From djfiler@yahoo.com Fri May 17 14:34:15 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals Message-ID: <14849043.0205160806.683e6ca4@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Date: 16 May 2002 09:06:09 -0700 From: Darrin Filer Subject: WYSE150 v. ASCII line graphics I can't seem to get any line graphics to display on a WYSE150es. (The upper 128 through 255 ascii characters) We're running it in vt100 mode off of Red Hat Linux 6.2. Using the Anita terminal emulation program in Windows, I've gotten the line graphics to display by setting the character set to "IBM PC (OEM)". However, we still have terminals in use so I need to get them to display the characters properly as well. Since the characters are displayed properly in the emulator, I'm assuming that they are being transmitted properly and all I need to do is find the appropriate setting for the WYSE150 in vt100 mode. This probably has something to do with character set selection, but all the limited doumentation I've found on the web has got me no where... From news@celigne.co.uk Fri May 17 14:34:26 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: <14849043.0205160806.683e6ca4@posting.google.com> Message-ID: Organization: http://vt100.net Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 16:56:15 -0000 From: Paul Williams Subject: Re: WYSE150 v. ASCII line graphics djfiler@yahoo.com (Darrin Filer) wrote in news:14849043.0205160806.683e6ca4@posting.google.com: > I can't seem to get any line graphics to display on a WYSE150es. (The > upper 128 through 255 ascii characters) We're running it in vt100 mode > off of Red Hat Linux 6.2. This could depend on the fidelity of the Wyse terminal's VT100 emulation. A real VT100 only accepts 7-bit characters (ie. it'll just ignore the top bit). - Paul From djfiler@yahoo.com Fri May 17 14:34:41 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals Message-ID: <14849043.0205160928.61bb17a6@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Date: 16 May 2002 10:28:01 -0700 From: Darrin Filer Subject: tuxedo.org's terminfo - no destructive backspace for WYSE50 or WYSE150 ? We've got a WYSE 150es which needs to display ascii line graphics. Instead of bashing my head against the vt100 workarouds for this, we've decided to run the terminal in its native personality, wyse 150 or 150+. Unfortunately, the backspace key isn't functioning properly, behaving simply as a left arrow. control-b does the same thing as control-h or the left arrow key. In fact, I haven't found a control sequence for a WYSE 150 that actually does do a destructive backspace. I'm becoming more familiar with the terminfo file but even the one found at tuxedo.org doesn't have a functional backspace. With the terminal set to emulate WYSE 150 or 150+ (actually the native personality) and TERM=wy150 --- screen attributes like reverse video don't work With the terminal set to emulate WYSE 50 or 50+ and TERM=wy50 or wy150 -- line graphics come out as other characters With the terminal set to emulate WYSE 150 or 150+ and TERM=wy50 -- screen attributes are ok! All three of these scenarios fail to produce a destructive backspace. However, running as a WYSE150+ with TERM=wy50 at least gets me the line art and correct text display attributes. The other choice is to run as a vt100 with TERM=vt100 and use no line graphics but with a destructive backspace. Does anyone out there have a destructive backspace on their WYSE150 with TERM=wy50 or wy150 or ????? darrin Filer From shuford@list.stratagy.REM0VE-THlS-PART.com Fri May 17 14:34:46 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: <14849043.0205160928.61bb17a6@posting.google.com> Message-ID: Organization: Stratagy Users Group Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 18:18:18 -0400 From: Richard Shuford Subject: Re: no destructive backspace for WYSE50 or WYSE150? (terminfo) Darrin Filer djfiler(at)@yahoo.com wrote: | | We've got a WYSE 150es which needs to display ascii line graphics. | ... | In fact, I haven't found a control sequence for a WYSE 150 that | actually does do a destructive backspace. I'm becoming more familiar | with the terminfo file but even the one found at tuxedo.org doesn't | have a functional backspace. Unfortunately you don't say to what kind of system this Wyse 150-es is attached, or what type of software application is communicating with the terminal. Putting on my Sherlock Holmes Detective Hat, I deduce from your reference to a "terminfo" file that the host system has terminal control of the type associated with System V Unix derivatives. It would be a mild extrapolation to deduce that you have not read the documentation for the "stty" command, as by typing "man stty". Depending on the Unix flavor, other man pages of significance might be ldterm, termio, and termios (as in the case of Solaris; for other Unix implementations or for Linux, your mileage may vary). Now, admittedly, man-page documentation is often useful only if you already have an idea of what to look for. If you'd like a kinder, gentler introduction to the subject, I suggest you look here first: http://www.aplawrence.com/Unixart/terminals.html and then follow up with resources listed at: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~shuford/terminal_index.html Although not must use with most System V Unix products, the following is useful for those with BSD-derived Unix systems: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/term.html ...Richard Shuford shuford(at)list.stratagy.com From rd11824@mayday.cix.co.uk Fri May 17 14:34:51 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals Message-ID: Organization: Mayday Technology Ltd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:18:36 +0100 From: Robert de Bath Subject: Re: WYSE150 v. ASCII line graphics On 16 May 2002, Darrin Filer wrote: > I can't seem to get any line graphics to display on a WYSE150es. (The > upper 128 through 255 ascii characters) We're running it in vt100 mode > off of Red Hat Linux 6.2. A real VT100 does NOT do codepage 437. On Thu, 16 May 2002, Paul Williams wrote: > This could depend on the fidelity of the Wyse terminal's VT100 emulation. A > real VT100 only accepts 7-bit characters (ie. it'll just ignore the top > bit). In VT100 mode the Wy120 (the previous model) strips off the top bit ie it ignores parity. In fact the wy120's emulation is so good that it even gets the finer differences between the vt100 and the vt220 correct eg: NRC mode. On 16 May 2002, Darrin Filer wrote: > Using the Anita terminal emulation program in Windows, I've gotten the > line graphics to display by setting the character set to "IBM PC > (OEM)". However, we still have terminals in use so I need to get them > to display the characters properly as well. Since the characters are > displayed properly in the emulator, I'm assuming that they are being > transmitted properly and all I need to do is find the appropriate > setting for the WYSE150 in vt100 mode. I don't think you will be able to do this in vt100 mode. If you're in vt220 mode (assuming the wy150 has it) you can set the high bit characters to ISO-8859-1 (or latin1) which is the character set that Windows cp1252 is based on. This way you'll have a for more standard high bit character set for £ and αινσϊ. You can still access the real line drawing characters (the box corners etc) by using the VT100 character set controls (if 'Anita' is any good at all) by making sure that the TERM variable in Linux is vt100, vt220 or something similar. If you get this right your next headache is function keys -- a real vt100 has _none_ ... though it does have four 'PF' keys. > This probably has something to do with character set selection, but > all the limited doumentation I've found on the web has got me no > where... If you can't access the characters you want in vt100 mode may have more luck in native mode, but make sure the host knows it's talking to a wy150 not a vtklone. (TERM= variable) The wyse website has some documentation on the terminals if you need to go past the basic terminfo. BTW: I use ISO-8859-1 on all of wy120, Linux console, xterm and Windows terminal emulators (PuTTY, CRT etc). The wyse works fine (including boxes) in vt220 mode with a stock vt220 terminfo but the f-keys are mis-labeled so I use this instead: vt220-120|Wyse120 in VT220 emulation mode, kf1=\EOP, kf2=\EOQ, kf3=\EOR, kf4=\EOS, kf5=\E[M, kf6=\E[17~, kf7=\E[18~, kf8=\E[19~, kf9=\E[20~, kf10=\E[21~, kf11=\E[23~, kf12=\E[24~, use=vt220, -- Rob. (Robert de Bath ) From rd11824@mayday.cix.co.uk Fri May 17 14:34:55 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: <14849043.0205160928.61bb17a6@posting.google.com> Message-ID: Organization: Mayday Technology Ltd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:37:53 +0100 From: Robert de Bath Subject: Re: no destructive backspace for WYSE50 or WYSE150? (terminfo) On Thu, 16 May 2002, Richard Shuford wrote: > Darrin Filer djfiler(at)@yahoo.com wrote: > Unfortunately you don't say to what kind of system this Wyse 150-es > is attached, or what type of software application is communicating > with the terminal. Tut, Tut Richard, please do pay attention, it's Red Hat Linux 6.2 as Darrin said in his other message. -- Rob. (Robert de Bath ) From rd11824@mayday.cix.co.uk Fri May 17 14:34:59 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: <14849043.0205160928.61bb17a6@posting.google.com> Message-ID: Organization: Mayday Technology Ltd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 07:31:58 +0100 From: Robert de Bath Subject: Re: tuxedo.org's terminfo - no destructive backspace for WYSE50 or WYSE150 ? On 16 May 2002, Darrin Filer wrote: > We've got a WYSE 150es which needs to display ascii line graphics. > Instead of bashing my head against the vt100 workarouds for this, > we've decided to run the terminal in its native personality, wyse 150 > or 150+. Unfortunately, the backspace key isn't functioning properly, > behaving simply as a left arrow. control-b does the same thing as > control-h or the left arrow key. > Does anyone out there have a destructive backspace on their WYSE150 > with TERM=wy50 or wy150 or ????? This is the main reason I don't like wyse native modes. The left arrow and backspace both default to ^H. The normal workaround is to map one or the other to some other sequence in the terminal then adjust the terminfo to match. As down arrow (which is mapped to ^J) is also frequently a problem I tended to remap the arrow keys. Once the arrow keys are out of the way stty erase ^H will make the backspace destructive. Just to complete the problem the function keys are also a little weird and occasionally give problems as their sequences include ^A (which may get eaten) and ^M (which may be translated to ^J)! -- Rob. (Robert de Bath ) From dickey@saltmine.radix.net Fri May 17 14:35:02 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: <14849043.0205160806.683e6ca4@posting.google.com> Message-ID: Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Date: 17 May 2002 12:19:18 GMT From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: WYSE150 v. ASCII line graphics Paul Williams wrote: > djfiler@yahoo.com (Darrin Filer) wrote in > news:14849043.0205160806.683e6ca4@posting.google.com: >> I can't seem to get any line graphics to display on a WYSE150es. (The >> upper 128 through 255 ascii characters) We're running it in vt100 mode >> off of Red Hat Linux 6.2. > This could depend on the fidelity of the Wyse terminal's VT100 emulation. A > real VT100 only accepts 7-bit characters (ie. it'll just ignore the top > bit). true (the reference to 128-255 sounds more like an emulator running on a PC) -- Thomas E. Dickey http://dickey.his.com ftp://dickey.his.com From dickey@saltmine.radix.net Fri May 17 14:35:05 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: Message-ID: Organization: RadixNet Internet Services Date: 17 May 2002 12:23:28 GMT From: Thomas Dickey Subject: Re: WYSE150 v. ASCII line graphics Robert de Bath wrote: > BTW: > I use ISO-8859-1 on all of wy120, Linux console, xterm and Windows > terminal emulators (PuTTY, CRT etc). The wyse works fine (including > boxes) in vt220 mode with a stock vt220 terminfo but the f-keys are > mis-labeled so I use this instead: > vt220-120|Wyse120 in VT220 emulation mode, > kf1=\EOP, kf2=\EOQ, kf3=\EOR, kf4=\EOS, kf5=\E[M, kf6=\E[17~, kf7=\E[18~, kf8=\E[19~, > kf9=\E[20~, kf10=\E[21~, kf11=\E[23~, kf12=\E[24~, > use=vt220, hmm - just looking at it, I don't see which is mislabeled. (Is your base 'vt220' numbering the keys off-by-one?) -- Thomas E. Dickey http://dickey.his.com ftp://dickey.his.com From djfiler@yahoo.com Fri May 17 14:35:09 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: <14849043.0205160928.61bb17a6@posting.google.com> Message-ID: <14849043.0205170714.56fb6258@posting.google.com> Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Date: 17 May 2002 08:14:40 -0700 From: Darrin Filer Subject: Re: tuxedo.org's terminfo - no destructive backspace for WYSE50 or WYSE150 ? Ok, getting closer. Thanks for the assistance. I've used the setup screen on the WYSE150 to remap the left arrow key to control-B. Pressing the left arrow key now produces ^B on the screen. This can be deleted as a single character by pressing the backspace key. Obviously the desired behavior is moving the cursor one character to the left. I assumed this behavior could be set in terminfo with the following syntax: kcub1=^B, or (what's the diffence between these anyway) cub1=^B, However, hitting a control-B or the left arrow, which produces this sequence, only puts ^B on the screen. The terminfo settings were verified after running tic by looking at the output of infocmp and they were in fact set. Next I tried typing: stty erase ^B to see what would happen. Yet control-B still only displays ^B. What am I missing? (I've pasted the output from infocmp below) Darrin Filer ========================================================================== # Reconstructed via infocmp from file: /u1/djf/.terminfo/w/wy120 wy120|wyse120|wy150|wyse150|Wyse 120/150, am, bw, hs, km, mc5i, mir, msgr, xon, cols#80, it#8, lh#1, lines#24, lw#8, nlab#8, pb#9601, wsl#45, acsc=+/\,.0[Iha2fxgqh1jYk?lZm@nEqDtCu4vAwBx3yszr{c~~, bel=^G, blink=\EG2, cbt=\EI, civis=\E`0, clear=\E+$<50>, cnorm=\E`1, cr=^M, cub1=^B, cud1=^J, cuf1=^L, cup=\E=%p1%' '%+%c%p2%' '%+%c, cuu1=^K, dch1=\EW$<7>, dim=\EGp, dl1=\ER$<3>, dsl=\EF\r, ed=\EY$<50>, el=\ET$<4>, flash=\E`8$<100/>\E`9, fsl=^M, home=^^, ht=\011$<1>, hts=\E1, il1=\EE$<3>, ind=\n$<3>, ip=$<2>, is1=\EcB0\EcC1, is2=\Ed$\EcD\E'\Er\EH\003\Ed/\EO\Ee1\Ed*\E`@\E`9\E`1\016\024\El, is3=\EwJ\Ew1$<150>, kHOM=\E{, kbs=^H, kcbt=\EI, kcub1=^B, kcud1=^J, kcuf1=^L, kcuu1=^K, kdch1=\EW, kdl1=\ER, ked=\EY, kel=\ET, kent=\E7, kf1=^A@\r, kf10=^AI\r, kf11=^AJ\r, kf12=^AK\r, kf13=^AL\r, kf14=^AM\r, kf15=^AN\r, kf16=^AO\r, kf2=^AA\r, kf3=^AB\r, kf4=^AC\r, kf5=^AD\r, kf6=^AE\r, kf7=^AF\r, kf8=^AG\r, kf9=^AH\r, khome=^^, kich1=\EQ, kil1=\EE, knp=\EK, kpp=\EJ, kprt=\EP, krpl=\Er, ll=^^^K, mc0=\EP, mc4=^T, mc5=\Ed#, nel=\r\n$<3>, pfloc=\EZ2%p1%'?'%+%c%p2%s\177, pfx=\EZ1%p1%'?'%+%c%p2%s\177, pln=\Ez%p1%'/'%+%c%p2%s\r, prot=\E), ri=\Ej$<2>, rmacs=\EcD, rmam=\Ed., rmcup=\Ew1, rmir=\Er, rmln=\EA11, rmxon=\Ec20, rs1=\E~!\E~4$<30>, rs2=\EeF\E`\:$<70>, rs3=\EwG\Ee($<100>, sgr=%?%p8%t\E)%e\E(%;%?%p9%t\EcE%e\EcD%;\EG%'0'%?%p2%t%{8}%|%;%?%p1%p3% sgr0=\E(\EH\003\EG0\EcD, smacs=\EcE, smam=\Ed/, smcup=\Ew0, smir=\Eq, smln=\EA10, smso=\EGt, smxon=\Ec21, =============================================================================== > This is the main reason I don't like wyse native modes. The left arrow and > backspace both default to ^H. The normal workaround is to map one or the > other to some other sequence in the terminal then adjust the terminfo to > match. As down arrow (which is mapped to ^J) is also frequently a problem > I tended to remap the arrow keys. Once the arrow keys are out of the way > > stty erase ^H > > will make the backspace destructive. Just to complete the problem the > function keys are also a little weird and occasionally give problems > as their sequences include ^A (which may get eaten) and ^M (which may > be translated to ^J)! From rd11824@mayday.cix.co.uk Fri May 17 17:41:57 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals References: Message-ID: Organization: Mayday Technology Ltd Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 21:33:55 +0100 From: Robert de Bath Subject: Re: WYSE150 v. ASCII line graphics On 17 May 2002, Thomas Dickey wrote: > Robert de Bath wrote: > > > BTW: > > I use ISO-8859-1 on all of wy120, Linux console, xterm and Windows > > terminal emulators (PuTTY, CRT etc). The wyse works fine (including > > boxes) in vt220 mode with a stock vt220 terminfo but the f-keys are > > mis-labeled so I use this instead: > > > vt220-120|Wyse120 in VT220 emulation mode, > > kf1=\EOP, kf2=\EOQ, kf3=\EOR, kf4=\EOS, > > kf5=\E[M, kf6=\E[17~, kf7=\E[18~, kf8=\E[19~, > > kf9=\E[20~, kf10=\E[21~, kf11=\E[23~, kf12=\E[24~, > > use=vt220, > > hmm - just looking at it, I don't see which is mislabeled. (Is your > base 'vt220' numbering the keys off-by-one?) These are the function keys in my vt220 terminfo. kf1=\EOP, kf2=\EOQ, kf3=\EOR, kf4=\EOS, kf5=\E[17~, kf6=\E[18~, kf7=\E[19~, kf8=\E[20~, kf9=\E[21~, kf10=\E[29~, Hmmm, looking at the master it looks like I've got the 'vt220-old' version, I still need to do the same with the new one though 'cause of F5. -- Rob. (Robert de Bath ) From rd11825@mayday.cix.co.uk Sat May 18 10:46:09 2002 Path: transfer.stratus.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!bstnma1-snf1.gtei.net!washdc3- snh1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newsfeed00.sul.t- online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.n et!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Newsgroups: comp.terminals Subject: Re: tuxedo.org's terminfo - no destructive backspace for WYSE50 or WYSE150 ? Organization: Mayday Technology Ltd X-URL: X-Dev86-Version: 0.16.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-ID: <26e512ffcd3eb2dd@mayday.cix.co.uk> From: Robert de Bath Lines: 58 Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:55:32 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.252.20.222 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1021709405 62.252.20.222 (Sat, 18 May 2002 09:10:05 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 09:10:05 BST Xref: transfer.stratus.com comp.terminals:16304 On Fri, 17 May 2002, Darrin Filer wrote: > Ok, getting closer. Thanks for the assistance. > > I've used the setup screen on the WYSE150 to remap the left arrow key to > control-B. Pressing the left arrow key now produces ^B on the screen. This can > be deleted as a single character by pressing the backspace key. Obviously the > desired behavior is moving the cursor one character to the left. > > I assumed this behavior could be set in terminfo with the following syntax: > kcub1=^B, > or (what's the diffence between these anyway) > cub1=^B, man 5 terminfo key_backspace kbs kb backspace key key_left kcub1 kl left-arrow key cursor_left cub1 le move left one space The ones that begin with 'k' are for the sequences sent by keys. The ones without are sent by the application to move the cursor round the screen, don't change these. Make sure your compiled terminfo is actually used by your application (eg: get rid of the standard one in /usr/share/terminfo/w while testing) Note, command line utilities (cat!) don't normally use terminfo however any that have been linked with the readline utility (eg: bash) will if /etc/inputrc or ~/.inputrc have been setup (man readline). If you're using readline (bash) you may want to setup the keys in 'emacs' mode 'cause readline doesn't always obey terminfo properly: In terminfo kcub1=^B, kcuf1=^F, kcuu1=^P, kcud1=^N, and in bash set -o emacs or in inputrc set editing-mode emacs > However, hitting a control-B or the left arrow, which produces this sequence, > only puts ^B on the screen. The terminfo settings were verified after running > tic by looking at the output of infocmp and they were in fact set. Next I tried > typing: stty erase ^B to see what would happen. Yet control-B still only > displays ^B. This is what you get it you are using bash in 'vi' mode, bash thinks it knows best, other programs know better. -- Rob. (Robert de Bath ) From rd11825@mayday.cix.co.uk Mon May 20 11:48:56 2002 Newsgroups: comp.terminals Message-ID: <26e512ffcd3eb2dd@mayday.cix.co.uk> Organization: Mayday Technology Ltd Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 08:55:32 +0100 From: Robert de Bath Subject: Re: tuxedo.org's terminfo - no destructive backspace for WYSE50 or WYSE150 ? On Fri, 17 May 2002, Darrin Filer wrote: > Ok, getting closer. Thanks for the assistance. > > I've used the setup screen on the WYSE150 to remap the left arrow key to > control-B. Pressing the left arrow key now produces ^B on the screen. This can > be deleted as a single character by pressing the backspace key. Obviously the > desired behavior is moving the cursor one character to the left. > > I assumed this behavior could be set in terminfo with the following syntax: > kcub1=^B, > or (what's the diffence between these anyway) > cub1=^B, man 5 terminfo key_backspace kbs kb backspace key key_left kcub1 kl left-arrow key cursor_left cub1 le move left one space The ones that begin with 'k' are for the sequences sent by keys. The ones without are sent by the application to move the cursor round the screen, don't change these. Make sure your compiled terminfo is actually used by your application (eg: get rid of the standard one in /usr/share/terminfo/w while testing) Note, command line utilities (cat!) don't normally use terminfo however any that have been linked with the readline utility (eg: bash) will if /etc/inputrc or ~/.inputrc have been setup (man readline). If you're using readline (bash) you may want to setup the keys in 'emacs' mode 'cause readline doesn't always obey terminfo properly: In terminfo kcub1=^B, kcuf1=^F, kcuu1=^P, kcud1=^N, and in bash set -o emacs or in inputrc set editing-mode emacs > However, hitting a control-B or the left arrow, which produces this sequence, > only puts ^B on the screen. The terminfo settings were verified after running > tic by looking at the output of infocmp and they were in fact set. Next I tried > typing: stty erase ^B to see what would happen. Yet control-B still only > displays ^B. This is what you get it you are using bash in 'vi' mode, bash thinks it knows best, other programs know better. -- Rob. (Robert de Bath )