214918.53692@dynamic.isdn.uiuc.edu> from "Mark D. Roth" at "Aug 8, 97 09:49:18 pm"
Message-ID: <199708110322.NAA04948@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Mark D. Roth:
> Warren,
> 
> I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and
> know next to nothing about.  I'm looking for any info I might be able
> to find on how to get this machine running, as well as any info I
> might find about getting a Unix implementation for it.

I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the
paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up,
but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management
(nor the memory) to get Unix running.

> I saw reference to a mailing list on the webpage, but no information
> on how to join.  What can you tell me?

Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone
with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight
with regards to 11/03's.

Cheers,
	Warren


From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Mon Aug 11 13:53:16 1997
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PUPS
Message-ID: <199708110353.UAA21891@moe.2bsd.com>

Warren, Mark -

> In article by Mark D. Roth:
> > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and
> > know next to nothing about.  I'm looking for any info I might be able
> 
> I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the

	Quite correct.

> paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up,
> but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management
> (nor the memory) to get Unix running.

	Warren - you're absolutely right.  The 11/03 has a maximum memory
	(most were not fully populated) of 56kbytes and _no_ memory
	management.  Any Unix (since the initial one on the PDP-7) requires
	at least two memory management states: kernel and user.  Much later
	versions can take advantage of the 3rd mode (supervisor).

	Smallest machine I ever ran Unix on was an 11/23 (the development
	was done on a 11/70 because various programs were too large to run
	on a non split I/D machine such as the 11/23) and it was, shall we 
	say, "interesting".  Just enough memory (max of 248kb) to run one or 
	two user processes at a time (we had a rather large kernel and some
	homebrew communications drivers) - you could get logged in and then 
	each time you typed a command the shell would get swapped out to run 
	your command ;).

> Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone
> with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight
> with regards to 11/03's.

	You got it right - nothing to set straight.  

	Steven Schultz



From George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk  Fri Aug 22 01:49:53 1997
From: George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk (George Coulouris)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:53 +0100
Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK
In-Reply-To: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de>
References: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren
 Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am
Message-ID: <l0311070db0221139bb07@[138.37.88.234]>

Dear Michael,

Many thanks for your offer. Sorry for the delay in replying. If you are
still willing I would like to take up your offer. If you will mail me your
physical mail address, I'll send you the tape. As far as I can remember the
tape is a UNIX tar archive, that should be readable on the VMS machine and
you could give the files back to me by ftp.

(I'm taking up your offer rather than Tim Bradshaw's because you seem to
have had more recent success with reading old tapes.

Thanks again,

George

At 9:39 am +0100 7/8/97, Michael Engel wrote:
 * >
 * We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send
 * me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a
 * 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ...
 *
At 3:22 pm +0100 7/8/97, Tim Bradshaw wrote:

 *
 * We have old-tape-reading-technology, so we could give it a try.  No
 * promises at all though (I have to turn the drive back on &c, and it's
 * not altogether clear that it will work, though it did last time I
 * tried it), asnd it will take me ages to get around to it, being very
 * inefficient...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George F. Coulouris                         | Computer Science Dept
Professor of Computer Systems               | QMW, University of London
WWW:     http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~george   | Mile End Road
Phone: +44 171 975 5201 (direct line)       | London E1 4NS
Fax:          +44 181 980 6533              | United Kingdom
Home phone:   +44 171 485 5896              |
pager:        01426 183113                  |




From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Wed Aug 27 10:45:58 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
Message-ID: <199708270045.KAA03801@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

All,
	Here is the latest email from SCO with regards to PDP-11 UNIX
source licenses. I'll add one comment at the bottom.

Please treat this as YOUR EYES ONLY. I haven't got permission from Dion
to forward this on (yet), but I think that more pairs of eyes than just
mine need to have a look at it for any problems.

----- Forwarded message from Dion -----

  From: Dion <dionj at sco.COM>
  X-Mailer: SCO OpenServer Mail Release 5.0
  To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
  Subject: Re: Touching Base!
  Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 12:45:07 PDT

Warren,

Good progress.  We have some positive consensus developing.
Here is the proposed license terms (roughly, not fully legalized
yet).  Please let me know if you see any problems with this
proposal:


Here are the terms that I think make sense:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
License terms:
    
* the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and
  documentation) of the following versions of UNIX:
            o 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX
            o 32V UNIX
            o PWB/UNIX
            o those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX
              source code

* licensees have these rights wrt the binaries and source code of the above
  versions of UNIX:

use
store
reproduce
edit
adapt
enchance
improve
otherwise modify
transmit electronically
repackage

* These rights are licensed to noncommercial users.  The source may
  not be sold nor used to develop commercial versions of UNIX.

* licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and
  PDP-11 emulating software

* licensees have the right to allow noncommercial use the UNIX binaries on
  systems for which the product is licensed.
    
   (Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license
    agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the
    following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for
    PDP-11 UNIXes)
    
* license is not transferable.

* source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed
  to people not covered by the license.  The licensees are permitted to
  collaborate on modifications and mutually share their modifications.

* SCO is not required to provide copies of any source code, binaries or
  documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes

License Fee:  SCO charges a one-time license fee of $100 per licensee,
for a site license for one organization.

We may, at some future time, provide source distributions (if/when
we can find the sources), but this is not committed.  We know that
the licensees have, between them, most of the needed sources.

----- End of forwarded message from Dion -----

My comment. The only thing I want to change is:

	* licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware
	  and PDP-11 emulating software

becomes

	* licensees have the right to install UNIX software on PDP-11 hardware
	  and PDP-11 emulating software

This allows us to install source so as to modify it or to rebuild kernels etc.

I briefly raised the issue of source distribution (SCO or me? FTP or CD-ROM?),
but I suggested that we leave it until the licenses go on sale.

Please email your comments on this to the mailing list
(oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au).

Thanks,
	Warren	wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Wed Aug 27 15:51:20 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:20 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
In-Reply-To: <199708270539.WAA16297@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Aug 26, 97 10:39:11 pm"
Message-ID: <199708270551.PAA00316@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> 	It looks to me that SCO has granted "us" every single thing we were
> 	asking for.

I've thought of a few more changes:

In the wording from SCO, the status of `documentation' is unclear. The
following should clear this up:

  + use the term software == `source, binaries and documentation' in many
    places where this is appropriate.

  + use the term `source' only where they want to restrict to licensees.



  + also, don't disclose `source' to people not covered by the SCO license
    or by existing UNIX software licenses from Western Electric and AT&T.


Comments anybody?

	Warren


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug 29 11:43:09 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
In-Reply-To: <9708281506.AA29078@numbat05-an2.pa.dec.com> from "mcjones@pa.dec.com" at "Aug 28, 97 08:06:23 am"
Message-ID: <199708290143.LAA03340@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by mcjones at pa.dec.com:
> 
> > Maybe someone else can volunteer, if I organise the contents :-)
> 
> There's one here at my workplace.  I don't know how to use it myself.  
> I could probably get some help in burning one or two, but I don't 
> think it would be appropriate to burn dozens or hundreds.  How many 
> licensees do you anticipate?

There's 300 signatures on the petition. I'd hope that 1/2 of those
will buy licenses, and probably most would like the stuff in easy-to-use
form.

I know that Steven Schultz has access to a writer too (hint hint!).
I will probably buy another hard disk here for the PDP archive, and give
access to license holders.

I'd like to get users to suggest layout changes & what should be exploded
etc. so that we can burn a 650M CD image directly from the archive.

Currently, the archive is sitting at 250M, so there's room to explode
many of the distributions stored there.

We also need to sit down and catalogue this stuff so that it's not
just a collection of random tapes. I'm slowly doing this & have done
the most important stuff, see the Tapes/DETAILS file if you ftp in.
But more work needs to be done.

So hopefully, we can pass the archive (as a Rock Ridge image) to a few
volunteers to burn CD-R copies. Anybody in Europe who would volunteer?

Just an idea!

	Warren


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Sun Aug 31 12:41:29 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn
In-Reply-To: <B0620B9317B0D0119D3C0060976CE96418B8@nt-main.vitrex.com> from Kevin Wright at "Aug 29, 97 09:24:27 am"
Message-ID: <199708310241.MAA04803@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Kevin Wright:
> I could very possibly volunteer to do one.  I have access to my
> companies cdrom burner.
> 
> Subject change:
> I own a PDP-11/23+ for which I'm constantly searching the Internet for
> RT-11 and TSX+ documentation and software, as well as any other OS's
> such as Unix.  Do you have any such software/documentation in your
> archive of which you would be willing to allow me a copy?

Kevin, until you can buy a license from SCO (soon I hope), all I can
offer are the binaries for 6th & 7th Edition. If you have an RK05 or RL02,
then you can get disk images as part of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator,
at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.3

(or a similar URL, I'm typing from memory).

If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build
a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition
as you have a /23.

	Warren


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug  1 13:19:52 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 13:19:52 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas
Message-ID: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

Dear PDP-11 & old Unix enthusiasts,

Status report of our petition to SCO about UNIX src licenses. I received this
from Dion Johnson last week:

	Warren,

	Thanks for your latest news.  That's great about the signatures.
	Yes, I perused the earlier list and it's really amazing that
	we have such famous support for this.  I am sure it will be
	a great PR victory when we finally get this arranged.

	Our exec VP (Doug Michels) is on your side.  I am annoying our
	legal folks, bless their hearts. :-)  They have a job to do also and
	I want to be sure we are protecting SCO's interests in the code
	in the right ways.

	I expect an answer in a week or so.  I suspect there will be
	further internal iterations here as we craft a license that works
	for all parties.

	So the right answer to publish is:

	"SCO is pleased to entertain this request from so many loyal and
	famous fans of UNIX.  We are looking into how we can provide this
	source code.  No promises at this time, since there are some
	intellectual property issues that must be resolved, but we will
	do what we can."

I'll email when I hear more. It occurred to me that if SCO agree to src
licenses and people buy them, then they will of course want the software.
I already make the stuff available to several people, on the trust that they
have existing src licenses (e.g show me the first 100 lines of v7 nami.c etc.)
At the moment, it's all sitting as .tar.gz files on my desktop box.

If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to
set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access
the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive
shouldn't divulge its contents easily.

I'm after comments from you guys, the end users of the archive, as to what
sounds good, ok, bad, annoying and/or plain stupid to you.

Proposal
--------

Make the archive available via FTP:

	- To prevent capture of ftp passwords, I suggest that each license
	  owner has an ftp account, and authentication is done using S/Key.

	  To distribute the S/Key key phrase or a number of S/Key pass
	  phrases to the license owners, I suggest using PGP email.

Keep the archive files encrypted:

	- This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the
	  plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very
	  large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the
	  archive machine.

Transmission to license owner - Suggestion A:

	- Transmit the PGP encrypted files `as is' to the license owner
	  via ftp. Shortcoming: every license owner has the same private
	  key required to decrypt the files. A hacker only needs to find
	  one vulnerable license owner to get the key.

Transmission to license owner - Suggestion B:

	- On-the-fly PGP encrypt the files using a key specific to the
	  license owner. Shortcoming: end user must have a personal key
	  plus the common key, and must decrypt everything twice.

Transmission to license owner - Suggestion C:

	- On-the-fly decrypt the archive file, and on-the-fly re-encrypt
	  it using a key specific to the license owner. End user only needs
	  one personal PGP key to decrypt the file. Shortcoming: the key
	  required to decrypt the file back to plaintext must exist on the
	  archive server. Hackers who break-in can thus get plaintext.

	  I think I prefer Suggestion A. For all 3 suggestions above, PGP
	  private keys will be sent to license holders using PGP email.

Anyway, this is an off the cuff set of ideas. I certainly want to keep
my butt from being sued off by SCO :-), and so I need to authenticate users,
keep audit trails of downloads and logins, and take reasonable steps to
prevent non-legitimate users from accessing the licensed material.

I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing
access to this old UNIX software!

Thanks in advance,

	Warren	wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug  1 14:02:29 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:02:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: ideas re UNIX licensed distribution
In-Reply-To: <199708010345.UAA27393@generic.yamato.com> from "Robert J. Kelley" at "Jul 31, 97 08:45:03 pm"
Message-ID: <199708010402.OAA10623@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Robert J. Kelley:
> 
> Why not just use SSH: verified licensees could submit keys and
> the archive server would keep them on file.  scp could be used
> to retrieve the files.

I'd still have to encrypt the archive files that are resident on disk.
Also, ssh is more of a `general' login account. scp would allow someone
to retrieve /etc/password :-)

If I could restrict scp access, that'd be an ok alternative.

	Warren


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug  1 14:33:26 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 14:33:26 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas
In-Reply-To: <199708010412.VAA15987@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jul 31, 97 09:12:05 pm"
Message-ID: <199708010433.OAA10684@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> > Make the archive available via FTP:
> 
> 	Convenient but the management of "accounts" and S/Key or PGP keys
> 	could be a real logistic nightmare.
> 
> 	Have you considered putting the archive on CDrom and shipping that
> 	upon receipt of a copy of the license?  Naturally there would be
> 	a modest fee for the media and shipping.
> 
> 	Probably would want a "mirror" shipping office in the US.
> 
> 	The reason I asked the "what will most folks want" question earlier
> 	was that perhaps folks only want a handful or a couple pieces.  CDrom
> 	writing is extremely simple (I think FreeBSD makes it harder or more
> 	complex than other systems though) - perhaps folks could, with the
> 	request for a CD specify which parts they want and a "custom" CD
> 	could be created.
> 
> 	This approach does have its own set of problems but it does do away
> 	with network snooping, outages and breakins.  The archive could be 
> 	offline or encrypted with a key known only to you - if you needed to
> 	make something available you could decrypt a copy and make it available
> 	for a small timewindow.
> 
> 	I know I'm planning on creating a few CDs to safeguard the stuff I've
> 	obtained so far - good (and cheap) protection against disk crashes
> 	and unreadable backup tapes.
> 
> 	A variation on this scheme would be to master a CD with everything
> 	on it and let SCO send the CD out along with the license when 
> 	payment is received.  Hmmmm - I kinda like this the more I think
> 	about it.  Might even get some nice artwork (the BSD 'imp'?) on
> 	the cover.  I'm sure SCO gets a real good rate at the CD pressing
> 	plant so the media cost would be lower than an individual doing it
> 	on a CDwriter.

> 	Perhaps the online/FTP archive could be a backup or secondary
> 	means of distribution - if someone convinces you (or sends a copy
> 	of the license) they have the license but lost the media, etc you
> 	could set up a PGP encrypted account for them.

> 	Cheers.
> 	Steven

Yes, I'd thought about cutting a CD directly from the current archive,
and certainly having someone (SCO, me?) distribute files on CD would
make the administration a lot easier. I guess license holders could
buy `upgrade CDs' if the archive changes.

If SCO come to the src license party, I certainly will ask them about
pressing CDs and distributing them as part of the license sale.

Thanks for the input Steven!

	Warren


From m at mbsks.franken.de  Fri Aug  1 17:29:48 1997
From: m at mbsks.franken.de (Matthias Bruestle)
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 09:29:48 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: Old UNIX ftp archive - access ideas
In-Reply-To: <199708010319.NAA10575@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from Warren Toomey at "Aug 1, 97 01:19:52 pm"
Message-ID: <m0wuC9m-000Hq5C@mbsks.franken.de>

Mahlzeit


According to Warren Toomey:
> If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to
> set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access
> the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive
> shouldn't divulge its contents easily.
Isn't ftp for a $200-programm secure enough? I'm doing beta testing
for a programm, which costs $1100 and they distribute the passwords
for ftp by unencrypted mail. They do that allready for a few releases
and I don't think they had any problems with that.

> Keep the archive files encrypted:
> 
> 	- This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the
> 	  plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very
> 	  large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the
> 	  archive machine.
I don't think you need a very large key. Everyone, which has the
choice to crack a 512bit key or to pay $200, would choose to pay.

> I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing
> access to this old UNIX software!
I think pgp is to difficult to use for some. You could use a simple
encryption programm like: ftp://isidor.ethz.ch/pub/simpl/safer.V1.1.tar.Z
which should be very portable. The passphrase could be distributed on
the license.


Mahlzeit

endergone Zwiebeltuete

-- 
insanity inside


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Thu Aug  7 09:22:07 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:07 +1000 (EST)
Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK
Message-ID: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

Dear PDP-11 UNIXers,

	Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an
old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read:

 * In article by George Coulouris:
 * > Warren,
 * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to
 * > have a go at reading the tape.
 * > George
 *

[and later...]

 * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George??

No, I'm afraid not.

I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in
London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your
people.

George

-------

Can anybody in the UK or Europe who would be happy to read this old tape for
George & for the PUPS archive please email him! His address is

	George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk

Many thanks in advance,

	Warren	wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au


From engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de  Thu Aug  7 18:39:42 1997
From: engel at numerik.math.uni-siegen.de (Michael Engel)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:39:42 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK
In-Reply-To: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am
Message-ID: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de>


Hi,

it seems my mail didn`t come through last time ...

> 	Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an
> old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read:
> 
>  * In article by George Coulouris:
>  * > Warren,
>  * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to
>  * > have a go at reading the tape.
>  * > George
> 
> [and later...]
> 
>  * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George??
> 
> No, I'm afraid not.
> 
> I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in
> London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your
> people.
> 
We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send
me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a
10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ...

regards,
	Michael Engel	(engel at unix-ag.uni-siegen.de)



From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Mon Aug 11 13:22:17 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:22:17 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PUPS
In-Reply-To: <19970808214918.53692@dynamic.isdn.uiuc.edu> from "Mark D. Roth" at "Aug 8, 97 09:49:18 pm"
Message-ID: <199708110322.NAA04948@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Mark D. Roth:
> Warren,
> 
> I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and
> know next to nothing about.  I'm looking for any info I might be able
> to find on how to get this machine running, as well as any info I
> might find about getting a Unix implementation for it.

I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the
paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up,
but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management
(nor the memory) to get Unix running.

> I saw reference to a mailing list on the webpage, but no information
> on how to join.  What can you tell me?

Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone
with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight
with regards to 11/03's.

Cheers,
	Warren


From sms at moe.2bsd.com  Mon Aug 11 13:53:16 1997
From: sms at moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: PUPS
Message-ID: <199708110353.UAA21891@moe.2bsd.com>

Warren, Mark -

> In article by Mark D. Roth:
> > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and
> > know next to nothing about.  I'm looking for any info I might be able
> 
> I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the

	Quite correct.

> paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up,
> but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management
> (nor the memory) to get Unix running.

	Warren - you're absolutely right.  The 11/03 has a maximum memory
	(most were not fully populated) of 56kbytes and _no_ memory
	management.  Any Unix (since the initial one on the PDP-7) requires
	at least two memory management states: kernel and user.  Much later
	versions can take advantage of the 3rd mode (supervisor).

	Smallest machine I ever ran Unix on was an 11/23 (the development
	was done on a 11/70 because various programs were too large to run
	on a non split I/D machine such as the 11/23) and it was, shall we 
	say, "interesting".  Just enough memory (max of 248kb) to run one or 
	two user processes at a time (we had a rather large kernel and some
	homebrew communications drivers) - you could get logged in and then 
	each time you typed a command the shell would get swapped out to run 
	your command ;).

> Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone
> with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight
> with regards to 11/03's.

	You got it right - nothing to set straight.  

	Steven Schultz



From George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk  Fri Aug 22 01:49:53 1997
From: George.Coulouris at dcs.qmw.ac.uk (George Coulouris)
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:53 +0100
Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK
In-Reply-To: <9708070839.AA04553@descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de>
References: <199708062322.JAA03135@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren
 Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am
Message-ID: <l0311070db0221139bb07@[138.37.88.234]>

Dear Michael,

Many thanks for your offer. Sorry for the delay in replying. If you are
still willing I would like to take up your offer. If you will mail me your
physical mail address, I'll send you the tape. As far as I can remember the
tape is a UNIX tar archive, that should be readable on the VMS machine and
you could give the files back to me by ftp.

(I'm taking up your offer rather than Tim Bradshaw's because you seem to
have had more recent success with reading old tapes.

Thanks again,

George

At 9:39 am +0100 7/8/97, Michael Engel wrote:
 * >
 * We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send
 * me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a
 * 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ...
 *
At 3:22 pm +0100 7/8/97, Tim Bradshaw wrote:

 *
 * We have old-tape-reading-technology, so we could give it a try.  No
 * promises at all though (I have to turn the drive back on &c, and it's
 * not altogether clear that it will work, though it did last time I
 * tried it), asnd it will take me ages to get around to it, being very
 * inefficient...


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George F. Coulouris                         | Computer Science Dept
Professor of Computer Systems               | QMW, University of London
WWW:     http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~george   | Mile End Road
Phone: +44 171 975 5201 (direct line)       | London E1 4NS
Fax:          +44 181 980 6533              | United Kingdom
Home phone:   +44 171 485 5896              |
pager:        01426 183113                  |




From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Wed Aug 27 10:45:58 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
Message-ID: <199708270045.KAA03801@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

All,
	Here is the latest email from SCO with regards to PDP-11 UNIX
source licenses. I'll add one comment at the bottom.

Please treat this as YOUR EYES ONLY. I haven't got permission from Dion
to forward this on (yet), but I think that more pairs of eyes than just
mine need to have a look at it for any problems.

----- Forwarded message from Dion -----

  From: Dion <dionj at sco.COM>
  X-Mailer: SCO OpenServer Mail Release 5.0
  To: wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au
  Subject: Re: Touching Base!
  Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 12:45:07 PDT

Warren,

Good progress.  We have some positive consensus developing.
Here is the proposed license terms (roughly, not fully legalized
yet).  Please let me know if you see any problems with this
proposal:


Here are the terms that I think make sense:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
License terms:
    
* the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and
  documentation) of the following versions of UNIX:
            o 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX
            o 32V UNIX
            o PWB/UNIX
            o those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX
              source code

* licensees have these rights wrt the binaries and source code of the above
  versions of UNIX:

use
store
reproduce
edit
adapt
enchance
improve
otherwise modify
transmit electronically
repackage

* These rights are licensed to noncommercial users.  The source may
  not be sold nor used to develop commercial versions of UNIX.

* licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and
  PDP-11 emulating software

* licensees have the right to allow noncommercial use the UNIX binaries on
  systems for which the product is licensed.
    
   (Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license
    agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the
    following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for
    PDP-11 UNIXes)
    
* license is not transferable.

* source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed
  to people not covered by the license.  The licensees are permitted to
  collaborate on modifications and mutually share their modifications.

* SCO is not required to provide copies of any source code, binaries or
  documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes

License Fee:  SCO charges a one-time license fee of $100 per licensee,
for a site license for one organization.

We may, at some future time, provide source distributions (if/when
we can find the sources), but this is not committed.  We know that
the licensees have, between them, most of the needed sources.

----- End of forwarded message from Dion -----

My comment. The only thing I want to change is:

	* licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware
	  and PDP-11 emulating software

becomes

	* licensees have the right to install UNIX software on PDP-11 hardware
	  and PDP-11 emulating software

This allows us to install source so as to modify it or to rebuild kernels etc.

I briefly raised the issue of source distribution (SCO or me? FTP or CD-ROM?),
but I suggested that we leave it until the licenses go on sale.

Please email your comments on this to the mailing list
(oldunix at minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au).

Thanks,
	Warren	wkt at cs.adfa.oz.au


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Wed Aug 27 15:51:20 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:20 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
In-Reply-To: <199708270539.WAA16297@moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Aug 26, 97 10:39:11 pm"
Message-ID: <199708270551.PAA00316@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> 	It looks to me that SCO has granted "us" every single thing we were
> 	asking for.

I've thought of a few more changes:

In the wording from SCO, the status of `documentation' is unclear. The
following should clear this up:

  + use the term software == `source, binaries and documentation' in many
    places where this is appropriate.

  + use the term `source' only where they want to restrict to licensees.



  + also, don't disclose `source' to people not covered by the SCO license
    or by existing UNIX software licenses from Western Electric and AT&T.


Comments anybody?

	Warren


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Fri Aug 29 11:43:09 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
In-Reply-To: <9708281506.AA29078@numbat05-an2.pa.dec.com> from "mcjones@pa.dec.com" at "Aug 28, 97 08:06:23 am"
Message-ID: <199708290143.LAA03340@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by mcjones at pa.dec.com:
> 
> > Maybe someone else can volunteer, if I organise the contents :-)
> 
> There's one here at my workplace.  I don't know how to use it myself.  
> I could probably get some help in burning one or two, but I don't 
> think it would be appropriate to burn dozens or hundreds.  How many 
> licensees do you anticipate?

There's 300 signatures on the petition. I'd hope that 1/2 of those
will buy licenses, and probably most would like the stuff in easy-to-use
form.

I know that Steven Schultz has access to a writer too (hint hint!).
I will probably buy another hard disk here for the PDP archive, and give
access to license holders.

I'd like to get users to suggest layout changes & what should be exploded
etc. so that we can burn a 650M CD image directly from the archive.

Currently, the archive is sitting at 250M, so there's room to explode
many of the distributions stored there.

We also need to sit down and catalogue this stuff so that it's not
just a collection of random tapes. I'm slowly doing this & have done
the most important stuff, see the Tapes/DETAILS file if you ftp in.
But more work needs to be done.

So hopefully, we can pass the archive (as a Rock Ridge image) to a few
volunteers to burn CD-R copies. Anybody in Europe who would volunteer?

Just an idea!

	Warren


From wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au  Sun Aug 31 12:41:29 1997
From: wkt at henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST)
Subject: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn
In-Reply-To: <B0620B9317B0D0119D3C0060976CE96418B8@nt-main.vitrex.com> from Kevin Wright at "Aug 29, 97 09:24:27 am"
Message-ID: <199708310241.MAA04803@henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>

In article by Kevin Wright:
> I could very possibly volunteer to do one.  I have access to my
> companies cdrom burner.
> 
> Subject change:
> I own a PDP-11/23+ for which I'm constantly searching the Internet for
> RT-11 and TSX+ documentation and software, as well as any other OS's
> such as Unix.  Do you have any such software/documentation in your
> archive of which you would be willing to allow me a copy?

Kevin, until you can buy a license from SCO (soon I hope), all I can
offer are the binaries for 6th & 7th Edition. If you have an RK05 or RL02,
then you can get disk images as part of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator,
at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.3

(or a similar URL, I'm typing from memory).

If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build
a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition
as you have a /23.

	Warren


