News about "X terminals", the screen/keyboard/processor products
that form the user-interface part of X Windows (and do the job of
an "X Server") but provide no significant computational resources
to the application....

There is some similarity between these devices and "Network Computers"
and some broad similarity of concept with a SunRay.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Message-ID: <9otnsq$dgn$1@news.xmission.com>
NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Sep 2001 23:20:58 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: shell2.xmission.com
User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u))
Date: 26 Sep 2001 23:20:58 GMT
From: usenet0926@solution-consulting.com
Subject: NCDware pricing change 28 Sept 2001

If you have (or are planning to obtain) some used NCD Xterminals, 
you might consider getting a copy of NCDware (v 5.1) before Friday
[2001-09-28].

It appears that NCD is dropping that software package in favor of
their "NCBridge" software, which seems much more oriented to their
newer all-dancing, all-singing NetworkComputers.  

But the price will not be dropping; apparently it will be going from
$300 to $1000 (list, anyway) as of October 1, 2001.

A very nice person at NCD told me that the software license for
NCDware is non-transferable; I didn't ask specifically whether that
applies to the boot-images such as Xncdxpl, or to whatever other
goodies constitute "NCDware".

I recall reading that the earlier Xterminals from NCD shipped _with_
the boot software (I'm not sure whether this meant the code in NVRAM
or in the PCMCIA card found with some machines) included as part of
the purchase price.

As IANAL*, I have no idea what the legal implications are for someone
who owns and wants to use an older NCD Xterminal, for which they
possess the correct bootup software but did not obtain it directly
from NCD's anointed salespersons.  Seems to me they would have a
better basis for using it than most orphanware users, as NCD apparently
no longer sells/supports the older versions of their equipment/associated
software.

    [ * "I am not a lawyer." ]

For what it's worth, as I was inquiring about the approved
possibilities, I was told twice that my only choice now is to purchase
the $1000 NCBridge software (that's 2 quotes / n quotes, with n > 6).

Most recently, a very helpful fellow at ProActive (Jade, 801-355-1099)
evidently found a way to get the original $300 price, for orders
by/before Friday 28 Sept 2001.  Not that I'd want to reinforce him for
that sort of behavior, you understand.

Who knows?  Perhaps NCBridge is actually much better for all purposes
than NCDware, and will bring all its users unlimited delight.  I suppose
we'll find out as time passes...

ObDisclaimer: I do not work for ProActive, nor do I have any financial
stake in their operations, nor do I actually expect to be dealing with
them again, as my approach is more "DIY with trailing-edge hardware,
duct-tape and Linux" whenever possible.  

Other like-minded individuals should see

    http://tux.anu.edu.au/Projects/EPL403/

for alternatives; pointers welcomed for any Linux / other OSS project
that produces binaries usable on NCD Xterminals (some use the PowerPC
403GA chip).

 - Richard (mail to non-munged address above, > /dev/null after 2001-11-26)


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

  NCD X terminal mini HOWTO
  Ian Hodge, ihodge at nortel.ca
  v1.01, 9 August 1998

  This document describes how to connect an NCD X terminal to a UNIX
  host
  ______________________________________________________________________

  Table of Contents


  1. Copyright

  2. Introduction

     2.1 Summary of steps

  3. Requirements

     3.1 The X terminal
     3.2 Physical Connection
     3.3 NCD X server software

  4. Configuring the UNIX Host

     4.1 TFTP and BootP

  5. Configuring the NCD X terminal Boot Process

     5.1 Boot Monitor command syntax
     5.2 Boot Monitor Setup Menu
     5.3 X Terminal Configuration Files
     5.4 Logging on to the host

  6. Fonts and the X terminal

     6.1 The font server

  7. Miscellaneous

     7.1 Reference
     7.2 Equipment used in the preparation of this document
     7.3 Acknowledgments
     7.4 Outstanding Issues
     7.5 Feedback


  ______________________________________________________________________

  1.  Copyright

  The NCD X terminal mini HOWTO is copyright (C) 1998 by Ian Hodge.
  Linux HOWTO documents may be reproduced and distributed in whole or in
  part, in any medium physical or electronic, as long as this copyright
  notice is retained on all copies.


  2.  Introduction

  This document describes how an X terminal manufactured by NCD (Network
  Computing Devices) can be connected to and booted from a UNIX host
  using BootP (boot protocol). Many terminals are also capable of
  booting with RARP, NFS or locally from a PCMCIA card or over a serial
  link (either directly or with a modem).


  Although the material in this document was prepared based on
  experience with a single model of X terminal, much of the information
  applies to other models and other X terminals generally. There is also
  an Linux X terminal mini HOWTO document (declared obsolete by HOWTO
  maintainers at the time of writing and therefore possibly not
  available in all Linux distributions) which overlaps material from
  this document. That document covers X terminal information more
  generally.


  2.1.  Summary of steps

  The process of connecting an X terminal to a UNIX network can be
  summarized in the following steps:


  *  Physically connect the X terminal to the network.

  *  Configure the UNIX host you are going to boot from.

  *  Configure the X terminal boot procedure.

  *  Boot the X terminal.

  *  Log in to the network.



  3.  Requirements

  3.1.  The X terminal

  An X terminal is a device which communicates and displays over a
  network using a distributed network window system known as X.
  Typically, the terminal's X software, known as the X server, is
  retrieved from the network at boot time. Programs other then the X
  server software are not run locally on the X terminal (with some
  exceptions); instead, the X terminal displays programs running on
  other hosts on the network. The X terminal, therefore, is a type of
  network computer which uses the X protocol to access network
  resources.


  3.2.  Physical Connection

  The NCD X terminal (model Xncd19r was used in preparation of this
  document) has an RJ-45 (twisted pair) connector for use with 10baseT
  Ethernet. A hub is required to link more than two Ethernet devices
  using twisted pair. If the X terminal and its host are the only
  devices in the network, they may be connected with a 'null' cable
  which is described in the Linux Ethernet HOWTO document.


  3.3.  NCD X server software

  The terminal's X server software file is available from the
  manufacturer and presumably is provided with the terminal upon initial
  purchase. This file will reside on the boot host where it can be
  accessed by the X terminal when it boots. This file is specific to the
  terminal type but independent of boot host. The terminal can boot from
  any host which supports the boot communication protocol (explained
  later). In addition to X server, the X software may also include
  applications, like a window manager, which can run locally on the X
  terminal itself.


  4.  Configuring the UNIX Host

  At boot time, the X terminal retrieves files (including its X server
  software) from a remote host on the network. After the terminal boots,
  the X server software will control input, display, local clients and X
  protocol communication. The X server software is executed on the X
  terminal and therefore does not have to be software compatible with
  the host on which it resides.


  4.1.  TFTP and BootP

  Together, tftp (trivial file transfer protocol) and BootP (boot
  protocol server) are used on the remote host to allow the X terminal
  to retrieve its X server software and configuration files over the
  network. Both services are typically started by inetd (Internet
  Daemon).


  After the X terminal is powered up, if it is configured to boot from
  the network, it will send out a broadcast message using BootP (TCP/IP
  bootstrap protocol). This boot message will contain the X terminal's
  hardware (Ethernet) address which is used by the boot host to respond
  to the boot request.

  When a boot request is received by the remote host, inetd (listening
  on a port designated in /etc/services) starts the BootP daemon
  specified in /etc/inetd.conf.

  In file inetd.conf, create or uncomment lines that refer to TFTP and
  BootP. The final argument of the tftpd entry in the example below is
  the path of the directory containing the files required by the X
  terminal. Although directory names are not mandatory, for security
  reasons they should always be present as tftp access will then be
  restricted to files in specified directories.

  >From a sample file /etc/inetd.conf:

  # tftp service is provided primarily for booting.  Most sites
  # run this only on machines acting as "boot servers".
  tftp   dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/in.tftpd /usr/X11/lib/X11/ncd/
  bootps dgram udp wait root /usr/sbin/tcpd /usr/sbin/in.bootpd




  Upon activation, the BootP server daemon on the host will then read
  its database file /etc/bootptab. An entry for the X terminal must be
  placed in this file. Each entry contains a set of tags separated with
  ':' characters. The host name must be the very first tag in an entry.

  Useful bootptab tags:

     ip Address of the X terminal (eg 10.0.0.1).


     sm Subnet mask (eg 255.0.0.0). To understand the use of the subnet
        mask and other IP networking principles, consult the Linux NET-3
        (networking) HOWTO document.


     gw IP Address of gateway (eg 10.0.0.1).

     ht Hardware type - Ethernet in this example.


     ha Hardware address of X terminal (6 byte Ethernet address)

        According to the bootptab UNIX man page, the 'ha' tag must be
        preceded by the 'ht' tag. The X terminal's Ethernet address is
        displayed when the terminal is first powered on. The address
        appears as a series of 6 double digit hex numbers separated by
        colons (e.g. 00:00:A7:12:26:19).


     tc Table continuation or label of another entry in the BootP
        database. See the example below.


     ds IP address of domain name server (eg 10.0.0.3). Not required if
        DNS is not used for hostname resolution.


     bf Name of X terminal boot file (Usually the terminal model is used
        as the X server file name eg Xncd19r).


  The following is an example of the Boot protocol server database file,
  /etc/bootptab. The character '\' is used to escape the end-of-line
  character.


  # This is a general entry (here given the name default)
  # with information common to all BootP clients
  default:hd=/usr/X11/lib/X11/ncd/:\
          ds=10.0.0.3:\
          sm=255.0.0.0:\
          gw=10.0.0.1:\

  # X terminal entry with hostname myxterm
  # Notice the tc tag reference to the entry default
  myxterm:ht=ethernet:\
          ha=0x0000a7122619:\
          ip=10.0.0.2:\
          tc=default:\
          bf=Xncd19r:




  When a matching entry for the hardware address in the boot request is
  found in the bootptab file, a response is sent by bootpd with the
  corresponding IP address from the matching entry. File transfer can
  then take place over IP using TFTP.

  A hostname can be assigned to the X terminal by creating an entry on
  the boot host in the file /etc/hosts. This file is used to map
  hostnames to IP addresses. In the this example, the X terminal
  (address 10.0.0.2) has been assigned the hostname 'myxterm'.


  10.0.0.1        linuxhost       # The boot host
  10.0.0.2        myxterm         # X terminal




  5.  Configuring the NCD X terminal Boot Process

  After being powered up, the X terminal attempts to boot. This is the
  process where the X software is loaded into memory and executed. If
  the X terminal cannot boot, the Boot Monitor prompt '>' will appear.
  The Boot Monitor is firmware found in terminal PROMs (programmable
  read-only memory). With the basic Boot Monitor interface, it is
  possible to configure the terminal to boot and retrieve its X server
  software from the host. Use


  Configuration parameters set with the boot monitor are stored in NVRAM
  (Non-volatile Random-Access Memory) and are retained when the terminal
  is powered down.


  >From the boot monitor, the 'bt' command or a menu system can be used
  to boot the terminal. Functionality of the two methods largely
  overlaps but the menu provides control over more boot parameters.


  5.1.  Boot Monitor command syntax

  >bt file terminal_IP host_IP gateway_IP subnet_mask



     file
        The name of the file retrieved from the remote host containing
        the X server software used by the X terminal to boot (eg
        "Xncd19r"). Check that this file name is the same as the file
        name is found in the X terminal entry in the bootptab file on
        the host (explained in the previous section).


     terminal_IP
        The IP address assigned to the X terminal (eg 10.0.0.2). Again,
        this IP address should be the same as the address assigned in
        the X terminal entry of the bootptab file on the host.


     host_IP
        The IP address of the boot host (eg 10.0.0.1).


     gateway
        The IP address of the subnet gateway (eg 10.0.0.1)


     subnet_mask
        The subnet mask, specified as a decimal IP address or as a
        hexadecimal number (eg 255.0.0.0 or ff000000).


  5.2.  Boot Monitor Setup Menu

  The setup menus are accessed by pressing the 'Setup' key or typing
  'se' from the boot monitor '>' prompt.


     Get IP Addresses From
        The IP address of the X terminal should be obtained from boot
        monitor configuration stored in NVRAM. Only select IP address
        from the remote host.


     Terminal IP Address
        The IP address assigned to the X terminal (eg 10.0.0.2). This is
        the same as 'terminal_IP' parameter above.


     First Boot Host IP Address
        The IP address of the boot host (eg 10.0.0.1). This is the same
        as 'host_IP' parameter above.


     Gateway IP Address
        The IP address of the subnet gateway. This is the same as
        'gateway' parameter above.


     Subnet Mask
        The subnet mask, specified as a decimal IP address. This is the
        same as the 'subnet_mask' parameter above.


     Broadcast IP Address
        The IP address used to broadcast to the subnet. (eg
        10.255.255.255)


     Boot File
        The name of the file retrieved from the remote host containing
        the X server software used by the X terminal to boot (eg
        "Xncd19r"). This is the same as 'file' parameter described
        above.


     TFTP Boot Directory
        The name of the directory on the host which contains the boot
        file (eg "/usr/X11/lib/X11/ncd/" or "/tftpboot/").


     Config file
        The name of the X terminal configuration file on the remote host
        (See below).


     UNIX Config Directory
        Name of the directory containing X terminal configuration files
        (eg "/usr/X11/lib/X11/ncd/").


     TFTP Order, NFS Order, Local Order
        Assign '1' to the preferred method for booting. Assign '1' to
        TFTP when booting from a host using BootP.


  5.3.  X Terminal Configuration Files

  During the boot process, the X terminal will attempt to transfer and
  load files from the boot host. These files are not required for the X
  terminal to boot successfully. If a file is not found, the terminal
  will use default settings.

  Configuration Files transferred to the X terminal at boot time:

  *  X terminal configuration file (eg ncd.conf) used to retain terminal
     settings.

  *  Color file (eg rgb.txt).

  *  X key symbol database (eg XKeysymDB).

  *  Font directory files (eg font.dir, font.alias).


  After a successful boot, the X terminal console window with a menu bar
  should appear. The terminal setup key toggles display of this console
  window. From the console window 'setup' pull-down menu, terminal
  characteristics can be viewed, altered and saved on the boot host in
  the configuration file which can be used in future sessions.

  If TFTP is being used to transfer files from the boot host, then file
  permission must be world readable. Similarly, to save a configuration
  file to the boot host, the file must already exist and with world
  write permission enabled. If secure TFTP is used (this is recommended
  for security reasons), then file access is possible only through
  specified directories.


  5.4.  Logging on to the host

  >From the X terminal console window menu bar, select the 'terminals'
  pull-down menu and choose 'New Telnet...'. When the telnet window
  appears, insert the address of a network host in the service entry and
  click including a window manager, can be started from the telnet
  window.


  6.  Fonts and the X terminal

  The X terminal comes with a small set of fonts. In the X terminal
  setup menus and configuration files, these fonts are referred to as
  fonts are desirable. Fonts can be added by specifying font paths in X
  terminal console setup menus, configuration files or by using the xset
  command.


  Once the X server software is running on the X terminal, the font path
  can modified or queried with the command xset.

  To query the X server:

  xset -q


  To add a font entry:

  xset +fp <path>


  To remove a font entry:

  xset -fp <path>




  6.1.  The font server

  The font server (xfs) runs on a network host and retrieves fonts for
  the X terminal and other network clients. The font server improves
  font retrieval time and provides its clients access to more fonts then
  would otherwise be possible with tftp. Font server software is part of
  many Linux distributions and has also been incorporated into X
  consortium software available from ftp.x.org <ftp://ftp.x.org>.

  To indicate the use of a font server, a tcp service entry is used
  instead of a font path in the X terminal's host resident configuration
  file or console setup menu.


  Format of tcp service entry:

  tcp/<IP address of font server>:<port used by font server>



  Example:

  tcp/10.0.0.1:7100




  An example of an entry in the X terminal configuration file found on
  the boot host:


  xserver-default-font-path = {
          { "tcp/10.0.0.1:7100" }
          { "built-ins" }
  }



  The xset command with the tcp service entry can used to add the font
  server to the path:


  xset +fp tcp/10.0.0.1:7100




  WARNING: Certain versions of NCDware require the font server entry to
  be listed first before X terminal 'built-in' fonts. This is contrary
  to the NCD documentation "System Administrator's Guide for UNIX
  Systems".  Experiment with the order of the font path and verify it
  with the


  On the font server host, the server is started at boot time from the
  rc.local startup script. The font server (xfs) is started with the
  following command:


  xfs -config <config file path> -port <font server port number>



  The standard font server port is 7100.

  Example:


  xfs -config /usr/X11/lib/X11/fs/config -port 7100




  Example font server configuration file:






  # font server configuration file
  # $XConsortium: config.cpp,v 1.7 91/08/22 11:39:59 rws Exp $
  clone-self = on
  use-syslog = on
  catalog = /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/
  error-file = /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fs/fs-errors
  # in decipoints
  default-point-size = 120
  default-resolutions = 75,75,100,100




  7.  Miscellaneous

  7.1.  Reference

  Unix man pages: bootpd(8), tftpd(8), bootptab(5), xdm(1x), xfs(1),
  fsinfo(1), xset(1), inetd(8)

  Linux Ethernet HOWTO document, Linux Net-3 (Networking) HOWTO document

  NCD Techtips Archive <ftp://ftp.ncd.com/pub/ncd/Archive/NCD-
  Articles/index.html>

  NCD Techtips Archive Mirror at CERN <http://wsspinfo.cern.ch/file/NCD-
  Articles/>

  NCDware System Administrator's Guide for UNIX Systems


  7.2.  Equipment used in the preparation of this document

  X terminal: NCD model NCD19r with 19 monochrome monitor 1280x1024 8M
  RAM

  X server software: NCDware  V3.2.CV 19r_s

  Remote Host: IBM Cyrix 686 P150+ running Slackware (Linux kernel
  version 2.0.31)

  Remote Host: IBM Cyrix M2 200 MMX running Red Hat 5.0 (Linux kernel
  version 2.0.32)

  Network Card: 10 base T Ethernet card (ne 2000 clone) and 8 port hub

  Font server version 2 release number 6300


  7.3.  Acknowledgments

  I would like to thank Michael de Lind van Wijngaarden, Jamal Hadi-
  Salim and Dwight Hodge for assistance in the preparation of this
  document.

  7.4.  Outstanding Issues


  *  Is it possible or wise to start the font server using inetd?

  *  If the remote host running the font server is powered down but
     later comes up again, with the font server active, the X terminal
     may fail to retrieve its fonts. The font path entry has to be re-
     entered with the console menu or xset. Why?


  *  The date of the error file designated in the font server config
     file is changed when xfs is in use but the file is always empty.

  *  Are there host based diagnostics for the font server?

  *  Are the procedures for other models of X terminals roughly similar?

  *  What about XDM?

  *  What is the procedure to boot the X terminal using NFS (Network
     File System) or RARP (Reverse Address Resolution Protocol)?

  *  The following messages appear in the X terminal Console. I am
     suspicious that they come from xfree86 extensions to X which are
     not part of the X terminal server. Can someone confirm or deny
     this?

     %XSERVER-I-NEWCLIENT, host "localhost" connected with blank authorization
     %XSERVER-W-NOEXTENSION, client attempted to use non-existent extension "BIG-REQUESTS"
     %XSERVER-W-NOEXTENSION, client attempted to use non-existent extension "XKEYBOARD"
     %XSERVER-W-NOEXTENSION, client attempted to use non-existent extension "XFree86-Misc"



  7.5.  Feedback

  Please write to ihodge at nortel.ca with any comments, suggestions or
  contributions.


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Setup information and files for Hewlett-Packard "Envizex" P-Series
X-terminals may be found at:

    http://www.ductape.net/~brianm/xterm/

thanks to Brian McElroy of Tek Systems.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.10.9908272333340.5706-100000@dingo.cc.uq.edu.au>
References: <37A04463.7221A23A@titan.byu.edu> <7nq6tq$k7u$5@newsfeeds.rpi.edu>
 <37A08500.36F4238F@titan.byu.edu> <37A086AB.D95A7D86@titan.byu.edu>
<7nsq4e$evg$4@newsfeeds.rpi.edu> <37BD95C9.9C278458@sensenet.com>
Organization: University of Queensland
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:44:15 +1000
From: Joel Hatton <uqjhatto@mailbox.uq.edu.au>
To: Maxwell MacLeod <max@sensenet.com>
Subject: Re: denied by the xhost command

On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Maxwell MacLeod wrote:
> > >
> > > ok, got the environment variable right.  But when, as su on the machine
> > > I want to
> > > display on (this is the client I believe), I type xhost +<hostname>, I

from this original question it sounds like you were typing the xhost
command on the correct machine (providing you were typing the hostname of
the machine you were telneting to!) and this was the reason I advised to
upgrade your server - xfree has a known bug with this recently. However,
the explanation you've been given was comprehensive and worthwhile for
sure.

> *** So, in the telnet window to the remote machine R, I tell it to
> display windows on my local machine by using the export DISPLAY command
> above, correct?
>
> I assume that the remote X server is therefore communicating with my
> local X server, which in turn is displaying the client windows and so
> on. Have I got it OK?

pretty well.

just get over the idea of a remote 'X server' - the remote machine is
functioning merely as an application server; the applications are then
displayed on your *local* "X server". These applications are clients to
your X server. Confusion sets in when we look at the bigger picture of
your _machine_ being a client to the remote one... Play it safe and
don't think about it that way!


joel
-- HelpDesk, ITS, Uni of Qld, Australia - phone [+61] [07] 33654400|
|opinions expressed herein are mine alone and may not be forwarded!|
|plaintext/ascii messages only, all unsolicited attachments deleted|
|to send me a file/document see http://www.uq.edu.au/~uqjhatto/#ftp|

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

HINT for UNIX:

> anybody got a one-line command line script that will set your 
> display for remote usage without having to go through the 
> who | grep uid and setenv commands?

# for C shell

setenv DISPLAY `who am i | cut -d '(' -f 2 | cut -d ')' -f 1`:0.0

# for Korn shell (but not for historic Bourne shell)

export DISPLAY=`who am i | cut -d '(' -f 2 | cut -d ')' -f 1`:0.0


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
Message-ID: <Fa2x3.21606$gO1.796769@news2.giganews.com>
References: <37C34072.75B7FAA5@surfsouth.com>
	<m3emgs9ytf.fsf@loafer.worldhq.org>
Reply-To: cbbrowne@hex.net
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 03:06:13 GMT
From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@news.hex.net>
Subject: Re: Is there any make-a-pc-into-an-X-terminal software?

On 24 Aug 1999 23:09:00 -0700, Chris Mahmood <chriskm@empirenet.com> wrote:
>Richard James Panturis Giuly <rgiuly@surfsouth.com> writes:
>>
>> I'd like to make an i486 into an x terminal. Is there any free software
>> to do this?
>
>uh, Linux and XFree maybe?

If memory serves, DLX

    http://olymp.wu-wien.ac.at/usr/h93/h9301726/dlx.html

is a floppy-based distribution that includes X.

   [alternate site:  ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/linux/dlx/ ]

There's one problem with turning a 486 box into an X terminal, and
that is that it is not likely to be really satisfactory without at
least 16MB of RAM, and preferably a bit more.

XFree86 can benefit lots from more memory and from the fast video
chipsets that have come since the 486 days.

The outgrowth of PCI over the last four years has resulted in:
1- The fast PCI bus,
2- Incredibly faster, cheap video cards,
3- Fast, cheap RAM.

Expanding a 486 box past 16MB is liable to prove challenging; VLB
motherboards are commonly limited to 4 slots, and finding 32 pin SIMMs
bigger than 4MB is not a trivial task.

-- 
"KDE isn't a window manager.  It *includes* one, but kwm is only one
of *many* components of KDE.  And kwm is an *optional* component.
GNOME is the same, except that it doesn't include a wm..."
-- 
cbbrowne@hex.net
cbbrowne@ntlug.org- <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

There is also this success story on setting up old PCs as X Terminals to
connect to Linux:

    http://www.menet.umn.edu/~kaszeta/unix/xterminal/index.html

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
Message-ID: <37C6FFD7.4820759C@wfw.wtb.tue.nl>
References: <37C34072.75B7FAA5@surfsouth.com>
<m3emgs9ytf.fsf@loafer.worldhq.org> <Fa2x3.21606$gO1.796769@news2.giganews.com>
Organization: Eindhoven University of Technology
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:15:03 +0200
From: Leo Wouters <leo@wfw.wtb.tue.nl>
Subject: Re: Is there any make-a-pc-into-an-X-terminal software?

We have been using 486 (and even 386) systems as X-terminals for over
5 years and none of them had more than 8 Mb RAM.

But then, they were real X-terminals, running a bare Linux 1.0 kernel
and the X-server (no shells, gettty's , NFS mounted file system,
diskless, etc) connecting trough xdm to other systems.

Only requirement was 1MB of video memory, only problem (on 4 MB
systems) were applications that used a lot of different fonts !

Leo

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.x
Message-ID: <rsebe2cdj7130@news.supernews.com>
References: <37C34072.75B7FAA5@surfsouth.com>
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:30:58 GMT
From: bsingh@flash.net
Subject: Re: Is there any make-a-pc-into-an-X-terminal software?

If you want to run your X on PC with Microsoft windows ... Here is small
but effect X-server..
download MI/X from MicroImages' is http://www.microimages.com/ in the
"Free Downloads" section.

 [Intel-processor versions are no longer free, although Mac OS 9 versions are.]
 [Mac OS X can use Apple's X server.]

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro
Message-ID: <6c6n3f$ona$1@paperboy.ids.net>
References: <34E60633.EC0E51BE@ix.netcom.com>
X-Trace: paperboy.ids.net 887545775 25322 (None) 155.212.90.187
Organization: The Retro-Computing Society of RI
Reply-To: mike@kronos.egr-ri.ids.net
Date: 15 Feb 1998 00:00:00 GMT
From: mike@kronos.egr-ri.ids.net (Mike Umbricht)
Subject: Re: VT1200 infor/questions

In article <34E60633.EC0E51BE@ix.netcom.com>,
Tony Robinson <adr76@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>
> Hello I have a VT1200 box here that I would like to tinker with, any
> infor on keyboard/mouse and vid output/cables/etc...

The keyboard is LK401 or LK201.  It uses a standard DEC 'puck' part #
VSXXX-AA (or VSXXX-GA) for the mouse.


It is a monochrome monitor, and the rotary switch chooses the model. 
Mine is Terminal Manager V2.2 and has the following choices:
 
1) VR150        15"     1024 x 864      60 Hz.
2) VR319        19"     1280 x 1024     72 Hz.
3) VR262        19"     1024 x 864      60 Hz.
4) undefined
5) VR315        ?
6) undefined

I built a TNC to BNC cable for use w/ my VR319 monitor.

-mike

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Date: 16 Sep 1999 19:42:02 GMT
Organization: Compaq Computer Corporation
Message-ID: <7rrh6a$nbe$1@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>
From: Hoff Hoffman <hoffman@xdelta.zko.dec.nospam>
Subject: Re: Digital VT model# VX10A-AA ?????


In article <7rp9s2$bfb$2@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Headley Sappleton"
<hsappleton@sprintmail.com> writes:
:I just picked up this piece of computer hardware. It is a pizza box type of
:thing, that has the marking: "Digital" obviously a refference to Digital
:computers. Also written on it id VT 1200 and model# VX10A-AA...

  An X Terminal.  Please see the VXT directory on the OpenVMS Freeware
  for related documentation...  (Pointers to the Freeware are in the
  OpenVMS FAQ...)

 --------------------------- pure personal opinion ---------------------------
   Hoff (Stephen) Hoffman   OpenVMS Engineering   hoffman#xdelta.zko.dec.com

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Newsgroups: redhat.networking.general,comp.terminals
Organization: A Customer of Tele2
X-Sender: s-61053@d212-151-146-241.swipnet.se
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 10:58:53 GMT
Message-ID: <j27Y4.1780$b55.4484@nntpserver.swip.net>
From: Patric Sandberg <patric.sandberg@swipnet.se>
Subject: Xterminal and Redhat linux, mini How-To

 Hello All,

 I have found out that to get a Xterminal (NCD 17c booted with Xncd17c) to
work with RedHat Linux 6.2 you have to;

 a) switch from Gnome
 The reason being that Gnome is not very advanced technically, they have cut
many corners in the development and also use some XFree86 proprietary
extension to X not available on the NCD terminal.

 b) use either xdm or kdm as the display manager
 Change /etc/sysconfig/desktop to contain KDE instead of GNOME
 And/or change /etc/X11/prefdm to point out 'xdm' as the manager instead of
'kdm' (I use kdm because it looks better).

 c) Change /etc/X11/xdm/Xaccess to have a '*' entry (there is one, just remove
the hash mark)

 d) Change /etc/X11/xdm/xdm-config in commenting out the
DisplayManager.requestport line

Now this was kind of trivial right?

All this is down to both the security settings of RedHat (good) and the
technical knowhow of the Gnome team (bad). I myself have now switched to KDE,
all my favourite tools exist in other incarnations as KDE apps. I find Gnome
sort of like an Apple, all colour and no content?

Cheers,
Patrick

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: redhat.networking.general, comp.terminals
Message-ID: <omi3js0bia3blsalhla7tf5dfhs2ls68fa@4ax.com>
References: <j27Y4.1780$b55.4484@nntpserver.swip.net>
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 01:47:15 GMT
From: Kenneth Seefried <kseefried@digitalmojo.com>
Subject: Re: Xterminal and Redhat linux, mini How-To

On Sun, 28 May 2000 10:58:53 GMT, patric.sandberg@swipnet.se (Patric
Sandberg) wrote:
> a) switch from Gnome

True.  The Gnome people have definately not learned the lessons the
rest of us did years ago about supporting remote clients
(well...servers in X parlance).  The assumption that the server is
running on a particular OS or Server version is generally bad in X.

> b) use either xdm or kdm as the display manager

I think XDM is lighter weight than KDM, and might be preferable on
small memory xterminals.

>Now this was kind of trivial right?

Sorta, but such things should always be documented for the next guy
down the pipe.

>I myself have now switched to KDE,

Me too...I think it looks and behaves much better than Gnome.

However, if you've got a small memory xterminal (<= 8M), you might
find using one of the older, smaller window managers such as TWM will
help performance quite a bit.  Most people don't really need all that
cutsy window dressing that KDE (and Gnome) provide.

Of course, once I bumped my MGX to 72MB, all I had to worry about was
network speed. :-)


- Ken Seefried
  CTO, DigitalMoJo
  Information Security Consulting, Training & Management

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 09:48:04 -0500
Organization: Avalon Networks Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Message-ID: <396DD6A3.FA016759@iercomputer.com>
From: Paul Tucker <paul@iercomputer.com>
Subject: NCD Xterminals

Hello,

I have the following for sale.  If anybody is interested, please email
me for more information.

NCD HMX-Pro
NCD HMX
NCD monitors, various models--please inquire.

IER Computer specializes in NCD xterminals.  If you are in the market to
buy or sell, please give us a call.

hank you for your time,
--
Paul Tucker
IER Computer
Iowa Electronic Recovery
(319)351-3058
paul@iercomputer

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Message-ID: <9gl6r2$mcn$1@rdel.co.uk>
References: <M7cyShwo3vNd@tachxxsoftxxconsult>
    <3B2C3139.33F44B47@ui.urban.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 175.100.12.103
Organization: Thales
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:29:22 +0100
From: "Gordon Pimblott" <gordon.pimblott@uk.thalesgroup.com>
Subject: Re: modern day x-terminals

"Jim Becker" <jbecker@ui.urban.org> wrote in message
news:3B2C3139.33F44B47@ui.urban.org...
> Wayne Sewell wrote:
> >
> > Does anybody know of a currently supported x-terminal?  Basically something
> > like the vxt 2000+, but with current hardware and software.  I have a xvt,
> > but I don't really use it.  It's slow and doesn't have that much memory.

> > Also, most of my network is 100 megabit, but of course the ancient vxt is
> > only 10.
>
> I used to use and like NCD's X terminals (http://www.ncd.com/). They
> were good products, and included support for the VMS environment. I'm
> not familiar with NCD's current Explora line. I don't know whether NCD
> is still friendly to VMS.
>
> > Before anybody mentions emulation on PCs, I do *not* want to use a PC
> > for this.
>
> I tend to agree. In my experience, the PC-based X emulators don't
> behave as well as either an X terminal or an X workstation/console.
> You don't drag windows across the PC display, you smear them across.
> Display updates take longer. However, since I currently have no X
> terminals at my disposal, I must settle for a PC-based X emulator.
>
> --
> Jim Becker
> The Urban Institute (http://www.urban.org/)
> Encompass (http://www.encompassus.org/)
> ESILUG (http://encompasserve.org/lugs/esilug/)


We currently use the NC900 range from NCD which sems to be the current
replacement for their "classic" X terminal. It does alot more if you want it
(i.e. JAVA console), but can be configured to be just an X terminal. They
still appear to be reasonably VMS friendly.

Gordon Pimblott


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Path: mark.usec.sun.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!newsfeed.frii.net
     !news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net
     !cyclone2.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com
     !newsfeed.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
Message-ID: <3B2F6ADB.1EBB7433@srv.net>
References: <M7cyShwo3vNd@tachxxsoftxxconsult> <9gl5bp$g6p@gap.cco.caltech.edu>
Organization: WebUseNet Corp. - ReInventing The UseNet
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win98; U)
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:08:11 -0600
From: Kevin Handy <kth@srv.net>
Subject: Re: modern day x-terminals

David Mathog wrote:
> 
> In article <M7cyShwo3vNd@tachxxsoftxxconsult>, 
  wayne@tachysoft.xxx.563109.killspam.015d (Wayne Sewell) writes:
> >
> > Does anybody know of a currently supported x-terminal?  Basically something
> > like the vxt 2000+, but with current hardware and software.  I have a xvt,
> > but I don't really use it.  It's slow and doesn't have that much memory.
> > Also, most of my network is 100 megabit, but of course the ancient vxt is
> > only 10 Mbps.
> >
> >
> > Before anybody mentions emulation on PCs, I do *not* want to use a PC for
> > this. I would prefer a dedicated x-terminal, if such are still being
> > manufactured.
>
> Well, even though you said not to mention it...
> 
> 1.  Take a PC
> 2.  Install Linux or BSD on it.
> 3.  Configure it to run nothing but X11, and to do that at start up.
> 
> and you have a machine that's for all intents and purposes a dedicated 
> X-terminal.  I think you could even save this configuration onto a CDROM,
> and boot from that.  So that nobody could monkey with the settings.


Something like these

	http://www.thinknic.com/about/index.html

They use a CDROM for the OS loading, flash ROM for saving settings,
and have no floppy/hard disk to load virus into.

Boots up in Linux, and I've heard (but not done myself) that it boots
up ready to act as an X terminal.

$320 with monitor, $200 without.

 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.terminals
References: <3c01a040.436224625@news.stcl1.mi.home.com>
    <90efcedd.0111271809.504dd91a@posting.google.com>
    <3c045b8f.9020593@news.stcl1.mi.home.com> <3c0d88f6.0@oracle.zianet.com>
    <3c0fcfdd.356253812@news.stcl1.mi.home.com>
Message-ID: <3c141a91.0@oracle.zianet.com>
Organization: NMIX
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 19:14:54 -0700
From: Ralph McElmurry <rmcelmurry@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Neoware/HDS @Workstation Info

"Michael Dombrowski" <legodude@hammycorp.com> wrote in message
news:3c0fcfdd.356253812@news.stcl1.mi.home.com...
>
> I got them, but wading through and seeing what you need is confusing
> as hell and time consuming as all getout. Plus, I'm not sure if that
> is causing my problem, I'd rather not spend 5 hours making a config
> file that might be bad and then not getting it to work. If I had a
> config that was known good I could debug my problems easier.
>
> Mike
>
> >There may be manuals for the different NetOs versions on the Neoware web
> >site.
> >
> >"Michael Dombrowski" <legodude@hammycorp.com> wrote in message
> >news:3c045b8f.9020593@news.stcl1.mi.home.com...
> >> On 27 Nov 2001 18:10:00 -0800, bolke@xs4all.nl (Bolke de Bruin) wrote:
> >>
> >> >legodude@hammycorp.com (Michael Dombrowski) wrote in message
> >> >news:<3c01a040.436224625@news.stcl1.mi.home.com>...
> >> >>
> >> >> I have acquired software for my @Workstation but I lack any kind of
> >> >> documentation for it. More specificially, I have it loading its boot
> >> >> file via NFS and after the file loads the screen blanks and stays that
> >> >> way. I assume it is the result of not having any sort of configuration
> >> >> files. If anyone could help me out I'd much appreciate it then put the
> >> >> info up for others to see.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mike
> >> >
> >> >I dont think it is missing out on some config files,
> >> >as the station will tell you that. When the screen blanks
> >> >it is supposed to be booting the netOS software.
> >> >
> >> >btw what version of the software have you got?
> >> >
> >> >Bolke
> >>
> >> I haven't a clue what version, and that's only part of my problem. A
> >> kind soul pointed me to a site with a tarball of the software and saod
> >> it should work but it comes without any docs or config files. I'm not
> >> even sure if it's the right software for my terminal, it boots
> >> V20-D.hds which seems right to me but I may be wrong. If you could
> >> provide me with some pointers as to what I need to do I would be very
> >> happy. At this point it is either wrong software or user error and I'm
> >> leaning heavily towards user error.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Mike


I have a relatively recent @workstation and the software but I don't have it
hooked up now. It was working on my UnixWare server before but later
developed a problem with two window managers running. I have an older one
prior to the @workstation models but could not find a copy of the opsys for
it on the Neoware site and they did not return any mail about it. If I find
the config file still on the server on Monday, I'll mail it to you


Ralph

 ..............................................................................

what is in  ftp://ftp.neoware.com/outgoing/  ?


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Path: utkcs2!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!torn!utzoo!censor
      !comspec!scocan!zackx
Organization: SCO Canada, Inc.
Message-ID: <1992Jun30.024205.29491@sco.COM>
Sender: news@sco.COM (News administration)
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1992 02:42:05 GMT
From: zackx@sco.COM (Zack Xu)
Subject: Re: Buying X-Terminal for Home Use


I recently asked for information about getting an X-terminal for home use.
My sincere thanks to many helpful netters for their advice.  But my impression
is that getting an X-terminal for home use is not very affordable, with that
kind of money, I can get a 486 or even a low-end workstation from Sun or HP.

Here are the responses I received.  Once again, thanks alot!

Zack

> From me
> 
> Hi.  I need some advice on buying an X-terminal for home use.  I haven't
> decided on buying one yet, but I'd like to get some information first.
> 
> The X-terminal will connect to either a workstation (DEC3100, or one of
> HP9000 series, or IBM RT, or SUN4...) in a university, OR a 486 running
> SCO UNIX in a company.  The kind of work I do is all very UNIX, like vi,
> emacs, cc, C debugger, rn, bitmap, etc. under either X-Window or Motif,
> preferably tvtwm, :-)  (the kind of thing you normally do on a UNIX work-
> station).
> 
> The X-terminal will be at my home connecting to the machines (listed above)
> in the same city via telephone line.
> 
> Since I don't know much about X-terminals, modems, etc., I wish to know
> if it's feasible/possible to run the things I wished on this X-terminal
> at home (like how I do them on the workstation in office)?
> Do I need to buy a fast (9600) modem to run X through phone line?  Even
> then how is the speed??  I don't want to wait for 60 seconds to bring up
> an xterm or a calculator.
> 
> How much does a X-terminal cost these days? (not too shabby, but not too
> expenseive)  What are the brands available on the market?  The kind of things
> I need to know before making a decision? (e.g. warranties, screen size, etc.?)
> 
> I really like to hear your advice!!  Also please suggest any relevant
> books on purchasing an X-terminals.
> 
> Is there another newsgroup more appropriate for me to post this message?
> 
> From: Raymond Chui <rchui@nswc.navy.mil>
> 
> 
> I think you are very rich. The price for X-Terminal range
> between $2500.00(black-white,low resolution, 15") to
> $5000.00(color, resolution 1280x1024, 19").
> Price for 9600 Baud modem about $350.00 to $900.00
> Your X-Terminal in your office connected on Ethernet
> (I assume) is 10 Mbps, your modem only 9600 Baud.
> 8 bits per byte. 8x9600=76800 bits per second(bps).
> 76800 << 10 Mbps( much much less than).
> Well, you can establish a T1 link(1.445 Mbps) between
> your office and your home.
> about $45k to $60k for installation.
> about $35K flat annual rate.
> about $2000.00 high speed serial link device.
> 
> Or your establish a T3 link(45 Mbps). I don't want to
> know that price.
> 
> Or establish Frame Relay link. I don't know the price for
> installation and equipment.
> Frame Relay don't charge flat annual rate, instead charge
> the date packet(8 bits) through output/input. This will much
> lower price if your use too much.
> -- 
> Raymond H. Chui
> NSWC U33
> 10901 New Hampshire Ave.
> Silver Spring, MD 20903-5000
> Voice:(301)394-5192 Fax:(301)394-5835
> E-Mail:rchui@corona.nswc.navy.mil
>  _ __                                  _    ,   __
> ' )  )                           /    ' )  /   /  ) /
>  /--' __. , , ____   ______   __/      /--/   /    /_  . . o
> /  \_(_(_(_/_/) ) )_(_) /) )_(_(_     /  ( o (__/ / /_(_/_(_
>           /
>          '
> Received: by gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca id <18459>; Thu, 25 Jun 1992 16:19:13 -0400
> From:	John Dorn <nordgraf@utcs.utoronto.ca>
> 
> 
> I work for a company that sells GraphOn and Visual X terminals.
> Give me a call, and I can tell you all about remote X and give you a good
> pric on a demo terminal.
> regards
>
> John Dorn
> 338-7329
> Nord graph
> Oakville
>
>
> From: Vance Shipley <vances@xenitec.on.ca>
> 
> In article <1992Jun24.190601.6773@sco.COM> you write:
> >
> >Hi.  I need some advice on buying an X-terminal for home use.  I haven't
> >decided on buying one yet, but I'd like to get some information first.
> >
> 
> You will undoubtably get a number of messages telling you this will not work.
> Don't let them discourage you too much.  Yes it is true that X over a modem
> can be very slow.  I ran PC-Xsight, from SCO/Locus on a notebook from home.
> I used FTP to run slip over the internal 2400 baud modem to my Opendesktop
> system at work.  It was an experiment, and as such it was a success. It took
> about five minutes to draw the screen in graphics.  It was basically unusable.
> 
> There are several ways to improve the performance.  A 9600 baud modem would
> quadruple the performance I observed.  Another way is to subscribe to centrex
> data from Bell Canada.  For about $70/month you can have dialup 56K at home.
> The other end will also be $70 though.  There is also an equipment cost, about
> $1000 an end or you can rent.
> 
> There is an improved protocol for running X over low bit rate streams called
> XRemote.  It was developed by NCD, the X terminal people.  I understand that
> MIT is incorporating XRemote into a future release of X11.  XRemote removes
> or compresses a lot of overhead in the X protocol.
> 
> I recently saw an ad for an X terminal for under a grand.  It was Black and 
> White though.  Good luck.
> 
> -- 
> Vance Shipley 
> vances@xenitec.on.ca   vances@ltg.uucp   ..uunet.ca!xenitec!vances
>
>
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 92 10:31:11 EDT
> From: Ira Ekhaus <ibe1109@etbsun1.draper.com>
> 
> zack,
> 
> There is this magazine "workstation News" that has lots of 
> ads for xterminals ( i've seen some advertised for < $1000 in mono) . 
> Also look in X type journals.
> 
> After you've bought your terminal,
> you can go to misc.forsale.computer and get a used v32.2 modem for ~$300.
> 
> Instead of a modem, maybe you could inquire about an ISDN
> connection in your area.
> 
> Also, could post a summary?
> 
> Ira
> ekhaus@draper.com
> Phone: 617 258 1109
> Draper Laboratories m.s. 7c
> 555 Technology Square
> Cambridge, MA
-- 
========================================================================
  Zack Xu               SCO Canada Inc.
  zackx@sco.com         130 Bloor Street West, 10th Floor
  416-922-1937          Toronto, Ontario Canada M5S 1N5


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2002 19:22:27 GMT
Organization: AT&T Broadband
Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
Message-ID: <3DC96BF1.1060206@not_airmail.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211061130160.14762-100000@aneto.meph.iut-tlse3.fr>
From: Chris Cox <ccox_not@not_airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Solaris 8 and X Terminals

François Albernhe wrote:
> I have a Solaris 9 box and I need to use it from X terminal
> mainly NCD. Up to now it is impossible to have it correctly working
> : very slow connection, freeze of the terminal....
> My questions are :
> - Is it possible to have Xterms working with Solaris8 ( they work
> perfectelly with Solaris 2.5.1).

I would say yes (haven't worked with an NCD for several years though).


> - If yes how to make it ?

I used to use an NCD 17c... the biggest problem was the 8MB (after
I upgraded it from 4MB!)... memory is tight (very tight) on these
boxes.  The ethernet was 10Base-2, sluggish if you're pumping
all window management across the wire.  Go with simple wm's... as
well as anything else to reduce the traffic and memory load
to the NCD (8-bit display max).

The chip on the NCD was a Motorola MC68000 (maybe a 68010)... not
a great performer in today's terms... but reasonable back in
the late 80's and early 90's.  I think even "high end" X-terminals
used the MIPS chip... still pretty sluggish in today's terms.

> - If not did I have to jump back to Solaris 2.5 (it seems stupid)
> or to jump to Linux.

I will say that a small Linux box works perfectly as an X-terminal
substitute... I have configured this often.  This could be an
alternative (?).  Linux works well as a primary desktop and
server... might suit your needs there as well (if you need
Solaris though, this won't be a option).  I have also used
Solaris 8/Intel... lots of hardware compatability pitfalls,
but if you're willing to configure specifically for that,
you'll be fine using those as an X-terminal substitute as well.
Shoot, at 8-bits, a SparcStation 5 is a reasonable X-terminal...
though a bit sluggish with Solaris 8 loaded (you can probably
pick these up from a company before they scrap them if you
are fortunate).

If you want to buy new from Sun... there's always the
Sun Ray.... maybe some of these are in the used channels
now as well.  Could be a good deal for your situtation.

Unless you simply love your old NCD's... I would move
to something better (Sun Rays, Linux clients, old-SPARC
clients, Solaris8/Intel clients... choice depends on what
you have what you are willing to spend).


 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris
Date: Wed, 6 Nov 2002 22:01:04 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto, Computing and Networking Services
Message-ID: <H56D5s.1F5x@alfalfa.utcs.utoronto.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211061130160.14762-100000@aneto.meph.iut-tlse3.fr>
From: Mike Peterson <mikep@enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re: Solaris 8 and X Terminals

In article <Pine.LNX.4.44.0211061130160.14762-100000@aneto.meph.iut-tlse3.fr>,
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_Albernhe?=  <albernhe@aneto.meph.iut-tlse3.fr> wrote:
>
> I have a Solaris 9 box and I need to use it from X terminal
> mainly NCD. Up to now it is impossible to have it correctly working
> : very slow connection, freeze of the terminal....
>
> My questions are :
> - Is it possible to have Xterms working with Solaris8 ( they work
>   perfectly with Solaris 2.5.1).

We are using several NCD Xterminals (mainly MCX 8-bit colour) running
with our Solaris 8 server; as another poster says, make sure you have
lots of memory (ours have 6 MB code, 20 MB data on average) if you're
going to run things with lots of windows/widgets.

We found GNOME is extremely slow for NCD's using a shared 10-BaseT
network. It improved dramatically when we turned off "Fill window
thumbnails with screen contents" in the Desk Guide Settings - that was
downloading the window contents from each NCD several times a second,
then sending it back for redisplay -- brutal!

Also make sure your server has lots of memory if your running GNOME,
especially if you're using Mozilla or Netscape 6 at the same time - I'd
guess you'd want 100-150 MB per NCD user to reduce paging. I'd say
50-100 MB per user was OK with CDE and Netscape 4. Our 512 MB E250
system with a 100-BaseT connection to our LAN hub supports 5 users OK;
don't know if I'd want to add many more (we have no display, only NCD
Xterminals). Some of our people use a PC for web surfing, so they're not
running Netscape/Mozilla heavily on our Solaris server.
-- 
I don't jog. It makes the ice jump right out of my glass.   Mike Peterson
                                                            ONet Networking
E-mail: mikep@onet.on.ca                                    Tel: 416-978-5230
WWW:    http://onet.on.ca/~mikep/                           Fax: 416-978-6620

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Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
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Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:12:29 -0500
From: Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88%comcast.net>
Subject: Re: X terminal MOP connected to a uVAX: replacement?

Didier Morandi wrote:
>
> Hello happy tax payers,
>
> I have a request from a Customer who still uses Tektro XP338 terminals 
> to do X from MicroVAXen via MOP and thin Ethernet (yes.)
>
> What would be a good replacement solution for these old boxes which 
> blow out one after the other every two months or so?
>
> I'm thinking of suggesting to give up with MOP and do X from a PC via 
> Exceed or any other X Windows package.
>
> What does the honourable assembly think?
>
> Thanks,
> D.


I would not try it on a PC with Reflection-X.  There doesn't seem to be 
any way to map the PC keyboard to the DEC keyboard unless you want to 
study X-windows keycodes, keysyms, etc.  It seems to me to be something 
that should just work, right out of the box but it doesn't!

The VTxxx emulations do an excelent job of keyboard mapping; it's just
the X-windows stuff that's a problem.

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Date: 6 Dec 2003 07:26:27 GMT
From: Dave Weatherall <djw-nothere@nospam.nohow>
Subject: Re: X terminal MOP connected to a uVAX: replacement?

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:12:29 UTC, "Richard B. Gilbert" 
<rgilbert88%comcast.net> wrote:

> I would not try it on a PC with Reflection-X.  There doesn't seem to be 
> any way to map the PC keyboard to the DEC keyboard unless you want to 
> study X-windows keycodes, keysyms, etc.  It seems to me to be something 
> that should just work, right out of the box but it doesn't!  The VTxxx 
> emulations do an excelent job of keyboard mapping; it's just the 
> X-windows stuff that's a problem.

What about a PC with a VT layout keyboard? I've just attached one to 
one of mine. It seems to work fine in normal PC mode but I haven't had
a chance to try it using Reflection or similar yet. 

-- 
Cheers - Dave.

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Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2003 19:20:46 -0500
From: Richard B. Gilbert <rgilbert88%comcast.net>
Subject: Re: X terminal MOP connected to a uVAX: replacement?

Dave Weatherall wrote:
>
> What about a PC with a VT layout keyboard? I've just attached one to 
> one of mine. It seems to work fine in normal PC mode but I haven't had
> a chance to try it using Reflection or similar yet. 

The LK250 and LK450 keyboards are a little hard to find!

Were you using, say, an LK461 for this trick?  I've been a little 
reluctant to experiment; a mistake could get pretty expensive!  PC 
keyboards are cheap and readily available.  The DEC keyboards are 
expensive and generally not available at your nearest computer store.

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