From dagon@dagon.net Mon Jul 26 10:20:41 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!oz.net!usenet From: dagon@dagon.net (Mark Rafn) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: 22 Jul 1999 23:03:43 GMT Organization: Trompler Foundation for Impractical Knowledge Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.39.155.156 X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) washoutt wrote: >Can anybody tell me what to send to a remote computer to tell it that I'm >either a dumb terminal or a VT100/VT200??? Umm. Send ascii over a serial port that's expecting a terminal, and the it'll think you're a terminal. If it asks what type of terminal you're on, type "vt100". Somehow I don't think this is your question. But I don't know what that question is, so it's all I can do. Explain your situation, what hardware you're using on both ends, what connection method you're using, and what you're trying to accomplish. Also mention what you've tried and how it deviates from what you want it to do. With that information, you're almost guaranteed to get good answers from this group. -- Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net !G From jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Mon Jul 26 10:20:49 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: 23 Jul 1999 00:02:28 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Message-ID: <7n8bek$fqt$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 932688148 16221 128.59.39.2 (23 Jul 1999 00:02:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 1999 00:02:28 GMT In article <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za>, washoutt wrote: : Can anybody tell me what to send to a remote computer to tell it that I'm : either a dumb terminal or a VT100/VT200??? : : Thanks in advance, : : : There is nothing that you can initiate to indicate to the host what terminal type you are unless you are working over some other protocol such as Telnet. If the host is looking for a particular type of terminal it can send a terminal type specific query. If you recognize the query you can respond to it with the appropriate answer for the terminal type. What exactly are you attempting to do? Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Mon Jul 26 10:21:36 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: 23 Jul 1999 21:11:53 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <7nalqp$5vm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <37984608.75E217B4@trailing-edge.com> <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 932764313 6134 128.59.39.2 (23 Jul 1999 21:11:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 1999 21:11:53 GMT Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201314 comp.terminals:12977 In article <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com>, Peter Smith wrote: : I used to write terminal drivers for a living -- "vt100" was always a : special case. Very few people actually *have* vt100s, but lots and : lots of terminals claim to be one. : : After battling customers for a year, I gave in and had my "vt100" : driver produce output that didn't actually work on a real vt100 : : (A real vt100 wont disply 24 lines of output in 132 character wide mode. : This was a very popular display option, though, because it fit more : data onto the screen.) : This is a configuration option for the VT100. A real VT100 can be queried and will respond with a report saying whether it has the Advanced Video Option, in which case it can display 24x132. Otherwise it can display only 14 lines when in 132-column mode. Therefore the host application can determine the "page size" of the terminal. An emulator should do what a real VT100 does. - Frank From rsclient@aol.com Mon Jul 26 10:21:47 1999 From: "Peter Smith" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <37984608.75E217B4@trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:40:28 -0700 Lines: 32 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Message-ID: <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> X-Trace: 23 Jul 1999 11:37:17 -0700, ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Organization: Northwest Link Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!news.nwlink.com!ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201306 comp.terminals:12976 I used to write terminal drivers for a living -- "vt100" was always a special case. Very few people actually *have* vt100s, but lots and lots of terminals claim to be one. After battling customers for a year, I gave in and had my "vt100" driver produce output that didn't actually work on a real vt100 (A real vt100 wont disply 24 lines of output in 132 character wide mode. This was a very popular display option, though, because it fit more data onto the screen.) Peter Smith Tim Shoppa wrote in message <37984608.75E217B4@trailing-edge.com>... > >Most "generic" telnet programs have *abysmally* horrible terminal >emulation. I really think that the folks who wrote them never even >tested an actual terminal, nor did they see any DEC specification >of a VT terminal, and most of them (particularly the distributed-with >Microsoft Windows telnet) seem to be based on incomplete >and inaccurate tables of escape codes pulled off the net or some >BBS. > >For a decent comparison of Wintel-based terminal emulators, you >can check the VTTEST scores at > > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/k95compare.html > From hshubs@mindspring.com Mon Jul 26 10:22:04 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!hshubs From: hshubs@mindspring.com (Howard S Shubs) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 23:13:18 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Message-ID: References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <37984608.75E217B4@trailing-edge.com> <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.34.09 X-Server-Date: 24 Jul 1999 04:11:15 GMT Mail-Copies-To: never X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: "S"r{U%bs].&Ud}Pc~~~0a]M:t5l>>EN\1Faw10M9NK1Xq59wo7-"s0S+[{etQorO /Nf-Ci"i9v'MT!R8)J]N[4|2&x1r^Iq&{SB"6dknr0=+6UFb.>+{zMn_1=rw&/V+"d@* ZS5\LoW_ Lines: 12 Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201341 comp.terminals:12978 In article <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com>, "Peter Smith" wrote: >(A real vt100 wont disply 24 lines of output in 132 character wide mode. >This was a very popular display option, though, because it fit more >data onto the screen.) It will if it's been given an additional kit called, IIRC, XVO, which added memory and basically turned the device into a VT102. -- Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com The Denim Adept Is this the right room for an argument? SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] From washoutt@mailbox.co.za Mon Jul 26 10:23:04 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!infeed.is.co.za!feeder.is.co.za!hermes.is.co.za!not-for-mail From: "washoutt" Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:14:29 +0200 Organization: An Internet Solution Customer Lines: 31 Message-ID: <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156> NNTP-Posting-Host: gauntlet.absa.co.za X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 I'm using a Telnet connection, from a PC to a Tandem machine, the PC being the client and the Tandem the server. What happens is, the Tandem sends me some garbage characters (probably requests my type of terminal), and since I am writing the application, I want to know what to send back to the Tandem machine to say my application emulates a VT100 or something. The Tandem server side is already written, I'm using the existing version, which I have no source code for. Currently, the Tandem sits there waiting for one full minute before assuming my application is a terminal (don't know which). Mark Rafn wrote in message <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156>... >washoutt wrote: >>Can anybody tell me what to send to a remote computer to tell it that I'm >>either a dumb terminal or a VT100/VT200??? > >Umm. Send ascii over a serial port that's expecting a terminal, and the >it'll think you're a terminal. If it asks what type of terminal you're >on, type "vt100". > >Somehow I don't think this is your question. But I don't know what that >question is, so it's all I can do. > >Explain your situation, what hardware you're using on both ends, what >connection method you're using, and what you're trying to accomplish. Also >mention what you've tried and how it deviates from what you want it to do. > >With that information, you're almost guaranteed to get good answers from >this group. >-- >Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net !G From fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Mon Jul 26 10:23:29 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: 26 Jul 1999 13:11:26 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7nhmpu$i31$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156> <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 932994686 18529 128.59.39.2 (26 Jul 1999 13:11:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jul 1999 13:11:26 GMT In article <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za>, washoutt wrote: : I'm using a Telnet connection, from a PC to a Tandem machine, the PC being : the client and the Tandem the server. What happens is, the Tandem sends me : some garbage characters (probably requests my type of terminal), and since I : am writing the application, I want to know what to send back to the Tandem : machine to say my application emulates a VT100 or something. The Tandem : server side is already written, I'm using the existing version, which I have : no source code for. Currently, the Tandem sits there waiting for one full : minute before assuming my application is a terminal (don't know which). : What are the garbage characters? ESC Z? ESC [ 0 c? - Frank From arice@ue.itug.org Wed Jul 28 23:32:32 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.93.67.47!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!cyclone-southeast.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-southeast.rr.com!cyclone2.tampabay.rr.com!newse3.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: arice@ue.itug.org (Art Rice) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Message-ID: <379ea3b8.444427112@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156> <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 51 Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 18:09:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.94.112.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: newse3.tampabay.rr.com 933012596 24.94.112.2 (Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:09:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 14:09:56 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:14:29 +0200, "washoutt" wrote: >I'm using a Telnet connection, from a PC to a Tandem machine, the PC being >the client and the Tandem the server. What happens is, the Tandem sends me >some garbage characters (probably requests my type of terminal), and since I >am writing the application, I want to know what to send back to the Tandem >machine to say my application emulates a VT100 or something. The Tandem >server side is already written, I'm using the existing version, which I have >no source code for. Currently, the Tandem sits there waiting for one full >minute before assuming my application is a terminal (don't know which). > >Mark Rafn wrote in message <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156>... >>washoutt wrote: >>>Can anybody tell me what to send to a remote computer to tell it that I'm >>>either a dumb terminal or a VT100/VT200??? >> >>Umm. Send ascii over a serial port that's expecting a terminal, and the >>it'll think you're a terminal. If it asks what type of terminal you're >>on, type "vt100". >> >>Somehow I don't think this is your question. But I don't know what that >>question is, so it's all I can do. >> >>Explain your situation, what hardware you're using on both ends, what >>connection method you're using, and what you're trying to accomplish. Also >>mention what you've tried and how it deviates from what you want it to do. >> >>With that information, you're almost guaranteed to get good answers from >>this group. >>-- >>Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net !G > Sorry to re-post but....Are you writing this where you work? Is you employer and Alliance Partner with Tandem? If so, you should be able to get tons of help from Tandem. If you are a Customer, it may help if you call the Global Customer, Support Center to request help. If you are a hobbyest, I guess we'll all do what we can to help. Tandem does not use VT100 except on their UNIX boxes. You really need to emulate a 6530 multipage terminal to get full functionality out of the Host. -- Art Rice Special Data Processing Corporation -------------------------------------- All opinions expressed are mine and do not reflect the views of my employer. From rsclient@aol.com Wed Jul 28 23:32:45 1999 From: "Peter Smith" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <37984608.75E217B4@trailing-edge.com> <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:46:38 -0700 Lines: 32 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Message-ID: <379cba83@news.nwlink.com> X-Trace: 26 Jul 1999 12:44:03 -0700, ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Organization: Northwest Link Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!news.nwlink.com!ip171.gte3.rb1.bel.nwlink.com Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201479 comp.terminals:12995 Well, yes -- the "Advanced Video Option". A lot of people simply assumed that it must do something a lot sexier and fancier than just allow a 132x24 screen -- I would sometimes get asked why a VT100 with Advanced Graphics couldn't display a high-res graphic! Seriously, though -- it often *isn't* possible to tell what kind of terminal the user 'really' has, and they often don't know. Many emulators just Dont Return What They Should. Peter Howard S Shubs wrote in message ... >In article <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com>, "Peter Smith" wrote: > >>(A real vt100 wont disply 24 lines of output in 132 character wide mode. >>This was a very popular display option, though, because it fit more >>data onto the screen.) > >It will if it's been given an additional kit called, IIRC, XVO, which >added memory and basically turned the device into a VT102. >-- >Howard S Shubs hshubs@mindspring.com hshubs@bix.com >The Denim Adept Is this the right room for an argument? >SPAM: uce@ftc.gov postmaster@[127.0.0.1] abuse@[127.0.0.1] From leichter@smarts.com Wed Jul 28 23:33:21 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!news.cs.columbia.edu!versed.smarts.com!usenet From: Jerry Leichter Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 16:54:17 -0400 Organization: System Management ARTS Lines: 48 Message-ID: <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com> References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <37984608.75E217B4@trailing-edge.com> <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> <7nalqp$5vm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: fine.smarts.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) To: Frank da Cruz Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201594 comp.terminals:13003 | : I used to write terminal drivers for a living -- "vt100" was always | : a special case.... After battling customers for a year, I gave in | : and had my "vt100" driver produce output that didn't actually work | : on a real vt100 | : | : (A real vt100 wont disply 24 lines of output in 132 character wide | : mode....) | This is a configuration option for the VT100. A real VT100 can be | queried and will respond with a report saying whether it has the | Advanced Video Option, in which case it can display 24x132. Otherwise | it can display only 14 lines when in 132-column mode.... Just to confuse things a bit: There's "VT100" the product designation, "VT100" the product *family*, and "VT100" the interface specification. The VT100 *product designation* properly only applies to the first- generation VT100 hardware, which indeed could only display 14 lines in 132-column mode without the AVO option. The same option also added the full set of four display characteristics: Underlined, reverse, bold, blink. Without AVO, you got one "alternate characteristic", which could be either reverse video or underlined, depending on whether you selected a block cursor or an underline cursor. (The AVO essentially consisted of nothing but some memory chips, adding extra cells to the display memory - and extra bits to each memory cell of the display memory.) The second generation of the VT100 family was cost-reduced, and had no options: The VT101 was essentially a VT100 without AVO, and the VT102 was essentially a VT100 *with* AVO. A VT101 couldn't be upgraded to a VT102. (VT101's were quite rare.) As I recall, the VT10x added some very minor stuff to the original VT100, but what it was, I couldn't now tell you. Within DEC, "VT100" *as an interface specification* was explicitly defined to refer to the documented interface of the *VT102*. So, to DEC, within a fairly short time after the VT102 shipped, "VT100 compatible" implicitly included the old AVO. (Actually, to be more exact: There was an internal DEC standard that defined the VT100 interface. It consisted of text essentially like that which appeared in the VT102 documentation shipped to customers. In addition, it contained embedded fragments of Pascal code which formally specified what the terminal should do on receipt of any character. It was possible to extract the fragments and knit them together automatic- ally. The result could be - and was - compiled to produce a workable, if inefficient, VT100 terminal emulator. By definition, this was a "perfect" VT100 terminal emulator.) -- Jerry From fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Wed Jul 28 23:33:32 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: 27 Jul 1999 21:44:11 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 31 Message-ID: <7nl97b$neg$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> <7nalqp$5vm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 933111851 24016 128.59.39.2 (27 Jul 1999 21:44:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 1999 21:44:11 GMT Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201596 comp.terminals:13005 alt.sys.pdp10:6178 In article <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com>, Jerry Leichter wrote: : ... : The second generation of the VT100 family was cost-reduced, and had no : options: The VT101 was essentially a VT100 without AVO, and the VT102 : was essentially a VT100 *with* AVO. A VT101 couldn't be upgraded to a : VT102. (VT101's were quite rare.) As I recall, the VT10x added some : very minor stuff to the original VT100, but what it was, I couldn't now : tell you. : I can. The VT101, which we bought truckloads of here at Columbia U as soon as it came out, added local echo. This let it access our IBM mainframe through the 3705 (half duplex) front end. Prior to the VT101, our VT100s could only access our PDP-11s and DEC-20s. The VT100 and 101, however, were both quite painful to use with EMACS on the low-speed dialup connections of the day (300bps, maybe 1200). The VT102 added the crucial feature: character insert/delete. It's hard to imagine in this day & age of gigabit Ethernets etc what a HUGE difference that made. On a related nostalgic note: The VT100's smooth scrolling feature was quite amazing to everyone when they first saw it, so much so that the VT100 became quite the status symbol. As soon as we hooked a few of them up to the campus "network" (a big serial port switch) and thence to the DEC-20, the DEC-20 would crash every couple minutes. Why? When the VT100 was in smooth scrolling mode, it would send Xoffs and Xons at such a hellish rate, it crashed the DEC-20 front end, which was designed based on the statistics of people typing (i.e. 10cps per port). - Frank From peter@taronga.com Wed Jul 28 23:33:41 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!uwm.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.ems.psu.edu!bonkers!not-for-mail From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets Date: 27 Jul 1999 19:50:56 -0500 Organization: none Lines: 24 Message-ID: <7nlk5g$kvl@bonkers.taronga.com> References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <7nalqp$5vm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com> <7nl97b$neg$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bonkers.in.taronga.com Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201612 comp.terminals:13006 alt.sys.pdp10:6180 In article <7nl97b$neg$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >On a related nostalgic note: The VT100's smooth scrolling feature was >quite amazing to everyone when they first saw it, so much so that the >VT100 became quite the status symbol. As soon as we hooked a few of them >up to the campus "network" (a big serial port switch) and thence to the >DEC-20, the DEC-20 would crash every couple minutes. Why? When the >VT100 was in smooth scrolling mode, it would send Xoffs and Xons at such >a hellish rate, it crashed the DEC-20 front end, which was designed based >on the statistics of people typing (i.e. 10cps per port). At Berkeley the TERMCAP entry for the vt100 with smooth scroll had simply incredible delays for anything that did scrolling, so it avoided most of the really bad handshaking behaviour. I found that smooth scroll made it harder for me to eyegrep documents at 300 and 1200 baud... my point of view would "stick" to the scrolling text instead of scanning back and forth over the last line looking for keywords. -- This is The Reverend Peter da Silva's Boring Sig File - there are no references to Wolves, Kibo, Discordianism, or The Church of the Subgenius in this document Executive Vice President, Corporate Communications, Entropy Gradient Reversals. From washoutt@mailbox.co.za Wed Jul 28 23:33:53 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!infeed.is.co.za!feeder.is.co.za!hermes.is.co.za!not-for-mail From: "washoutt" Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:19:21 +0200 Organization: An Internet Solution Customer Lines: 86 Message-ID: <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156> <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za> <379da022.443509773@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: gauntlet.absa.co.za X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Okay, well, I'm writing this in my work environment, though not officially. What I'm trying to do is to write an operator-terminal thingy in Visual-Basic. Everything works fine, except for the intial 60-second delay when signing on. I just want to get rid of that. I'm using a winsock connection to the Tandem, which runs SAFE as soon as you logon (our SAFEGUARD process). It looks like this if you display it : ^?û^A^?ý^X^?û^C^?ý^_. which is in ascii: #255 #251 #1 #255 #253 #24 #255 #251 #3 #255 #253 #31 Know what it's asking? I get the same stuff every time. Art Rice wrote in message <379da022.443509773@news-server.tampabay.rr.com>... >On Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:14:29 +0200, "washoutt" > wrote: > >>I'm using a Telnet connection, from a PC to a Tandem machine, the PC being >>the client and the Tandem the server. What happens is, the Tandem sends me >>some garbage characters (probably requests my type of terminal), and since I >>am writing the application, I want to know what to send back to the Tandem >>machine to say my application emulates a VT100 or something. The Tandem >>server side is already written, I'm using the existing version, which I have >>no source code for. Currently, the Tandem sits there waiting for one full >>minute before assuming my application is a terminal (don't know which). >> >>Mark Rafn wrote in message <7n880f$kk4$0@216.39.155.156>... >>>washoutt wrote: >>>>Can anybody tell me what to send to a remote computer to tell it that I'm >>>>either a dumb terminal or a VT100/VT200??? >>> >>>Umm. Send ascii over a serial port that's expecting a terminal, and the >>>it'll think you're a terminal. If it asks what type of terminal you're >>>on, type "vt100". >>> >>>Somehow I don't think this is your question. But I don't know what that >>>question is, so it's all I can do. >>> >>>Explain your situation, what hardware you're using on both ends, what >>>connection method you're using, and what you're trying to accomplish. Also >>>mention what you've tried and how it deviates from what you want it to do. >>> >>>With that information, you're almost guaranteed to get good answers from >>>this group. >>>-- >>>Mark Rafn dagon@dagon.net !G >> > >There are some hidden characters beyond those that TACL (Tandem >Advanced Command Language) uses to check the terminal type. > >Most TAL applications (read most Tandem Utilities, RCP, Shealth, >etc..) will issue an ESC^ to check terminal status and ESC_ to get the >terminal revision level. The responses are >? SOH ? status term_id maj-rev-level CR (status is a bit map) >? SOH # rev-level T0 device-rev-level CR respectivly. > >If either of these are issued to VT or Wyse terminals through a TACL >Requester, the Terminal can hang until a break character is issued by >the keyboard. > >I have logged the exchange of data using 6530, Wyse 50 VT100, VT220, >VT320, and TTY and they all seem to have different "garbage" >characters sent to them prior to their responding with an Answer >String. The Answer String is used by Pathway. You will notice that >all Pathway applications, including View Point refuse to run on >anything other than 65xx terminals (some exceptions for TN3270) >Tedit, PSMAIL and EDIT VS also will not run on Non 65xx terminals. >Viewsys, on the other hand, does absolutely no terminal checking and >does not read the TACL environment so send garbage to a non 65xx >terminal. >-- >Art Rice >Special Data Processing Corporation >-------------------------------------- >All opinions expressed are mine and do >not reflect the views of my employer. From fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Wed Jul 28 23:34:10 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: 28 Jul 1999 13:12:43 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7nmvkb$oum$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za> <379da022.443509773@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 933167563 25558 128.59.39.2 (28 Jul 1999 13:12:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 1999 13:12:43 GMT In article <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za>, washoutt wrote: : Okay, well, I'm writing this in my work environment, though not officially. : What I'm trying to do is to write an operator-terminal thingy in : Visual-Basic. Everything works fine, except for the intial 60-second delay : when signing on. I just want to get rid of that. I'm using a winsock : connection to the Tandem, which runs SAFE as soon as you logon (our : SAFEGUARD process). It looks like this if you display it : ^?û^A^?ý^X^?û^C^?ý^_. : : which is in ascii: : : #255 #251 #1 #255 #253 #24 #255 #251 #3 #255 #253 #31 : : Know what it's asking? I get the same stuff every time. : They are Telnet negotiations. Your Telnet client is supposed to reply to them. - Frank From piccard@ohio.edu Wed Jul 28 23:34:21 1999 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.terminals Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!wn3feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!207.24.196.41!nntphub.cb.lucent.com!oucsboss!news From: "Richard D. Piccard" Subject: Re: SMG vs. windows telnets X-Nntp-Posting-Host: dhcp-063-099.cns.ohiou.edu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Message-ID: <379F02E8.A9BB976A@ohio.edu> Sender: news@boss.cs.ohiou.edu (News Admin) X-Nntp-Posting-Date: Wed Jul 28 09:17:35 1999 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Ohio University C.S. Dept, Athens X-Accept-Language: en References: <7n9rhi$26g$1@husk.cso.niu.edu> <37984608.75E217B4@trailing-edge.com> <3798b65d@news.nwlink.com> <7nalqp$5vm$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <379E1C79.57D8@smarts.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:17:29 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Lines: 64 Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.os.vms:201651 comp.terminals:13012 One feature that I have not seen mentioned as part of the AVO, which I do recall as a VT-102 feature not present with real VT-100s, is the printer port, and the escape-sequence support for printing through it. RDP Jerry Leichter wrote: > | : I used to write terminal drivers for a living -- "vt100" was always > | : a special case.... After battling customers for a year, I gave in > | : and had my "vt100" driver produce output that didn't actually work > | : on a real vt100 > | : > | : (A real vt100 wont disply 24 lines of output in 132 character wide > | : mode....) > | This is a configuration option for the VT100. A real VT100 can be > | queried and will respond with a report saying whether it has the > | Advanced Video Option, in which case it can display 24x132. Otherwise > | it can display only 14 lines when in 132-column mode.... > > Just to confuse things a bit: There's "VT100" the product designation, > "VT100" the product *family*, and "VT100" the interface specification. > > The VT100 *product designation* properly only applies to the first- > generation VT100 hardware, which indeed could only display 14 lines in > 132-column mode without the AVO option. The same option also added the > full set of four display characteristics: Underlined, reverse, bold, > blink. Without AVO, you got one "alternate characteristic", which could > be either reverse video or underlined, depending on whether you selected > a block cursor or an underline cursor. (The AVO essentially consisted > of nothing but some memory chips, adding extra cells to the display > memory - and extra bits to each memory cell of the display memory.) > > The second generation of the VT100 family was cost-reduced, and had no > options: The VT101 was essentially a VT100 without AVO, and the VT102 > was essentially a VT100 *with* AVO. A VT101 couldn't be upgraded to a > VT102. (VT101's were quite rare.) As I recall, the VT10x added some > very minor stuff to the original VT100, but what it was, I couldn't now > tell you. > > Within DEC, "VT100" *as an interface specification* was explicitly > defined to refer to the documented interface of the *VT102*. So, to > DEC, within a fairly short time after the VT102 shipped, "VT100 > compatible" implicitly included the old AVO. > > (Actually, to be more exact: There was an internal DEC standard that > defined the VT100 interface. It consisted of text essentially like that > which appeared in the VT102 documentation shipped to customers. In > addition, it contained embedded fragments of Pascal code which formally > specified what the terminal should do on receipt of any character. It > was possible to extract the fragments and knit them together automatic- > ally. The result could be - and was - compiled to produce a workable, > if inefficient, VT100 terminal emulator. By definition, this was a > "perfect" VT100 terminal emulator.) > > -- Jerry -- ================================================================== Dick Piccard Academic Technology Manager piccard@ohio.edu Computer Services http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~piccard/ Ohio University From arice@ue.itug.org Wed Jul 28 23:34:38 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.93.67.47!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!cyclone-southeast.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-southeast.rr.com!cyclone2.tampabay.rr.com!newse2.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: arice@ue.itug.org (Art Rice) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Message-ID: <37a2126f.603842609@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za> <379da022.443509773@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7nmvkb$oum$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 52 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 14:33:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.94.112.2 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tampabay.rr.com X-Trace: newse2.tampabay.rr.com 933172430 24.94.112.2 (Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:33:50 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 10:33:50 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - TampaBay On 28 Jul 1999 13:12:43 GMT, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: >In article <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za>, >washoutt wrote: >: Okay, well, I'm writing this in my work environment, though not officially. >: What I'm trying to do is to write an operator-terminal thingy in >: Visual-Basic. Everything works fine, except for the intial 60-second delay >: when signing on. I just want to get rid of that. I'm using a winsock >: connection to the Tandem, which runs SAFE as soon as you logon (our >: SAFEGUARD process). It looks like this if you display it : ^?û ^?ý^X^?û ^?ý^_. >: >: which is in ascii: >: >: #255 #251 #1 #255 #253 #24 #255 #251 #3 #255 #253 #31 >: >: Know what it's asking? I get the same stuff every time. >: >They are Telnet negotiations. Your Telnet client is supposed to reply to >them. > >- Frank You should get those characters as part of the telnet "handshake" after which you will get a screen similar to: WELCOME TO SYSNAME [PORT $ZTC0 #23 WINDOW $ZTN0.#PT8MWJD] TELSERV - T9553D40 - (20FEB98) - (IPMACT) Available Services: OSS TACL EXIT Enter Choice> This is the part that should take some time. It really depends on the load currently on you LAN and the piority given to the TELSERV process you are connecting to. I have logged onto plenty of systems running SafeGuard and never saw any increased delay after typing TACL and then logging in. It also might be wise to include the news-group comp.sys.tandem in the newsgroups you are posting to. -- Art Rice Special Data Processing Corporation -------------------------------------- All opinions expressed are mine and do not reflect the views of my employer. From jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Wed Jul 28 23:35:35 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.icl.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: 28 Jul 1999 14:42:34 GMT Organization: Columbia University Message-ID: <7nn4sq$38$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7nh1vh$1i2$1@hermes.is.co.za> <379da022.443509773@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 933172954 104 128.59.39.2 (28 Jul 1999 14:42:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 1999 14:42:34 GMT Lines: 43 In article <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za>, washoutt wrote: : Okay, well, I'm writing this in my work environment, though not officially. : What I'm trying to do is to write an operator-terminal thingy in : Visual-Basic. Everything works fine, except for the intial 60-second delay : when signing on. I just want to get rid of that. I'm using a winsock : connection to the Tandem, which runs SAFE as soon as you logon (our : SAFEGUARD process). It looks like this if you display it : ^?û^A^?ý^X^?û^C^?ý^_. : : which is in ascii: : : #255 #251 #1 #255 #253 #24 #255 #251 #3 #255 #253 #31 : : Know what it's asking? I get the same stuff every time. Earlier in this thread I asked you who was handling the telnet protocol for your application. The answer appears to be nobody. If you are making a connection to a telnet port then you need to use Telnet Protocol when communicating with the host. A telnet server does not use a raw TCP/IP socket. Instead, it communicates using a Network Virtual Terminal (NVT). The NVT processes Telnet negotiations which determine how the connection is to be used. The above translates to IAC WILL ECHO (RFC 857) IAC DO TERMINAL_TYPE (RFC 1091) IAC WILL SUPPRESS_GO_AHEADS (RFC 858) IAC DO NEGOTIATE_ABOUT_WINDOW_SIZE (RFC 1073) Telnet protocol requires a sophisticated state machine to handle the processing of these negotiations. Each WILL or DO request requires an appropriate response and then subnegotiations need to be handled. Unless you have some very significant reason why you must write this application yourself I strongly suggest you go out and find a scriptable telnet client and write your application in the telnet clients's scripting language. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Wed Jul 28 23:35:44 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.mathworks.com!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: 28 Jul 1999 15:33:07 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7nn7rj$2le$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za> <7nmvkb$oum$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <37a2126f.603842609@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 933175987 2734 128.59.39.2 (28 Jul 1999 15:33:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jul 1999 15:33:07 GMT In article <37a2126f.603842609@news-server.tampabay.rr.com>, Art Rice wrote: : : This is the part that should take some time. It really depends on the : load currently on you LAN and the piority given to the TELSERV : process you are connecting to. : I have logged onto plenty of systems running SafeGuard and never : saw any increased delay after typing TACL and then logging in. The delay is most likely caused by the failure to respond to the telnet negotiation requests. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org From jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu Thu Jul 29 12:54:46 1999 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!jaltman From: jaltman@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Jeffrey Altman) Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: How do I say I'm a terminal? Date: 29 Jul 1999 16:44:58 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 80 Message-ID: <7nq0ea$ecl$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <7n6ppb$b0b$1@hermes.is.co.za> <37a2126f.603842609@news-server.tampabay.rr.com> <7nn7rj$2le$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <7npt3o$7rq$1@hermes.is.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 933266698 14741 128.59.39.2 (29 Jul 1999 16:44:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 1999 16:44:58 GMT In article <7npt3o$7rq$1@hermes.is.co.za>, washoutt wrote: : Yeah, I know. What I need to know is, what do I respond to these? How do I : say what I am? Again: In article <7nmegi$cd9$1@hermes.is.co.za>, washoutt wrote: : Okay, well, I'm writing this in my work environment, though not officially. : What I'm trying to do is to write an operator-terminal thingy in : Visual-Basic. Everything works fine, except for the intial 60-second delay : when signing on. I just want to get rid of that. I'm using a winsock : connection to the Tandem, which runs SAFE as soon as you logon (our : SAFEGUARD process). It looks like this if you display it : 9^A 2^X 9^C 2^_. : : which is in ascii: : : #255 #251 #1 #255 #253 #24 #255 #251 #3 #255 #253 #31 : : Know what it's asking? I get the same stuff every time. Earlier in this thread I asked you who was handling the telnet protocol for your application. The answer appears to be nobody. If you are making a connection to a telnet port then you need to use Telnet Protocol when communicating with the host. A telnet server does not use a raw TCP/IP socket. Instead, it communicates using a Network Virtual Terminal (NVT). The NVT processes Telnet negotiations which determine how the connection is to be used. The above translates to IAC WILL ECHO (RFC 857) IAC DO TERMINAL_TYPE (RFC 1091) IAC WILL SUPPRESS_GO_AHEADS (RFC 858) IAC DO NEGOTIATE_ABOUT_WINDOW_SIZE (RFC 1073) Telnet protocol requires a sophisticated state machine to handle the processing of these negotiations. Each WILL or DO request requires an appropriate response and then subnegotiations need to be handled. Unless you have some very significant reason why you must write this application yourself I strongly suggest you go out and find a scriptable telnet client and write your application in the telnet clients's scripting language. Additional comment: A typical telnet client would respond to the above with: IAC DO ECHO IAC WILL TERMINAL_TYPE IAC DO SUPPRESS_GO_AHEADS IAC WILL NEGOTIATE_ABOUT_WINDOW_SIZE IAC SB NEGOTIATE_ABOUT_WINDOW_SIZE IAC SE the host would then ask IAC SB TERMINAL_TYPE SEND IAC SE to which the client would respond with IAC SB TERMINAL_TYPE IS IAC SE to which the host might respond IAC SB TERMINAL_TYPE SEND IAC SE if it wants more choices. (See the RFC for details.) The host may also send more than 30 other options at this point that you would need to respond to. The Telnet Protocol (like Kermit protocol) is a state machine that implements a negotiation. There is no specific set of octets that you can send that will actually perform the negotiation since the process of negotiating requires understanding the question that you are providing an answer to. Jeffrey Altman * Sr.Software Designer * Kermit-95 for Win32 and OS/2 The Kermit Project * Columbia University 612 West 115th St #716 * New York, NY * 10025 http://www.kermit-project.org/k95.html * kermit-support@kermit-project.org