Appraisals, value, the "Market" was Re: And $500 gets you...

[Roger Merchberger]

Rumor has it that Computer Collector Newsletter may have mentioned these words:

[[ Ungh. - I wasn't going to jump into the fray on this one... but... Well, 
I'll say "Just this once." Blame it on CRI. ]]

> >>>>> people prop up insecurity with the alleged monetary value of their
>toys. ... I don't need to have monetary value attached to artifacts I like
>to convince others they are worthwhile.
>
>Wow, even though you said "no offense", that's still a heck of an
>accusation.  I wouldn't object if it was somehow grounded in evidence.

This isn't directed as an attack, but you said that there's no evidence 
that the above happens.... That's patently wrong; as that's human nature. 
[[ And to me, it seemed to me that Tom was making generalizations; not 
pointing at you or any of us specifically. ]]

A *lot* of people see my 2004 Chevy Avalanche as a toy -- and they respond 
in fashion. What I heard most is "Sweet Ride! What'd ya shell out for 
that?" and "Must be nice to be rich enough to afford an expensive toy like 
that!" I have yet to hear "How many HP does the engine crank?" or "Boy, 
I'll bet that rascal could pull people out of the ditch no problem!" (which 
I did twice this winter.) I needed a dependable pickup that hauls 5 
comfortably (as my children are growing, and I doubt they're gonna stop 
even if I ask 'em nicely ;-). This truck does it, and does it well. I'm 
certainly not going to try to pull my trailer or haul lumber (or yank 
people out of the ditch) with an '84 Yugo! And used Avalanches in this town 
are rarer than Amiga 4000Ts!

Until H^HDell, Goatway and HPieceOCrap came out with their sub-$1000 PCs, 
cost was the first thing I always heard discussed about computers as well 
(and not just mine, either)....

... *especially* when a large portion of the "unwashed masses" considered 
computers as unnecessary toys instead of tools. Now that durned near 
everyone's got [at least] one, the public opinion has changed a great deal. 
"The geek shall inherit the earth" isn't such a stretch anymore. ;-)

>I was simply doubting Sellam's definition of "the market" by reminding us all
>that we on classiccmp alone are hardly "the market" in question.

Sellam was stating that ePay *alone* is hardly "the market." ePay's a part 
of it, so are we, so are the people who collect in silence. To say "I saw a 
frobsnark sell on ePay for 3 cachillion deutschmarks, so that's what mine's 
worth" is wrong, as it's not taking in many variables (location, rarity, 
condition, and most importantly "don't trust one stoopid ePayer with more 
money than brains" ;-) of "the market." On the flipside, if Sellam says "In 
my vast experience, I set the value of an Amiga 4000T with a 4Meg 3D Zorro 
III card at $70" that doesn't automagically make me an idiot if I pay $80 
for one in Northern Michigan; as they're exceptionally rare here. (Granted, 
I probably have the only one in a 100 mile radius, so I'd have to buy it 
from *me*... which I suppose *would* make me an idiot... ;-) I've seen a 
WWII Enigma, yet I've never seen a PERQ. Which is rarer? (Heck, I've never 
seen a black Apple II!)

>   I'm
>baffled how you translated that into "Evan and anyone else concerned about
>the value of their collections must be an insecure doofus."

I think he was trying to make the point more of "Why should we try to 
quantify a hobby in which a very small percentage of the population 
actually partake?" which is what you had said we should do.

Is there a grading scale for condition of computers, like there is for 
coins? No. Should there be? I don't think so, as I don't think "the market" 
is going to grow to the point that it's necessary. How about mintages? Do 
we have much more than guesses as to how many of [insert favorite computer 
here] were made? How many survived? In most cases, no. However, until that 
grading scale exists, and actual "global rarity" data exists, valuation is 
going to be subjective, whether the primary datapoints you use are ePay or 
Sellam's brain.

I'm with Tom - I don't *care* what my computer shiznit is worth. I do this 
because I enjoy the hobby. My coin collection mirrors my computer 
collection: 99% bog-standard crap, with a couple of rather interesting 
conversation pieces. I like my Canadian Large Cent collection just as much 
as my CoCo3 collection, and they're worth about the same amount - $20, 
tops. Maybe.

> >>>> do what I can to undermine that... horrible capitalist tendency...
>
>You must be hanging around Michael Sokolov again.  :)

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!  He's sleeping! Best not to wake him up, else he 
might get cranky! ;-)

Laterz,
Roger "Merch" Merchberger

--
Roger "Merch" Merchberger   | A new truth in advertising slogan
SysAdmin, Iceberg Computers | for MicroSoft: "We're not the oxy...
zmerch at 30below.com          |                         ...in oxymoron!"